Can a CO make a company wear eye protection all day to prove a point?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 22:25:58 -0400

Our CO caught a soldier not wearing eye protection during a land navigation exercise. He decided to make the entire company wear eyepro yo prove a point. Is this necessary? Why not punish the individual soldier?

Response by SN Greg Wright made Aug 1 at 2018 10:39 PM

SN Greg Wright — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 22:39:17 -0400

Kind of surprised to see a SGT ask the title question. Is the order unlawful? If not, then yes he can. Should he? That's another discussion, but I think great leaders would frown at the practice.

Response by Capt Bob Abbott made Aug 1 at 2018 10:42 PM

Capt Bob Abbott — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 22:42:53 -0400

Yup. Valid.

Rather than speak to the obvious method of mass reinforcement, where was this soldier’s battle? Where was the squad ldr, platoon sgt, platoon cc, other NCOs, etc? It seems that eyepro was required equipment for that exercise, and someone showed up without required equipment. Seems an appropriate response.

Now would this be appropriate in a civilian setting? No. But it’s the military and has different methods. Frankly, I think the “punishment” was rather benign and thus, perfect. I never understood push-ups as punishment for everything. Let the punishment meet the crime.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2018 10:44 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 22:44:46 -0400

I did ask if it was necessary to invoke a discussion as to "should he."

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Aug 1 at 2018 10:51 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 22:51:00 -0400

Absolutely.

Response by SSG George Holtje made Aug 1 at 2018 11:03 PM

SSG George Holtje — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 23:03:13 -0400

I would make a company wear eyepro as much as possible without a point to prove to make every soldier comfortable in eyepro and keep eyeballs functioning.
I took a branch in the eye in the field back when eyepro and kneepads were tools of communist traitors that hated the USA(well not really but I've been chewed out for wearing both
I knew another soldier who lost an eye to a poorly thrown stick.
My current job in the civilian occupation requires eyepro at all times except when speaking with customers which prevents bits of metal and wood from flying into an eye and leading to a fall or other injury.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2018 11:34 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 23:34:21 -0400

Yes. Soldier knew the standard. Soldier's buddies knew the standard. I would venture a guess that there were a few (if not more) Soldiers within the unit that saw said Soldier not wearing them and didn't do any corrections. Hence the Commander's decision.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 12:17 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 00:17:41 -0400

You've got a pretty good resource here to actual learn something and you are bitching about eye pro?!? Sounds like you need to be taken to the woodline with a 2 qt and a pt belt. Is the order illegal, immoral, or unethical? No. Does the commander have the legal authority to punish? Yes. If you're going to make being an NCO a career you better give AR 600-20 a hard read. All our power as NCOs stems from the commanders legal authority.

Response by LTC John Mohor made Aug 2 at 2018 12:29 AM

LTC John Mohor — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 00:29:57 -0400

SGT Z Buff your question triggers in me a story of a Iraq Campaign Veteran buddy of mine. He came very close to losing his eyesight completely after a vehicle born IED blew up outside the HQ building that he was in as base commander. He always wore eye pro outside only taking it off in the building. He was evacuated out really quick. It was three years later when I saw him. I still remember his remark to the effect if I'd only had my eye pro on! He still can't see as well as he once did! Just think about that for a moment please!

Response by LTC John Mohor made Aug 2 at 2018 12:33 AM

LTC John Mohor — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 00:33:58 -0400

Is it really punishment if it helps a Soldier retain his or her eyesight? I've always tried to do thinks as safely as possible including keeping all 10 fingers and toes as well as my eyesight. There's still a lot of beautiful things out there that I wanna see as long as I can! Thanks for serving!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 1:20 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 01:20:15 -0400

Can he do it? Of course. Should he? Maybe, maybe not.

But if you consider wearing glasses a punishment, I really don’t know what to say. You all got off lucky.
But heaven forbid you actually reinforce something about only being as strong as your weakest soldier. Live as a team, die as a team. You know, Army stuff.

