Can a civilian paramedic perform skills in the Army, if not a 68W?

2017-08-04T00:49:36-04:00

I am a currently credentialed NR-Paramedic, however, I'm not a 68W. I know I have seen, in written regulation that a person other than a 68W can serve as a medic for ranges that require it, other than if they are a cadet. I'm trying to find that in writing. Last field problem we were short medics and I said I could start IVs and perform care just the same, but S3 said the Army doesn't allow that.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2017 12:52 AM

2017-08-04T00:52:16-04:00

Are we talking about just in garrison or in a combat environment? Regardless, I know that if I was in need of medical attention I would want anyone "who is knowledgeable" to help me.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2017 12:56 AM

2017-08-04T00:56:50-04:00

Sir, I don't really have any input for your question but I am wondering if I can get a paramedic certification by training as a flight medic after I reenlist as 68W. It's pretty much opposite of your situation

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2017 7:07 AM

2017-08-04T07:07:37-04:00

If it's for training, then you shouldn't be involved. If it is a legit casualty then you should. We have cls classes and they treat casualties so I don't see why you would be held back to treat legitimate casualties.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2017 8:19 AM

2017-08-04T08:19:42-04:00

Look at the local Range Regs for that area. they will prob state Units are responsible and required to have medical resources (personnel, equipment and vehicles) for all live fire exercises. Also call Range Control Safety, and they will give you a correct answer for their range.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2017 8:21 AM

2017-08-04T08:21:36-04:00

I'm unsure which regs exactly govern this, I know at Fort Drum there was a range guidebook that went over medical staffing requirements for different caliber ranges. Pretty sure anything 50 cal or up it stated word for word 2 68W's and an FLA were required. That said my buddy was in the NY national guard before he moved and is a paramedic and from what I hear they never let him do anything medical during drills or JRTC rotations despite the fact he's probably more competent than some 68W's.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2017 9:29 AM

2017-08-04T09:29:22-04:00

Funny thing about that... The Army Operational Necesity dictates that... in this state the allow medics to be the CLS for Ranges... most training says no, but when I was sent down range back in 07, they were so short medics I was put into a "med det" to work as a 68W on convoy security missions even though I was an artillery MOS...

Response by MSG Mark Million made Aug 4 at 2017 9:53 AM

2017-08-04T09:53:39-04:00

Our medics can only perform a small part of their job stateside, due to the requirements to follow state and federal medical guidelines. This results in medics with less experience and practical skills that might otherwise be needed. Years ago we could do sutures, start I.V.s without a ton of approvals, and dispense some meds beyond over the counter. Now it is a rare day for these things to occur. Sure medics occasionally get to do an I.V. on occasion after lots of red tape, but for those that do them very infrequently it doesn't measure up to what medics used to be able to do. It seems you are on the counter side of this sir, since you are overqualified, but considered not qualified. Common sense should prevail. The issue for you I believe would be accountability, as not working in an official capacity, the ability to hold you responsible is reduced. It doesn't make much sense given your credentials, however on any given day as a medic and as an LPN I'd be happy to have your help.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2017 10:20 AM

2017-08-04T10:20:35-04:00

I believe they can assist in training but when it comes to treatment then I think that's a different ball game.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2017 10:27 AM

2017-08-04T10:27:14-04:00

All 68Ws will be working under a licensed Physician. The BDE Surgeon cell will have the definitive answer of which the Aid Station can push up that RFI. S3 are not SMEs on medical credentialing, but they should be on providing oversight and detailed planning for exercises. A troop-to-task matrix should have caught the shortages well ahead time. Was the Medical Platoon Leader (MEDO) or Platoon Sergeant present for OPT/IPR/Planning Conference? I'm confused on how this exercise was not properly sourced for medical coverage, you can't throw a stick in the Army without hitting a Doc. In the end, your skills can save Soldiers lives, but if you are there for other reasons, then you deserve to focus all your efforts on developing those skill sets. Shortage gap filling during wartime operations is understandable, but during a known exercise in inexcusable lack of planning in my opinion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2017 8:26 PM

