Can a 1SG write a policy revoking all passes unless they are requested for a weekend that is already a 3 or 4-day weekend?

SGT Matt Haase — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 10:44:09 -0400

So this might sound like an odd question, but I've read through the AR and haven't been able to find a solid answer that I can use to argue it. Can a 1SG write a policy revoking all passes unless they are requested for a weekend that is already a 3 or 4 day? From what I've read it's the Commanders program, and considering that they are meant to be used for multiple purposes to include morale and rewards, doesn't it defeat the purpose of the entire system? If anyone could give me some clarification on this I would greatly appreciate it.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2016 11:01 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 11:01:41 -0400

That's a new one. Never heard of this being done.

Response by SFC John Hill made Jul 27 at 2016 11:20 AM

SFC John Hill — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 11:20:58 -0400

1SG's do not write policy, the enforce it. Commanders write and approve (sign) unit policy letters, i.e. pass policy. The Unit Commander is the approving authority for passes.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2016 12:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 12:24:13 -0400

Honestly, no policy letter really has to be written. A pass is a privilege not a right. Everyone has the right to take leave, and generally passes are for going outside of the immediate area that you are allotted to travel i.e. 400 miles, 250, etc.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2016 12:42 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 12:42:06 -0400

A First Sergeant will occasionally write policy for the commander to review and sign, but ultimately passes are the commander's call.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2016 1:00 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 13:00:27 -0400

Most likely what's happening is the 1SG drafted the policy for the commander to sign; that, or the CO directed the 1SG to create said policy. Either way, any such policy would ultimately be coming from the commander, not the 1SG (enforcer of standards, not establisher, yadda yadda).

Additionally, no such policy should even be truly necessary other than to make subordinates aware of the commander's intent. The message he/she is sending pretty clearly comes across as "No passes will be approved," given that any pre-existing 3/4-day weekend wouldn't typically need a pass.

There could be a host of different reasons for doing such a thing (upcoming mission requirements, gross punitive measure to improve discipline, etc.) but ultimately the commander is well within his/her rights to revoke any and all passes should they choose to do so. It's kind of a crummy thing to do, given how powerful of a motivational tool passes can be, but it's a decision that's certainly within the commander's domain.

As far as recourses go, if you truly think it's an unfair policy that's detrimental to soldier welfare and readiness, then phrase it that way to a superior. Start with PSG/1SG and work your way up. There's a small chance that the 1SG doesn't agree with the policy either. If not, then go to the CSM. Remember, your argument should NOT come across as "I want passes because this is unfair", but rather make the point of passes being a useful motivational tool that, when underutilized, can damage morale and unit readiness.

Good luck, SGT, hope it works out.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2016 1:38 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 13:38:28 -0400

Commanders have policy letters not 1SG's, so in that aspect no. However, if the Commander wants to restrict passes to regularly scheduled holidays, donzas, etc, they have the authority to do so. Divisions/installations can have policy letters outlining guidelines for leave and passes however if you read the regulation AR 600-8-10, the Company/Battery Commander is the approving authority. Ultimately it is his or her Unit and manpower.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Jul 27 at 2016 3:38 PM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 15:38:35 -0400

NCOs enforce policy, we do not write it. Your 1SG might be the author but your commander has to sign off on it. There by becoming your commanders policy not the 1SG's.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jul 27 at 2016 5:37 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Wed, 27 Jul 2016 17:37:26 -0400

Who signed on the Bottom of this policy? as stated by others, NCO's enforce but do not make policy. A good commander will ask his/her 1SG for his/her opinion based upon his/her years of service and experience.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2016 1:24 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 01:24:22 -0400

First the 1SG cannot write any policies, the only person authorized to write policy would be the commander. It is the 1SG job to enforce them, he can advise the commander on which policies to write. Also i will say if the commander did write a policy on thia topic you might want to use his open door policy to discuss with him because this seems a little bit over board.

Response by 1SG Paul DeStout made Jul 28 at 2016 10:05 AM

1SG Paul DeStout — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 10:05:39 -0400

A 1SG can not write an official policy but more than likely the commander would deny any passes on the recommendation of the 1SG, thus the 1SG can make an unofficial policy if the commander backs him/her up on it. This is sometimes done as a cope out for the commander, meaning that if questioned about it by IG or the BN Commander the Company commander can honestly say that it is not an official policy even though its being enforced as an official policy. He/She will say that the Soldier has misunderstood the 1SG. If the commander says it than it is an official policy, so the 1SG says it.

But also remember that passes are not a right, like leave is. Thus a commander can give or not give at will.