Best of luck.

Response by SSG Harry Jr. Peters made Aug 2 at 2018 4:15 AM

SSG Harry Jr. Peters — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 04:15:10 -0400

Some CO go overboard I don’t think mass punishment was the correct answer

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 2 at 2018 4:49 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 04:49:59 -0400

Not the best approach but certainly within a CO’s authority. He hurt no one and I am sure he got the point across. His chain of command failed the Soldier or Soldiers who caused this reaction. Remember safety is paramount and while it is a leadership responsibility,?there is also that peer component. It was harmless, thank you for your service.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Aug 2 at 2018 5:49 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 05:49:17 -0400

Eye-Pro - part of the modern protection gear.
Friend of mine lost an eye when a double feed cooked off in 1976 - Could a set have saved his eye?
I don't know but I do know in 2013 my face was sandblasted from a near miss and have no doubt they saved my sight from chunks of rock embedded under the skin of my face.
I met a Soldier who lost his eye to walking into a stick-end while rushing forward - No Eye-Pro and now no left eye.
You and your unit's NCOs should hang their heads - you failed in your duty, further its a crying shame that the CO had to fix the problem.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 6:30 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 06:30:02 -0400

Mass punishment is wrong, no matter what the punishment. It sends the message that you can do what you're told, and suffer consequences anyway. That is a stupid message to send to subordinates.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 2 at 2018 7:38 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 07:38:24 -0400

I'm working under the assumption that the OP meant "Should" instead of "Can" in his main title post.

We all know that Commanders have LOTS of latitude in what the CAN do. What they SHOULD do is much more Subjective in nature.

In this specific case, it sounds like one soldier was acting like a child, so the CO is treating EVERY soldier like children.

Is that correct? My personal opinion is no, at least not with this very specific "Object Lesson." That doesn't mean there aren't better unit wide Object Lessons that would apply directly to this case. Like having a unit wide safety standdown where everyone has to sit through 3 of the most boring hours of power point presentations to the point where they WANT to stab their own eyes out with a fork, followed by instruction on the proper wear and maintenance of eyepro, followed by an "all day exercise" where everyone is wearing eyepro throughout the unit area (duplicating the above).

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 7:57 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 07:57:07 -0400

You have a problem with eye protection? Ask anybody who has suffered a sharp stick in the eye!!! I have buddies wish they had eye pro in Ranger School back in the day!!!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 8:27 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 08:27:58 -0400

Of course he can. He's the commander. The point he was trying to teach is that the actions of an individual don't simply impact that individual. Our actions have a blast radius. I'm guessing this is less about eye pro and more about doing what you're told. The individual will learn a lesson. His battle buddies will learn to watch out for each outer. The Team Leaders and Squad Leaders will learn how to do proper PCC/PCI's. The Pl's and PSG's will learn to spot check.

It's eye pro today. It could be something that costs a life tomorrow.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 8:43 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 08:43:18 -0400

I won't say I would...I won't say that I wouldn't; depends on the unit, the individual who committed the act, and whether or not it was carelessness or an attitude problem.

Trouble is, this isn't about someone being "out of uniform" for an inspection...It's about physical safety and viability.

Making the entire unit suffer does two things; first, it brings heat onto the offender from within his own ranks...he let them down too. Second, it re-enforces the idea that we are indeed our brother's keeper. Bet you that soldier's Battle Buddies won't let him head out without eye-pro EVER again.

On the other hand, I'm surprised this wasn't handled by the non-comms. I rarely dispensed any direct "corrections" to the guys...I'd talk to Chief, get his take, and let him decide how to get his folks back in line. Normally, he was doing all of that before I even got involved. The one or two times I did get personally involved resulted from Chief basically laying out the need to show a "combined front" to deal with a specific discipline issue.

