Can a 1SG be made to remove their diamond while in a WTB unit?

1SG Jason Strohmetz — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 17:39:42 -0500

I'm currently in transition in a WTB unit and was told by the company 1SG that I can not wear my diamond while in the WTB. I am still the 1SG of my unit and have not had a change-of-responsibility. I have researched AR 40-58 (WTB Reg) and some other regs but can not find anything that mandates this diamond removal. I feel as though this is more of a personal issue for the company 1SG versus an Army mandated policy. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2020 5:47 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 17:47:47 -0500

Hypothetically, if they have administrative authority over you while there.
First Sergeants are kind of like highlanders - there can be only one.

Response by SSG Gregg Kemp made Feb 20 at 2020 5:59 PM

SSG Gregg Kemp — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 17:59:49 -0500

Serious question - I really don't know - what is a WTB Unit?

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Feb 20 at 2020 6:49 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 18:49:20 -0500

I would hazard a guess that as long as your are still assigned to your unit back home you are still their 1SG. You were laterally appointed 1SG by your commander as long as he is still your commander then its his perogative. This is one of the situations where you have to weigh the cost of wearing your rightful rank agains negative attention from folks who control your short term career. Things may go easier if you just throw MSG rank on and get off the radar. This is just me and I am a bit of an asshole but I would respectfully tell the WTC 1SG thanks for your suggestion I will take it under advisement. I am a retired 1SG and I wear my Uniform with my 1SG rank all the time while at activities with the unit 1SG there and have never had an issue. While its very rare to have 1SG's at WTC back when I worked a MOB platform I saw at least 2 attached to the WTC's and the unit 1SG's had zero issues with them wearing their rank. I don't know the whole story but I would guess the WTC has some kind of uncalled for issue with anyone but him/her wearing the diamond in his unit.

Response by MSG Jerry O'Rourke made Feb 20 at 2020 7:34 PM

MSG Jerry O'Rourke — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 19:34:39 -0500

Unless your apparent unit has done a DA Form 4187 to reduce you in rank you wear the diamond.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2020 8:53 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 20:53:07 -0500

What is your rank and duty position?
Are you TDY to the WTU, or have you been reassigned?
You didn't just pin on 1SG rank when assigned to the position, and I'm not certain you have the authority to laterally appoint yourself from 1SG to MSG.
I'm certain that 1SG isn't the lateral appointment authority, though.
If the 1SG wants that to happen, he should submit paperwork to have it done.
I suggest requesting an appointment with the first CSM in the WTU NCOSC to request clarification.

Response by CSM William Payne made Feb 20 at 2020 9:39 PM

CSM William Payne — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 21:39:00 -0500

I’m going to give you another example, slightly different circumstances. I was a 1SG in my unit when I got orders to attend the Residence Course at the Sergeants Major Academy. Day one at orientation, we were told there was only one 1SG at the USASMA and we weren’t it. With the exception of our Class A uniforms, we were to wear MSG chevrons while we were there, and we did. When we graduated and I returned to my unit, back to being a 1SG.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Feb 21 at 2020 5:10 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 05:10:41 -0500

Not sure it is personal, maybe confusing. The diamond signifies the person who is in charge of the healthy, welfare and training of the Soldiers. By yo wearing the diamond it can disrupt the flow of authority within the organization. It will not be you who creates the issue m, it will be unsuspecting Sokdiers who come to you with issues, and you will feelnobliged to assist or accommodate. That users the unit 1SG’s authority, however unintentional.

As a Master Sgt. You can defer to the 1SG as they are clearly in charge. What is it going to hurt, you nothing but a moment of ego, the WTB, a lot of grief and confusion in an already very tenuous organization. Help that 1SG, take it off, when you go back to your unit put it on.

Response by CSM Danny S. made Feb 21 at 2020 8:56 AM

CSM Danny S. — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:56:39 -0500

The simple answer is do you have orders making you a MSG? Rank doesn't just come off because someone says so. There has to be an official action.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Feb 21 at 2020 9:07 AM

1SG Ernest Stull — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 09:07:38 -0500

Unless you have received orders rescinding your 1SGT. status from your command then you are still a 1SGT. But in your case why split hairs over rank be the better soldier and wear your MSG. Rank.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2020 9:30 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 09:30:22 -0500

Back in 2009 I worked as a squad leader in a WTB, your rank would not be a problem for us, our problem at times was, some higher ranking soldiers did not like having a squad leader who was a Staff Sergeant, my partner had a Captain and our Commander was a Major, so he ended up making the Captain report to him every morning because she would not listen to the squad leader. I had a Master Sergeant and a SFC in my squad but they realized my job was to help them thru the process and they worked with me, the Master Sergeant and I became good friends after that and still stay in contact.

Response by CSM Tom Satterly made Feb 21 at 2020 10:58 AM

CSM Tom Satterly — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:58:19 -0500

Ask yourself why you would push back
And is it worth it. If it brings you stress then let it go.

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made Feb 21 at 2020 11:56 AM

MSG Gary Eckert — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 11:56:01 -0500

From AR 600-8-19, it sounds like you should be a Master Sergeant if you either assigned or attached to the WTB unit or you are going to be there more than thirty days.

Para 7-11f.
A 1SG will be appointed to MSG when—
(1) Reassigned or attached to positions not authorized a 1SG.
(2) Detailed or attached to a duty that does not require a 1SG on other than a very short, interim basis (fewer than 30 days).

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Feb 21 at 2020 12:06 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 12:06:48 -0500

The Diamond goes with the position and is not a permanent rank. If you move from the 1SG slot, and are picked up by the WTB in a non-First Sergeant capacity the diamond stays with your old unit. Professional Courtesy would be for you to keep your diamond until your change of responsibility ceremony and you officially relinquish your position.
This is something you should take to your CSM and let them handle it.
Once you pass the flag to your replacement and have orders assigning you to the WTB then the First Sergeant is correct your Diamond goes away.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2020 12:42 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Feb 2020 12:42:20 -0500

I would say if theres a 1SG already in the company and your not in charge why would you though? It's not one of those ranks you were just because. Theres a reason why theres not first sergeants working in S3. It's because they aren't really in charge of a large group of people. Also, I wouldnt get caught up in a change of responsibility. I've seen times when companies didn't even do it. It didnt stop the unit readiness, didn't stop them from training, or deploying. It's a nice gesture I think it's more if a traditional thing with a regulation to tell you how to conduct one. I would say as long as your paycheck isnt touched things can be worked out.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2020 10:34 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 10:34:31 -0500

Questions & discussions like this are great. I’ll look into the regs and there’s probably a memo policy out there somewhere. Personally, I agree with 1SG A’s take. If WTU is a TDY position, I don’t see why you would have to remove it. I look at it as if a 1SG was at a school. You’re not the 1SG of that unit (WTU) but it's still your current rank.