Response by SGT Matt Haase made Jul 28 at 2016 6:49 PM

SGT Matt Haase — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:49:42 -0400

Ok allow me to clarify. There was no official policy written. The 1SG simply stated that the only passes given would be mileage on a pre-existing 3-4 day weekend. Upon further investigation it appears that the reason behind is because the 1SG feels like soldiers should be using leave if they want 3-4 days off when not on a pre-existing holiday weekend.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2016 10:37 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:37:46 -0400

I think everybody is missing the point here it's not about who wrote the policy but what the policy is for. Passes unlike leave are not earned entitlements and are completely at the discretion of the Command. It would not make the Command Team very popular but yes if the Commander wants to make that part of his pass policy then yes he can restrict it to already scheduled 4 day weekends. To enact this I'm sure it would have to be blessed off by higher headquarters to ensure that it does not violate the BN/BDE Commanders policy. We all know that NCOs and others often write Policies for the Commander's signature, usually after receiving his guidance.

Response by SPC Ray Orvin made Jul 29 at 2016 10:51 AM

SPC Ray Orvin — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:51:22 -0400

NCO's recommend they don't put it in stone Officers do that.

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Jul 29 at 2016 4:08 PM

SGT Alicia Brenneis — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 16:08:51 -0400

Are you asking if a 1sg can prevent his soldiers from having a 3/4 day weekend that is a division/post wide established training holiday? (Or any other established additional day off)

Or if he can prevent a pass request?

Response by Sgt Robert Jolley made Jul 29 at 2016 6:54 PM

Sgt Robert Jolley — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 18:54:27 -0400

I cleaned up many times on the weekend when some officer or senior NCO came by on a Saturday and noticed an area in disarray. Everyone in the barracks outside in formation and senior NCO present completed the assigned task then secured the Company back to their weekend leisure time, but that was the Marine Corps.

Response by SFC Dean Wyman made Jul 29 at 2016 7:53 PM

SFC Dean Wyman — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 19:53:05 -0400

And this is one of the few reasons I don't miss being in the Army. What type of poop slurping lead NCO would use this as a troop motivating tool?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2016 3:29 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 03:29:20 -0400

This often is determined by post policy also. For example, no Commander's troops should ever be working a holiday in Fort Hood. I saw an entire chain of command either relieved or put on CQ for the ENTIRE holiday by III Corp Commander back in 2006 because of this.
Ever seen a Full Bird at a CQ desk? LOL

Response by CSM James Winslow made Jul 30 at 2016 7:13 AM

CSM James Winslow — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 07:13:16 -0400

What is the reason for this question? There is more to this story. As an IG, I field questions like this all the time, and there is usually a deeper meaning or purpose than what is on the surface.....

Response by SFC Daniel Zelch made Jul 30 at 2016 8:01 AM

SFC Daniel Zelch — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 08:01:39 -0400

I have been retired now for 15 years. When I was the 1sg of Delta Co. 1-5 Cav, Ft. Hood, Tx. The CO. signed a memorandum authorizing me ( 1sg) the authority to run the leave and pass program for our Co. I reviewed all request, I made the decisions, I informed the Co. of every Pass and or Leave request. 99% of the time he waved his hand in the air and said "handle it Top". This is how things were done back then. My Co. had more important things to tend to. This was a personnel issue. There was mutual respect and trust between the Co. And the 1sg.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2016 9:39 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 09:39:12 -0400

No, commanders make policies. He sounds like a turd, and of these toxic senior leaders that's plaguing the Army.

Response by SFC Oswald Williams made Jul 30 at 2016 10:39 AM

SFC Oswald Williams — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 10:39:17 -0400

Commanders write policies in accordance with established regulations. The 1sg manages the commanders programs they don't write policies .. Not commanders have the legal discretion to add to policies but cannot take away from them what regulations mandate . I would look at the higher commands policy before arguing or challenging

Response by 1SG John Aaron made Jul 30 at 2016 10:46 AM

1SG John Aaron — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 10:46:22 -0400

The 1SG cannot, he can recommend to the Company Commander that a pass be rescinded. The Commander is the person who has that authority.

Response by CH (COL) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2016 10:50 AM

CH (COL) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 10:50:25 -0400

Nope. Only commanders can issue policies. Holidays are holidays unless you are deployed. Highest level policy trumps...if the division commander gives a training holiday, the 1sg can't take it away without the division commander's approval. Now, the PASS issue CAN be enforced for travel beyond the 50 mile line but you would still have the time off. COL Rick E. Morrow USA, Ret.

Response by LTC Loyd G. made Jul 30 at 2016 11:46 AM

LTC Loyd G. — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 11:46:42 -0400

SGT, as you can see there are many different opinions as to what is allowed. The individuals who have responded previously have given their advice based on their experience and knowledge of policies for where they are stationed. My recommendation is to use your chain of COMMAND open door policy to learn what is or isn't allowed. If you feel as though you are not being dealt with seriously or honestly by you senior NCOs, (1SG) or Company Cdr, ask to see you Bn CSM or Cdr

Response by TSgt Julie Miller made Jul 30 at 2016 12:08 PM

TSgt Julie Miller — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 12:08:11 -0400

In my 20 yrs. I'd never known a 1st Sgt to ever right policy of any kind. A Shirts job is to be the liaison between the unit and the commander, to enforce military discipline and order, to be a strong and positive leader. Most commanders either add simple policies as they see fit or continue with what's established. Depending on the unit mission, a pass is generally used to yes reward positive behavior and to provide for much needed releases of stress. When it comes to leave/passes, it is generally the immediate supervisor to determine if the individual can and deserves it. I cannot speak for any branch other than the Air Force, but we did not give out passes whenever someone wanted free time.... we encouraged our members to use their leave wisely.