I will say this for your CO...if no "paperwork" accompanied this action, I might give him points for finding a "creative" solution that doesn't negatively impact any one solider's record or career.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 9:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 09:51:04 -0400

A Commander can do anything he sees fit to bring order and discipline to his unit.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Aug 2 at 2018 10:02 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 10:02:42 -0400

Yes, yes he can young Jedi. Punishing the miscreant is fine but there's something to be said for instilling an environment of peer enforcement.
Bet you folks will be more apt to correct your buddies when they aren't squared away, just think next time you all let a buddy slip you could be wearing brain buckets or OTV's, or doing chock block drills all in the name of instilling discipline and team work.

Ask yourself these questions ...
-How many folks saw carl roaming around without his eye pro and didn't fix the deficiency?

-What was carls' squad / team leader doing that carl thought he didn't need to wear his gear?

- If carl got his eye poked out (sucks to be carl), how much crap would you guys be taking and how much special attention would you be getting?

Best thing to do is keep each other squared away so the NCOs and Officers don't have to dream shit up to get your attention. But that's just my opinion.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Aug 2 at 2018 10:29 AM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 10:29:32 -0400

isn't eye protection signs posted all of to prove a point because of carelessness of soldiers, NCO's and Officers.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 10:30 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 10:30:49 -0400

Yup. While in A'Stan, the 82nd took over RC-South from 10th Mountain. 82nd SOP was for eyepro whenever one was outside a building. Our BN CSM did not allow anyone without eyepro to enter the DFAC (the new policy was announced during day shift, when no one knew to have their eyepro with them) So, yeah.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Aug 2 at 2018 10:43 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 10:43:23 -0400

So here's an example of how seriously PPE is taken in the civilian world and eye pro and proper tie offs for roofing come to mind.
One outfit I worked for would send workers home for not having eye pro on, hard hats, or safety vests or not being tied off properly and the sub contractor issued a deficiency notice. Depending on when the person was caught in the day this effectively could be compared to a fine of up to $200 or better due to lost wages. Too many deficiency notices and the sub could be terminated (mass punishment as whole crews could effectively loose jobs ) which would be equivalent to the CO putting everyone in eye pro for corrective training.
The result was that the guys watched out for each other, team leaders and superintendents ,team led and superintended, no loss time accidents or incidents and no OSHA fines or issues. In the end discipline was enforced and team work established.
Oh my!.... funny how military leadership and effective training measures correlate to effective business practices in the civilian sector.

Response by SN Daniel Farris made Aug 2 at 2018 12:20 PM

SN Daniel Farris — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:20:35 -0400

I hate to say this but ones actions could affect others. Was it done to put pressure on an individual by having thier peers mad at them for not following protocol. I hated dropping in boot for someone not doing what they are supposed to. On a ship it could cost peoples lives. Of course its a case by case scenario.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Aug 2 at 2018 1:53 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 13:53:24 -0400

SGT Private RallyPoint Member - Seems to me there are some NCO's who failed at their task of leadership so the CO had to step in and do it for them. The fact he had to make corrections himself tells me a lot about the caliber of NCO's in that platoon/company. I assume the standards were clearly stated as it appears everyone but this one soldier was in compliance.

Personally, I think the company got off easy. At least the CO didn't impose additional training hours (complete with PowerPoint briefing slides on proper wear of PPE) or additional field time.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 2 at 2018 2:01 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 14:01:13 -0400

And I bet, his point was made, and that everybody from that point on will not only wear eye protection but insure everyone else is wearing it as well. It's called peer pressure- if you are going to advance in the service you need to study pyscology

Response by SGT David Wyatt made Aug 2 at 2018 5:25 PM

SGT David Wyatt — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 17:25:28 -0400

seems like everyone got off light to me

Response by PO3 John Keas made Aug 2 at 2018 5:28 PM

PO3 John Keas — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 17:28:47 -0400

Because that has been the way for EVER. Now the entire squad, platoon, whatever will make sure NO ONE will forget. It makes sure the team looks out for each other

Response by LCpl Jason C. Willis made Aug 2 at 2018 6:31 PM

LCpl Jason C. Willis — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 18:31:26 -0400

You know what's worse than an insubordinate soldier who isn't wearing his eye pro. A uselessly blind insubordinate soldier that can no longer perform his regular duties be it dire or routine...

