Blunt advice (keeping it real) to active duty getting out and becoming civilians

2015-11-06T23:51:19-05:00

No matter what your rank was , you have to be willing and humble enough to start at an entry level position at your new work place. To be brutally honest the High level and a lot of mid level managers and supervisors do not care if you were a successful "ass kicking door kicker". I humbly give you all my fellow veterans this advice with respect. Be willing and able to start out from the bottom just as you did when you first entered the military.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Nov 7 at 2015 12:55 AM

2015-11-07T00:55:51-05:00

Sound advice indeed Sir. Most transitioning members are not going to walk into a CEO or vice president of a major defense contractor position! Earn your stripes the right way!

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 7 at 2015 1:00 AM

2015-11-07T01:00:07-05:00

You'll always start at the bottom when doing something completely new. I was an O-6 and senior GS when I started refereeing soccer and had a 32 year old mentor telling me what to do. Kinda fun being an E-1 again. It wouldn't have been as fun if that was my only source of income.

Response by SGT Del Lavature made Nov 7 at 2015 7:17 PM

2015-11-07T19:17:16-05:00

Your absolutely correct and your work ethic won't go unnoticed! Never pass up the opportunity to advance and apply for any and all opportunities that exceed or normal job functions such as first aid team, safety team etc...

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2015 12:34 PM

2015-11-08T12:34:37-05:00

Unless you have your 20-year letter, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!

Response by CSM David Heidke made Nov 10 at 2015 6:32 AM

2015-11-10T06:32:35-05:00

I disagree.

If I work at a bank for ten years and work my way up to a director position, I don't expect to take a job at another bank as a teller and work my way up again.

If you have an MOS that is applicable outside of he military, and most, other than Combat Arms are, you absolutely deserve credit for that experience. Building a login server for a TACNET is the same as building a LAN server at a retail corporate office. Except people shoot at you while you do it.

You have valuable experience, don't sell yourself short because someone at the Piggly Wiggly says your experience doesn't mean anything.

Don't panic, hold your head up, and if the employer doesn't honor your experience, you don't want to work there anyway.

That being said, be realistic. If you're a Specialist, and a cook, don't think you can apply for senior Vice President jobs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2015 8:55 AM

2015-11-10T08:55:10-05:00

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Response by SMSgt Michael Mendoza made Nov 10 at 2015 9:27 AM

2015-11-10T09:27:42-05:00

Good post. Learn as much as you can in your new industry; they can teach you. What they can't teach is a strong work ethic and your willingness to do whatever is asked of you. Don't be a douchebag an thin that because you were once senior enlisted or an officer that you deserve immediate upper status or consideration. You don't deserve anything. If you are able to bring usable experience to your new career, great. If not, then best you humble yourself and get to work.

SMSgt Mike (retired)

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2015 9:33 AM

2015-11-10T09:33:35-05:00

It's not unreasonable to expect the same salary or better. Don't sell yourself short, especially if your profession is the same.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Nov 10 at 2015 9:52 AM

2015-11-10T09:52:45-05:00

Being humble is important in any new job. Do you want people to believe in you and believe in your abilities or do you want them to think that you're just cocky? Confidence is fine but being cocky is not

Response by LT Charles (Chuck) McCoy made Nov 10 at 2015 10:11 AM

2015-11-10T10:11:59-05:00

Having made that transition from an LDO Lt. (O3) in the Navy to retirement as a civillian in 1980 and I totally agree. My first real job as a civillian was to deliver airline tickets for a travel agency. Later I as was a Security Guard for a Condo. I wound up as a File Clerk for an international accounting firm wihich resukted in me ultimately becoming their computer network manager and started my second career as a Network engineer. Do what ya gotta do the best that you can.

Response by PO2 John Crutchfield made Nov 10 at 2015 10:21 AM

2015-11-10T10:21:01-05:00

I agree with you to a certain extent, SFC. There are many employers out there that could give a rats ass if you are prior service. There are others that value your service. In this digital age, it's on you to find out which is which. There are a lot of resources out there (Glassdoor, Indeed, and LinkedIn are several that comes to mind) that you can use to analyze companies from an employee perspective.
Probably the most valuable employers to veterans are ones that support the DOD, DOE, DHS, etc. There are some fantastic contractors out there that will value what you bring to the table.