Having been an NCO and retired as a Tech Sgt. I often had troops asking for time off without taking leave for numerous reasons. After awhile it became an issue, not just in our office but in our unit. Our squadron commander had to step up and issue unit policy regarding time off without leave.

So, in answer to your question. No, NCO's do not make unit policies, we simply enforce them.

Response by SPC Marcus DeMatos made Jul 30 at 2016 12:53 PM

SPC Marcus DeMatos — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 12:53:37 -0400

Nearly every 1SG I've met is approachable. Why not ask for a moment of his time, and respectfully ask for a further explanation of the policy. As an NCO, you too are required to be able to communicate the intent of policy to your troops, and if it isn't clear as to intent or execution, then you are simply seeking professional development from your NCO CoC.

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made Jul 30 at 2016 1:01 PM

CPO Greg Frazho — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 13:01:22 -0400

No way. Only the commander (commanding officer or officer-in-charge in some cases) can make that kind of policy, and even then he or she had better have a good reason, especially if the 3 or 4-day weekend comes from the GO level as it usually does. Yes, you can make policy more stringent, but again, the rationale or justicification for doing so had better be air tight, like an impending deployment or some other unusual situation. That said, senior NCOs can and should make suggestions and/or start reviews of policies or policy changes and submit them to higher on a fairly regular basis.

Response by PO1 William Wilson made Jul 30 at 2016 1:22 PM

PO1 William Wilson — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 13:22:28 -0400

Last I heard only an officer can "secure Liberty" A 1SG does not have the right of rank to change policy.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2016 2:10 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 14:10:44 -0400

The leave and pass policy is the CDRs policy. Company level policies usually reflect BN policy. It might be getting spread that it is the 1SG policy but he/she only enforces policy. If they say it is "our" policy then it could represent the command not just the 1SG.

Response by Sgt Gabriel Benavides made Jul 30 at 2016 3:00 PM

Sgt Gabriel Benavides — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 15:00:08 -0400

In these past few months, even years, the military has been going through a draw down. So, it is inevitable that training and readiness suffers. I will guess that a 1stSgt is a professional minded person. Time off and moral is continuos, but readiness demands are a priority over everything els. More than likely the 1stSgt is just not communicating down effectively the Commander's intent on the policies, intentionally, or just by neglect as it can happen when the pressure to train your troopers falls on a time constraint.

Response by 1SG Kevin Henderson made Jul 30 at 2016 3:23 PM

1SG Kevin Henderson — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 15:23:06 -0400

The only time a 1SG can do anything close to this is due to safety concerns and mission requirements, both times it has to be approved by the commander. A pass is needed for the mileage restriction from post. As far as a "blanket" restriction,, that doesn't fly.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2016 4:06 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 16:06:00 -0400

Define your reasoning for wanting the pass. I feel you are not providing all the information here. If you're already off work for the 4-day, then why do you need a pass? Are you requesting a mileage pass or simply trying to game the system by putting in a pass thinking it'll keep you off the duty roster for long weekends?
Policies in my organizations have always been - approved leave exempts you from the duty roster, passes do not.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2016 6:51 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 18:51:34 -0400

As a company commander, every policy I had was reviewed and approved by JAG and screened by BN staff before I published it. If it's just word of mouth that's one thing, but if it's s posted policy you can bet that it's legal and has been vetted. All company policies were posted in our building.

Response by SGT Stephen George made Jul 30 at 2016 8:39 PM

SGT Stephen George — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 20:39:09 -0400

How do you revoke a pass that hasn't been authorized yet ... ?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2016 8:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 20:44:55 -0400

The only person at the company level who can aprrove or deny passes/leave is the company commander. Even if the 1sg doesn't want to grant a pass it is ultimately at the commanders discretion. Also see the other comments about who can write policy etc.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2016 8:46 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 20:46:09 -0400

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2016 9:27 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 21:27:26 -0400

The local Inspector General will be able to provide specific information and clarification based on the circumstances for such policies.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Jul 30 at 2016 10:03 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 22:03:26 -0400

Your CO has that power. With all due respect, he is out of his pay grade on this subject. A pass is the CO's attaboy to an outstanding soldier, or for sudden humanitarian reasons

Response by SGT Stefan Humphrey made Jul 30 at 2016 10:09 PM

SGT Stefan Humphrey — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 22:09:32 -0400

As a former Leaves and Passes NCO for S-1, the Battalion Commander sets the policy for the Battalion, the Company Commanders either agree whole heartedly with the Bosses Decision, or make "MINOR" adjustments according to their individual training scenarios and deployment needs. I've not seen to many Company Commanders disagree with their raters, just an observation. I've never seen a 1SG write policy on anything, I've seen recommendations, but never policy.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2016 10:10 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 22:10:35 -0400

I'm in the same boat as you. I wondering the same thing. When I was a Benning we were able to put in a pass anytime (not just holiday 4 days) and everyone took advantage with that. Then a First Sergeant came in and he rewarded us with passes that we can use any time. A Bragg it is what you said passes request only on already 3 or 4 day weekends which I don't see how that's fair.

