As a Leader. Would you send your team on a mission without proper tools or equipment?

SGT John " Mac " McConnell — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 21:09:36 -0500

This came to light to me today when a new installer did not have the tools to do his job. No ladders, 14 volt charger for a 18 volt drill, and the list goes on. Kinda upset me that he has been working 5 days in the field with this problem. I stayed and helped him finish. " which is not my job ! " I alerted my chain of command... I know this is a mis- mgmt issue. To me there is no excuse for this!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 17 at 2016 9:34 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 21:34:09 -0500

I think this falls under the "setting someone up for failure" category, which to me is a "party foul."

"If" the leader is aware that his subordinate is not adequately equipped for the task, this is a bad deal. However... and I pause for effect.. we often take a "Message to Garcia" approach to many tasks. Many of us, will not ask for additional "support" even if we need it.

That is something we have to learn, often as a hard object lesson through failure. Learning to ask for help (et al) is probably one of the biggest obstacles a young troop can have. That said, sometimes leadership creates the impression that "help" is not forthcoming, which as you said is a mismanagement issue.

Response by SPC Matthew Birkinbine made Feb 17 at 2016 9:36 PM

SPC Matthew Birkinbine — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 21:36:01 -0500

I couldn't send my team out without the proper tools. That's why when I didn't have the resources to do my job in our shop, I'd recommend to my Senior Mech that we needed to evac it due to lack of resources.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Feb 17 at 2016 9:39 PM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 21:39:56 -0500

No, I would never.

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Feb 17 at 2016 9:58 PM

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 21:58:58 -0500

I like to send people out to do a mission critical job with only half of their tools. Helps them learn to improvise and think outside the box. Don't have a ladder? Maneuver the truck closer. Critical thinking skills!

**In case anyone was wondering, yes, that was all sarcasm.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2016 10:44 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 22:44:12 -0500

If you're doing pccs and pcis, this won't be an issue.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 17 at 2016 11:52 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:52:55 -0500

In my unit during the QAQC inspection you have to show that you have the proper BII so how was this even dispatched (which is signed by the commander) without prior knowledge of the deficiencies?

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 12:07 AM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 00:07:20 -0500

I remember when I first arrived at Malmstrom the new missile mechanics where assigned truck detail. When you arrived you received a list of operations that where going to happen that day and you had to have a truck ready for each job. If the truck arrived on site without something it was a major ass problem as an ICBM will be off line longer than scheduled. You did not want to be that Airman. If you did not do detail, you did not last.

Response by SGT Eliyahu Rooff made Feb 18 at 2016 8:33 AM

SGT Eliyahu Rooff — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 08:33:49 -0500

This is the sort of thing that contributes to low morale and low retention rates. After nine years active duty, injuries from Vietnam kept me from being able to re-up, but I was able to qualify for the Guard. I joined under the old "try one" single-year enlistment program for prior service personnel. For the first eight months, I was issued absolutely nothing, yet was expected to do my job as a medic in an armor battalion. This meant I used my old jungle fatigues while the rest of the unit had woodland camouflage BDUs, and I purchased enough medical supplies to take care of the men while we were out in the field for training.

I discovered how pervasive this "do it yourself" philosophy was throughout the unit when we were on two weeks of AT, getting ready for a training exercise. I was making my rounds to check on the men early in the morning when it because apparent that since I had cross-trained years before as a 45B (small arms repair; I'm not sure what the MOS is now), I was the only one in the unit who knew how to install the blank adapters in the M2 HB machine guns on the cupola mounts for the M60 tanks. There was a unit armorer, but he still hadn't been sent to school after six months in the unit.

I finally got some assistance when the Brigade CSM visited us out there in the field and asked me why I was dressed as if I'd just gotten back from in-country. By that afternoon, I had a full issue of clothing and a proper aid bag full of medical supplies. Nevertheless, by the end of the one-year enlistment, I decided that one year was plenty and got out. It was too much like the tour I'd spent in Korea in 67-68, when all the good equipment was going to Vietnam and we got the leftovers. If you want to retain people and have them work effectively, you need to give them the tools to do their job.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 9:54 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 09:54:51 -0500

Seems to me that a little PMCS and mission analysis by the operators would have solved this problem before it got this far. A pre-execution inspection by their leaders would have caught all or part of this as well.
Troop Leading Procedures. Know them, live them.

If I am on the execution end, I would not let a lack of equipment stop me. There are plenty of ways to acquire things on a military post. Sitting around and waiting for someone to solve their problems for them is wrong too.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 10:10 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 10:10:21 -0500

The easy answer would be to say no I wouldn't send them. But unfortunately a lot of the time we are given missions that need to be accomplished regardless if we are lacking the resources to do so. I would have to assess the situation and see if I would be able to complete the mission with what I was given. If the answer was yes then I would send my Soldiers out to do the job with guidance on how to adapt and get it done. But if I don't think I could honestly get the job done myself then no I wouldn't waste their time going on a dead end mission.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Feb 18 at 2016 10:18 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 10:18:34 -0500

There has to be an element of personal responsibility to a situation like this. We don't know if the installer noticed he did not have the tools, whether he mentioned it to his supervisor or just how high up the situation went etc. Hard to imagine how long a civilian plumber or AC repairman would last on the job if he went out without proper tools to get the job done. Can't see too many instances where an owner or supervisors would have let him leave the shop. Which is worse, a trooper leaving the shop without the proper tools, without telling someone or was ignored by his supervisor(s) when he did raise the flag. Thanks for your initiative in getting this situation addressed by helping the troop and alerting yr COC.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 11:40 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:40:13 -0500

I say I wouldn't as a leader, but I can't tell you how often I've had to find a way to make something work with what I've had, when the proper support (whether it be a specific tool, or something less tangible, like air support, or security) was unavailable or unwilling. Thing is, in my MOS, this is a common thing, and we train our Soldiers to not expect help, and how to get the job done with as base materials as we can find. EOD has all kinds of tools and procedures, but we also make sure our techs know how to get it done with a rope and a wrench, or the proper application of explosives in small amounts.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 1:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 13:24:02 -0500

Hell no. There's always a way. You have to have the proper tools, otherwise you run the risk of doing something stupid and unsafe. Composite Risk Management.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 2:26 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 14:26:27 -0500

No excuse at all.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made Feb 18 at 2016 2:35 PM

PFC Tuan Trang — Thu, 18 Feb 2016 14:35:41 -0500

It either my team is fully equipped for the mission or i find another way to provided them with something aleast, i would not send anyone without a equipment nor i would abandon my mission.

Response by TSgt Melissa Post made Feb 19 at 2016 1:28 AM

TSgt Melissa Post — Fri, 19 Feb 2016 01:28:10 -0500

would you send your troops to battle without ammo? I'd hope not. However, did this individual not attempt to gather his equipment prior to leaving? Did he not question how they were to accomplish their mission without the necessary equipment? As a maintainer, I know there are times when I have had to go back or send another airman back to get another tool but we never left without what tools we knew we needed. Seems a little sketch on both ends of the equation to me.