Wear your damn eye pro Carl. That isn't a whole lot to ask.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 6:37 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 18:37:31 -0400

Like SN Greg Wright said, I'm surprised to see a Sergeant ask a question like this because the implied lack of understanding of basic military concepts is kinda staggering. You basically asked can a commissioned officer give an order. The answer is yes, a commissioned officer can, in fact, give an order. This is the nature of military rank.

Response by SPC Walter Currier made Aug 2 at 2018 6:59 PM

SPC Walter Currier — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 18:59:39 -0400

the failure of this soldier to wear proper ppe, could cause him to not be capable of fulfilling his role in the team, leading to an injury or death of another member of the team. You succeed as a team and you fail as a team. There are no individuals. If he were a gunner, or if his task was to watch a ridge for enemy movement and he had sand in his eye he could miss a movement. the team concept is reinforced in this company wide exercise to remind him and the rest of the company that eye protection is very importante to the success of the mission.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Aug 2 at 2018 7:16 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 19:16:00 -0400

Duh, yes.

Response by CPL Timothy Lafarga made Aug 2 at 2018 7:29 PM

CPL Timothy Lafarga — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 19:29:09 -0400

Why was this even a question? Of course the CO can.

Response by SR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2018 10:21 PM

SR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 22:21:52 -0400

CO can make you wear what ever he wants.

Response by CW4 Scott Hyde made Aug 3 at 2018 12:36 AM

CW4 Scott Hyde — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 00:36:25 -0400

What do you hope to achieve here? If the standard is eye protection, wear it and take care of those around you. What would the conversation be had there been an eye injury caused by lack of standards enforcement for PPE? CO fails to enforce standards, Soldier has one eye, medical discharge, disability and looking for openings for a pirate.

Response by SGT Jeremiah Giles made Aug 3 at 2018 3:32 AM

SGT Jeremiah Giles — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 03:32:56 -0400

I would recommend conducting this training for the individual Soldier that got caught not wearing the prescribed uniform correctly. Making everyone wear eye pro all day is pretty dumb.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2018 12:54 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 12:54:17 -0400

If eye pros were a part of the exercise and this soldier didn't have his then his leadership failed him because a PCI should've been done during formation to ensure everyone had the proper equipment. Now if this soldier just decided not to wear them that's a different story.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Aug 4 at 2018 6:11 AM

Jerry Rivas — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 06:11:58 -0400

Yes. No. He did punish the soldier.....And 200 of his former friends.

Response by PO3 Stephen Larcombe made Aug 4 at 2018 9:01 AM

PO3 Stephen Larcombe — Sat, 04 Aug 2018 09:01:08 -0400

The UCMJ doesn’t say anything against it so why not.

Response by Sgt Kevin Siska made Aug 5 at 2018 10:17 AM

Sgt Kevin Siska — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 10:17:53 -0400

I agree with CAPT Bob. The SGT (a non commissioned officer) could have been punished under at least 4 articles of the UCMJ. Would that make him better? The CO used his judgement, as did the SGT to punish him accordingly.

It is only Eye Pro!

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Aug 5 at 2018 1:18 PM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 13:18:15 -0400

This is not even close to the limits of what a Commander can require of his unit.

Response by SGT Jonathan Farber made Aug 5 at 2018 9:00 PM

SGT Jonathan Farber — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 21:00:32 -0400

My question is what point do you think your commander is trying to prove?

Is it necessary, no. Neither is getting the kid on an Article 92.
Is it effective way to keep this specific soldier in proper uniform in the future... maybe. But it is probably an effective use of the commanders time and mild "punishment" to ensure that the subordinate leadership in his company is more proactive.

