"Attention to Orders!"... have we been doing this wrong?

2015-12-03T21:50:20-05:00

Years ago when Sergeant Major Joe Gainey was the III Corps CSM at Fort Hood, he told us at a ceremony that "Attention to Orders" does not mean stand if you are not standing and come to the position of attention. It means to pay attention to the orders. In my following commands, I always made sure I called a formation to attention before having someone "publish the orders." Unfortunately, most people in the Army still pop to attention when "Attention to Orders" is called, and those familiar with the proper meaning are left to also come to attention so they don't risk looking like they don't care or are disrespectful. Since CSM Gainey would go on to become the first Senior Enlisted Advisor to the CSA, I imagine he knew what he was talking about. What are your units doing in their ranks when "Attention to Orders" is called?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 9:53 PM

2015-12-03T21:53:49-05:00

Sir, is this in a regulation somewhere? I've been doing this wrong for 19 years.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2015 10:09 PM

2015-12-03T22:09:32-05:00

In TC 3-21.5 the unit should already be at attention when the adjutant going to call "Attention to Orders. The adjutant doesn't have any ability to call any commands that would change the posture of the soldiers in the formation. The Command element should be in front of the formation when this is happening. He shouldn't have already called them to attention. Even if you have not called your formation to attention when the Commander is there in front of the formation he is the only that can call any commands that can change their posture.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Dec 3 at 2015 11:32 PM

2015-12-03T23:32:23-05:00

Na, I am perfectly correct these days. When my wife issues the "Attention to orders", I just reply, What?

All jokes aside, you're right 1LT. "Pay attention to the orders I'm about to read", says the Adj in so many words.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Dec 4 at 2015 12:03 AM

2015-12-04T00:03:33-05:00

In my experience... Attention to Orders meant military personnel in the audience (not in formation, as that is the job of the leaders in front of their units) come to the position of attention until the citation order is read. Generally a narrator will say please stand and please be seated if non-military personal are expected to stand. I have also seen ceremonies, where the narator tells the audience to remain seated. Generally, with regards to audience, when attention to orders is stated, and no one says please remain seated, the military personal pop up, and then so does everyone else. If folks are standing, they are doing so because it is the right thing to do, and/or because everyone else does... Again, I am speaking of those in the audience, not those in unit participating in a ceremony as a unit.

From the Company Commander's Spouse Battle Book.. Published by the USA War College:

• When “Attention to Orders” is announced (promotion), soldiers rise to attention, civilians can remain seated but out of courtesy should stand as well. (at formal ceremonies, such as changes of command, the direction “Attention to Orders” is usually omitted therefore all remain seated)...

• As with promotions and awards, if “Attention to Orders” (the reading of the retirement orders) is announced, soldiers will rise. Out of courtesy, civilians should as well. For all other portions, remain seatedNot sure that helps...

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 12:40 AM

2015-12-05T00:40:57-05:00

You stand at attention. You are correct sir, in the sense that everyone should pay attention, but you must stand at attention for those orders, because any orders published typically come from a commissioned officer or a civilian authority, both of which warrant standing at attention for. Customs and courtesies dictate this policy.

Response by Capt Chris McVeigh made Dec 5 at 2015 2:39 AM

2015-12-05T02:39:01-05:00

If done in full ceremony, "Attention to Orders" would come after the unit is already at attention (after the CO has received the report). So technically yes, it does mean just pay attention, but it is given under the assumption that everyone involved is already standing at the POA. In everyday usage/smaller groups, it often gets rolled into one command, with "Attention to Orders" also serving to call everyone to attention.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 4:46 AM

2015-12-05T04:46:38-05:00

Well for my unit it depends on who's calling it for our Battalion formations the Ltc will call us to attention and then give us the command of attention to orders but as far as company it is just called out as attention to orders and for those who know what actually goin on we either follow suit as the rest of the formation or we look like we are trying to hoodwink our CO

