Army Promotion Command List Integration: Good or bad?

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 00:34:59 -0500

As a Commander/1SG, why would you circle yes for a Soldier to be integrated onto the CLI? If you believe the Soldier is ready to be promoted to SGT/SSG why not just send them to the promotion board?

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Jan 10 at 2014 12:38 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 00:38:15 -0500

I thought the exact same thing.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2014 10:46 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 22:46:31 -0500

I agree using the CLI or automatic integration list is a good sign of a poor leader. If I send 1 Soldier to the promotion board they will all go. Nobody gets a free ride in my unit.<div><br></div><div>I remember the first time I had to do a monthly report as a young SFC and my 1SG sat down and said "You only circle yes if you don't want to do your job as a leader". I laughed but as I thought about it I agreed with him. How many NCOs do we have walking around now because someone circled yes and they won the lottery?</div>

Response by CSM Mike Maynard made Jan 17 at 2014 6:54 AM

CSM Mike Maynard — Fri, 17 Jan 2014 06:54:02 -0500

Hard to imagine a good reason to do this.<div><br></div><div>If we have those that become eligible for integration, we send them to the board.</div><div><br></div><div>Additionally, for those that were integrated without a board, we aggressively encourage them to attend a board to become truly competitive.</div>

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 9:32 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:32:21 -0500

I believe that if a Soldier is getting close to his RCP as a SPC or SGT he needs to rethink his time in the Army. I firmly believe that if you want to earn the next rank that its all on you not your chain of command and it shouldn't come down to his 1SG putting him on the CLI list in order to allow him the time to develop.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 10:38 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 10:38:24 -0500

<p>I would not simply circle yes.  When I was a 1SG and now as the CSM I coach my 1SGs on how to beat the CLI...counsel, counsel, counsel, Bar to Re-enlist due to failure to advance with peers.  After that make sure you board the Soldiers you believe are the future leaders of the Army.  They cannot promote off the CLI if there is a board recommended standing list.  </p><p>I further helped my 1SGs out by putting a MFR out on standards for an NCO.  With this they dont have to counsel saying "not ready for leadership" as it is vague and can open them up to complaints. I give my NCOs and future NCOs 11 things they must do in order to meet my standards.  All the Soldier has to do is not meet one of those standards and now you have a tangible reason on why they should not be placed on the CLI.  </p>

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 3:52 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 15:52:51 -0500

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the CLI is a lot more about circling No and substantiating it rather than circling Yes. It is not for Soldiers whom the command believes to be ready to serve at the next higher grade but for Soldiers for whom the command can simply not solidly justify a bar to reenlistment/separation action.

The entire point of CLI is to take people who meet the bare-minimum standard for promotion and add them to the selection pool for "when we run out of qualified people who want to get promoted and go through the regular channels" so as to keep the slots filled with people we can expect to do the bare minimum that is necessary rather than having the slots open.

Honestly, all it does is keep the unit level command accountable by forcing bars to reenlistment on those who shouldn't get promoted and prevent satisfactory performers from being separated from the Army for not meeting some "more stringent than Army regulation" standard that some local commands may have.

If an MOS is at the point at which people get picked up on CLI more than once every few years, then that MOS has some real problems in regards to retaining quality individuals. Mine is facing that problem right now. Eight years TIS, the rank of Sergeant, and the absence of substantiating evidence for adverse action guarantees the paygrade of E-6. This is pretty frightening to me.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2014 9:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2014 21:40:05 -0500

1SG I agree with your reasoning on CLI. To me CLI doesn't serve much purpose besides motivating deserving future NCOs.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2014 8:12 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:12:04 -0500

When the program was first instituted my 1SG and CDR set down all the leaders and discussed the CLI with them. Their prospective was and is right on target. The CLI is there to make sure a deserving Soldier is not over looked but, if as a leader you are properly counseling your Soldier's and setting EXACT goals that the Soliders need to meet to be promoted then the CLI will never come into play. It is the leaders responsibility to prepare the young Soldier for advancement. Each Soldier should be given a chance to become a leader; if the leaders are doing their job properly, the Soldiers who do not posses the proper qualities will be weeded out.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 19 at 2014 8:28 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:28:58 -0500