Do 1SGs remove their diamond if they attend USASMA? (Real question, honestly don’t know).

Also, that do your Orders state when you were assigned/transferred there?

You could take the diamond off, but that’s not going help solve the real issue of actual policy. Nor, help determine what is “correct” for future situations.

Response by MSG Allan Davis made Feb 23 at 2020 4:53 PM

MSG Allan Davis — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 16:53:12 -0500

No absolutely not! WTB is not a punishment. It is not a leadership school. WTB is supposed to be there to assist soldiers. You need to take this up with your Company Commander. If you are at Ft Sam they HAVE BEEN TOLD ABOUT THIS.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 23 at 2020 5:28 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 17:28:39 -0500

Are you a patient at the WTB?

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made Feb 23 at 2020 8:38 PM

1SG Alan Boggs — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 20:38:31 -0500

Look at your transfer/assignment orders, what rank do they say you are? Thats the rank you wear.

Response by MSG Gerald Schembri made Feb 25 at 2020 7:32 PM

MSG Gerald Schembri — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 19:32:54 -0500

Tell him to show you the reg that states that,
then you'll remove it.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2020 6:34 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 06:34:15 -0500

So, if I remember correctly, if your still on your losing units books, then the new 1SG cant tell you much of what to do in terms of the rank removal. However, if you are on their books... then I assume they are only MTOEd one 1SG position and thus he could and should have you remove it.

Response by 1SG Michael Hargis made Feb 28 at 2020 9:16 AM

1SG Michael Hargis — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 09:16:11 -0500

A 4187 gave you the M identifier, and a 4187 can take it away.

Response by CSM Richard Montcalm made Feb 28 at 2020 10:09 PM

CSM Richard Montcalm — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 22:09:09 -0500

The appointing authority for 1SG is the Battalion Commander. If you are going back then tell the 1SG to contact him. If you aren't going back then your parent CoC should laterally appoint you back to MSG. A call to your CSM should help clear things up- he'll advise the BC on what should happen or he'll call the WTU CSM and tell him to have the 'no time in combat' 1SG to come to 'at ease in the harness'...

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Mar 1 at 2020 5:59 PM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Sun, 01 Mar 2020 17:59:52 -0500

Sounds like the company 1st sergeant is pretty insecure of his role. Very chicken sh__ to me.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2020 8:55 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Mar 2020 20:55:15 -0500

You are the 1SG until you are relieved, and you would receive orders indicating so.

Response by 1SG Jason Almond made Mar 3 at 2020 10:31 PM

1SG Jason Almond — Tue, 03 Mar 2020 22:31:24 -0500

Lots of great advice in this thread.

My focus would be- like many have stated, where are you on the UMR and what do your orders say?

If the unit 1SG is that upset about it- and it turns out to be the case that you are still the 1SG if your unit—-then I’d assume your presence won’t be required at any formation so as to not confuse anyone, correct?

Response by 1SG Philip Tacy made Mar 5 at 2020 8:43 AM

1SG Philip Tacy — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 08:43:01 -0500

Back in 1988 when I was promoted to E-8, my orders promoted me to E-8 First Sergeant not MSG. When I retired in 1991 my retirement orders had First Sergeant, and today on my ID card it has First Sergeant as well as all my military paperwork and VA paperwork.

Response by MSG Izy Veguillacruz made Mar 6 at 2020 8:15 PM

MSG Izy Veguillacruz — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 20:15:09 -0500

NO YOU DO NOT, if you are medically retired it will be as 1SG and as long as you are the 1SG of your unit it does not come off until a change of responsibility is done between you and the incoming 1SG.

Response by CSM Jim Corrin made Mar 10 at 2020 8:23 AM

CSM Jim Corrin — Tue, 10 Mar 2020 08:23:16 -0400

Sounds like the 1SG of the WTB doesn't have a lot to do.....

Response by MSG James Devereaux made Mar 14 at 2020 12:07 PM

MSG James Devereaux — Sat, 14 Mar 2020 12:07:21 -0400

There can only be one in a company. If you are the E8 in charge then you should remain a 1SG. At the end of the day it really doesn’t matter. MSG, 1SG, your LES is the same as well as responsibilities.

Response by CSM Michael Allen made Mar 15 at 2020 11:58 AM

CSM Michael Allen — Sun, 15 Mar 2020 11:58:28 -0400

Yes because you are no longer in the position of command...meaning you are not in a 1SG position

Response by MSG Michael Tribble made Mar 15 at 2020 4:30 PM

MSG Michael Tribble — Sun, 15 Mar 2020 16:30:40 -0400

If you are in a WTU then you are no longer the First Sergeant. if you are in WTU then you are no longer fit for duty. There is only one Soldier per unit that is allowed to wear the diamond. It only takes a memorandum from the brigade commander to rectify the situation. You as a senior NCO should recognize the OBVIOUS conflict of interest here. It’s totally unprofessional and quite frankly selfish of you to want to wear a diamond in another 1SG’s company. What if another Senior NCO did this to you? My advice is to stop being petty and take the diamond off. You will still retire as a First Sergeant. Enjoy your retirement.

Response by SGT Lenise Hamilton made Mar 16 at 2020 4:51 AM

SGT Lenise Hamilton — Mon, 16 Mar 2020 04:51:34 -0400

Hey Mr. Gun-Bunnie! Just think! if you were on active duty, would you wear your diamond? You always should want to lead-by-example, and set the standard, 24/7.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Mar 16 at 2020 8:37 AM

1SG Brian Adams — Mon, 16 Mar 2020 08:37:23 -0400

I do not believe it is mandatory for you to temporarily remove your diamond. But I think in the spirit of the situation, there is already one 1SG in the WTB. My answer is "No", you do not have to remove the diamond..! Hoooah!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2020 7:49 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 19:49:00 -0400

I would say I have two points I see from my foxhole. One, why are you, an active 1SG in the Army asking this type of silly ass question? You know what the AR says and you are temporarily assigned. Which brings me to my second point. Since you are on here at this rank, asking this question, it tells me that this other 1SG sees what I am reading. You’re weak sauce. Man the heck up and tell him to get bent or have YOUR commander change it. Man AND you’re an 11Z!