Response by Cpl Westin Sandberg made Aug 6 at 2018 5:15 AM

Cpl Westin Sandberg — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 05:15:26 -0400

If it were me, I would be blindfolding the out of compliance soldier and make the rest of the fire team/ squad perform a medivac, because hey, if this soldier to took shrapnel to the face and wasn't wearing eyepro, that is exactly what they would be doing.
Train like you fight.

Response by SPC Zack Howell made Aug 6 at 2018 10:18 PM

SPC Zack Howell — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 22:18:10 -0400

why not? it teaches mutual accountability. someone is late to PT formation, everyone but that soldier is in the front lean and rest position until that soldier gets there. same deal.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2018 7:34 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Aug 2018 07:34:20 -0400

Yes because you know when the officers don’t show up with the right equipment. They are offered the opportunity to go home and get it or leave training or the commander gives them an extra pair. But it’s ok to mass punish when a enlisted soldier does it. you want to build team unity look of for the troops the same way you do your officers.

Response by MAJ James Woods made Aug 12 at 2018 3:36 PM

MAJ James Woods — Sun, 12 Aug 2018 15:36:17 -0400

Unfortunately mass reinforcement, or mass punishment, is acceptable and can be effective. As petty as the issue might be, the point was clearly made by the CO and chances are it’s making the unit wonder if they should continue to test the CO’s idea of corrective action.

Response by Sgt Gerald Bossert made Aug 13 at 2018 2:23 PM

Sgt Gerald Bossert — Mon, 13 Aug 2018 14:23:23 -0400

If the CO says you are to wear your skivies on your head and walk backwards for a week, that's what you do. It's not a group vote or discussion.

Response by CSM Charley Heimerdinger made Aug 13 at 2018 7:23 PM

CSM Charley Heimerdinger — Mon, 13 Aug 2018 19:23:28 -0400

Of course a commander can make that a part of the uniform of the day anytime he or she wishes, as can any other person in the chain of command.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2018 9:41 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 21:41:29 -0400

ROFL who wears eye pro for land navigation? I don't even wear eye pro or ear pro when going to the range. It's the military when you get deployed I don't think the enemy will care about safety.

Response by PO2 Jeffery Jones made Aug 22 at 2018 2:14 PM

PO2 Jeffery Jones — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:14:54 -0400

Agreed that the CO can. Unless CO was the first set of eyes on, it should never have gotten that far. NCO's should have seen and corrected.

Response by SGT Douglas Sievers made Aug 26 at 2018 10:46 AM

SGT Douglas Sievers — Sun, 26 Aug 2018 10:46:28 -0400

Yes. Yes. Yes
This is how a good unit trains.

Response by CW4 Jim Shelburn made Aug 26 at 2018 3:19 PM

CW4 Jim Shelburn — Sun, 26 Aug 2018 15:19:49 -0400

As a unit, you are expected to look out for one another. Just because you have two eyes does not mean one is a backup. Plus, AR 385-10 in the Army, and OSHA 29 CFR 1910 Subpart I REQUIRE the wearing of eye protection where eyes can be injured. You should be looking out for one another. If I had been your commander, I would have done the same thing. But that should have already been caught and corrected. Apparently, your NCOs at squad and Platoon level dropped the ball, but you ALL are responsible for one another. That can get you killed in combat if you don't do that.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Sep 1 at 2018 7:51 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 07:51:54 -0400

Yes, it is necessary. If that was the uniform for that event, as prescribed by the Commander, EVERY SOLDIER in the Company is supposed to wear said uniform. Period.

Response by Sgt Ronald Harris made Sep 2 at 2018 8:42 PM

Sgt Ronald Harris — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 20:42:22 -0400

What's the beef? Whatever the policy is at your station, that's the "law". WHATEVER PPE is required, it's required by everyone! When it comes to PPE, your CO can make the policy, and that's the way it is. I worked 28 years @ Argonne National Laboratory, as a Journeyman Lineman. We, employee's and contractors, were required to have ALL of our PPE anytime while on the property, and to wear said equipment anytime while on the job site. If the "safety police" should stop by and found someone without any item of his PPE on, he would be written up. If a contractor was written up 3 times, he was off the property forever! Now, that's the way it is on the "outside", and you people think you're picked on? Grow up!!