I suppose the "devils advocate" approach would be circling yes for an outstanding Soldier who just doesn't board well? Or has sudden onset turrets which causes them to spew obscenities during the board?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2014 8:32 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jan 2014 20:32:35 -0500

<p>SSG Tinsley, </p><p> </p><p>To put it lightly, I'm with you. Although there are some "good ones" that come from it, the ability to breathe, eat, sleep, and show up on time DOES NOT justify a Soldier becoming an NCO. To me that's what CLI is all about, be at the right place, at the right time, in the right uniform, and suddenly you're SME, and have the ability to lead Soldiers! I think not.</p>

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Jan 25 at 2014 9:01 PM

SPC Christopher Smith — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 21:01:42 -0500

SSG,<div>What does a board do to "create" a good leader in the military? Nothing, it is a dog and pony show, in which you spit out somewhat useless information. And even if you don't give the right answers you have a shot at getting promoted. So, CLI promotions for me is a great thing, because it is a pat on the back that you didn't get in trouble and you were able to get to the next level without the hassle of everything above.</div>

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2014 10:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jan 2014 22:14:06 -0500

Out of the responses so far, there seems to be one element that is missing. These types of promotions can be prevented if the leadership deems Soldier to not be ready or fit for promotion. Having a proper counseling packet ensures that you as a leader have the ammunition to back up your belief, and present your case to the chain of command. All that is required after you brief the chain, is the commander has to disallow the promotion. This is one reason that it is vital to stay on top of the eligibility lists that come out each month, as the command only has a limited amount of time to act in order to prevent someone from being promoted who is on the automatic promotion list.

Response by LTC David B. made Mar 20 at 2014 11:48 PM

LTC David B. — Thu, 20 Mar 2014 23:48:43 -0400

Wow.....that's about all I can say to some of these comments. But as to the topic.....

Don't we need to consider the spirit and intent of the CLI? There were a LOT of Soldiers missing promotions NOT due to anything they controlled. Mostly due to the units' OPTEMPO. Units were not conducting boards in theater, of course there were other requirements that weren't being conducted either. Essentially, we were screwing Soldiers out of earned and deserved promotions. It would be easy to say leadership failure, and maybe (probably) that was the case in some instances, but sometimes units were barely meeting their combat mission requirements. I'm sure the CSMs/SGMs will pounce if I'm wrong.....it can be pretty labor intensive to PROPERLY conduct promotion boards. Sure you can "hey you" to fill the seats, but I'd think that's beyond the last resort.

The bottom line is this wasn't something that was supposed to be a "norm" because if it is, then that truly is a leadership failure from the O5 on down. Even the "stud" who was forgotten......board him! He'll be ready. Deployed....dispersed......high OPTEMPO......utilize the CLI, and once you're in friendly territory and can catch your breath, get the boards running! IF COUNSELINGS are current and accurate, we won't include those should be looking for civilian employment.

But I can tell you.....across the board......failure to properly conduct counseling is the number 1 problem in getting the deserving people and not EVERYONE promoted. CSMs.....SGMs.....attack!! :-)

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2014 7:34 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 07:34:11 -0400

I've only seen 2 people get promoted from CLI and let me tell you it wasn't good. One

sergeant went to WLC failed out and continued to be a bad soldier. Didn't even have a car and always bummed cigerettes and was bad with money...yet they still pinned him. Few months down the road he was chaptered out as a PFC. The other sergeant was borderline insane and was always talking about chemtrails and illuminati and was embarasing to be around. But he ETSd a few months later. If it was up to me I would only promote those that want it, not just hand it out because you don't want to see someone RCP.

