Best Company Commanders: West Point, ROTC or OCS?

MAJ Tony C. — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 11:23:07 -0500

Where do the best company commanders come from: 1. West Point? 2. ROTC? 3. OCS? We've all had them. Cast your vote.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2013 12:47 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 12:47:48 -0500

Can't answer that question it's like asking who's a better 1SG, infantry, aviation or artillery NCOs? I've had many commanders throughout my career, I couldn't pinpoint the best of them, they all had positive affects on their soldiers career in their own way

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Dec 22 at 2013 12:52 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 12:52:53 -0500

I don't think there's any definitive way to answer this; it's subjective and I would expect people to answer this based on their own experiences. A good commander can come from anywhere, as I'm sure we agree. Also, this question would depend on how the respondent defines 'best' -- some people like a tough commander, and some people prefer one who is more endearing, etc.

I do like your question, though -- I'm curious to see what others say. It will probably turn into a series of personal stories used as the basis of absolute conclusions. :-)

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Dec 22 at 2013 12:57 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 12:57:06 -0500

Interesting question sir.  I had 4 Company Commanders while I was a 1SG.  They all brought something to the table.  I think who they were when they assumed command was a product of their experiences up to that point.  I am sure that their commissioning source had some impact on their experiences, but I honestly couldn't say that West Point, ROTC or OCS produced the "best" Company Commanders.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2013 12:59 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 12:59:42 -0500

It’s not where you get your commission but what kind of
character does that commander poses. How his former NCOs interacted and informed
him. There are many variables that make up a good commander. Is not where they
got commissioned.

Response by MSG Timothy Smith made Dec 23 at 2013 5:41 PM

MSG Timothy Smith — Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:41:44 -0500

Back in the day, the mid 70's to be exact, being Infantry and all, it was the common consensus that of the 3, the Direct Battlefield commision was by far the best. West Pointers knew it all and couldn't be taught, ROTC didn't know it all, but at least they (sometimes) could be taught, and OCS had the head knowledge, but not the experience. Fresh out of Basic, so to speak.Battlefield commisions, on the other hand, knew what to do, how to do it, and were capable of doing it. After all, they did survive Viet Nam. That was our choice to who we would follow.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2013 6:22 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2013 18:22:06 -0500

As CPT Kletzing said, you cannot definitively pigeonhole Officers by their commissioning source.  HOWEVER... I went through ROTC in college and most of my classmates are still close friends who are now all Field Grade Officers.  I would trust almost all of them with my life, and would take a bullet for them without hesitation.  I also was accepted to and attended OCS in 2010, but was medically relieved.  I keep in touch with many of those I came in contact with.  Many of those Officers are competent leaders and I would not mind serving under them.  However, I also know a few who just "didn't get it" and have either gotten out already or are in the process of getting out. I knew only one West Pointer, and cannot say I would even buy him a beer.  His attitude and subsequent actions that I found out about were reprehensible.  Not someone I would follow willingly, even if he were the only choice.  I realize that one example is NOT a fair assessment of a huge population.  That one person just left a bad impression on me. So in conclusion, I think that ROTC Officers are likely the most well-rounded leaders, and as a result, make the most effective leaders.  OCS Officers come in at a close second, as many of them are experienced Soldiers and former NCOs.  West Point Officers do indeed receive the best military education, but are somewhat limited in their early professional development, as they are ONLY Cadets for four years.  They know only West Point and the Army during those years.  Officers from ROTC and OCS have a more broad educational and professional background.  But as I responded to CW2 Cruz, it's not the rank you wear on your chest, but what you do with it.

Response by SGT Tom Cole made Dec 23 at 2013 10:38 PM

SGT Tom Cole — Mon, 23 Dec 2013 22:38:01 -0500

The best officers I knew while I was in were either OCS or ROTC. They made more of an effort to get to know the soldiers they were working with. The West Point officers I knew didn't seem to make the same effort, as if they were better than us peons.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2014 10:40 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Apr 2014 10:40:26 -0400

Whether it be ROTC, OCS, or a military academy, past PLs and CDRs who still stand out in my mind years later as superlative were always prior-service NCOs with 4-6 years of experience enlisted.

All three programs have benefits and downfalls. IMO it boils down to character and experience.

