As a veteran do you prefer to be a "quiet professional" or "outspoken patriot"?

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:01:53 -0500

I have come to learn, from many men and women better than I, that there is cause to be both. As society ebbs and flows around us it takes maturity to navigate which situation calls for what. Lately, I have had many tell me not to be so reluctant in public to speak out, that the "quiet professional" is sometimes damaging as it leaves the very important voice of veterans absent in the conversation.

Personaly, I prefer to try and exercise the former more than the latter, given that in the civilian sector I believe humility should precede anything I say about the military. However, I'm also very aggressive and candid. So I'm probably perceived more often as the outspoken patriot, especially given my sense of humor. Around the office one day, people divvied up the staff for fun to see who would win in a war against each other. They deemed that the decisive element was me. They told me it was because "You're always talking about violence and destroying things. You're probably the only one that actually knows warfare." Hooray! I'm making a difference!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2024 10:05 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:05:05 -0500

Typically, I am quiet about my military experience in the manner that I do not loudly advertise it. Yea, I wear the occasional cover that depicts Army Veteran (or something along those lines). I'll wear unit shirts out in public. But that's about it. Now, if someone comes and askes me about my service, I don't shy away from telling folks about my experience, as POG as my experience may be.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jan 10 at 2024 10:13 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:13:57 -0500

For me it's all about time and place. I consider myself a patriot and am very proud of my service. But with that said sometimes the time and place isn't appropriate for flag waving and you just need to sit on it and chill out. Some people try way to hard trying to be what I call a Professional Veteran when half the time they were that terminal Lance that hated every day they were in and were a hassle to work with.

Response by COL Randall C. made Jan 10 at 2024 11:02 AM

COL Randall C. — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:02:34 -0500

What, no option for "Verbose Commentator"?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2024 11:54 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:54:21 -0500

I fall in the category of all those outspoken Generals who rip on the civilian chain of command. When you do a little research on them "Ret." is always followed after their rank. I'm not there yet of course so I have my limits.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 10 at 2024 12:29 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 12:29:23 -0500

I will speak up if it is warranted. Case in point is the absolutely stupid VA math used to establish a veterans disability rating. I pick and choose my battles.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jan 10 at 2024 1:25 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:25:00 -0500

Do not blow your own horn, but if it wrong, by all means speak-out!

Response by CPL LaForest Gray made Jan 10 at 2024 8:11 PM

CPL LaForest Gray — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 20:11:07 -0500

Quite. Keep to myself. Trust issues.

I’m vocal about FACTS in a respectful manner. (99% people aren’t as rude in person as they appear on line).

A stranger thanks me for my service I politely respond and try to gain distance if possible.

With veterans it’s a difference between us, we have an understanding …. The simplest just being, that we ALL went through a military basic training regardless of career path afterwards. We share that common experience of taking the oath to uphold the constitution of our Federal Constitutional Republic.

So during VA meetings I’m a bit more open.

Not sure if my response really fits this.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2024 10:36 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jan 2024 22:36:22 -0500

"Around the office one day, people divvied up the staff for fun to see who would win in a war against each other. They deemed that the decisive element was me. They told me it was because "You're always talking about violence and destroying things. You're probably the only one that actually knows warfare." Hooray! I'm making a difference!"

What a tedious bore.

There are those who talk the talk. That is you based on your own statements.

Then there are those few who have walked that path and they don't turn it into office gossip.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Jan 11 at 2024 10:18 AM

CSM William Everroad — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:18:14 -0500

1LT Private RallyPoint Member, I will have to agree with SSgt Christophe Murphy I prefer the quiet professional. There is a time and place to leverage any experience as relevant (including military). My service does not mean myself, nor my opinion on most matters, are more important than any other citizen. To your point, sure in relevant discourse, veteran and service member input is valuable, but in run of the mill stuff, the distinction of veteran is irrelevant. Just out of curiosity, in your view, what subjects is veteran specific input being left out of the conversation?

I do not like putting people into buckets, and I don't like it done to me. There is tons of connotation that surrounds being a veteran and it includes those perceptions formed from the behavior of people other than myself. I would rather not be stereotyped. My service is a component of, but not my whole identity.