Response by SGT Nathan Huff made Mar 22 at 2014 4:09 PM

SGT Nathan Huff — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 16:09:45 -0400

Said soldier should of been sent to the board a long time ago. if the CLI kicks in then some one made a mistake, either the soldier or his/her leadership.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2014 12:33 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Mar 2014 00:33:30 -0400

From the NCO's I've seen come out of CLI, I don't think it's a good idea. All of the Staff Sergeants and Sergeants I've seen come out of CLI have no leadership skills what so ever and have no intentions of getting right in order to set the example. A NCO in my unit now that got promoted through CLI at his last unit is currently facing the reduction board and another one will not for anything buy ASUs or complete SSD-1 as he has not been to WLC yet but been a SGT since 2012. In my opinion, I don't really think it's earned as they did not have to appear at a board like the rest of the qualified NCOs that earned their rank. However this is just my two sense!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2014 2:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 31 Mar 2014 14:41:47 -0400

SSG Tinsley

Here is my take on the CLI based on personal experience

1) the CLI does not guarantee a promotion, CLI is command list integration, in simpler terms, is the promotion standing list everyone gets placed after either going to a promo board or getting added to the promotion list, you still have to make the points in order to get promoted, just like anyone else

2) I had a break in service, when I came back in, I reclassed to MI, which requires a TS clearance; because I had some credit issues my clearance took a while to get granted; at the time of my ETS I already served 6 years, got out as a promotable Sergeant, came back in as a Sergeant. All the time that I was waiting for the clearance I was actually working, I earned an AAM and an ARCOM from the unit at Huachuca for the 6 months I spent working there, then I moved to Knox in my old MOS until I got my clearance. Since I was in a limbo with no MOS I could not go to a promotion board. When I finally got my clearance, I had more than enough time to get put in the CLI and since my MOS is a star MOS, I got promoted with the minimum score.

My point with this is that I did not sit around not wanting to get promoted, I wanted to get promoted, but the issues with the clearance did not allow me to do so, I always considered myself a go getter, by that time I already attended more than 1 board, so I was not scared to go into one, I was not overweight, failing APFT's, I did not have a million excuses about why I was not getting promoted, I kept doing my best until my turn came, if it wasn't for the CLI, I know I would have gone to the promo board again and would have got recommended.

The CLI is a tool just like any other that the commanders can use in the right situation, I'll give you an example: Here in DLI the Soldiers in my company come for 18 months of training, let's say a Soldiers comes in as a SPC, already with enough time for promotion, but this Soldier is focusing in his school, and also serving as a squad leader or assistant, helping me conduct PRT for the Platoon, I as a leader would recommend this Soldier for the CLI, because I can care less about he or she memorizing some questions and regurgitating them for the board members, I rather see a Soldier act as an NCO, and if the points in the MOS are that low, the Soldier will get promoted, if the Soldier needs more points, he or she will attend the next promo board

I don't think that all the Soldiers that get placed on the CLI are dirtbags, just like not all the Soldiers that actually attend and pass a promo board are deserving of the chance of becoming an NCO

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2015 5:33 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:33:42 -0400

Commander's Integration List (CIL) is a very bad idea; even the promotion board in general. Soldiers have been getting promoted with just the very minimum requirement because the Commander and/or 1SG is not monitoring the listing while AGR and Active service member are not being promoted due to low PT scores and not being able to recite the NCO creed- I'm upset about it. I have five yeas experience as a police officer, combat experience, active service experience and now AGR with over 400 points on promotion checklist but you tell me I'm not ready to be promoted because of a freaking NCO Creed and/or low PT score. Most that knows it don't follow it and those that don't know it work their freaking butt off without getting recognize with promotion only saying how good of a Soldier you are etc etc. PISSED

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 10:20 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 10:20:44 -0400

I have a question regarding this list. I was told I was put on the Integration list and now I see that I have a P with 39 points on my ERB. Does this mean I have "Promotable status" and do I stop receiving non-promo counselings?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2017 3:17 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 15:17:52 -0500

I'm a specialist, prior service Marine (6 years; 4 active, 2 reserves, left as a cpl); I transferred over 3 years ago and I'm a year out from rcp, I've been to 11 Soldier of the Month boards and after two years of dealing with toxic leaders and optempo I've finally managed to get into BLC (I'm actually typing this up in the classroom). I've tried to get my leadership to send me to a promotion board, each time they insist on sotm boards. Then, they mentioned that I'm on the ICL and quit sending me based on that. So after I finish BLC, what happens?