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2015 1:16 PM

2015-12-30T13:16:30-05:00

Every unit I've ever been in stands at attention. Although it does not mention it in FM 3-21.5. It just states that the Adjutant says "Attention to Orders"

Response by CSM Abdo Zacheus made Feb 19 at 2016 2:04 PM

2016-02-19T14:04:49-05:00

The formation should be at attention as previously discussed, but how about the audience? The people sitting under those fancy tents, a mix of friend and family members (military and civilians), they don't get call to attention. Are they suppose to stand during the attention to orders?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2016 9:41 AM

2016-08-01T09:41:17-04:00

When the command to "Publish the Orders" is given and the Adjutant says, "Attention to orders" it is not a command. It is formal way of saying, listen to what I am saying, turn your head and eyes towards me. That being said, unit's in formation should be given the command to "stand at ease" which would allow them to turn their heads and eyes. Furthermore, there are only two commands which bring a unit or individual to the position of attention, the combined command, "Fall-in" and the two part command "attention" preceded by a preparatory command such as squad, platoon, demonstrator, etc...

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Aug 30 at 2017 3:12 PM

2017-08-30T15:12:21-04:00

seems to me the Marines always had a formation. the army just gave you a sheet of paper.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 30 at 2017 3:28 PM

2017-08-30T15:28:50-04:00

"Attention to Orders"
Is not D&C command, it is a directive.
If the commander of troops wants those in attendance to be at attention (commonly that is already done) then the D&C command Attention should be given.
I don't think you will find "Attention to Orders" described and required moments prescribed for its use as it is not a command,

Response by COL John McClellan made Aug 30 at 2017 4:15 PM

2017-08-30T16:15:40-04:00

I must say - I never knew this! It does seem like a "command" to come to the position of attention (and not just to pay attention) when used as it usually is - I can see why there has been confusion on this for many of us for years!! Thanks for the info!

Response by 1SG Stephen Burgess made Aug 31 at 2017 4:33 PM

2017-08-31T16:33:11-04:00

This is what is referred to as a "combined command" meaning it is a preparatory command and the command of execution combined. Since there is not now or has ever been a regulation governing D&C, the guidance set forth in the TC/FM is just that...guidance. There are many examples of "created commands". The command "Center Face" and "Ready Step" are frequently used as needed with no real guidance on their absolute use. Bottom line is; if the Commander says that everyone will come to the position of attention upon the command "Attention to Orders" then that is a lawful order. How many times have we all almost killed ourselves to get to the position of attention for the made up combined command "On Your Feet"? Same thing. technically the CSM was correct. there is no written command "Attention to Orders", but does there need to be? I think not.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2017 6:49 PM

2017-08-31T18:49:19-04:00

So you are entirely correct sir. Unfortunately due to years of people do this incorrectly, has left us with the observed result. I had one CSM who made sure we knew this. It's something that people have seen performed wrong, and just continue to propagate it.

Response by SFC James Asbill made Sep 1 at 2017 1:47 AM

2017-09-01T01:47:09-04:00

Thanks all for a lively and very informative discussion ..

Response by SFC Francisco Rosario made Aug 18 at 2019 1:35 PM

2019-08-18T13:35:33-04:00

Wow, i still see this happening on a regular basis. I am a civilian working for the US Army and i still see it happening. Both civilians and military come to attention at such command. Granted the civilians that i see do it, are veterans.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2021 6:33 AM

2021-07-15T06:33:35-04:00

I feel late to the party answering this years later, but due to some of the responses I feel compelled to do so. There is an execution command "Attention" and there is a statement "Attention to Orders." They are not congruent. The problem is that the word "attention" is in both, so naturally everyone follows the drill command prompt to snap to the position of attention when hearing "Attention to Orders" (I just arrived to a new unit recently and they did this just last week in a promotion ceremony despite not being in formation). However, in an informal setting you would/should never expect folks to make that snap from their varied and awkward stances; rather, the adjutant publishing states "Attention to Orders" as an express vehicle for "STFU and Listen." In a form-al setting (such as a form-ation) the unit MUST have been called to "Attention" PRIOR to the commander's directive of "Adjutant, Publish the Orders." And because the unit is called to "Attention" prior to that particular exchange, we directly infer that "Attention to Orders" cannot possibly be the same command. In an informal setting, the commander may still call the unit to "Attention," but it still occurs prior to issuing the adjutant said directive.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Nov 7 at 2021 10:59 AM