Response by SFC Barry Ives made Mar 25 at 2020 8:46 PM

SFC Barry Ives — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 20:46:00 -0400

It’s a duty position not a grade. If you are in WTB then your position is “patient” you do not necessarily have to have a change of responsibility to retire the diamond. Put that E-8 rank on with a smile.

Response by SSG Russell Watson made Mar 25 at 2020 10:05 PM

SSG Russell Watson — Wed, 25 Mar 2020 22:05:17 -0400

I don't know what the regs might say, but I'd say it is your call as to whether to remove the diamond or not.

After returning from Iraq in 07, I was volunteered to be a squad leader in the Fort Knox WTB. The vast majority of Soldiers there at that time were reserve component troops but there were a number of senior NCOs, ranging from SFC to SGM, both active and reserve, that needed to be there but none of them were assigned, only attached. They all ended up in my squad. None of these people lived in the barracks, they either already had quarters on or off post or were provided lodging somewhere.

I told my guys "You're a SFC/MSG/SGM in the US Army, tell me you're alive in the morning and again at the end of the day and take care of your business." You'll most likely be busy with a myriad of appointments so you most likely won't be "hanging around the company area" to confuse anyone and the Soldiers there should know who is part of the WTB chain of command and who isn't.

Response by MAJ Richard Pina made Mar 26 at 2020 8:26 AM

MAJ Richard Pina — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 08:26:38 -0400

What do your assigning orders say you rank is?

Response by SFC Richard E. Reader made Mar 26 at 2020 11:13 AM

SFC Richard E. Reader — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 11:13:42 -0400

Until you have orders for reassignment, the diamond cannot be removed, if you are in a Company and the ranking NCO member of that Command. Then, if you are in an administration unit the diamond must come off, and you NOW A Master Sergeant. Same pay grade, different responsibilities.

Response by SSG Matthew Underhill made Mar 27 at 2020 1:56 AM

SSG Matthew Underhill — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 01:56:50 -0400

As a Warrior in Transition there are two tracks. One is return to duty the other being transitioning from the military back to the civilian world. If you are assigned as a Warrior then you are technically no longer in the leadership position of Company/Troop/Battery 1SG. As such, the appropriate rank for you would be MSG. As far as latteral appointment authority and all of that you need to request to have a sit down with the CSM and talk ot out. While I was working as Cadre with a WTB for reserve and guard 1SG's we usually didn't kick up much dirt over it whereas AD usually wouldn't come to us as 1SG but as MSG. Ultimately if the CSM and BNCO want you to remove the diamond then I don't think there is much that can be done about it. WTB is a world unto itself. It can be quite a shock to the system especially if you are comming from the line.

Response by 1SG Diane Gicewicz made Mar 27 at 2020 2:58 PM

1SG Diane Gicewicz — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 14:58:30 -0400

Hopefully, it's not a personality issue. Quick story...my unit deployed and I was the 1SG, however, we were parceled out into smaller teams and I had to put MSG rank on. Not a big deal for me, I was very clear on the plan, pay was the same :) Even had more responsibilities, I think some people's approach and delivery may be a bit too direct. I hope it all works out for you and thank you for your service.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Mar 27 at 2020 6:16 PM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 18:16:25 -0400

My response is only my opinion. I am old school Marine Corps and have no idea what WTB means. Never encountered it. If you are an E-8 (1st Sgt) how can you be told to remove a symbol of that rank even if you are not the staff NCO in charge. As long as you are not challenging the individual who has the responsibility and authority for the unit. I have been in units where there have been multiple NCO's. Everyone had their assigned position and no one was confused about who the one in charge was.

Response by CW4 Rodney Burnett made Mar 28 at 2020 7:42 AM

CW4 Rodney Burnett — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 07:42:51 -0400

Why do you senior NCOs always think everything is a dick measuring contest?

Response by MSG Daniel Telles made Mar 28 at 2020 9:31 AM

MSG Daniel Telles — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 09:31:39 -0400

First there are only one 1SG in a unit. Nothing else should be said, if you are the 1SG of the unit you are assigned you wear the Diamond or you are filling a MSG position and you loss your Diamond. It is real simple You are a !SG of the unit or You are not.

Response by SFC John Fourquet made Mar 29 at 2020 11:26 PM

SFC John Fourquet — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 23:26:47 -0400

You are now assigned to another unit that has a 1SG. You need to remove the diamond.

Response by 1SG Chad Mcdaniel made Mar 29 at 2020 11:34 PM

1SG Chad Mcdaniel — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 23:34:16 -0400

It's more of a question of what position are you in, not a 4187. I was a 1SG, did a change of responsibility and soon as I was no longer in that position I took the diamond off. Fast forward three years I was placed in a 1SG position as a temporary fill in. The person I replaced was a SFC so no change of responsibility (not that one is authorized anymore for 1SGs). My CSM told me I could not put the diamond back on because it was a temporary position. At the end of the day I was rated as a 1SG and for the six months I served in that position. I tell you all this to say my CSM was wrong because I was in an MTOE 1SG position. But here's the bottom line I was like whatever because when I retired I retired as a 1SG and not a MSG because I was given the "M" identifier way back in 2011 when I wore the diamond and it was on my ERB. Make sure you have the identifier and when you retire you can be 1SG all day regardless of position.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Mar 30 at 2020 2:34 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 14:34:40 -0400

Sounds like some one messed up. Any S/M that is sent to a WTB is supposed to completely separate from there past unit. If you have orders removing from for past unit.
so your slot can be filled, And the unit can be mission ready.
Now if you have orders puting you in WTB, You are no longer a 1SG.
You still hold your pay grade, Just not the position.
However you should be treated with the respect of you grade.
Now there is a big stick in the gears with your case.
Since you are National Guard. There are at ton of Regulations that are different from the regular Army.
you may want to check with Jag on this one.
Question : Are you in your home state? ,And are you AGR? these things makes a difference.