"Outspoken Patriots" tend to belong to the same crowd as the "Thank me for my service" proponents and, from what I have seen, they don't bring good credit upon themselves or the military with what they say or do. You can be a patriot without qualifying that you are a veteran and a patriot.

I think there is a difference between those who share their experience in the military as any would share past employment experiences in a reasonable manner, those that simply wear military related identifiers, and those who start a conversation with, "I am a veteran" to establish relevancy or authority. "Outspoken Patriot" doesn't quite establish that difference.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 12 at 2024 12:58 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 12:58:05 -0500

Sometimes if we have value to add to the military or VA community, then it is incumbent upon us to show initiative to be of service to others. Case in point is I have successfully coached people with PTSD. I do this on my own time and dime. I am obligated to do this because of what I know. I would be remiss by doing nothing.

Response by CPL T.A. Nelson made Jan 15 at 2024 8:29 PM

CPL T.A. Nelson — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 20:29:06 -0500

Depends on the situation...

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2024 8:50 PM

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jan 2024 20:50:55 -0500

I am definitely more the former than the latter. I always stand up for Soldiers if I hear nonsense. But when I identify as a veteran because of the conversation, I find it can either be a distraction (Ooh! A unicorn!) or like I didn't actually say words (chirp...chirp...chirp).

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2024 8:56 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jan 2024 20:56:13 -0500

I believe in life, room for both exists. It depends on the situation

Response by Col Kevin Darnell made Jan 18 at 2024 2:13 PM

Col Kevin Darnell — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 14:13:26 -0500

In today’s charged political environment I suppose I’ve become suspicious of why certain words are used. “Patriot,” for example, is a word being used by people who have completely opposite conceptions of the behaviors that word sanctions. A lot haven’t served and some of those that have aren’t on the page with me. I’m from an era where politics was rarely talked about among anyone in uniform, on or off base. The expected attitude was to be apolitical. That started to change in the early 1990s. In hindsight, I think the sudden collapse of the Soviet Union, our clear and most threatening enemy, might have removed a unifying force. Things seemed pretty stable in the 80s through the Gulf War. But a bit like the Vietnam years, the long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan generated more political consciousness in the services. Before my time, but the late 70s were not a good time especially in the Army as things transitioned to a volunteer force. The fundamental culture of the military went into self-reflection and people were writing a lot about civil-military relations. So, I was steeped in the idea that we don’t swear an oath to an office or a person, but to the ideals and functions laid out in the Constitution. We defend the country, not a politician or political party. Is it still like that?

In any case, in my interactions with civilians I’m happy to talk about military service in a recruiter role. That’s what young people I run into are interested in. Met a young gal working at Five Guys who was going in in a few weeks and I guess I had a hat on and she asked, so we had a pleasant chat. Very few civilian adults who become aware I’m retired ask about my service and I think maybe it’s because they make assumptions about what I think about things. (They’d probably be wrong.)

I expect your friends were joking about the violence and destruction part. Sure, that’s what the military does, it’s what we train and equip to do, but very few of us really kill people. Even in the Army and Marines. (As I facetiously say, soldiers and Marines are the real precision-guided weapons and kill one or a couple dozen at a time; the Navy and Air Force kill hundreds, thousands, and can even erase millions at a time. As an AF navigator, I thought it odd that we called our weapons “precision.”) The killing is a means to an end. I worry when people are cavalier about it. Not always true, but those who joke about it typically haven’t done it and/or haven’t seen their friends hurt and/or haven’t sent people out to do it.

I used to teach and I recommend a book by a Prussian general, Clausewitz, called “On War.” He fought Napoleon. He has a lot to say about the place where the military and politics intersect. It can be a tough read, it’s translated from German, but there are good summaries online.

I can’t remember ever sharing “war stories” with any civilians. And I’m not hanging out at the VFW or other places I’d be around a lot of vets. I did chat with a Vietnam vet Marine at a bar in town a few weeks ago. Henry. Nice guy. But I’ve got it easy. My wife is also a retiree, so if I ever feel the urge I can tell her how great I was.

