Army Warrant Officers, how would you feel if the Warrant Officer Career College removed class signs and class songs from the WOCS course?

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 06:05:16 -0400

Rumor going around the Army Warrant Officer Cohort that WOCS class 16-18 and 16-19 might be the last classes ever to construct a class sign and prepare a class song for hanging their hat. Are these washed out traditions that need to be done away with? Or does this take away from the time honored tradition of becoming a U.S. Army Warrant Officer?

Response by SFC Richard Giles made Jul 31 at 2016 8:42 AM

SFC Richard Giles — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 08:42:08 -0400

If it's been a tradition and it isn't broke don't mess with it. Way too many people in the military want to mess with tradition. Just my 2 cents.

Response by CW3(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2016 9:00 AM

CW3(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 09:00:19 -0400

I personally dont think they should. I think its a important part if the course. It teaches people to work together and to interact. It also brings some critical thinking and problem solving skills to the game some of us lacked. But most importantly it brings a sense of accomplishment and pride. You can kook at that sign and say.....I HELPED MAKE THAT.

Response by CPO Gregory Smith made Jul 31 at 2016 9:21 AM

CPO Gregory Smith — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 09:21:33 -0400

We do similar tasks as part of our Navy Chief initiation process. At the moment it seems like a waste of time but looking back, it helped develop team building skills and the ability to work through problems in a large group. As well as doing so while under a large amount of stress from other required tasking. All skills that are required of a leader. Sure it's tradition , but don't underestimate the training value.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2016 12:17 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 12:17:05 -0400

I don't like the idea of taking this particular tradition away. The environment at WOCS is meant to be high stress through time management for a reason. Class songs provide candidates a team building opportunity designed to promote communication and coordination with each other in a candidate driven task. Keep the songs, they lighten the mood encourage a little fun while in the WOCS environment.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Aug 1 at 2016 4:58 PM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Mon, 01 Aug 2016 16:58:29 -0400

I thought it was a lot of fun and is a great tradition - leave it alone. Of course, I'm sure "somebody" will be offended by it and that will be the downfall.

Response by CW3 Susan Burkholder made Aug 2 at 2016 10:13 AM

CW3 Susan Burkholder — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 10:13:51 -0400

Doesn't bother me at all. My experience with the sign making: about 4 classmates worked on the sign independently of us. Somewhere else. I didn't even see the sign or know what it's design until it was unveiled at presentation. How does that build camaraderie/teamwork? My experience with the song: One person volunteered to write it; we all gladly agreed and checked that off our time crunched list of things to do. How does that build camaraderie/teamwork?
I think many people are "miss-remembering" the "camaraderie" they experienced as a result of the "time honored traditions." I think they are experiencing "euphoric recall"
One of the most uplifting experiences I remember in WOC school was finishing the 5 mile run - when the ENTIRE WOC school lined up and we ran through them while they high fived us. When we had WOC Olympics - it was such a well timed and perhaps purposeful mental break from all the stress experienced just before it. I don't even remember what our sign was or what it looked like. I don't remember our class song and could not tell you what it was.

Response by CW3 Dorbin Abendano made Aug 2 at 2016 11:05 AM

CW3 Dorbin Abendano — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 11:05:22 -0400

It has been a part of our tradition as Warrant Officers. It enriches the value of being part a timed honor Corps. Keep it .

Response by CW5 Jack Gaudet made Aug 2 at 2016 1:02 PM

CW5 Jack Gaudet — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 13:02:33 -0400

Time honored tradition, team building, camaraderie. What ever you call it, it was a moment to get away from the stress of the course. It is meant to be a stressful course for a reason. Over time, there have been changes to get away from the traditional aspects of the course because someone thought they were a waste of time or that other courses (NCOES, OCS) did not do these things. They quit or they whined to their congressional delegates that the cost and the things they were doing did not serve a purpose. It has been a while but the last time I was there during the Senior Staff Course, we visited the barracks and was told that there was not more daily open wall locker inspections. No more sock and T-shirt rolling, which may have been considered dumb but there was a purpose, Task, Condition, Standard to include Time Management. WOCs were spending more time in the field for tactical training, some one wanted the Warrant to be the complete officer. We are not Commissioned Officers nor are we Non Commissioned Officers. WE have a specific role and that lane is where we should be. If you want to be one of the others go there and leave the WOCS as a stress building course and leave the parts of it as it is. Ranting aside, as someone else put it. "If it isn't broke, leave it alone".

Response by CW3 Matt Hutchason made Aug 2 at 2016 1:26 PM

CW3 Matt Hutchason — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 13:26:19 -0400

The Red Rams of class 98-20, to the tune of "Y.M.C.A": "Please sir, may we take down that hat? And get dessert, so we all can get fat...... It's fun to stay at the W.O.C.S......." Those were the days.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Aug 2 at 2016 1:39 PM

CW4 Angel C. — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 13:39:51 -0400

I feel it was dog and pony even though it was something to show for your class. I'm sure there are better ways to show teamwork and class pride.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 2:09 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 14:09:07 -0400

While I agree with Ms. Burkholder that it was only a few candidates working on the sign independently, I think that it and the song add a layer of stress that helps prepare us for the juggling of multiple tasks that come with being an officer. I don't know if this is true for all classes, but I don't keep up with anyone in my class and sure as heck can't remember anything but the first verse of the song. But I wear my shirt all the time, and it brings back memories both good and bad about my time at WOCS.

Response by CW3 Kim B. made Aug 2 at 2016 3:07 PM

CW3 Kim B. — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 15:07:12 -0400

Keep the song, signs and class name. It took some time but it was really about teamwork! Plus it was a much needed stress breaker!

Response by CW3 Susan Burkholder made Aug 2 at 2016 3:35 PM

CW3 Susan Burkholder — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 15:35:29 -0400

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2016 8:41 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 20:41:58 -0400

Being and Old CWO I went before the Board back in 1981 and took my oath in 1982. The went to Ft. Rucker to attend knife fork and spoon school and then to my first assignment as a 411A Ammunition Tech with the All American 82nd Airborne Division. Back then it was years and experience that got you selected by a board of your peers. Then the went to what the US Army has now and if that's what the system wants then that's must support. The US Army is a team and there is no "I" in Team. I personally did not not like the change to an OCS style of WOCS because I felt that the old way lost the years of experience that the new warrants would bring to the field they were going into. The exception was aviation that was a field that was something different. Vietnam proved that. We lost so many great young warrants in that war and need for many replacements required a flight school just like OCS to crank out these great warrants. But the bottom line is what ever DA wants and thinks is best for the US Army is what will be. My Thanks and respect to all of you for your service to this great nation, and God Bless all of you and America.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jul 21 at 2022 2:23 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Thu, 21 Jul 2022 14:23:11 -0400

While it was fun, I can see the time being spent on better things.