Response by 1SG Wayne Cannon made Apr 5 at 2020 7:31 PM

1SG Wayne Cannon — Sun, 05 Apr 2020 19:31:44 -0400

I would say NO, They would have to have a legal reason. You were given that diamond on a set of orders. It would take orders to remove them. When i retired i went to out processing and all my paperwork had Master Sergeant on them. I raised hell, asked the SFC incharge who the hell demoted me. He said i wasn't demoted Master SGT and First Sergeant was the same pay grade. I told him i was promoted to First Sergeant and i worked damn hard for that DIAMOND and my shit better be changed. I took a leadership position, not a non leadership position. Not meaning any disrespect to any master Sergeants because yes alot or most were in leadership positions. But i also knew alot that were ROAD also. Thats how i got my first, First Sergeant position as a SFC. 4 in a maintenance Bn. Refused that position. So when i was promoted to E-8 i was already in a First Sergeant position. So I'm pretty sure he can't take your diamond without a set of orders. Years ago you wore your rank during Ranger School. But they let you know it meant nothing in that school. It was an understanding. We use to get ranger candidates waiting for training to start or other reasons for details at Ft. Benning. We'd get officer down to clean our building. Our building NCOIC put a major mopping the bathrooms. Ok, some examples of keeping your diamond.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Apr 10 at 2020 12:28 AM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:28:47 -0400

Respectfully, I don't know much about 1SG or who designates them. I do know that 1SG is self explanatory; there's only one. In your case I would go to that person and ask them what you should do; then comply with whatever they tell or order you to do.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2020 9:01 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 09:01:34 -0400

I have never had this issue when I was in transition, all of the 1GTs I delt with were for the most part ok with me wearing my Diamond, Everyone at the WTC or other units I was in and out of knew who the 1SG of that unit was, I was never aske to remove my well earned Diamond.

Response by CPT Derek Wren made Apr 21 at 2020 12:51 AM

CPT Derek Wren — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 00:51:27 -0400

I’ve got to agree with those on here that posted information pertaining to AR regulations. Unless the BC and CSM have gone through and put someone else in your place and you were no longer an E8 serving in a leadership capacity and proper paperwork has been done then you are still your units first sergeant. At the W to you or anywhere else, regardless of location you would not see me taking off my CPT bars Because the unit had a company commander. Hill and the WT you while I was there years ago we had a full bird colonel, the brigade commander did not come down and ask the Byrd to be taken off so I’m not sure why in the world this 1SG is requesting this. Believe someone asked, have you sat down and spoken with this person one on one off-line to get a feel as to why they’re asking this of you? If you were showing up and getting in a formation there should be no reason or issue with you wearing the rank. If I can stand in formation as a 0-3 next To an 0-5 with an E-6 or 1LT leading the formation and we’re giving out information then there’s no reason you should touch your rank. You busted your ass to get it so until properly removed or relieved of your position you are still in that position. Just my two cents, these other CSM‘s and MSG‘s probably have a better sense of the senior enlisted mindset and or mentality. Good luck Top.

Response by SGM(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2020 2:10 PM

SGM(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:10:50 -0400

Whos unit are you assigned? If you have been transferred on the 162 then you are no longer the 1SG of your previous company. If you are still on the units books and performing 1SG duties, then I would say no they cant make you remove it.

Response by MSG Al Aguilar made Apr 24 at 2020 6:44 PM

MSG Al Aguilar — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:44:39 -0400

As long as you have the orders for the rank, you can wear it. You hold the rank, not the slot in WTB.

Response by Sgt Jonathan Heinich made Apr 30 at 2020 8:47 AM

Sgt Jonathan Heinich — Thu, 30 Apr 2020 08:47:45 -0400

That's among the most retarded attempts in the name of vanity I've ever heard of... You earned the rank and went the administrative route then there are only two things that can remove that diamond, demotion or promotion. Regardless of the Unit, Company First Sgt. Is not a rank it is a billeted position, and a Gunny is qualified to fill that billet. If he doesn't like you being equal rank it is probably because he doesn't want you to have visually equal authority and that in itself shows he shouldn't be in that position, since the billet provides the authority his power hungry ass is looking for. My platoon rated a Master Guns

Response by SFC Daniel Eliseuson made May 3 at 2020 5:30 PM

SFC Daniel Eliseuson — Sun, 03 May 2020 17:30:20 -0400

Chain of command, first up the ladder.... “ya pull a chain, not push !!!”

Response by SGT Law Marshall made May 4 at 2020 1:00 PM

SGT Law Marshall — Mon, 04 May 2020 13:00:08 -0400

It comes across as a Ego thing. Every First Sergeant I personally knew was very happy to remove their diamond when their time was up. They were delighted not to be dealing with an entire company of personal issues. Wearing your diamond is undermining the authority of the actual 1SG. Drop your diamond and keep it moving. Same scenario as a CPL who is no longer in a leadership role without DA orders and doesn't want to go back to SPC rank. Enjoy your time is up and ride off into the sunset.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2020 3:27 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 May 2020 15:27:14 -0400

If you are assigned to the WTB, you have to take it off. If you are attached to the WTB and are still slotted in the First Sergeant position at your assigned unit, you can wear it. This happens with virtually all ARNG First Sergeants.

Response by 1SG James R. made May 4 at 2020 8:11 PM

1SG James R. — Mon, 04 May 2020 20:11:38 -0400

Refer to your orders promoting you to E-8 1SG. Removing the "diamond" is not as simple as just taking if off. You would be out of uniform since your orders, I presume you were promoted to 1SG, promoted you to E-8 1SG. To remove the rank of 1SG would require an order to do so.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made May 5 at 2020 12:41 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Tue, 05 May 2020 00:41:42 -0400

Sounds pretty simple to me but I’m an outsider because Marine Corps approach to this is way easier.

If you are appointed as a 1sgtSgt by your Command that is your truth until otherwise designated by your Command or higher station. Some random cat on the street doesn’t get to make that call no matter how bad his Jimmy’s are rustled.