2021-11-07T10:59:22-05:00

USAF doesn’t use the command except during formal outdoor ceremonies. Never saw it used otherwise. As a DAC saw it used only at Army retirement and promotion ceremonies. Inside everyone stood up at the word “attention”.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2021 10:51 AM

2021-12-18T10:51:54-05:00

As of may 2021.

Response by SSG David Curran made Jun 9 at 2023 9:44 AM

2023-06-09T09:44:39-04:00

The doctrine derives from TC 3-21.5 Drill and Ceremonies, updated on 03 May 2021.

ATTENTION TO ORDERS
G-6. “Attention to Orders” is the statement given prior to the formal presentation of an award or
recognition during a ceremony, in both a formal and informal setting. When the adjutant announces
“Attention to Orders” everyone present at the ceremony silence all conversations and focus on the
presentation of the award. If the commander requires military members present at the ceremony to be at the position of Attention, then execution command ATTENTION is given prior to the presentation of the award.

Example:
Formal setting: During a squadron award ceremony the unit is in a squadron formation.
The squadron commander calls all awardees to post. The awardees march to a
designated spot in front of the formation and are prepared to receive their awards. The
squadron commander announces Squadron, ATTENTION. They then direct the
adjutant to publish the orders. The adjutant reads off all Soldier’s awards to the entire
formation while the squadron commander and CSM present the awards to the
awardees.

Informal setting: During a troop hail and farewell ceremony at a local establishment or
banquet hall, the troop commander presents a few permanent change of station
awards to deserving Soldiers. The troop commander would ask the awardees to move
to the front of the crowd to receive their award. The troop commander, at their
discretion, would then direct their executive officer or troop representative to publish
the orders. The adjutant would announce “Attention to Orders.” All personnel in
attendance of the ceremony would silence all conversations and direct all their
attention to the presentation of the award.

Pay attention to the verbiage TC 3-21.5 uses. There’s no requirement to stand at the position of attention before the presentation of the award unless explicitly commanded beforehand. So, pay attention to the award being given.

The Examples
The two examples the manual uses are helpful. You only rise to the position of attention unless explicitly directed by the one in charge of the formation (in the example’s case, it was the Squadron Commander). And the Commander needed to explicitly command the formation using the traditional drill and ceremony ‘preparatory command’ and the ‘command of execution.’

The first example was deliberate in this action. However, the second more informal setting does not state a preparatory command or a command of execution. Without those two commands for movement, the formation performs no task. Referring to “Attention to Orders,” the only requirement for the formation is to pay attention to the orders provided by the Adjutant.

Correctly understanding the meaning of “Attention to Orders” can help us better acknowledge Army tradition and honor the ceremony at hand.

Next time, pay attention to what is being said. If there is no preparatory command and command of execution, then your job is to pay attention and congratulate the Soldier(s) receiving awards.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Jun 10 at 2023 4:07 AM

2023-06-10T04:07:16-04:00

See, That Where There's A Problem.
When I Was In The USAF ~ 1961 -1965,
As An E-4, I Netted $173.00 Per Month
Including Over Seas Pay, And We Were So Underpaid ..
We Couldn't Even PAY Attention...

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 10 at 2023 7:23 AM

2023-06-10T07:23:58-04:00

CSM Gainey, Joe is a personal friend and a great man and leader. As for commands, D&C etc. he was sure to read and be fresh when training Soldiers on the field in prep for a ceremony, parade etc. he was as good and many and better than most. I trust that all senior leaders do the same preparations, and it is inevitable to interpret differently on occasion, then the senior voice wins.