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made May 7 at 2014 5:01 PM

SSgt Gregory Guina — Wed, 07 May 2014 17:01:38 -0400

I have to vote other because the best officers that I have worked for were all prior enlisted.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 7 at 2014 8:14 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Wed, 07 May 2014 20:14:14 -0400

Majority in my field were ROTC a few Anapolis. I like both equally. I always liked hearing the stories from the "Academy" that I got from the young Ensigns.

Response by SGT(P) Harry Clyde Jr. made Nov 26 at 2014 3:27 AM

SGT(P) Harry Clyde Jr. — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 03:27:42 -0500

Though late in this thread, Ill keep it simple. Based off of 24 years experience both as a soldier and civilian.
1. OCS- Have the background and experience and are realistic to the needs and attitudes of enlisted soldiers and mission clarity. Never had a bad experience with these officers with the exception of 2.
Had a 2lt as a company co while working in airborne school. Admitted once that being an NCO helped. Had command and XO time before ever being a PL. Service academy officers at that rank would have been lost.
2. ROTC- Many prior service there. These officers tend to be level headed in part cause they have a bit more freedom than those in the service academies. Seemed to me they were able to pick up on things quickly.
3. West Point- May catch hell on this. Im a bit wary of this officers. There are exceptions but most Ive worked with tend to be arrogant, overzealous, not always open to ideas and the worst one looked down on the enlisted and those who weren't academy grads and lastly tend to know everything
Unlike the other two these officers tend to need to be schooled in everything once in a unit by not only higher officers but NCOs and enlisted alike. Case in point, While in OSUT at FTSill, We had 3 drill cadets in our battery. These were 3rd years or Seniors I believe. They eere withbus about a month. One in particular was vicious. Called the trainees Dummy, dropped us for any particular reason, was very negative but didnt contribute very much, very arrogant. I graduated, went to Airborne School then the 82nd Airborne, to Desert Sheild/Storm then back. About 6 months or so my Battery got a new 2lt. It happened to be the vicious drill cadet. He was acting like a very lost puppy. We recognized each other. In OSUT I was one of his main targets. He gave me a very worried look
I was a PFC at the time. Though ill admit it was disrespectful when I opened my mouth, I was mothy back then, but I walked up to him and outrightly said"Ive been to combat, have 12 Jumps, Whos the dummy now!" He said nothing and I walked off. He turned out while with us a good officer, he learned from those with the experience and we ended up getting along fine.
In general it isnt necessarily the school you went to, but your character, how well get along with others, adapting to the unit and missions, see the enlisted as people not undereducated, low class pawns and being a part of the team. The only thing that matters is that we all wear the same uniform and have a mission to do and as an officer no matter where you graduated from, youu show that you want to lead, take care of your people, we'll follow no questions asked. As a platoon, section, company etc, We all look good together or like crud together. What your alma mater is in the end, shouldnt matter. Its after you get your bar and in the real service where the real education begins. Best wishes to all who strive to be officers and be the best leaders they can.
Endnotes. My father was an enlisted active duty infantryman

Response by SSG Everett Wilson made Nov 26 at 2014 5:28 AM

SSG Everett Wilson — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 05:28:08 -0500

That's a hard question to answer. I've had good officers from all three and bad officers.

Response by 1SG Eric Rice made Nov 26 at 2014 5:52 AM

1SG Eric Rice — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 05:52:41 -0500

I can honestly say that i have had company commanders from all 3 categories and I do not believe that it matters. It all depends on the individual commander regardless of what path they took to being commissioned. If an individual commander is all about themselves and obtaining the next higher position regardless of how they achieve it they are not going to be loved by the troops. It is hard to earn respect when you do not respect yourself.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2014 6:42 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:42:01 -0500

Great Battery / Company / Troop commanders come from Solid First Sergeants and a great team of Non-Commissioned Officers supporting / mentoring the officers in the B/C/T!

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Nov 26 at 2014 7:43 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:43:56 -0500

All of the above, you can get good leaders and bad leaders out of any commissioning source, prior enlisted or not. CW4 Private RallyPoint Member nails it. Its all about character not the source.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2014 9:32 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 09:32:16 -0500

I'm not sure if that is a question that can be answered accurately. It really depends on the type of unit and the Soldiers there to help groom the commander.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Nov 26 at 2014 9:42 AM

Capt Richard I P. — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 09:42:19 -0500

All Marine Officers come from OCS, whether they do ROTC or not. The sole exception to this is Naval Academy graduates (other Service Academy transfers have to go to our OCS). My personal opinion is that this exception for Naval Academy grads is a disservice to them.