Response by 1SG Jarius Hansen made Jul 30 at 2016 11:21 PM

1SG Jarius Hansen — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 23:21:25 -0400

SGT Haase, your question is a good one, and one you need to understand if ever you wear the diamond. MAJ Ballinger is correct with regard to Commanders writing policies, and those vary at company grade, field grade and general grade level, and also by post, division, corps, army or other directives. Your First Sergeant or Sergeant Major, or possibly unit training NCO can get you copies of the appropriate policies....
That said, here is what MAJ Ballinger and others did not say. There is a very good reason that the Army provides NCO's to officers at all levels above squad level. Every Platoon Leader has a Platoon Sergeant, Company Commanders have a First Sergeant, and all command positions above that, including the Chief of Staff, have a Sergeant Major. One of the duties of a Senior NCO grade E-7 - E-9 (in AR 601-280 if I recall correctly, though the numbering system may have changed since I last read them) is to ADVISE the officer to whom they are assigned. Any Company Commander worth a damn knows the way it works best.....the Commander commands, the First Sergeant runs the company. In other words, the Commander, at whatever level, gives command guidance, makes policy, provides commanders intent, and trains junior officers for following command and staff levels. First Sergeants and Sergeants Major, first, train NCOs to train soldiers; and advise Platoon Leaders through the Chief of Staff, as required, directed, or sometimes, as deemed necessary to either improve the ability of the officer to command, or the assist the officer in avoiding a major error that could result in anything from an ass-chewing to an OER score less than a 1 block (which can be fatal ot an officer's career path).
So, in answer to your question, and with the above in mind, if a First Sergeant has the confidence of his commander, or the commander offers or directs the First Sergeant to make or disseminate a policy, that Commander may in fact ask or order the First Sergeant to write that policy. It will then be promulgated over the Commander's signature. NCOs do not make policy, they carry it out. But they should, and often do, have influence in the making of that policy.
As in every walk of life, there are Officers and NCOs who are less than stellar, and some who never learn the damage micromanagement, ineptitude, incompetence, or looking down on those of lower rank can do until they are on their way out. And there are those that are awesomely magnificent. Then there are the rest of us....the smart ones of which learn both those things to emulate, and those things not to emulate, by watching both the actions, and the negative or positive results thereof, both officer and NCO.
My guess is, the First Sergeant in question either put out a policy approved by the commander, or posted a Memorandum of Record clarifying a policy directed by the commander, and/or in accordance with Battalion or higher command guidance and policy.
And while this is a good place to get opinion, your first place to take your question should have been (and I hope it was) to your Platoon Sergeant, the First Sergeant, or the Command Sergeant Major, as part of their job is to educate you with regard to NCO duties and responsibilities, as well as your role in officer professional development at platoon level and above (and if you aren't a part of that, as a senior NCO, you aren't doing your whole job)
That's my two-cents worth. Hope it helps you with understanding the situation, your options in addressing it, and a part of the intermingled roles of officers and senior NCOs.

Response by 1SG Jorge Guzman made Jul 30 at 2016 11:53 PM

1SG Jorge Guzman — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 23:53:05 -0400

I can write policies all day long, but at the end of the day they will have my commander's signature on there. We enforce policy.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2016 1:47 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 01:47:30 -0400

I'm going to have to say your question is vague. Given what is going on today around the world their maybe reasons or are their issues within the unit? Yes 1SG don't make policy, just enforce, so is he coming off as he made this policy or was it a command decision. I've come to find their are always two side to the story and try to get before reacting to something.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2016 10:02 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 10:02:09 -0400

First and foremost a 3 day special pass or 4 day pass is a privilege not a right. This means its discretionary if you and the Soldiers are in compliance with the basics I.e medical, dental, apft height weight. Pass can be revoked at anytime. You do not need a DA 31 if you are home on pass but if you are traveling outside the required distance set forth in the policy you need a DA 31.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2016 12:32 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 12:32:58 -0400

SGT Haase, if you or one of your soldiers has a need to get a pass that contravenes, right or wrong, what seems to be the way that your 1SG and Commander want to run things I think your best hope is to give them as much notice as possible and to explain why you/they need the pass. It's more likely to happen that way than trying to take it on as a court case. As you've seen from the answers, there is a bunch of variance in interpreting regulations. I'd recommend you start with an appeal to reasonableness instead of starting out with a regulation based attack. "1SG, my sister is getting married in three months, I'd like to be able to commit to family plans, etc...." is going to go a lot further as a starting point than "Here's where you're wrong, 1SG." If it evolves and becomes A Hill You've Determined Worth Dying On, you have a new choice to make and you have the fact that you tried the reasonable approach first. Before you know it one of them will have a sister getting married and the "no passes EVER!" virus will have passed like so many others and it'll be time to stop everything else because it's change of command inventory season. Ups and downs should be expected as the Army goes rolling along.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2016 12:36 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 12:36:26 -0400

If purposely not take any leave. I'd let it build up and let the staff get their ass chewed because soldiers are going to loose leave. I believe this 1sg has stepped out of bounds.