Response by SSG Todd Halverson made Nov 10 at 2015 10:22 AM

2015-11-10T10:22:15-05:00

Some of what he is saying is true. If you are getting out with only a few years of experience, the chance of getting a mid level career job is not likely. But, if you are moving into a similar career position that you did in the Military, you should be able to find a position with similar or greater pay. I retired as an E6 with 20+yrs. I am now at a lower level, mid manager making a little bit more than in the Military. But, if I did not have Tricare for life and VA medical, my pay would not be comparable to what I made in the Army.
You have to be willing to start a lower position and work your way up the ladder again. When looking at compensation you also have to keep in mind what the benefits the company is offering and what you will have to pay out of your pocket.

Response by SGT James Hastings made Nov 10 at 2015 10:25 AM

2015-11-10T10:25:48-05:00

You got that right. Maybe, if you did some college work during your service or had a specific specialty you might have a leg up. I had to start at the bottom and try several fields before I was able to combine good income and enjoy my work.

Response by SSG Jonathan Edwards made Nov 10 at 2015 11:47 AM

2015-11-10T11:47:55-05:00

I can tell ya.. keep your perspective real and understand that you have to start at the bottom.

But there is one thing many may have forgotten: Your military disclipline and training will allow you to hone your craft faster. Since I left I have transitioned from Intelligence to the IT world. Now, I am back in a field where I can use my Intel skills learned long ago: Politics.

You have to be patient, be diligent, and be positive. Some civilians will despise the fact that you served. Other than a DoD Contracting position, I left my Me wall at home and started fresh. And remember, you will make mistakes. Just learned from them.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Nov 10 at 2015 12:06 PM

2015-11-10T12:06:22-05:00

SFC Jim Mergott, I agree with you, yet I agree with CSM David Heidke also. Sometimes it's in how you package the deal, and what are your desired goals. Too many of us listen to that MSG or COL SoNSo who retired and is making a boatload of money, and tells you that you'll be doing the same thing. MSgt Curtis brought this up in another post about listening to overinflated salaries. It's NOT always true, but Soldiers see this and think they'll be the next 100K a year man or woman. When I retired TAPS was a joke. I learned more from guys who've been out for awhile and schooled me. I did the LinkedIn profile, I got a mentor, I went to VA Voc Rehab, all things I was told to do. I made a resume, and allowed members of LinkedIn to grade it. Of course I failed miserably, but it was a learning curve. I had all these Army specific lingo or acronyms in there and was told "no one will give a shit you were NCOIC of this or that, or that you deployed and did this". I took all of that shit out, made it civilian specific, and THEN had it looked at again, and again, and AGAIN. It's still not perfect, but it's closer to right than I started with. I'm slowly learning that I'm no longer the NCOIC of anything, but I'm Matt Swan, someone who wants to work, and I can put my pride on the shelf to get my foot in the door. Maybe a dose of reality IS what folks need. Maybe then they'll get the wide eyed 1000 yard stare when they see that what they made in the military is actually better than the 100k a year you're being taxed the hell out of. And if anyone wants to talk about humbling yourself to get ahead, I submit myself. I was making good money in the Army. Had a roof over my head, and all I had to do was be at the right place, right time, right attitude. Didn't always work, but the idea's sound. Now I'm an intern. I DO NOT get paid other than the stipend from Voc Rahab, but it gives me a chance to get my foot in the door to get another job that might pay me what I'd like to have. Drop the attitude folks. NOT ONE F*CK is given to you when you get out looking for work. You're now in direct competition with a crapload of others looking for the SAME JOB. Be ready and get ready now.

Response by GySgt Rhett Radcliffe made Nov 10 at 2015 12:29 PM

2015-11-10T12:29:20-05:00

I disagree. I retired as a Gunnery Sergeant and my MOS was 2862 Electronics Technician. I took two contract jobs in Afghanistan at a Sr. Technician level. I then took a job as a entry level electronics tech in Texas and had the worst manager in the world. He had no clue about leadership or accountability. I quit that after a year and was hired as a lieutenant training officer at a private federal corrections facility. I had a lot of experience as a trainer, marksmanship instructor, Red Cross trainer etc... that didn't pay the bills though so now I'm a maintenance supervisor fit a contract at the Corpus Christi Army Depot. I only accepted one job a a entry level, and it was horrible. Don't give up on yourself. Know your worth.