Circling back to the beginning then, I guess I need to know how you define Patriot. But to answer the question of being vocal or silent, it depends on a lot of things.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jan 18 at 2024 5:58 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 17:58:07 -0500

There is call for both personas.

Response by SSG Rick Miller made Jan 18 at 2024 10:26 PM

SSG Rick Miller — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 22:26:35 -0500

I like to think of myself as the former the majority of the time, but have become the latter on occasion. I will answer a direct question about my time in uniform, but only tell them the funny stuff. It's too hard to explain the bad things. The most I've ever said was the following: "We have seen and done things that no rational human being should ever see or do."

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2024 1:04 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Jan 2024 13:04:01 -0500

Outspoken!

Response by PO3 Michael MacKay made Jan 21 at 2024 8:31 AM

PO3 Michael MacKay — Sun, 21 Jan 2024 08:31:15 -0500

Absolutely both...what irks me is the "quiet professionals" we used to be was just that...you served, you did what was ordered, then you retired and that was that. Now a day every person who enters special forces is already working on their book, their movie deal, their expose...cashing in on what they did in uniform...basically just a media whore in the making. I was not in special forces, just a boomer squid.

Response by CWO4 Carter Owens made Jan 21 at 2024 9:56 AM

CWO4 Carter Owens — Sun, 21 Jan 2024 09:56:38 -0500

Quiet. Why? Because in the end.... no one really gives a s*it that I pulled a Thirty-Year Active-Duty stint in the Coast Guard as an Engineer and later as an uneducated Civil Engineer. Sure... they'll say the right things around Veterans Day. Or the scripted phrases as I check out at Home Depot with a 10% discount. As I'm writing this I'm looking at my shadow box hanging on the wall and that alone warms my heart. Semper Paratus.

Response by PO2 Chris Yates made Jan 21 at 2024 11:28 AM

PO2 Chris Yates — Sun, 21 Jan 2024 11:28:11 -0500

I agree with both. I don’t need my veteran status to make up my whole identity.

Response by SSgt Marie Hynes Campbell made Jan 25 at 2024 8:50 AM

SSgt Marie Hynes Campbell — Thu, 25 Jan 2024 08:50:45 -0500

I find that it is important to speak when necessary. Think before you speak. Also, when it comes to opinion, the only person who cares about my opinion is myself. So for me I stick to facts and details.

Response by SPC David C. made Mar 31 at 2024 10:42 PM

SPC David C. — Sun, 31 Mar 2024 22:42:06 -0400

99.9% I don't feel the need to talk about anything to anyone who wasn't in. I don't feel the need to correct anyone for any reason because they don't care and aren't going to change their minds or opinions. If someone is lying about something..."sure thing champ" and I just go on with my day. If they want to play the "one up" game..."okay dude, you win" and I move on. I have a small circle of people I know I can bullshit with and that's it. Anything else is usually a waste of time.

Response by SSG Franklin Briant made Apr 1 at 2024 12:46 AM

SSG Franklin Briant — Mon, 01 Apr 2024 00:46:20 -0400

Am I loud and proud of what I accomplished, you damn right! I wear clothing and hats that have military themes. I was in the active Army for 20+years and I am very proud of that. If it offends you then stay away from me. Other than my clothing and manners/way of addressing people I do not broadcast the fact until I hear someone speaking about the military in a bad way or attempting to pass themselves off as a veteran or suspected stolen valor. I will not stay quiet about my service and will always defend my brothers and sisters in arms.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 1 at 2024 10:31 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 01 Apr 2024 22:31:03 -0400

I pick what fights are important to me.

Response by SFC James Corona made Apr 2 at 2024 11:30 AM

SFC James Corona — Tue, 02 Apr 2024 11:30:38 -0400

This question has a "double edge answer" and is a loaded question. My input is based by seasoned military experience and civilian work interaction. The watch-word is "prudence" and every case is different. There is much to say but I will be succinct; as a veteran, there is a certain amount of mutual respect with peers and supervisors and the corporate work climate. Whether you are a manager or not you must be willing to play minor politics in the workplace. If you can't or won't play politics get out of the corporate culture and START YOUR OWN BUSINESS!