Just focus on your business. Good luck

Response by 1SG Moises Lopez made May 5 at 2020 6:44 PM

1SG Moises Lopez — Tue, 05 May 2020 18:44:08 -0400

First of ALL what is WTB

Response by SFC James High made May 6 at 2020 8:48 AM

SFC James High — Wed, 06 May 2020 08:48:49 -0400

The WTU 1SG can tell you that you can't wear the Diamond, but that doesn't make it so. If I remember correctly a Company CDR can't even promote or demote an E7 or above, that has to be the BN CDR. So before anything happens it will have to be fully vetted through the BN S1 for it to be. So you may still be allowed to wear your Diamond regardless of who it offends. Regs are Regs!

Response by GySgt Richard McCrary made May 7 at 2020 1:03 PM

GySgt Richard McCrary — Thu, 07 May 2020 13:03:37 -0400

Call me silly, but I am a bit confused here. As a retired Marine I was under the impression that the Army, like the Marines, had two different senior enlisted tracks, one technical and one administrative. In the Marines we had 1stSgt's and Msgt's also, both E8's and they would go on to be SgtMaj's and MGySgt's, both E9's. One can not just switch from a 1stSgt to Msgt, they are totally different career tracks, is it not the same in the Army?

Response by MSgt Harold Harris made May 7 at 2020 2:57 PM

MSgt Harold Harris — Thu, 07 May 2020 14:57:56 -0400

Wish I could help you with some facts, but I have none. However, I believe that the Commander can make decisions concerning the military uniform. It may be that he does not wish to try and explain which one of you is the 1st Sgt. But then again, I was in the Air Force and this is Army and since I know nothing of their regulations, I should keep my opinions to myself 1SG.

Response by 1SG Clay Hahr made May 8 at 2020 12:36 PM

1SG Clay Hahr — Fri, 08 May 2020 12:36:59 -0400

I was in Med Hold for 18 months after an injury in Iraq in 2005, I was a 1SG at the time of my injury and returned back to Ft Bragg and I never had an issue with maintaining my 1SG recognition as long as I respected the 1SG that was in charge of the Med Hold. We showed each other mutual respect and military courtesy for our positions.

Response by 1SG Clay Hahr made May 8 at 2020 12:44 PM

1SG Clay Hahr — Fri, 08 May 2020 12:44:16 -0400

I was injured in Iraq and returned to Ft Bragg and assigned to the Med Hold unit during my surgeries and recovery. My orders were issued reassigning me to the Med Hold unit as 1SG Hahr, so I maintained my 1SG designation throughout my time in Med Hold (14 months). While assigned there the units 1SG and myself showed each other mutual military courtesy and respect that our rank and positions deserved. With that being said I would not see an issue with you maintaining your assigned rank while being assigned to the WTB. 1SG (R) Clay Hahr

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2020 8:29 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 May 2020 20:29:41 -0400

I would say YES. And WHY is a 1st sgt wearing a diamond. Ur in a medical unit from what I can find out. U can swallow it poke ur self with it. And Hey guess What ur NOT in Ur unit u ARE IN HIS so u will obey orders. Heck u trying to get to wear it PROVES to me ur a cry baby and not mature enough for the rank and should be not only demoted but removed from the position u hold at ur other company. Where do u kids not understand professional conduct.

Response by MAJ Charles Cozzens made May 8 at 2020 8:54 PM

MAJ Charles Cozzens — Fri, 08 May 2020 20:54:11 -0400

Someone feels threaten or is insecure to tell a fellow Sr NCO to remove the diamond. What about the green tabs as well? We must have bigger fish to fry than this. That diamond is almost a star.Leave it alone.

Response by 1SG Carlos E Bonet made May 8 at 2020 9:23 PM

1SG Carlos E Bonet — Fri, 08 May 2020 21:23:46 -0400

Same principle applies to the CSM and the SGM, if the WTB CSM has a problem with the CSM while he or she is assigned temporarily (for medical reasons) to the WTB. WTB is like a military school where rank does not have the supervisory effect. You there to take care of yourself. Regardless of your rank, it should not interfere with the WTB daylight ops. WTB has to be accountable of you and has to make sure that your making your appointments. Now, is you have a leadership position in the WTB you shouldn’t have problems leading your soldiers to there appointments and accountability, regardless of their rank. Keeping in mind the need to remain professional at all times, considering the rank of the soldier that you’re talking to.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2020 8:36 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 May 2020 08:36:58 -0400

You were given appointment orders therefore they should be revoked. Are you assigned to the WTU? What’s the point of holding onto the diamond? If you are retiring you will retain the title if you meet the requirements.

Response by SSG David Angell made May 10 at 2020 7:29 AM

SSG David Angell — Sun, 10 May 2020 07:29:05 -0400

You transitioned to another unit..They did not transition the diamond. The diamond/1st Sgt ranking is a position within the unit. The unit already had a 1SG, when you came into the unit. If its a temporary position, then the diamond comes off. When you go back to your old unit, where you were 1SG then you will probably get it back, with the headaches that goes with it.

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made May 10 at 2020 12:08 PM

Sgt Charles Welling — Sun, 10 May 2020 12:08:37 -0400

Your rank is 1st Sgt. You are not a MSgt. I know little about the Army, I am a Marine. However, this issue makes NO SENSE. There must be a commanding officer and you must have a right to use him if needed................ DO IT!!
.
As a side note, I have been reading posts here for years and I have to say, the vast majority of the silly, inane nonsense posted here comes out of the US Army.................