Response by MSgt J D McKee made Nov 10 at 2015 12:44 PM

2015-11-10T12:44:04-05:00

I take your very valid point. I got out a 6 years thinking I would make more at a civilian job, just because most E5's I knew at the time would qualify for food stamps (1979) and some of the E6's would too. The job was bullshit. More hours, less pay just crap in general. I went back in and lost 2 years TIG as an E5 and was immediately very happy. It was coming home.

I retired years later, and after a year of pretty hard looking, got a job as Mall Security Supervisor. You know, just writing that made me feel bad. After 22 years of being the cops (security police) I now had to CALL the police. I stayed 3 years and then took an $8000.00 a year pay cut to be a deputy sheriff. Happy again. Not home, but at least next door. The pay was enough that combined with my retirement was about what I was making as an E7 when I retired, but as someone else said, even that would not have been comparable without lifetime medical. This was about 1996.

My pay as a full time deputy the last year I worked including a lot of overtime was $29,000 before taxes, about 21,000 after.

I quit as a deputy and went to Afghanistan on contract. The first two months I was there I made as much as I had made in a year as a deputy, and it was mostly tax free. The last job I had there paid so much I won't even name the figure, but it was "truly obscene" to quote a movie.

Depends on what you want to do and how bad you want to do it. Almost anyone on this site would qualify for one of those jobs, particularly the very "Combat Arms" types who have problems elsewhere. They DO need machine gunners....That and, right place, right time, because if you aren't lucky enough to be there when they want to hire, doesn't matter how bad you want it or how hard you try.. If I hadn't heard of the contract job thing, I'd still be poor instead of middling alright. I'm not in a wheelchair, no missing limbs or blindness, but I'm pretty screwed up physically, though, and that wouldn't have happened, either.

From what I think and have seen and believe, it appears pay has went up a lot, justifiably, in my day there was no Iraq or Afghanistan. If it truly has went up as much as it appears to have, it will be that much harder to get a job that pays as much after you get out.

I have no good advice, just what happened to me.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Nov 10 at 2015 1:30 PM

2015-11-10T13:30:32-05:00

This is not always the case. First off, employers do take in to credit your military leadership. In fact, this sometimes gives you bonus points over other candidates. There is no reason why a senior level NCO or Officer should have to settle for a entry level position until he/she doesn't know how to craft a successful resume that works FOR you rather than you for it.

The skills that service members at all levels are sought after by employers because for the most part, they don't want to waste time teaching someone else these skills. Then there are the soft skills that we have mastered through out years of service that take twice as long to learn outside the service. Sure, I will agree that the chances of a Veteran walking in and getting the huge corner office with some fancy title are fewer than those chances to start at a lower level and work towards that office; but I think it would serve as a huge discredit to one's service to tell them the only chance they have is to start at the very bottom when that is not the case.

Response by SSG Paul Forel made Nov 10 at 2015 1:31 PM

2015-11-10T13:31:57-05:00

The danger here, SFC Mergott, is that you are encouraging transitioning military personnel to accept less than what might have been possible for them.

To suggest, without qualification, that a former enlisted/NCO/officer not be as persistent and thorough as possible within the scope of their job search is self-defeating.

Yes, many may not have a competitive edge when seeking civilian employment but for everyone else, to suggest they not strive to take their hard-earned experience and credentials to the highest possible level on a civilian company's organizational chart is cutting their feet out from under them.

Please know that you are giving career advice and as I have said in the past, bad career advice is akin to bad medicine. What you say could negatively affect a broad number of transitioning military.

Someone is going to keep what you said in mind when they are offered a subpar position with a company and thinking they have done the best they can, will accept a position with a company that puts them behind the eight ball from the start. At worst, you may be encouraging someone to take a position that is not meant for them, driven by the short-sightedness of a civilian employer who will think they are getting a deal.

(How many of you have taken such a job because you had simply run out of gas or had mistakenly accepted such a scenario as a best possible situation?)

Better advice would be to preach persistence and a thorough approach to seeking out a suitable opportunity in the civilian job market. Where mutual respect is offered by an employer in the light of a transitioning military person's persona, recognizing and giving that person an appropriate starting place with the company, to the betterment of that company and with regard to that person's value.

What I just heard you say is that it is 'okay' if I don't drive myself to attain the best possible civilian opportunity that could be available to me.