Response by SSG John Lambert made Jul 31 at 2016 1:16 PM

SSG John Lambert — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 13:16:07 -0400

Has anyone considered that maybe the 1SG is just a micromanaging, power hungry asshole who enjoys making his Soldiers miserable? He wouldn't be the first.

Response by MSgt Bruce Hutchinson made Jul 31 at 2016 2:47 PM

MSgt Bruce Hutchinson — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 14:47:48 -0400

As an Senior NCO I "wrote" many policy letters. However, it was always up to the commander if he/she would sign it

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2016 4:04 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 16:04:59 -0400

I had a couple good Commanders if we were in the field on a 3 day or a 4 day he would give a platoon a comp 3 day and rotate the platoons till comp is caught up the platoon that's off no duty roster or details it's family time

Response by PO2 Brian Harringgton made Jul 31 at 2016 5:37 PM

PO2 Brian Harringgton — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 17:37:41 -0400

yes only if is a valid reason however before doing so it must have come from the co or that the co haas to be informed of the matter before hand

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2016 6:45 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 18:45:09 -0400

I'm Navy, not Army. But a senior NCO in the Navy can deny what we call "special liberty" if the CO has delegated such authority down to them in writing. Usually that delegation of authority is restricted to the senior enlisted advisor, but could go lower if the CO puts it in writing.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2016 8:35 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 20:35:01 -0400

Argue it? Stop it with the whining and insolence already. You're in the Army. He's the 1SG. Do as you're told. It will make you into a better Soldier. It will build better character. You should be thankful you were not in the military when I was. Back when slapping, choking, kicking and punching Soldiers was fashionable. Enough with trying to find the damned loopholes to buck the system. Grow a dick and shut the fuck up and do your job and as your told.

Response by SFC Charles Kauffman made Jul 31 at 2016 11:02 PM

SFC Charles Kauffman — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 23:02:23 -0400

No. However, the Company Commander COMMANDS the Company, but the 1SG RUNS it. Most Company CO's are smart enough to let the 1SG handle enlisted and NCO business, and listen to his recommendations.. Your best choice here, SERGEANT, is to back the 1SG, don't criticize in front of junior enlisted troops, and wait it out. Although it IS a drastic measure, Top probably has reasons behind his decision. Passes are a privilege, not an entitlement.

Response by SPC Jackson Stevens made Jul 31 at 2016 11:08 PM

SPC Jackson Stevens — Sun, 31 Jul 2016 23:08:38 -0400

The Top Sgt in the Unit "writes" a policy he or she deems necessary. Then a good Unit Commander will sign off on the policy. If the Unit Commander does not listen to his or her Top Sgt, the Unit Commander could run into problems down the road.
Officers are responsible but the NCOs, and especially the Senior NCOs, are the ones that get things done.

Response by MSG Alfred Aguilar made Aug 1 at 2016 2:56 AM

MSG Alfred Aguilar — Mon, 01 Aug 2016 02:56:42 -0400

First sergeants don't write policy, they implement it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2016 6:42 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Aug 2016 06:42:44 -0400

Not as a discussion of whether it is good leadership, but because it is important that Soldiers and NCOs understand the command and general military authority granted to our non-commissioned officer corps. A First Sergeant has inherent command authority over the Soldiers within his /her company. He/she can add to but not take away from any policy or order given by the officers in his chain of command. For example the Battalion Commander may have a policy on good order and discipline in the unit that if a Soldier is apprehended for a DUI, then the Soldier is restricted to the barracks until his first appearance before the local magistrate. The First Sergeant may add to this that if a Soldier in his company is apprehended for DUI that all passes are cancelled for NCOs in that Soldiers chain of support so that they can conduct routine health and welfare checks of the Soldier in the barracks until the Soldier's first court appearance.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2016 8:59 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Aug 2016 08:59:23 -0400

Only the commander can approve or revoke a pass.

Response by SGT Sam Decker made Aug 1 at 2016 4:50 PM

SGT Sam Decker — Mon, 01 Aug 2016 16:50:25 -0400

The 1SG can write it, but only the CO can authorize it. Federal holidays, training holidays, etc are also above Company level. That said, assuming the Battalion Commander or above as case may be allows it, the 1SG can recommend that passes be denied to Soldiers who ate deficient in certain training areas; ie: failed room inspections, not current on APFT or weapon qualifications, behind on required online training (shudder),etc. Most times the CO will accept those recommendations. Officers write policy, NCO's enforce it.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Aug 1 at 2016 7:09 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Mon, 01 Aug 2016 19:09:39 -0400

Sp4 Byron Skinner…While there are some circumstances where a PSG or 1st Shirt can pull a Pass, it has to be for a reason such as somebody was need for CQ, KP or Guard Duty and the need came up unexpectedly. To write a blanket policy, NCO's unless specifically given the authority which under certain circumstances can happen, do not make policy…The only time I saw this was when we lost a Platoon Leader and an NCO had to assume the position until another shake and bake form OCS could be found.