Response by CW3 Sean Feely made May 10 at 2020 5:26 PM

CW3 Sean Feely — Sun, 10 May 2020 17:26:40 -0400

The real question would be "Who is in charge"? The answer is HIM.. while you are in that unit. He has no authority to request you wear MSG. Not how it works! He should know that. Just let him know you are aware who signs your pass form but you actually have the same job as him and a certain level or respect has to be to expected both ways. If he isn't comfortable with the fact you are sporting the diamond it means he has an inferior complex. Good luck and try to stay professional.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2020 10:17 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 May 2020 22:17:39 -0400

Having served as a 1SG for three years in a WTU at Ft. Carson it will depend on their orders. I had an Infantry 1SG come to the unit on temporary duty orders. He had come back from Iraq for a week to get his himself together after losing some of his troops. He left to go back when the orders were complete. Total time there, 3 days before going back to the fight and finishing his tour. On the other hand, I had a 1SG assigned to the unit permanently until released from the Army. He wasn't serving in a 1SG position and therefore wasn't allowed to wear the diamond. He argued the same point. I told him if he wanted to wear the diamond go back to his old unit, but as long as he was assigned to my company he would remove the diamond. The last guy I had was an SF 1SG from 10th Group. He was terminal and only had 1 week left in the Army when he came to the unit. I didn't have him remove his diamond because he was 5 days short of being out and he was in appointments all day and clearing. It was a mute point for me. He was medically retired as a 1SG. It will depend on the situation. The question is are you on permanent orders assigning you to the WTU with the intent of leaving the Army medically? If so, the diamond will come off. Hope this helps you going forward and good luck with the WTU experience.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2020 4:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 May 2020 16:18:26 -0400

1SG I am a squad leader at the WTB at Ft Hood and I have been there close to 2 years and we have had multiple 1SG come through the WTU there and they all were allowed to keep their diamonds

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made May 16 at 2020 6:27 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Sat, 16 May 2020 18:27:49 -0400

If you are still a member of your unit and only temporarily assigned to the WTB tell him no and put the ball back in his court.

Response by 1SG Patrick McKelvey made May 17 at 2020 8:52 AM

1SG Patrick McKelvey — Sun, 17 May 2020 08:52:40 -0400

I understand your dilemma...was TDY to OCS while I was a 1SG of a line unit in the NG. Told the Commander the day I arrived that I had MSG rank with me and intended to wear it as such. He was horrified and insisted it would not be a problem to wear my rank. My comment at the time was , " You have a 1SG here Sir. I know who I am, and my parent unit, soldier's and chain of command know who I am. I'm here to teach train mold and mentor the FLoA (Future Lieutenants of America lol). I wont need the confusion of 2 Diamonds to do that." He insisted it wouldn't be a problem. I met the 1SG and all I can say is well, they had a 1SG there and it wasn't me. It was my choice, and no one expected me to (my CO at the time laughed his ass off and asked I was now a SPC-8), nor could I ever find regulation to address such situations that REQUIRED me to do so. A 2LT in HQ S3 said to me one day, " Excuse me SGT, your mail says 1SG on it and you're not a 1SG, you're not in that duty position here." I declined to sit in on the COs counseling session for that youngster but reports from the E4 Mafia are that it was epic. BLUF if you're in a WTA keep it on if you want to, if the 1SG is so weak that people confuse you for him that's his problem not yours. If he's asking politely to minimize confusion within a unit that has a high turnover rate and influx of soldiers with administrative questions ask yourself " If I was in his boots WTF would I do?" One Retired 1SG opinion via a Storyfeller example...

Response by SSG Jorge G Haddock-Santiago made Jul 22 at 2020 11:26 PM

SSG Jorge G Haddock-Santiago — Wed, 22 Jul 2020 23:26:12 -0400

...to be in a Warrior Transition Unit, you will need orders assigning you to the unit. The Doctor will diagnosed the individual to be “Unfit for duty” and a matrix gets completed to determine the number of medical appointments needed per week. This matrix is the deciding factor between getting assigned to the WTU or RTD. Once the individual scores are beyond the limits, orders are cut, and your previous unit will take you off their books. A new MSG will assume responsibility of the unit. I was assigned to the WTU and I was surrounded with MSG Wounded Warriors. Not 1SG Wounded Warriors.

Response by PO2 James Oss made Jul 31 at 2020 9:51 PM

PO2 James Oss — Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:51:13 -0400

That takes some thinking about. It didn't seem that complicated in the Coast Guard.

Response by SGM Rafael Caraballo made Aug 19 at 2020 9:28 PM

SGM Rafael Caraballo — Wed, 19 Aug 2020 21:28:21 -0400

As a 1SG you should that answer. Only 2 ways you loose your diamond. Change of responsibility or you f’d up and got released from you position.

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made Nov 10 at 2020 10:01 PM

MSG Reid Zohfeld — Tue, 10 Nov 2020 22:01:19 -0500

If you let a WTU 1st Sgt demote you then you deserve it You are on TDY to WTU until treatment or is decided I also was at WTU They pretty much left me alone as rank file was concerned
I would bet neither liked the term Top because it sounds like you both love power

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2020 2:18 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Nov 2020 14:18:36 -0500

I was never "Forced" to remove my Diamond while in transition but I did so in respect to the actual assigned 1SG my pay never changed and upon leaving the WTB I pinned the Diamond back on unless I received new appointment orders moving me back to MSG,

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2020 9:55 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 09:55:01 -0500

If you are in transition out of your old unit then they have a new 1SG on board which means you know your "diamond" is no longer valid. Out of respect to the WTB 1SG you should have removed it on your own accord. 1SG is the lateral appointment from Master Sergeant there is no lateral appointment "back" to Master Sergeant. You have a COR and are relieved of your duty assignment as a 1SG, you're still an E-8 paygrade no change in pay.

Response by 1SG Rick Seekman made Dec 18 at 2020 10:46 PM

1SG Rick Seekman — Fri, 18 Dec 2020 22:46:19 -0500

Fuck him! He cannot demote you

Response by CSM David Porterfield made Dec 22 at 2020 12:58 PM

CSM David Porterfield — Tue, 22 Dec 2020 12:58:54 -0500

I'm sure someone already posted this. If you're detailed away from your company you wear MSG. The diamond means your a 1SG in your unit not in another. As a First Sergeant I was sent to Iraq with the intent to return to my company and took the Diamond off. When I returned to my unit I put it back on. Same for CSMs. 1SG and CSM's are leadership roles only in your assigned unit not a permanent rank.