It would be easy to fall into what you say since a job search could include sending out hundreds of resumes, an endless number of interviews (often with interviewers who look at former military personnel as very odd birds) and hours upon hours of research, seeking out best possible companies to work for. For those who have certain advantages of rank and experience, an appropriate civilian job opportunity will show itself in the early part of their job search.

But for most, a job search is often an exercise in endurance.

Never before have I heard an NCO suggest that settling for an employment situation not equal to the value, experience and capacity for excellence I could bring to the table is acceptable. That not mastering an obstacle course is 'okay'.

To take what you said and use it as a guide is nothing less than suggesting transitioning military allow your well-meaning but imperfect advice to shape their horizons to their own detriment.

These forums should be about 'how' to achieve one's dreams and not about coaxing former military job-seekers to accept less than could be possible for them.

What possible value is there to suggest someone seeking civilian employment set their sights low?

When you do this, you set the stage for mediocrity or, at best, set one back a step or two toward attaining a more appropriate position on that civilian company's org chart.

Respectfully said, my request is that you do what you are trained to do best- encourage separating personnel to be persistent, creative and if necessary, innovative in their job search.

Leave the bad news to the bad news bears.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Nov 10 at 2015 1:38 PM

2015-11-10T13:38:55-05:00

I'm with you. Veterans are not always privileged to get a high position job, but not saying they can't. Some with limited experience may have to be willing to settle for an entry to mid level position. But that is not to say that entry level positions are not high paying.

Response by SSG Paul Forel made Nov 10 at 2015 1:57 PM

2015-11-10T13:57:48-05:00

SFC Mergott,

There is more to consider in addition to what I've said already---

Too many civilian employers have -as we all know- an under-appreciation for the value transitioning military personnel offer.

Even some civilian employers with 'former military' hiring programs have a culture that by its very nature subordinates military personnel.

So to accept your advice actually feeds the monster.

There are too many civilian employers who feel it is appropriate and correct to offer former military personnel entry positions that are subordinate to their potential and as such, discount the capacity of former enlisted/NCO/officers to bring measurable and meaningful value to that civilian employer. So they bring former military people in at a lesser position on their org chart and expect that person to 'prove themselves'.

In such cases, either the candidate seeking employment failed to manifest their value to that employer in the interview or, as I've said, that company has a misconception about the military that is deeply embedded in their company culture.

In such cases, I would strongly suggest that candidate continue to seek out an employer who recognizes and respects the value of that candidate rather than fall into the trap of either despair or resignation that can manifest itself as a result of a lengthy and unsatisfactory job search.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2015 2:41 PM

2015-11-10T14:41:02-05:00

Great advice. Stay humble!

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Nov 10 at 2015 2:55 PM

2015-11-10T14:55:11-05:00

Agreed!

Response by SPC Joseph Plunkett made Nov 10 at 2015 3:02 PM

2015-11-10T15:02:37-05:00

I can confirm this statement. I spent 3 years as a 13B, and then changed my MOS to 25B Information Technology Specialist. When I got my DD-214, I had an Associates Degree, security clearance, and tons of IT training from the Army. Not to mention supervisory experience. With 3 years experience as an Information Technology Specialist, I thought I would have a hand up in the civilian world as at least an Admin. Let me tell you.....no. You are going to start out at the bottom. Tier 1, level 1 technician. Civilian hiring managers don't really care if you can babysit a bunch of privates, or can score a perfect 300 on your PT test. They don't care if you have more medals than Audie Murphy, and can punt a door clean off the hinges. All that stuff that gets you promoted in the Army, means jack in the civilian world. All civilian managers care about is your ability to perform all required functions to an expert level, and can prove your credentials. When you get out of the Army, expect that you are going to be starting out at the bottom. Don't have any expectations that your military experience is going to give you any leg up in the civilian world. I can tell you now, save yourself some disappointment, and expect to start at the bottom.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2015 3:26 PM

2015-11-10T15:26:29-05:00

My advice is if you have any of the following:

1) Bachelor's or Master's Degree;
2) Accredited Apprenticeship Certifications;
3) Accredited Credentials or Certifications.

Then you may have a fighting chance at getting a comfortable job after military life. If you don't, well my suggestion would be to get as many as you can before you get out because military experience alone (especially at the junior ranks) is not enough now a days. The struggle is real, don't let the elusive "them" or "they" tell you otherwise.