Further, after completing OCS all Marine Officers (including Naval Academy Grads) attend The Basic School, a 6 month course instilling basic officership in all matters. This standardizes and radically improves the quality of entry-level Marine Officers.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Nov 26 at 2014 10:21 AM

SPC(P) Jay Heenan — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:21:17 -0500

Best CO I ever had was a direct commission guy. He was competent, and 'learned' his role by listening to his Soldier leadership. I don't think it really matters where the commission came from, they all take the same oath. I think as long as they keep the welfare of the 'joes' in mind while completing the mission, they will be good leaders.

We have all read all of the cases of our Officers getting in trouble for things like taking bribes so a certain contractor gets the contract, so it isn't an commission thing, it is a character thing. Just like the Soldiers on the enlisted side, good character always makes better leaders!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2014 10:52 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:52:05 -0500

prior enlisted, followed by those who don't have their head up their ass.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Nov 26 at 2014 12:57 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Wed, 26 Nov 2014 12:57:59 -0500

All of the above. It's not the commissioning source that is important. It is the individiual ability of the person. All the commissioning source does is give you tools for your toolbox. It's up to YOU as the officer to use those tools effectively.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2015 2:47 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 May 2015 02:47:02 -0400

All of the sources produce great B/C/T Commanders, all of them produce flops. I think a lot depends on their first 4-6 years in the Army, not where they commissioned from. By the time you get to B/C/T Command your experiences in the Army should have shaped you into more of the professional that you are expected to be than college did.
That said I will give my opinion based off my experience.
1. West Point- Generally as a B/C/T Commander these individuals are at the end of their commitment, and they do no know whether they are going to stay in or not. I have generally seen a lot of good action and a lot of bone-headed moves because they don't know what they want to do.
2. ROTC- Generally past their initial commitment by the time that they take the guidon. Very similar to the West Point explanation by the time that we get to this point in their careers.
3. OCS- Has generally not left the Soldier or NCO mindset out by the time that they get to B/C/T level, which can be a good thing or a bad thing.

Response by SFC Joseph James made May 21 at 2015 1:55 PM

SFC Joseph James — Thu, 21 May 2015 13:55:57 -0400

It depends on the person. Each brings a certain perspective and history into the military. I have met poor leaders and great leaders from each area. I do love the "Ring Knockers" of West Point!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 21 at 2015 2:45 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 21 May 2015 14:45:52 -0400

I think to some degree, all three sources of commissioned officers will see some leveling out with experience.

Response by SFC Stephen King made May 21 at 2015 3:53 PM

SFC Stephen King — Thu, 21 May 2015 15:53:39 -0400

For me the best Commanders are prior enlisted. They have a different perspective and empathy.

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made May 21 at 2015 11:56 PM

SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA — Thu, 21 May 2015 23:56:15 -0400

They don't come from anywhere in particular.

You have great ones and lousy ones from all the venues listed.

As always, it comes down to the individual.

But FWIW, I've had 3 West Pointers, 1 OCS and 1 ROTC.

West Pointers were the snobbiest (is this even a word?) people I've ever met. 1 was all about the soldiers though, the other 2 all about their numbers and career progression.

The OCS was great, down to earth and balanced.

The ROTC one always seem more interested in showing how much smarter he was than everyone else. Until I proved him wrong.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 12:13 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 00:13:04 -0400

You forgot direct commission. But in reality I've seen and had great commanders in all of these and horrible ones in all of these. I will not generalize. Some will argue prior service are best, yet I've seen all too recent that that is not always the case. Trying to pick ones sets yourself up for generalizations and you will either not give someone a chance or give too much credit to some who probably shouldn't even be in.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Feb 14 at 2016 7:22 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 19:22:14 -0500

I never had an academy grad but I did have OCS, ROTC and prior service officers and they were all pretty good but different. The prior service ones seemed to be better at dealing with people at first but the others learned and turned out fine. No problems with any of them.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Apr 3 at 2019 12:30 PM

CW4 Craig Urban — Wed, 03 Apr 2019 12:30:36 -0400

ROTC. West pointers are overrated.

Response by Capt Michael Wilford made Jul 21 at 2019 10:36 AM

Capt Michael Wilford — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 10:36:34 -0400

Character, not source of commissioning determines who will be a great commander at any level. Some of the best commanders I served with never set foot in a service academy and some of the most arrogant officers I commanded came from the service academies. Then there were the Mustangs like me who came through enlisted commissioning sources, some good officers and some not so good officers.