Response by 1SG Gerald Schroeder made Dec 28 at 2020 3:38 PM

1SG Gerald Schroeder — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 15:38:16 -0500

As a retired HR, (42A), 1SG and a former soldier assigned to a WTB while pending MEB. I can tell you with certainty that unless you are assigned / reassigned to the WTB you need not remove your diamond. As far as I know you will not find any regulatory guidance on this. But rest assured as long as you are currently assigned to your parent organization where you are slotted as the 1SG you are good. But if you are assigned / reassigned to the WTB you are no longer authorized to wear the diamond as you not in a 1SG position.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Dec 28 at 2020 5:32 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 17:32:01 -0500

It is not a good idea to have a diamond as part of the WTU. You should have your losing unit expedite your lateral orders out of respect for the WTU 1SG. Running a anybujitbus challenging, imagine dealing with Soldiers going to you for guidance and support. Mentoring is one thing, however Sokdiers are “slick”, where you think they are simply looking for guidance, they will play you against him. This is only one scenario, it is not a good fit. Could you imagine two CSMs in a Battalion. Get the lateral approved an take off the diamond.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2020 12:59 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 00:59:19 -0500

I am only a E4 in the Army, but from what I understand like the Specialist/Corporal deal you are placed in a leadership position by direct or lateral orders. Therefore, the same applies to a 1SG they are placed there in that position through orders and must receive a set of orders to relinquish that position and rank back to MSG or if they have attended SGM Academy then be promoted to that rank. In the Reserves we have 1SG positions filled from SSG all the way to MSG I have even seen promoted SM in a 1SG slot by order of a commander. So to answer your question it is best to check your ERB, Personnel Records, MILPO and any orders relinquishing your position or rank through your immediate commander and battalion commander. Last of all there should be a change of responsibility order between you and the new 1SG taking your position. If not then you are still the 1SG, the same as when a commander must do a change of responsibility order before they relinquish a command. Heck 20 years in my Rank I have paid attention.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2020 12:25 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 12:25:03 -0500

Orders determines position, place and rank; no orders no lateral. I had a CSM in WTU for almost 2 years after a deployment; it took a BDE CSM to get him transferred to WTU out of that slot so he could promote another. WTU Soldiers still hold the unit slot until transferred last I heard and have seen myself. Army changes all the time, this is a at least a BDE S1 question for sure.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2021 11:40 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2021 11:40:57 -0500

An E-8 is an E-8. Most likely orders or 4187 assigning the Soldier to WTB say MSG. Unless you're a company 1SG within one of the WTB companies, you'd wear MSG. Keep a uniform with 1SG so you can do your COR...that's on your CO/BN to take care of. Bottom line, if you're assigned (not attached) to WTB, you're a MSG. Get yourself straight, take care of you, and get the hell out of WTB so you can start doing army stuff.

And no...WTB 1SG's really don't have anything to do...I was an ST (Soldier in Transition) not too long ago...I feel your pain. If that 1SG is so threatened by you wearing a diamond, he probably shouldn't be the 1SG. If he is doing his job, everyone will know who the CO 1SG is...

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2021 3:46 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 15:46:49 -0500

I was assigned to WTU for about 90 days and was never questioned about my CSM rank. I did have an office call with the WTU CSM who introduced himself which was more of protocol focused. I feel in during time calls and was responsible for myself. I believe all E8 and up were quartered separately and maybe E7 also.
I'm with you on checking the regulation and if that's a problem to the WTU 1SG, ask for a meeting with the CSM.

Response by 1SG Angello Gordon made Feb 9 at 2021 1:54 AM

1SG Angello Gordon — Tue, 09 Feb 2021 01:54:36 -0500

You should remember that a 1SG is a position and if you are not in that position, you wearing that diamond will confuse the soldiers in the ranks. Do your 1SG favor and change that to MSG until you get back to your unit. The pay is the same.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Feb 23 at 2021 10:51 AM

1SG Harold Piet — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 10:51:15 -0500

As a 1Sg, (retired in 1995) I understand it to be by your duty assignment. While assigned as a 1SG I wore the diamond but when transferred to an MSG position removed my diamond. If not assigned yet. Wear it.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Feb 23 at 2021 11:30 AM

SSG Bill McCoy — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:30:14 -0500

I have no actual idea what is, or is not right. That said however, if my orders to the WTB (whatever that is - I've been out since Dec '78) list me as a 1SG, then I'd wear the diamond. Conversely, if t hey say MSG ... so be it. Another thought - what rank is on your ID card?

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made Feb 23 at 2021 12:45 PM

SSG Byron Hewett — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 12:45:51 -0500

Its just like if you go to a school house you still carry that rank even at the school your just not in the same capacity at the school like you are with your unit you are still able to wear the rank you are just not in that position of a 1sgt, you would and are just another senior NCO with the rank of 1SGT just not currently with your unit in that capacity but you can wear it you just don't operate in that functional capacity while there.
Had a similar situation crop up while I was at Wounded Warrior Battalion at FT Lewis-McCord in 2011 that guy wore his and nothing was ever said they just put him to work as regular Senior NCO.
There is also nothing in the regulations or policies and no guidance give on this either because you are still the 1sgt of your unit and you are basically on a temporary duty order because you are not permanently assigned.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 23 at 2021 1:41 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 13:41:13 -0500

I think I would drop the diamond out of respect for the WTB 1SG since you aren't in the role of 1SG at WTB. When going back to your unit put it back on.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Feb 23 at 2021 2:29 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 14:29:55 -0500

I have no filter so here is my opinion: That man needs to get laid.
"Adrian Cronauer: You are in more dire need of a blowjob than any white man in history."

Response by 1SG Steven Imerman made Feb 23 at 2021 3:17 PM

1SG Steven Imerman — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 15:17:10 -0500

I've been out 24 years, so I have no idea of the current rules. However, a story. When I got very ill as a 1SG and ended up evacuated to Brooke Army Hospital for treatment and processing out, I signed into the Med Hold Company there. I was certain I would have to change my rank, but it turned out they did not have a 1SG at the moment, so my Med Hold detail, when I was not at appointments, was to be the Med Hold 1SG. Didn't have to buy any MSG insignia, and technically, anything special I wanted to do had to be approved by me. It was a pretty sweet deal, even though I was only "acting" and in no way official, and it helped out both the captain of Med Hold Co and the hospital CSM.