ATTENTION TRANSITIONING MILITARY AND VETERANS!!!
The following is a "for us, by us" company that was created by veterans and employs veterans. All their recruiters are prior military and I have spoken at length with Bree (just to make sure it was not a scam). Bree has allowed me to share her contact information for anyone interested in utilizing their FREE services. The following is just a brief summary of what they can provide:

Orion is the nation's largest veteran placement firm. Each year they find careers for thousands of military professionals transitioning from service as well as veterans changing careers. Their services are completely free to veterans...they are funded by companies seeking military talent to be future leaders in their organization. Due to their expertise and proven success, these companies allow them to bypass their human resources screening process and present qualified candidates directly to hiring managers. All of their recruiters are former military, and they don't require you to work exclusively with them.

If interested Bree's contact information is:
Bree A. Dail
LWO Candidate Recruiter
Orion International
P: [login to see] x507
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/breeadail
Website: http://www.orioninternational.com/

Response by Sgt Ron Danielowski made Nov 10 at 2015 4:07 PM

2015-11-10T16:07:00-05:00

Kind of...
Although I think most military members are all willing to starting at a lower level to prove themselves (I have many times), I think CSM Heidke is spot on - don't undersell yourself.
By way of example, my company (Pulse Firearms Training) actively looks for the Combat Arms "ass kicking door kickers," and we don't require new joins to start at entry level positions, they simply need to perform to be at the top - as it should be.
Anyone a little slow on the uptake or rusty, can climb as quickly as they want, and like the military, they will have to put in a little more to get up to speed. Nothing a true door kicker isn't accustomed to.

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Nov 10 at 2015 5:39 PM

2015-11-10T17:39:59-05:00

My MOS was 24K (Improved Hawk (CW) Missile Systems. I got a great job with a high salary and great benefits at the first place I applied. I have been a Telecomm Consultant (Sales) for 31 years and have earned mid six figure incomes every year. Thank You ARMY!
Rick

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Nov 10 at 2015 6:02 PM

2015-11-10T18:02:10-05:00

As to keeping it real; It has much to do with the skills you have and how you present them, along with what positions you are trying to gain access to. I am a 18+ year RN. I will not be treated like a new graduate fresh out of school when I separate from the military....I am also not planning to look for the Executive Chief Nurse position in a hospital. Part of my responsibility to ensure I am not treated as a rookie nurse is to communicate through my resume and interviews, in language that the hiring authority understands, what I am capable of and what my experience has been. Now, if I suddenly get the desire to go into construction, plumbing, electrical, cop, EOD, or any one of the thousands of jobs NOT RN related....then I must be prepared to start at or near the bottom and work my way up. Each MOS/AFSC has a job description. Buried within that job description is the civilian counter part (If one exists). It is the service member's responsibility to tease that out. For some jobs..... Nuclear Missile Operator...not many nukes to launch on the civilian side..... maybe same is true for infantry and artillery....but it is up to YOU to present your skills to potential hire.... The more they match, the better off you will be.

Response by SFC Jim Mergott made Nov 10 at 2015 6:11 PM

2015-11-10T18:11:11-05:00

I'm really glad all of the responses have a lot of EXCELLENT points made . Agreeable and disagreeable , I hope all of the young Vets out there take all this in.

Response by MSG Marcel Guaring made Nov 11 at 2015 12:10 AM

2015-11-11T00:10:12-05:00

There are numerous job opportunity out there but may not be the one that you want or think you deserve. Personally my first job after retiring was an entry level data entry / inventory clerk which I gladly accepted. I was just happy to be able to have a job and augment my retirement pay. after a few months was moved to a Team Inventory Lead and eventually went overseas as a contractor in Iraq and Afghanistan working with PM-IED defeat program and PM AMS (Route Clearance Support).
The bottom line is that you sometimes will not get what you want or think you deserve. Only you know your financial needs and you ultimately make your choice for you and your family.