Response by Sgt Albert Duran made Sep 3 at 2018 10:25 AM

Sgt Albert Duran — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 10:25:21 -0400

In the Marines, Code Red, would remedy that situation, and when a team member forgets a piece of equipment or decides he will Disobey an order.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2018 9:06 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 09:06:57 -0400

Yes, this is valid. Sometimes the mass punishment works because of peer pressure. I probably would have gone with the Solider plus, squad leader, platoon sergeant, platoon leader all wear their eye pro because they obviously did not conduct proper PCI.

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Sep 9 at 2018 5:52 PM

SSG Brian MacBain — Sun, 09 Sep 2018 17:52:27 -0400

To me, this sounds like a leadership failure on his squad/PLTSGT. Why didn't this get notice upon inspection of troops from the Squad and PLT SGT? For the punishment, is fair and right to do so. However, if I was the CO, I would have a meeting with the 1SG to find out why this happen, why it did not get caught during inspection of the troops (if that happened). Inform to the 1SG that the PLT SGT and squad leader need to have additional remedial training in Leadership, setting the example for younger soldiers.

Response by MSgt Eugene Fielder made Sep 10 at 2018 12:23 AM

MSgt Eugene Fielder — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 00:23:42 -0400

Back in the day while I was in USAFE wing commanders would make us wear chem gear for 12+ hours to see what unit could wear it the longest. I always thought it was stupid. But I did as I was told. I kept an eye on my people and if something didn’t look right I gave them a break. It might not have been the correct thing to do but I wasn’t going to let anyone die in an exercise and for some one else’s bragging rights.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2018 6:27 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Sep 2018 18:27:52 -0400

Simple, if it is not illegal, immoral, or unethical, poses no threat of harm, then yes. One DI found a short curly hair on my battle's soap during inspection. We all lost our on post pass. DI could've punished my battle, but this was arguably more effective to take the pass from the whole bay.

Response by SGM Wally Holston made Sep 19 at 2018 9:36 PM

SGM Wally Holston — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:36:58 -0400

Question is....did you do it? If you and others wore them then the answer must be ...Yes! A lawful order must be obeyed no mater how absurd.

Response by MSgt Gordon Nielsen made Sep 19 at 2018 10:15 PM

MSgt Gordon Nielsen — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:15:59 -0400

Mass punishment other than in recruit training environment is a no no.

Response by Sgt Brandon Juntz made Sep 20 at 2018 1:18 AM

Sgt Brandon Juntz — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 01:18:54 -0400

I would say this reflects poorly on the CO. Things like this need to be handled at a lower level. No eye pro? I know several Sgts that would have an extra set or 2 just to make their Marines look better. Officers shouldnt be involved in petty punishments

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Sep 20 at 2018 3:31 PM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Thu, 20 Sep 2018 15:31:33 -0400

Honestly, I have more of a problem with the question being asked. There's an old saying...if they aren't griping they aren't happy. Second guessing the CO is everyone's prerogative...within the unit... We don't take it outside. If you knew the pressure and frustration a commander has, at all levels, you'd get it. Maybe he's bitched about this for a month. Maybe he's pissed at the soldiers immediate leadership. Lots of maybe's. Bottom line is pick your battles better. This isn't one to get wrapped around the axle about.

Response by PO2 Roger LaFarlette made Sep 24 at 2018 12:41 AM

PO2 Roger LaFarlette — Mon, 24 Sep 2018 00:41:51 -0400

I think that it's probably an object lesson on the importance of protective eye glasses. How many eyes can you spare?