Response by SSG David Milholen made Apr 2 at 2024 5:29 PM

SSG David Milholen — Tue, 02 Apr 2024 17:29:25 -0400

I talk more about my memories both good and bad experiences which I believe has helped me cope more being around my family,co-workers and such.. I do have that warrior inside that will never go away but has yet to be provoked even at the most distressful levels,but I guess I always think to my self that it could be worse :)

Response by PFC Joseph Eggy made Apr 3 at 2024 1:03 AM

PFC Joseph Eggy — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 01:03:31 -0400

I don't feel like I did a career I'm the military and I like to keep it quiet. If anyone asks, then I tell them about it. I also do wear the occasional unit shirt or hat. I can't stand the overly "patriotic" fake types. Those dimwits were the first to run back to the barracks before retreat and to the colors played, yet now someway, somehow, they are Uber patriots because of their misguided beliefs.

Response by SGT Ted Reed made Apr 3 at 2024 10:11 AM

SGT Ted Reed — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 10:11:46 -0400

i prefer the term Quiet Patriot

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Apr 3 at 2024 11:25 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 11:25:31 -0400

I find it important to be a little of both, it depends on the situation and or the circumstances plus conversation. I have been there done that and have a silent respect about it, However there are times when you need to let your hair down and just have some humorous patriotic fun.

Response by MSgt John Bolden made Apr 3 at 2024 2:22 PM

MSgt John Bolden — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 14:22:59 -0400

I am A PUFL member of the American Legion and a life member of the Vietnam Veterans of America I participate in our activities. I wear hats with indicators of my retirement from the Airforce and affiliations to the groups in public on occasion I wear coats that indicate the same. I fly the flag on my house and a small veteran flag. I will discuss my experiences when asked.

Response by 1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) made Apr 3 at 2024 4:49 PM

1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 16:49:09 -0400

Few people realize that the Green Berets traditional role is to train foreign armies - the only arm of the military designed especially for this purpose. They're known as the "quiet professionals" because they work mostly in secret, unnoticed, unrecognized, and the best soldiers America has (CBS 60 Minutes Special). I have always considered myself to be a "Quiet Professional". Not only as a Green Beret but as a civilian. However, I don't hide when asked about my service. I may be quiet but I am also proud of everything I accomplished in the Army.

Response by Sgt Charles Riley made Apr 3 at 2024 6:32 PM

Sgt Charles Riley — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 18:32:50 -0400

I am today and always have been an Outspoken Patriot. I spent 4 yrs in the military including a year in Vietnam and was proud to serve my country. The state of our country today makes me sick to my stomach.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Apr 3 at 2024 10:41 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 22:41:35 -0400

When on active duty, I preferred to be the former, when I was retired, the latter.

Response by MSgt Kris Engel made Apr 3 at 2024 10:53 PM

MSgt Kris Engel — Wed, 03 Apr 2024 22:53:07 -0400

I am currently working in a defense related industry, and am lucky to be surrounded by many like minded individuals, Prior service/retirees are highly sought after in this industry. I also work in a corporate America environment where "inclusion" has become the norm when hiring practices are involved. (This is not going to be a political speech). I have been working here 22 + years and have seen a significant change in what are considered to be acceptable behaviors. When I started this job, right out of the military, we were able to talk "there I was" stories during lunch in the facility cafeteria. We could be outspoken about our military history. But, over the years, we have seen many individuals get counseled over there conversations that were overheard by "them" (being the people of the NON-Veteran variety).. They did not like the talk of violence and graphic discussions. Even though they were considered very mild by our standards. As of today, I prefer the quiet humble approach, while at work or out in public, this is mostly to prevent myself from becoming a YOUTUBE/TIK TOK video from some peace loving commie type.

I will give a hats off to all of you outspoken types who love that confrontation and will stand behind you if ever needed though.

Response by MSgt MIchael McGee made Apr 4 at 2024 5:47 AM

MSgt MIchael McGee — Thu, 04 Apr 2024 05:47:57 -0400

I have learned through my 26 years of service and 67 years on this earth, that a foolish person speaks because they have to say something, while an intelligent person speaks because they have something to say. That being said, as I am extremely proud of my service to this country, I prefer to chose my battles, if I hear someone belittling or berating the service our young warriors have given to the freedom of the country, I most certainly will speak up to inform them that the freedom they enjoy is due to that service, so I will remain a quiet professional until such time it becomes necessary to speak up.