2017-08-05T20:26:16-04:00

All medics in the army work under a pa's or doctors lic, so it'd be up to them if you could practice. We do more than civilian medics so it really is not the same. Basic iv's are not a huge issue but like I said, you work under someone else and anything that goes wrong falls into them as well.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2017 9:28 PM

2017-08-05T21:28:59-04:00

As a paramedic, who's license are you working under? According to medcom reg 40-50, in the MTF you work under the medical director's license.
In a MTOE unit you work under the BDE or DIV SURG. TC 8-800 states that an EMT Will recert every year.
Where do you fit in?
Civilian license is cool, but where does it link with Army regs?
Civ license for skydiving doesn't mean you're Airborne or MFF qualified...

Response by SFC Paul Thorpe made Aug 5 at 2017 11:23 PM

2017-08-05T23:23:31-04:00

Some Bases have civilian EMS and Fire . Not sure as I retired in 1992 as to the rules now.

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Aug 7 at 2017 3:19 PM

2017-08-07T15:19:43-04:00

Why not send your credentials to MEDCOM, Ft. Sam Houston, periodically MEDCOM flips back and forth on this subject, or more confusing is AD no, USAR maybe Yes, maybe No, and with the NG... its up to the States Surgeon General. Or, with officers, can you hold 2 branch Identifiers?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2017 5:26 PM

2017-08-25T17:26:36-04:00

You have the credentials and are over qualified as a 6 8 W you might want to check into being awarded that mos by your certification as a medic!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2017 7:16 PM

2017-08-25T19:16:15-04:00

When it comes to saving or attempting to save a life regardless if it's in garrison or on the battlefield and you have the background to do so, by all means do what you have been trained to do in order to preserve life. The class you are talking about is Combat Life Saver course. Any MOS can attend and get certified and sit in a warm TMP during the winter time at the range......

Response by CPT Andrew Wright made Aug 26 at 2017 6:01 PM

2017-08-26T18:01:57-04:00

Sounds like your S3 just didn't want you to do it. Combat Lifesaver's are trained and allowed by the Army to start IVs and administer saline solution. They are also accepted as Medics on some ranges-at Fort Sill I was the range "medic" at rifle ranges on several occasions.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2018 11:32 PM

2018-11-29T23:32:19-05:00

It's NOT Army policy, it is local policy. EXORD 116-17 ( or 117-66?) requires ALS coverage in all training areas shooting over small arms level. A 68W with current NREMT and TCCC certification meets that requirement. For YOU an ALS provider who is not a 68W, MUST be credentialed and protocoled with the responsible area Medical Director/EMS Service (Local MTF/Fire Service/Emergency Services). If you have ever worked EMS you know exactly what I mean. You would also have to be okay'ed with your COC. I just finished a successful year long stint as the EMS Supervisor AND SIMULTANEOUSLY the Emergency Department NCOIC for Fort Riley, so anyone who wants to sharp shoot me on this feel free to get burned.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2018 10:09 PM

2018-12-04T22:09:24-05:00

With due respect to SSG Sauve, the civilian paramedic has a much great scope of practice than what 68W training covers. Albeit, if you have a good provider who wants to up your skills then it changes things a little but no one should underestimate what a “street medic” is able to do.

That said, it’s up to your command. Garrison side, you probably won’t unless you have been pulled specifically into a capacity specifically where you will be allowed to utilitize the entirety of your NRP scope of practice. Unfortunately, someone will cry liability so it makes it hard as a non medic to do medic things.

Overseas, your skills will be in higher demand. My providers allowed me to use my full NRP scope of practice and work a bit more independently. Our Rad Tech was a civilian paramedic too so he did a lot of “medicing” without being a medic. If you went to the aid station and asked to volunteer and could show you weren’t an idiot, they would probably be more than happy to take you on as another hand. Down range, it doesn’t matter as much as a practical tid bit.