Response by 1SG Daniel Sutczak made Feb 23 at 2021 6:03 PM

1SG Daniel Sutczak — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:03:52 -0500

The rank of First Sergeant and the diamond that goes with it, is appointed by the commander (normally the battalion/ squadron commander). The appointment can be nulled simply by a mere PCS. And, going to the Warrior Transition Battalion would be considered a PCS. In fact, you may have had to saddle Master Sergeant rank several times after selection. I digress. At the end of your road, as an E8, you can be emblazoned as First Sergeant, Retired, at your option. Yup! once you get the ‘M’ identifier ONCE! It’s yours... until promoted, retired or, demoted.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2021 6:46 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 18:46:52 -0500

Once you receive the lateral to MSG it is official. However, often WTU has a 1SG already and to prevent confusion among the ranks it is a courtesy to remove the diamond, but not a requirement.

Response by MSG Don H. made Feb 23 at 2021 7:50 PM

MSG Don H. — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 19:50:53 -0500

I am in the Fort Hood SRU (Soldier recovery unit- the new name for the WTU) We have a couple of 1SGs, CSMs and MSGs. I am a MSG, I was a 1SG before I was deployed but me and the other two MSGs took off our diamonds because we weren't a full company when we deployed to OIR theater. Once I was assigned to the SRU my unit moved me out of the 1SG slot, I am going to be med boarded so it doesn't bother me. My promotion order for SFC to E-8 was to MSG first and then a lateral assignment to 1SG, the way I see it is that MSG is a rank, 1SG is a position.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Feb 23 at 2021 8:47 PM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Tue, 23 Feb 2021 20:47:19 -0500

Sounds like if you are going to play in my sandbox, you do as I say.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2021 5:32 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 17:32:14 -0500

Not being Army (and not even knowing what WTB is), I can't comment on whether it's within his power or not... but I CAN say that it's helluva petty. That 1SG seems to have no concept of professional courtesy to fellow senior NCOs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2021 4:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 16:28:38 -0500

Command Directed Move. You're holding up a slot for promotion, especially if it looks like you'll be med boarded out. You will still be 1SG when medically retired

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2021 4:46 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 16:46:36 -0500

Since your in the WTU, you are a patient, not in charge of anyone. Just like any officer. You're in a medical hold unit and should never be asked to remove it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2021 4:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 16:52:19 -0500

BtW...If you're being medically retired and are on the E9 promotion list, you can be promoted at out-processing. Make sure you ask about that.

Response by MSG Bob S made Mar 17 at 2021 10:16 AM

MSG Bob S — Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:16:33 -0400

Answer these questions:

1. What tank is noted on your orders?
2. Is it worth the stress and “attention” your about to receive?

Response by SGT Everett Fray made Mar 18 at 2021 9:04 AM

SGT Everett Fray — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:04:46 -0400

I was just an Sgt. E-5 (P) when I separated. (1992) According to the regulation at that time, E-8 rank was MSG, E-9 was SGM. The rank of First Sergeant is E-8, which carries the designation of the diamond, which at the company level. A E-8 can hold the E-9 SGM slot at battalion level, but not wear the designator STAR without the orders.

Response by SGT Ivan Igitol made Mar 31 at 2021 7:35 PM

SGT Ivan Igitol — Wed, 31 Mar 2021 19:35:22 -0400

When I was sent to WTB, I had 1SGs and Officers fall in formation as a platoon while an E6 or an E7 takes charge of the platoon. The respect is there for the ranks but none of them had to take off any. You're in formation to get accountability and informations, then you go your merry way to appointments and what not.

Response by SSG Conrad Sylvestrelamb made Apr 5 at 2021 4:39 PM

SSG Conrad Sylvestrelamb — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 16:39:07 -0400

MSG it is until you return to your unit
Take the R and R . Chillax

Response by 1SG Kenneth McClurg made Apr 9 at 2021 9:49 AM

1SG Kenneth McClurg — Fri, 09 Apr 2021 09:49:53 -0400

When I was getting ready to retire in 1996, I was actually a 1SG but was wearing MSG out of respect for our 1SG. When they were doing my retirement orders they asked if I wanted to retire as a MSG or 1SG, I chose to retire as a 1SG. It takes orders to put the diamond in and it takes orders to take it out.

Response by SSG Deboris Claiborne made Apr 20 at 2021 7:11 PM

SSG Deboris Claiborne — Tue, 20 Apr 2021 19:11:25 -0400

What does your orders and ID say?

Response by 1SG Ed Pablo made May 9 at 2021 12:50 PM

1SG Ed Pablo — Sun, 09 May 2021 12:50:33 -0400

When I was promoted to E-8 I was re-asigned to a different unit with orders appointing me to the Rank of First Sargent and an MOS with Z5M identifier as in 67Z5M in that unit, and every transfer there after was always to a unit as a First Sargent. That was over 20 years ago. I don't know if its still the same today. In my observation today I see some first Sargents that has lost their identity by the appearance of their unit and area.

Response by 1SG Ed Hewitt made May 26 at 2021 3:29 PM

1SG Ed Hewitt — Wed, 26 May 2021 15:29:28 -0400

When I retired I was replaced as 1SGT of my unit almost a year out from retirement. My retirement orders reflected my status as First Sergeant and I retained my status until retirement even serving in administrative roles. I would think they would have to relieve you from your position and administratively reduce you to Master Sergeant BUT I am not current on the regulations anymore... I would think the first O-5 or O-6 in your chain of command would have to cause that to happen. The order for that reduction would come thru personnel the same as your award of the identifier(use to be M) as First Sergeant..
Hope this helps you.

Response by 1SG Jason Almond made Jan 7 at 2022 3:05 PM

1SG Jason Almond — Fri, 07 Jan 2022 15:05:35 -0500

Also- regardless of any unit policy—you are not authorized to wear any rank other than what your promotion/ position orders say.

A corporal can’t just decide to wear specialist rank, right? And just like the MSG’s can’t just wear the diamond— you can’t “just take it off.” Every single item on a uniform has orders behind it.

Response by MSG David Lambert made Jan 8 at 2022 1:22 PM

MSG David Lambert — Sat, 08 Jan 2022 13:22:54 -0500

When you hold the position under orders you are that rank and title. When you transfer out of the unit and are no longer a unit 1SG, the you will receive new orders for a lateral transfer to the rank of MSG. You still retain the M designator on your MOS. eg 32Z5M

Response by MSG Victor Milasus made Apr 9 at 2022 5:58 PM

MSG Victor Milasus — Sat, 09 Apr 2022 17:58:29 -0400

The diamond is worn by the position and line number. If you are in transition; it should not be an issue until your next duty position.