Can a BDE Commander designate an O3 to be HHC commander without an HHC commander position on the TDA?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 May 2019 16:04:20 -0400

AR 600-20 states an officer is a commander "by virtue of grade and assignment". Can my BDE commander decide to bestow command authority on an officer without them being in a "command" position? Our UMR has an O3 position in the command group, but the position was pulled from a different section and still retains its former title. In addition, the position is not 01A and the current "HHC commander" cannot fill the slot.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2019 4:19 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 May 2019 16:19:48 -0400

Yes, if the BDE is delegating command authority to the 03 to serve as a commander it can be done. The commander can fill the position with whatever AOC he/she wants. The title of the original billet doesn't matter. That can be renamed too. So the ORB will reflect what is on the OER not the position being filled. Good luck telling an 06 he can’t fill his unit as he wants to.

Response by 1SG Eddie Smith made May 22 at 2019 4:41 PM

1SG Eddie Smith — Wed, 22 May 2019 16:41:15 -0400

The BDE S-1 would have/should advise the BDE CDR if this is doable. But, if I understand your question, the BDE CDR is giving an officer Command Authority without being in a Command Position, which makes no sense to me, but I don't know the circumstance.

Assumption of Command Orders, comes to mind, for leave, training, other types of command absence, where two officers in the same company would have command authority, that is certainly very common.

Interesting question.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2019 5:18 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 May 2019 17:18:35 -0400

Yes. This is actually how I got command. It was a task force that never had an HHC so things like logistics, maintenance, admin, etc were not getting done. So three commanders before me, the TF Commander established an HHC Commander and designated company positions out of the Soldiers he had (o room clerk, supply Sergeant, etc.) I always figured it would have been looked on in my career as a “lesser command” because of the odd way it was established, but I have a company command OER that covers 13 months and it is looked at like any other company command OER. Like the Colonel said before me, good luck telling a Brigade level commander how he should task organize his units.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2019 5:19 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 May 2019 17:19:14 -0400

“Can the Commander do XYZ..?” Almost always, the answer is ‘yes’.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made May 22 at 2019 11:11 PM

MAJ Javier Rivera — Wed, 22 May 2019 23:11:37 -0400

Yeap, and some more artistic stuff if needed!!

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made May 22 at 2019 11:14 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Wed, 22 May 2019 23:14:31 -0400

Why not ask RP’s resident Colonel? COL Mikel J. Burroughs CPT Private RallyPoint Member

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made May 23 at 2019 5:48 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 23 May 2019 05:48:37 -0400

Many young Cpt’s get to command by virtue of situations like this. O6’s don’t get where they are by doing the wrong thing! They are also rather intelligent and work non-standard practices through the S1 and Council. It almost sounds as if you are looking for something to use that might effect the decision made by the BDE Commander, don’t, again it is common practice and that BDE Commander has many resources available, including the support of a General Officer. Support the new Commander and hope you have the honor, privilege, and opportunity to Command some day. Thank you for your service.

Response by MAJ Patrick Hairston CISSP, AWS Certified Cloud Architect made May 23 at 2019 9:44 AM

MAJ Patrick Hairston CISSP, AWS Certified Cloud Architect — Thu, 23 May 2019 09:44:20 -0400

The commander can put whoever he wants in command. The MTOE position codings are only to keep soldiers in the unit. Anyone not in a "slot" is considered excess and at risk of being moved. As a commander myself, me and my 1SG almost always ignored titles. We filled key slots on the MTOE and where there were empty spots we used to justify bringing in more personnel. If you have a bunch of people sitting in "unassigned" status, you cannot claim you need personnel. As a commander, if I want to put a E-8 in command, I can.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made May 23 at 2019 10:19 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Thu, 23 May 2019 10:19:41 -0400

I personally don't believe he has that authority unless the actual UMR Position is a designated as a Command position (i.e, HHC Commander). You can request a UMR/MTOE "Request for Change", but it to must be approved in my opinion. I've been out for a while, but as the Bridage Commander of three different units the MTOE/UMR dictates the Command Slots within a Brigade and those are filled by qualified individuals that DA Picks or they are selected by a process. The HHC Commander position can be requested and selected by the Brigade Commander or the STB Battalion Commander in a Sustainment Bridage, but the STB Battalion Commander and Brigade Commander positions are Board Selected. There may have been changes since I served, so anyone can correct me, if they feel I've got it wrong. I hope that answered your question CPT Private RallyPoint Member

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2019 12:16 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 May 2019 12:16:34 -0400

Why would you NOT want to take command? Especially of a Brigade HHC, it's hard work but high reward. Anyway, the way I see what an O-6 can and can't do is summed up by what my BDE Commander said to me. "God controls the world, but inside this building I am god"

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made May 23 at 2019 2:29 PM

MSG Gary Eckert — Thu, 23 May 2019 14:29:02 -0400

Sounds like you are talking about Directed Military Overstrength (DMO). It is a way to move positions around a Command to accomplish missions not covered by the MTOE. In this case it sounds like the bill payer was within the BDE. Check with your manpower resource guys, they might even have the paper trail.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made May 23 at 2019 4:55 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Thu, 23 May 2019 16:55:13 -0400

I know this is ancient history, CPT Private RallyPoint Member, but that's exactly what happened to me. In 1973, I was in the Signal Company (before group reorganization) of the 20th SFG(A) as a second lieutenant. Two platoons were detached and I was named the detachment commander. My TO&E position was actually Combat Signal Unit Commander (essentially a platoon leader), yet I was a detachment commander and I signed assumption of command orders. I was responsible for the whole nine yards as would be any TO&E commander.
My OER said Combat Signal Unit Commander, but the narrative indicated detachment command.
I still have a copy of the orders.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made May 23 at 2019 7:30 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Thu, 23 May 2019 19:30:47 -0400

The Army Regulations are, "more like guidelines", (Captain Barbosa, Pirates of the Caribbean). Within reason, brigade commanders, and higher level commanders, have authority to make adaptations as needed to fit the mission. There are a couple Colonels who have responded who sound like they have had a brigade command, and I suggest your go with their advice.

I won't bore you with the details, but when I was a young and dumb 2LT I tried to passively resist my battalion commander's directive to make a chaplain's office out of one of the rooms in my platoons section of the barracks, which was clearly against the army regulations. I thought I was protecting my men from having to move. I thought I had the regulations on my side. I thought the post housing office would be on my men's side. Needless to say, it did not work out very well for me.