MSgt McGee, USAF (Ret)

Response by LCDR Lucian Laurie made Apr 4 at 2024 12:24 PM

LCDR Lucian Laurie — Thu, 04 Apr 2024 12:24:24 -0400

The U.S. military is only the organization that it is because of the distinct separation between the military and politics. This can extend to almost all interactions. I am careful that any partisan efforts I make for any cause, are rendered as a private citizen, not as a "Veteran." If people around me urge me to identify as a veteran to further the cause, I politely decline.

Response by SCPO Rev. Dr. Thomas Peavy made Apr 4 at 2024 2:21 PM

SCPO Rev. Dr. Thomas Peavy — Thu, 04 Apr 2024 14:21:28 -0400

I served in the USN as a Gunnersmate, was Blue Water Navy in Vietnam and discharged. Had broken service and then served in the USAR as a Medic for four years. I completed my Army contract and enlisted in USNR and was attached to the Fleet Marine Force as a Corpsman. I retired as Senior Chief Petty Officer with 25 years active and reserve service. To discuss my service, even with other veterans, can be complicated and certainly with civilians it would be. Post USNR retirement, I served in US Coast Guard Auxiliary for 20 years and retired. My awards reflect service in three branches of the military. I don't try to explain that to military or civilian. People will believe what they choose. I don't need or expect affirmation. I am pleased to say I served. I do wear my caps for protecting a bald head and simply acknowledge with "Thank You" if someone mentions my service.

Response by Cpl Thomas Simpson made Apr 5 at 2024 9:26 AM

Cpl Thomas Simpson — Fri, 05 Apr 2024 09:26:49 -0400

Quiet Professional. I defend the military 100% but only talk about my service if I'm asked, introduced that way, or it comes up in conversation. It brings up to many questions for me. I don't always feel like being interviewed about my time in Service. I usually just say "that was 25-30 years ago, Its all different now/"
Plus if i hear 1 more i was going to join the Marines but...... I'm going to lose my self bearing.

Response by SSgt Michael Anderson made Apr 5 at 2024 2:32 PM

SSgt Michael Anderson — Fri, 05 Apr 2024 14:32:21 -0400

I've always been patriotic-- military or not! I don't talk a lot about my military career. My friends know I'm a retired veteran that used my training to get a successful civilian job that I also retired from. They also know that I have always loved my country.

Response by CPO Jack De Merit made Apr 6 at 2024 8:50 PM

CPO Jack De Merit — Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:50:45 -0400

I will always be outspoken about my Military Life. My generation had a very large amount of cowards who protested what we were doing in Vietnam. We were labeled as Baby Killers and Women Killers by the cowards who either left the United States or Dodged the Draft. I will tell anyone who asks what I did in my 28 years and 9 months in the Navy. I tell them all the good things only. The 1,600 men and women I taught as the Command Chief Petty Officer, Weapons Master and Training Officer of my unit. What I did in Vietnam is none of their business. I will ALWAYS promote and support all the Military men and women who served. I serve as the Chaplain of my Masonic Lodge and I was involved with the Los Angeles National Cemetery Support Committee for 12 years but had to leave because they appointed an asshole as the Cemeteries's Director who refused to throw out two members who lied about their service. I will be going back to being a member next week.

Response by A1C John Oriol made Apr 9 at 2024 9:47 AM

A1C John Oriol — Tue, 09 Apr 2024 09:47:31 -0400

After being a quiet vet for over 60 yrs., I have seen the country (esp. politicians) going to pot and changing to outspoken patriot. But who listens beside vets?

Response by PO2 Howard Carrell made Apr 10 at 2024 6:44 PM

PO2 Howard Carrell — Wed, 10 Apr 2024 18:44:07 -0400

Speak softly and carry a big stick.

Response by SFC Kevin Childers made Apr 19 at 2024 9:32 PM

SFC Kevin Childers — Fri, 19 Apr 2024 21:32:44 -0400

I'd suggest adjusting to the local social environment.