Posted on Sep 4, 2014
1SG First Sergeant
56K
847
336
19
17
2
At_what_rank_should_soldiers_be_exempt_from_organized_pt__
Posted in these groups: Logo_no_word_s FitnessImgres Physical Training
Avatar_feed
Responses: 162
SSG Pete Fleming
126
126
0
Retired
(126)
Comment
(0)
SSG(P) Instructor
SSG(P) (Join to see)
5 y
Sometimes working for the commander has its privileges, or in the case of a Marine out of regulation, it's downfalls. Ie. Ordered NOT to got to PT.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSG Nco
SSG (Join to see)
5 y
fjajfa
(0)
Reply
(0)
SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
2 y
Cpl Walker,
"In the Marine Corps we don't have fat officers, NCOs or Marines."

Makes for nice recruitment advertising no doubt, but not reality.
(1)
Reply
(0)
SGT (Other / Not listed)
SGT (Join to see)
>1 y
SGT (Join to see) - maybe that Marine lieutenant is just chewed the f*ck up. Because there are plenty of chewed up marines. (Please tell me there aren’t. Please).

And let me ask this. If there are so few fat Marines, why is there so much MARPAT for them to buy? The manufacturer doesn’t produce that stuff in onesies, twosies. So there had to be enough of a demand for it to produce in number at sizes like 3X, or whatever size LT Jibblets in the picture above is wearing.

I genuinely await a response.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small
1LT Infantry Officer
60
60
0
Oh boy, this is going to get heated...

I can understand select individuals being exempt from PT out of the necessity of their duties (one example might be: cooks need to be preparing meals for after PT, so they conduct PT at night time), but to me, everybody needs to conduct PT together. At least in Squad/Section/Platoon echelons.

I do think that as a Soldier becomes more senior in grade, it's paramount that they show up and make an effort with their subordinates. It's leadership by example.
(60)
Comment
(0)
SFC Logistics Management Specialist
SFC (Join to see)
5 y
TSgt Rick Ramos not only have I had Airman work for me I was once an A1C with the 349th CRS at Travis AFB in Fairfield, California. This was while in the Reserve between active duty stints in the Navy and Army...I was a 50232 7-level C-5 Galaxy Crew Chief. Mind you this was in the early 1990's when we wore those stupid leather velcro name patches and couldn't differentiate between Enlisted and Officer.

No, there is no organized PT in the Air Force. As a matter of fact no one enforced weight standards until 2009 when the drawdown came about and the Air Force decided it was time to start enforcing PT and weight standards...the Air Forces idea of organized PT is doing Zuma at the Post Gym.

Now there are actually those with AFSC's and civilians who hight, weigh, and grade Airman because senior leadership has no trusr in your NCO's to not conduct Skillcraft AFPT.lol

I have to say that the Air Force has come a long way in that you no longer see an over abundance of Good Year Blimps wearing ABU's where there buttons are pulling apart so hard that it looks like they are wearing spandex...lol
(1)
Reply
(0)
Specialist Teacher Primary And Secondary
(Join to see)
2 y
CW5 Sam B. - nice office Sir. Hope you going fine.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CSM William Payne
CSM William Payne
2 y
A command team at any echelon that regularly shows up to do PT and take the APFT with the rest of the troops is off to a good start in establishing their credibility. Starting as a young Drill Sergeant I learned early that you can only lead from the front. My feet and knees were starting to wear out before I retired, but I always enjoyed doing PT with the Soldiers and the encouragement of the group to always try to do just one more or run just a little bit faster.
(0)
Reply
(0)
MAJ Software Integration/Test Engineer
MAJ (Join to see)
27 d
SFC (Join to see) - I was an engineering assistant assigned to a Red Horse squadron in the 80s. 7 years active and I never once did organized PT once I left basic training at Lackland.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small
COL Chief, Land Forces Division
53
52
1
I responded to CPT Aaron Kletzing, and I have seen many of the same comments from multiple people: NONE!!

This is from my vantage point and what I've seen. Take it for what it's worth and keep an open mind.

The last time a leader is personally responsible for organized unit level PT is at the Company level (1SG and CPT). There are some instances of a MAJ being in charge of a Company, but I'll lump them in with the CPT's. That's the last time unit training management and the conduct of a physical training plan is squarely on your shoulders. You MUST conduct PT with your unit in order to execute and evaluate the plan that you have in place and adjust it as necessary to meet the goals you have set for YOUR unit.

Beyond that, you are a staff MAJ or SGM. At that point there is no reason why you shouldn't be conducting PT with your staff section. But...you have a Company Commander and a 1SG who have set the goals for the company and the sections. It is your job to comply. Still should be doing PT with your section.