Response by SFC Dave Gruner made Aug 2 at 2016 7:57 AM

SFC Dave Gruner — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 07:57:10 -0400

Is the 1SG merely ENFORCING Company Policy? Have you actually seen a written Policy with the 1SG's name in the signature block? Is there a specific reason for this Policy being enforced? We don't know all the facts so to intelligently comment on the Sergeant's situation simply fueling an argument.

I sense another whining situation because some soldier or group of soldiers didn't get what they want so seeking out "barracks lawyers" is the research avenue he/they chose to take.

Response by Cpl Ralph Kliza made Aug 2 at 2016 9:02 AM

Cpl Ralph Kliza — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 09:02:33 -0400

It's called chain of command if the 1Sgt denies the request, suck it up.
Cpl Ralph USMC veteran

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 11:03 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 11:03:15 -0400

There may be more to the story that we are not seeing. There are times where the Command team may revoke a previously planned and approved 3/4 day weekend if there are mission requirements. There were plenty of times where we had O2 parts to hang for pacing items, recovery to complete, prep for movement or any number of items that we had to complete IOT meet a time hack. We would never arbitrarily take those days away from the troopers and would endeavor to give them comp time. We always had to ask for permission in order to work on those designated days off. I know in III Corps, if a unit wanted to work on a designated day off, the DCG or CG had to approve. There were always complaints and barracks lawyers who thought that those days were sacrosanct but reality is that Company command teams have a lot of latitude in their training calendars if they had justification.

Response by PO1 Ron Clark made Aug 2 at 2016 5:30 PM

PO1 Ron Clark — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 17:30:14 -0400

I have saw them assign E.M.I., on the days the passes were requested, EMI is Extra Military Instruction, however, the person assigning the EMI has to be there also!

Response by LCpl Dan McTiernan made Aug 2 at 2016 6:20 PM

LCpl Dan McTiernan — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 18:20:39 -0400

Some very interesting positions/views articulated here. Some hit the nail on the head which is the formal vs informal org chart. Does not matter what the policy or procedure outlines. What matters is implementation of the policy and who controls that implementation. Regardless of what the policy states, the real issue is who enforces or implements said policy.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 10:16 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 22:16:37 -0400

Let's look at the big picture. Enlisted do not write policy....BUT a CSM takes direction from his "Battle Buddy" at every level and passes it down to the respective levels. That occurs all the way up to the Chairman level with SEAC Troxell. So, if Top is just trying to flex, he's wrong. More than likely a Senior NonCom gave direction, which came from Battalion or higher and your Top is enforcing it. No he will net tell you "Well CSM said that the BC said, that the BDE CDR said...". He's just telling you the law and sucking up the responsibility. 1SG's tend to take the heat for higher decisions. That's why they're 1SG's.

Response by GySgt John Irwin made Aug 2 at 2016 10:17 PM

GySgt John Irwin — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 22:17:53 -0400

The SOB needs his ass beat by a Gunny.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 11:30 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 23:30:14 -0400

So since the policy is only on already existing extended weekends, that would be a commanders policy. And your PL should be able to talk with your CO about the policy to find out why the commander views it nessecary.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 8:15 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 08:15:29 -0400

Only Cdrs write policies. The 1SG may provide feedback but the CDR is the signing/approving authority. A pass should go to the approving authority and not be stopped short of his or her desk.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 8:54 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 08:54:53 -0400

Well going back quite a few years but first the 1SG does not make policy. In order for the policy to be appropriate it would have to be over the commander's signature and assigned the appropriate command policy number. That being said, official holidays and 3 or 4 day weekends are not a free pass, they are suspensions of training for those days as designated by the commander and only allow for a training schedule that reflects no activities for that day. In order to leave the local area, mileage limit is set and posted in command policy, the commander may request that Soldiers put in for a pass and meet all the command requirements for that pass i.e. pass requested, vehicle inspected, completion of the on-line risk assessment. The 1SG heart is in the right place looking out for the Command and the safety of his Soldiers, however his execution is inappropriate as these actions must be part of the Command policy. Now you did not mention what the Soldiers that have not requested a pass do on these Command directed training suspensions, so I would direct you to look at the training schedule. As that is a written order over the commanders signature and approved by the next commander up the chain of command the 1SG can not override that order and direct unit members to conduct actives that are not specifically listed on the training schedule or required as part of a normal duty such as CQ or Guard Duty.