Response by CSM Carlson C. made Nov 11 at 2015 9:08 AM

2015-11-11T09:08:10-05:00

I left active duty as an E-7 with 12 years, joined the reserves, went back to school got my degree in computer science and was blessed enough to land an amazing job 6 months after graduation. The problem that many vets face getting out is that they are not prepared with civilian mentality, resume writing, fiscal responsibility, training wise and or have too high of an expectation on the jobs that they qualify for. On the flip side of that, there are many vets that sell themselves short on what they truly qualify for. I would recommend taking advantage of the G.I. Bill (Definitely worked for me), start planning your separation BARE MINIMUM a year out. If you are planning to get out and your CoC is hampering your efforts of transition. Give them a schedule of your appointments, be proactive and not last minute and don't take advantage of the situation. Civilian life is hard, especially if your a contractor, but there are many success stories. Believe me, I was afraid of leaving active duty, but I'm in a happy place now. I miss it but I like my life as it sits now.

Response by TSgt Erica Claus-numsali made Nov 11 at 2015 10:01 AM

2015-11-11T10:01:09-05:00

When I retired from the Air Force, I chose to work as a cook instead of working as a manager (I have a degree in hotel, restaurant and fitness management) because I had more fun and less stress cooking. However, playtime is over. I told my managers that I need more responsibilities by being shift lead or something that shows progress from where I started.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2015 11:10 AM

2015-11-11T11:10:52-05:00

well ... that is true in many way. But with education and how to present yourself make a huge different too.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2015 8:53 PM

2015-11-11T20:53:18-05:00

You want honesty. Ok here it goes. Here is the problem CSM, you don't work at a bank and you are not looking to move to another bank. You are a war fighter in a completely different culture applying to civilian positions who's requirements differ greatly from your previous career path. As I have posted before, sales of military, tactical and other related products seem to be a better fit that use your Experiance to the fullest advantage. Project Management, law enforcement, private security, maybe high tech all may be a decent fit depending on your MOS. the truth is our culture, expectations of others, how we communicate, talk to each other is not always a good fit at the bank. (Or most civilian jobs)
The process should be: find the career field that you are passionate about. Enter at the level that you are qualified for, then management will soon realize that you have much more skill, ambition, drive, focus and ability than any other civilian in that position. Then you get promoted. Then guess what? You keep doing that and you, hopefully, find yourself on the fast track to a higher and higher position. And , oh by the way, you learn. You learn lots about product, procedures, people, culture, dos and don'ts. We don't normally receive the Western US manager role just because of our military rank. Much like the VP at the bank doesn't come into the Army as a CSM. Why you might ask? Now pay attention, this is important! Because he doesn't know jack shit about how we do things. How to make the moving parts work. How to pick up a phone, with the benefit of decades of relationships and make things happen. As you can see, it goes both ways. Not realizing this is the Cheif reason recruiters find it hard to work with some Vets. There should be no sense of entitlement. We work and we work hard for everything we have. Just to qualify my rhetoric , check me out on LinkedIn, James Riley Blackhart. I've been there and have navigated these waterways. Now I own LedWave North America. Check that out on Face Book. It is through that hard work mentioned above that I am now the one who hires our most valuable and under recognized and unappreciated resource. The American Veteran.

Response by MSG Shawn Butler made Nov 12 at 2015 10:50 AM

2015-11-12T10:50:15-05:00

I'll go one step further. Do not reveal you are a veteran if you don't have to. Civilians feign respect but are envious and intimidated. don't tell people how much you pay for healthcare. This makes them angry also.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2015 3:53 PM

2015-11-12T15:53:13-05:00

I read many responses before responding. Some great points. Let me add that a mistake SO MANY make is not taking the time to translate your military skills into marketable civilian world skills in a resume. There are many resources to help you do that but if you put some effort in, it works. Before I learned this, if you asked me to put my skills or job history on a resume, I would say "Officer in Charge responsible for storing, transporting and maintenance of air and surface weapons. Loading and offloading Atlantic Fleet ships so they can go blow sh%t up". After some training and exposure, that changed to "Led, mentored and trained a diverse workforce of over 200 maintaining a 30,000 line item inventory valued at $1.9B. Supported customers in all modes of shipment, receipt, storage and issue...... Awarded the xxx award for excellence in Program Management" I think you see the difference. Unless you are applying for a position at a military munitions site, not many will give you a second look. The second write up WILL get you a look in pretty much any logistics/commodity management position. Your skills are worth more than what many think if YOU can tell them in a manner that captures their attention. I did it for 35 years so I had plenty of experience to choose from. Starting my new GS-13 job 30 Nov and have turned down MANY because I took some time off. Last thing is, your network WILL get you hired before most resumes all things being equal. I retired as a CDR, one of my LinkedIn contacts is one of my former Petty Officer Second Classes who owns his own business and could buy and sell me, He may be the one to hire you because he remembers you from years ago as someone who got it done. I would not start ANYWHERE except at the level that I know my hard earned skills and expertise merit. Adjusting fire may be required but within reason. You know that you are qualified for that supervisor or management position, perhaps you accept a lower level one but not the job cleaning out shitcans.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 12 at 2015 7:49 PM

2015-11-12T19:49:59-05:00

I take it you have 20+ years?