I'm starting to grow annoyed; I love the military, the army's been quite good to my family and I, but I've been stressing over this...and it's starting to effect my performance.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 12:17 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 00:17:08 -0400

SGM, COuld I get your list of 11 points you expect of your NCOs. Thanks
[login to see]

Response by CPL Jonathan Roberts made Jan 2 at 2018 11:53 PM

CPL Jonathan Roberts — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 23:53:42 -0500

When I got to my unit as anE4 spc . I was asked to become the training NCO , and the unit armour. I was sitting around 550-580 points , without the promotion board.and I was on this interg promotion list. Which last I heard was a list for the commander that listed his troops in the unit for the potential of promotion, E4 to E5 and E5 to E6.. that has at least 350 points or more.and should be on the next board appearance

Response by CPL Jonathan Roberts made Jan 2 at 2018 11:56 PM

CPL Jonathan Roberts — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 23:56:36 -0500

Free rides???? What .ok I got into a little of trouble and my commander had to take me off the list.

Response by CPL Jonathan Roberts made Jan 2 at 2018 11:58 PM

CPL Jonathan Roberts — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 23:58:11 -0500

Needless to say I never made my 5 . I wound up Med boarding out.

Response by CPL Jonathan Roberts made Jan 3 at 2018 12:04 AM

CPL Jonathan Roberts — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 00:04:03 -0500

I wasn't the only one that was on the list myself and another specialist that came out of the reserves I was active duty at that time for years. We both got counseling statements not only that but then we were also told that we had to make our E5 in a certain amount of time within our MOS,(88m) or ETS or choose another MOS ( transition to another MOS) the other specialist made his E5 and I med board out. Threw my back out the last deployment to Iraq

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 5 at 2018 1:41 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 05 Feb 2018 01:41:51 -0500

Put bluntly, A "YES" on the CLI just means "sure, promote him or her if there is no one else to promote or if there is a national emergency". If someone is so bad that you would circle NO, then why aren't they being barred or chaptered?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2018 3:20 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:20:45 -0500

I’ll give you a personal example since I’m looking at CLI this month. I made E-5 in December 2014 and attended ALC in June 2015. I was requesting to go to the board and preparing months ahead of eligibility. At the same time, I was waiting to go to the Civil Affairs Qualification Course. My command refused to send me to a board with the reason being my reclass. Tried to resolve it with IG but my CA Course had started and it was too late to attend the board before my class date. After attending SOCM and part of the Q I left the course to attend college and go back to engineering. When you leave the course you’re transferred to a holding company while you await orders. All in all, you can face 2-3 years with unrated time and no chance to attend a board. The CLI is the only way to get promoted in that situation.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2018 3:00 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 May 2018 03:00:28 -0400

So im a SPC in the army and my mos is (11B). Lets look at it at my point of view. You have NCO's going to the board passing by just saying the creed or barely knowing there information. You have NCO's in your company who are hot garbage at there job and lazy. BUT you still passed them at the board, BUT there still a SGT leading the younger soldiers down a terrible path. I understand there are great NCO's in the army but lets be real a lot of them are not worthy to be apart of the CORE OF NON COMMISSION OFFICERS.

Now I went to BLC before going to the board then after BLC did not attend the promotion board, I received orders to be a SGT... BUT like most of the people on this page my 1SGT denied it making some BS excuse, and then all my counseling that they wanted me to sign saying I'm not good enough to be a SGT made me laugh because every non-promo they made dumb excuses why they didn't want me to get it.

Im a E-4 with almost 6 years in and I work harder then 90% of the NCO's in my company I've been a Team Leader most of my career and Squad Leader for some as well. I always take care of my soldiers, I constantly train my soldiers to my standard which is way above everyone else's... Im great at counseling and i am extremely confident. I know my creeds as well. BUT since I don't go to the board my leadership sees me as a piece of shit... Makes me laugh.

So do you want a NCO who is trash who passed the board with just saying the creed or do you want to circle yes on that CLI on some of your soldiers you probably don't pay attention to and watch them outshine all your current NCO's.

I just wrote this because I was looking for information on CLI and I found this page and was just amazed about how most higher leadership thinks, and I just wanted y'all to have someone on the other side explain it from the perspective.