Response by CW3 Steven Prestridge made Aug 3 at 2016 12:31 PM

CW3 Steven Prestridge — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 12:31:45 -0400

Your explanation is leaving out key details. Since you supplied no information indicating that your 1SG is an incompetent or evil bastard, I will assume he is an average 1SG.
The 1SG works hand in hand with the Commander. If he says you have to work the weekend, you work the weekend. If he says you are training 20 hours a day, every day, for a month, then that is what you do. If he notifies everyone that you will have a road march on Sunday at 0300hrs, then that is what you do. You don't bitch, you don't whine, and you especially don't let your feelings about it show to the Junior Enlisted. You act professional.
The revocation of passes and/or time off is probably because there is a deficiency in your unit and the 1SG wants to get it taken care of. It could be that the 1SG noticed that his NCO's were becoming whining pussies, and they needed to be reminded that they are in the Army, and not a civilian office. Maybe he thought pulling them off of a weekend with Sally Rotten Crotch would get their heads back in the game.
BLUF: Quit bitching

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 7:36 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 19:36:48 -0400

Use your Chain of Command. That is all.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 10:01 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 22:01:47 -0400

I remember just a couple of months ago when we needed about 25 Soldiers (lowest ranking a SSG) to come in for a couple of hours on a Saturday. The BDE CDR had to get permission from the Division Chief-of-Staff.

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Aug 3 at 2016 11:26 PM

Sgt Charles Welling — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 23:26:39 -0400

A First Sergeant can write all the policy he wants as long as it is sanctioned by the CO. I read the post of the Major and technically he is right, but, as a Navy Lt once told me when I asked him what a Jr officer did aboard a submarine, he said, "I did what the Chief told me." There is truth there whether officers like it or not. The last person you want to piss off is the First Shirt.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2016 12:13 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 00:13:37 -0400

NCO's don't write policy; they implement it. So as I understand it, no, the 1SG can't write a policy like that. However, in reality, the 1SG can, in a case by case basis, decide individual Soldiers have to work a given weekend, or the unit has things it needs to do, etc.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Aug 27 at 2016 9:43 PM

1SG Brian Adams — Sat, 27 Aug 2016 21:43:05 -0400

Sgt Haase,
First Sergeant's feel like they can influence authority at their discretion with support from the Commanding officer of the unit. So if Top verbally states that he/she will revoke your 4 day pass and or holiday time off, 99 percent of the time the 1Sg will win that battle.
First Sergeants play God, but can not write policy.

Response by 1SG Thomas Ponder made Sep 1 at 2016 11:27 AM

1SG Thomas Ponder — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 11:27:38 -0400

1SG doesn't wright policy. That is up to the commander

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 10:30 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 22:30:11 -0500

Wow, that’s a 1SG on a power trip there. Policy isn’t 1SG’s lane, that belongs to the commander. Sounds to me like a 1SG that has taken the “ it’s my company” a little too far. Past the micro management on crack, that’s a sure fire way to wreck morale with a quickness.

Response by CPT William Jones made Jan 9 at 2019 7:40 PM

CPT William Jones — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:40:41 -0500

Policies are WRITTEN by many different people in units of all sizes. But they mean nothing until signed by the commander or by an officer(adjunct etc)authorized to sight” for the commander”. You have a gripe about one utilize Commanders open door policy to discuss it.

Response by SFC Jimmy Williams made Jan 10 at 2019 2:21 PM

SFC Jimmy Williams — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 14:21:02 -0500

This is a blanket statement. But I am saying it anyway. Blanket policies like this are created by lazy leaders. I don’t care what the issue is, there is not ever a one size fits all approach that is wise or smart. I saw many leaders make these kinds of policies and they were always unwise and sometimes illegal. But if you go up the chain to complain, be prepared for repercussions. Many times these policies are driven from above. In the 70’s our battalion CO ordered the company CO’s and 1sgt’s to read the names of NCO’s in the D&A program in the NCO professional development class. This was clearly an unlawful order, but they did it anyway. The NCO’s who went to the corps commander using the open door policy got results. The BC, CO’s, CSM, and company CO’s were reprimanded, but the NCO’s who complained suffered consequences. Unfortunately, being stupid Or just an asshole does not disqualify one from being the boss.

Response by 1SG Rob Smith made Jan 10 at 2019 5:56 PM

1SG Rob Smith — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:56:49 -0500

Heres is my take on this. As a retired 1SG. IF THE MISSION REQUIRES WORK, SO BE IT. BUT I NEVER HAD A SOLDIER QUESTION ME. I NEVER WROTE POLICIES BUT I DID INVOKE WORKLOADS. AND IF MY TROOPS S CALLED ME AN ASSHOLE, THEN I WAS DOING MY JOB

Response by LCpl Richard Brennan made Jan 10 at 2019 11:53 PM

LCpl Richard Brennan — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 23:53:35 -0500

Don’t mess with the First Sergeant. Don’t question him. Don’t challenge him. And never, never go over his head.