Response by SSgt Eric Wingrove made Nov 13 at 2015 11:22 AM

2015-11-13T11:22:46-05:00

I have been retired from the Air Force 13 yrs and recently was employed by a local Home Depot. It was short lived for many reasons. I was working three part-time jobs making more money than 1 full time. I worked for HD for about 3 months my supervisor was former Army and two other co-workers were also Army, One Vietnam and One Guard member who apparently served in Iraq. The one thing I kept asking to get was my forklift license since I was Supply and drove one for over 25 yrs. Was denied every time since they said they didn't need any more operators. I new my days were numbered. I even had one of my fellow vets tells me I never served since I didn't go and Kill some one and I wasn't in the same league as them so don't sit with us you don't deserve there company....Really!......If my first wife of ten years didn't get half of my retirement for cheating on me with my Base housing neighbor and drinking buddy while I was in Desert Storm and Iceland for a year, I wouldn't have to put up with crap out there and live on My full retirement.. These people can be brutal.

Response by 1SG Nick Baker made Nov 14 at 2015 11:30 PM

2015-11-14T23:30:32-05:00

I started out as a Temp sweeping the machine shop floor.

Response by SGM Ray Whitaker made Nov 26 at 2015 10:40 AM

2015-11-26T10:40:33-05:00

There are some good points here SFC Jim Mergott but it is just as important for the service member not to sell themselves short either. Veterans come with loads of skills that takes a civilian counterpart 2x more time to learn.

Your point is spot on, with being prepared to start at an entry level position. I just warn that each industry is different. If a service member is preparing properly before leaving the service they will have a better opportunity of starting a rung or two higher than the bottom. I would also tell those transitioning that your work ethic will propel you to a promotion alot faster than you think. So, even if you start at an entry level, your determination will be noticed. Just stay humble.

All good points though and we should always help those transitioning.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Nov 26 at 2015 12:43 PM

2015-11-26T12:43:55-05:00

One of the things in TAP that they said that I could see people of rank trying to do is talk about their connections. The TAPS guy was saying that makes the person look arrogant and that they need to cover an inability to do the job with flaunting something else.

Response by MAJ David Wallace made Nov 26 at 2015 6:45 PM

2015-11-26T18:45:47-05:00

You are absolutely right, SFC Jim Mergott! I came off active duty in the summer of 1995 after a highly successful command of a Bradley infantry company in Germany that we relocated to Ft. Lewis, WA. I decided that it was time to get out, return home, and spend some time with my family while raising my kids. The job market wasn't all that great, and I didn't want to take one of the jobs that I found working with headhunters that would take me half way across the country.....Nope, I was home. I was bound and determined to make it in my hometown. So, I ended up working as a driver for Domino's Pizza and delivering newspapers while trying to get my own small business off the ground. It was a major grind and a shot to my morale: I was no longer a hard charging company commander with a mission. I was the low man on the totem pole so I spent my late nights cleaning out pizza ovens, cleaning the 'make line,' and sweeping and mopping floors. Luckily, my Mom and Dad imparted their work ethic in me and I made it work. In a year, I became a police officer and slowly worked my way back into a productive lifestyle. Truer words were never spoken, SFC Mergott!! Good discussion!!

Response by 1SG Nick Baker made Nov 26 at 2015 8:38 PM

2015-11-26T20:38:50-05:00

I did not find that true that senior management did not like military. I guess it depends on the industry. Leadership is something the workforce needs. I found manufacturing is a great place for those skills.

Response by CPO Michael Callegri made Feb 24 at 2016 7:37 PM

2016-02-24T19:37:29-05:00

I think this is excellent advise. I do have a problem though, once you get your foot in the door, when your skills are ignored, then once you finally move up to that position years later, how surprised everyone are at how successful you are. It won't help you get in the door, but your skill set should be looked at more closely once you are in the door.