Beyond that, you have upper level staff SGM's and LTC's and then BN CDR's and CSM's. Keep walking that up the chain. You are no longer a part of any ONE unit, but responsible for the conduct and standards across a larger formation. It is your duty to ensure that those standards are being met. It is difficult to do that by reporting into the unit of your assignment for PT. You should be out with the platoons and troops looking at the physical training being conducted. Participate in those unit PT events, but never stick with one unit. You may be doing great PT...but THAT ISN"T YOUR PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY. The Army doesn't want you for your body anymore. It wants your mind. Sometimes, it's best if you don't work out with a single unit at all, but move in between units on the same morning. It allows you to see the kinds of training going on in different units at once.

Here's the deal...if I show up to do PT with a platoon...it's smoke the Squadron Commander time. The Platoon Sergeant thinks it's his personal mission to show how tough their PT is. What I really want to see is that they are conducting the PT that is on their training schedule, whatever that is. Often I will show up somewhere because they are supposed to go on a long run, but when I show, it gets changed to 5000 burpees and budy carries until someone vomits. Often at this level, just getting out on a run (by myself or with my CSM) accomplishes the REAL task that I am supposed to be performing as a Squadron Commander. I do extra PT as well...and I still get a 300.

I wouldn't call it being exempt from organized PT...I'd call it selective adherence to organized PT in order to enfore the standards and discipline of the Squadron. You call it what you want, and then we can play rock-paper-rank about it. If you win...I'll do what you tell me to do.
(53)
Comment
(1)
COL Chief, Land Forces Division
COL (Join to see)
5 y
SSG (Join to see), missed the comment in the stream from my initial comment. Must've posted on the main. LTC (Join to see)'s comment, and my previous comments must be taken into account. You haven't addressed the requirement of a Commander to conduct reviews of the training conducted by his subordinate commanders who are the ones actually creating and implementing the training. Not the BN CDR's, BDE CDR's, DIV CDR's, Corps CDR's, etc responsibility. Their responsibility is to ensure that the guidance directed by their commanders for PT are being carried out throughout the force. If you can show up to HHC's formation first and then make it around to the rest of the units, then make it happen. If you can't, then it doesn't happen, because your first responsibility isn't to stand in the back of a Captain's formation...especially if you are a 3 Star General. Your responsibilities lie in the assessment of your subordinate PT programs to ensure they are in line with the guidance provided by you and your commanders above you. My CSM and I make it to HHC's formation the majority of the time, but if we are going to be heading over to the line troop areas (and ours aren't collocated) then, it ain't going to happen. Saying that a senior commander has to be there or a private will lose respect and then it will be there when they are NCO's is telling. If I want their respect during PT, I'll gladly work out with them and smoke the ever-loving legs off of them. It doesn't come from standing in the back of a formation for 3 minutes. If that's what an NCO or a private is looking for, they are seriously near sighted when evaluating someone at the field grade level and above.
(6)
Reply
(0)
SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S.
SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S.
5 y
I agree with LTC Robert Halvorson and LTC Schooler. I served as a staff training and operations NCO for a while and was sent out to units within the command. The BC or CSM would assign units for us to perform PT with to evaluate of training was being conducted as scheduled. We also participated in their activities and, as noted, wherever the BC and CSM showed up an attempt to smoke them ensued. Needless to say, the limited their PT with subordinate units to once or twice a week, but did PT daily.

The assumption of personnel in HHC's and similar units regarding command and staff personnel and training is usually, "If I don't see it, they must not be doing it." Nothing could be further from the truth. No one in a command or staff position would dare fail a PT or other soldierization test and risk embarrassing the unit commander. That would be one heck of a command inspection..."Has anyone in this HHC failed an APFT in the past 6 months?" "Yes, you." Hell no!!

IRegarding the NCO's concern that his Lower enlisted personnel will not respect officers because senior officers will not present for their HHC weekly PT sessions...really? If that's the case, you have real problems.

Explain to your lower enlisted personnel what HHC means. It's Headquarters AND Headquarters Company. The first Headquarters is the BN or BDE element the Headquarters Company consists of. In the HHC's I was assigned to, only 3 personnel were included on the roster: the BN commander, XO, and CSM. Everyone else was assigned to the Headquarters Company.
(5)
Reply
(0)
SFC Combat Engineer
SFC (Join to see)
27 d
Spot on.
Drive on.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SGM Command Career Counselor
SGM (Join to see)
27 d
SSG (Join to see) only for exact use of terms, it would be FTR, not AWOL.
And to be honest, I was a private once, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, and I promise you the last person I wanted to see at PT was a LTC or COL.
I have grown to learn that for the typical Soldier in a line Company, the Army stops at the Company level. The 1SG is the almighty, and the Company Commander rules the world. The BN CDR comes around everyone and then, and everyone avoids the CSM. Corps and ACOM?? Private’s don’t even know what those are!
I think your comment is spot on in the EXACT world of “lead from the front”, but leaders above the Company level just don’t have the ability to be handcuffed to their Company formations, they are responsible for SO much more than that.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar_small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close
Seg?add=7750261&t=2