Response by SFC David Patterson made Jan 11 at 2019 9:34 AM

SFC David Patterson — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:34:08 -0500

First ....policy is made and put into effect by CO...second...passes are a priviledge not a right....there are 2 reasons for a pass 1) milage ouside a certain area for a holiday/extended weekend...2) getting normally scheduled work days off to extend a weekend withoit using accrued leave time. This sounds to me like its a policy stating that reason #2 will not be approved and leave time must be used, which is within the CO's perview and perfectly within regulation.

Response by MAJ Mike Middleton made Jan 11 at 2019 1:06 PM

MAJ Mike Middleton — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:06:05 -0500

First, 1SGs don't write policy. Company Leave/pass policy is aligned with the BN CDR's leave/pass policy. The CO CDR sets policy at his level while enforcing his/her BN policy (adding to but not taking away). A good CO CDR will seek advice from his/or her 1SG. But it us advice - to be taken or not not to be taken. All of that to say - 1SGs don't write CO policy - CO CDRs do. The policy enforces higher's policy but can have added 'language' but cannot take away from higher's policy.

Response by SGT Travis Arbogast made Jan 11 at 2019 1:48 PM

SGT Travis Arbogast — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:48:57 -0500

Use the open door policy to talk to your leadership, and find out why the policy was written. If their isn't a specific reason, then you can try to open door your Battalion leadership.

Response by SPC Denton McLaughlim made Jan 11 at 2019 5:21 PM

SPC Denton McLaughlim — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:21:41 -0500

Once again, facebook RP link recommends a 2 year old OP.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2019 5:53 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:53:12 -0500

NCOs do not write policy, period. Anyone can request a pass or leave, period. It is the Commander's discretion whether or not to approve it, not the 1SG. The 1SG will probably be the voice of the Commander though. This just sounds like the 1SG had a rash of something going on in the company and lashed out, or everyone was requesting a weekend when something will not be getting done like a Red Cycle Tasking.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2019 5:59 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:59:58 -0500

All leave and passes is the authority of the commander. He can and will call you back at any time he wants to. It has to come from your commander. Not the 1SG. No policy letter is required.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jan 12 at 2019 12:20 AM

CSM Charles Hayden — Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:20:23 -0500

SGT Matt Haase Everyone missed the correct response to your query except for two Marines!

Cpl Ralph Kliza wrote, ‘suck it up’!

LCpl Richard Brennan wrote; Don’t mess with the First Sergeant. Don’t question him. Don’t challenge him. And never, go over his head.

Questions? Who is really in charge and who can make ‘bad things’ happen?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2019 1:44 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Jan 2019 01:44:15 -0500

If my memory serves me, you only need a pass if you are traveling outside a certain distance. My last active duty station I believe was 250 miles. Inside that distance, no pass needed...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2019 3:06 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Jan 2019 03:06:45 -0500

Unless you are going out of town for the four day, a pass isn't needed. CQ and Staff Duty would be the exception because I know it would suck to get 24hr duty on a four day. If you're not on the CQ or SD roster and you are not going out of town, then you shouldn't even waste time filling a pass out.

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Jan 12 at 2019 12:36 PM

MSG Scott McBride — Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:36:33 -0500

So many questions on this page that should be getting answered at squad/PLT/Company/Battery level NCOPD or other forms of communication. Where are the NCOs in your organizations? The questions are ultimately enlisted and easily answered by picking up and reading a regulation or policy. If you think you have a problem with a micromanaging 1SG, then ask to see him/her. Its called your NCO Support Channel. NCOs enforce policy/regulations and support the Chain of Command. That's Soldiering 101. Grab your boots, notepad and pen, and request to see Top. Easy. If that doesnt work, then your unit leadership is failing miserably.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jan 12 at 2019 7:41 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Sat, 12 Jan 2019 19:41:03 -0500

It’s up to Cmdr. Some Cdrs give their 1ST quite a bit of latitude they may have approval about passes. Cmdr is the final sign-off for passes and prob’ly already has the policy in hard copy.

Response by SFC Raymond Burge made Jan 13 at 2019 1:35 AM

SFC Raymond Burge — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 01:35:25 -0500

If the time off is that important, take leave and enjoy a few extra days.

Response by SSG Charles Oliver made Jan 13 at 2019 6:58 AM

SSG Charles Oliver — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 06:58:02 -0500

When 1sgt enforces policy signed by a commander it is 1sgts policy. He is the arm of the commander. When the commander trusts his 1st sgt. The they don't stop them from normal day to training and discipline operations. In most cases 1sgt has commanders permission to show and enforce unit authority. In past say 40 years passes have taken for granted to be open they are not. Units do not have to let anyone go anywhere. Units normally let day off fall to the calendar of normal work days and unit training schedule. All that said I do not have enough information here like are there problems with discipline, are squads teams platoons able to perform thier missions correctly.

Response by SFC John Fourquet made Feb 5 at 2019 8:04 AM

SFC John Fourquet — Tue, 05 Feb 2019 08:04:39 -0500

The 1SG can do what ever the commander lets him get away with. My question to you is, have you talked to your company commander about this? This may be the commander’s policy the 1SG put out to the troops. Most problems can be solved by using the chain of command.