Response by SGT Nicholas Zeigler made Sep 26 at 2018 4:14 PM

SGT Nicholas Zeigler — Wed, 26 Sep 2018 16:14:43 -0400

Camp Atterbury 2011 - the base CSM was requiring everyone to wear eyepro whenever outdoors.

So of my squad wore their goggles. Had to be extra safe ;)

Response by PO3 J.W. Nelson made Oct 2 at 2018 7:22 PM

PO3 J.W. Nelson — Tue, 02 Oct 2018 19:22:48 -0400

By doing this the CO takes the responsibility of reprimanding the individual away from him and places it in the hands of the entire company.....now it's up to you guys/gals to administer appropriate punishment ?? And always remember ......you joined....he did not come find you......you came and found them !!! And yes the CO can do pretty much anything he desires as long as it's not illegal !!

Response by PO1 Robert George made Oct 5 at 2018 1:17 AM

PO1 Robert George — Fri, 05 Oct 2018 01:17:55 -0400

it works! nothing like peer pressure to make your point for you. added bonus of seeing if you've got some unsung leaders while already realizing you have some leaders who might not be(shouldn't have been necessary to be handled at co level).

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Oct 13 at 2018 11:35 PM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 23:35:56 -0400

Personally, I would have made THAT soldier responsible for ensuring everyone else had their eye protection on. But the thinking is that if the entire group has to do it there will be peer pressure on the one to never screw up again. Also, why didn't anybody else in his company tell him to put his eye protection on? At one point in the civilian world I was Safety Supervisor and it never ceased to amaze me how nobody would say anything to a person who was not wearing their safety gear. I would ask "so you are working on a roof and your co-worker is about to step backwards off the roof. Would you say something to the person?" Of course everyone would say "yes". So why don't you say something when that same person is not wearing their safety glasses or hard hat? That is the case here. That is a good reason to make them all wear them. And yes, a number of layers of leadership failed big time.

Response by SGT William Foster made Oct 18 at 2018 1:13 PM

SGT William Foster — Thu, 18 Oct 2018 13:13:54 -0400

Response by SGT Philip Klein made Oct 20 at 2018 9:06 AM

SGT Philip Klein — Sat, 20 Oct 2018 09:06:10 -0400

Yes. Is it effective? Who knows?

Response by SPC Joel Quey made Oct 20 at 2018 10:50 PM

SPC Joel Quey — Sat, 20 Oct 2018 22:50:27 -0400

I don't remember for sure, but I don't think mass punishment is allowed after Basic/AIT. That said, I'm not sure if wearing eye pro counts as a punishment (or corrective training, even)

Response by LTC Charles Disharoon made Oct 21 at 2018 11:01 AM

LTC Charles Disharoon — Sun, 21 Oct 2018 11:01:23 -0400

This reminded me when our 1SG helped one of our young SP4s learn how to fasten his chin strap during road convoys... Back in 1985 with the 7ID(Light), we were redeploying back to Ft Ord from Ft Hunter Liggett with our jeeps (just before HUMVEE days) after a 3 week FTX. The standing order was to fasten chin straps as a safety measure on this 100 mile trip. Fast forward.. back in garrison..driving back from lunch and I see SP4 Patterson mowing the company lawn wearing LBE and his Kevlar helmet with fastened chinstrap. Apparently, Patterson did not comply with this safety measure and Top found out. Once inside the company building, I asked 1SG Terlaje about Patterson's lawn mowing attire.. Top said Patterson was engaged in training on how to wear a properly worn Kevlar helmet. Roger that!!

Response by PO2 Lamoine Brown made Oct 23 at 2018 5:38 PM

PO2 Lamoine Brown — Tue, 23 Oct 2018 17:38:37 -0400

Yes the punishment was for a good reason you need to wear eye protection because you never know what will happen. I have had to wear eye patches because I was welding and the person 50 yards behind me was welding also ,ended up with flashburns from the reflected flash . Wore those eye patches for three days was told I was lucky I didn’t lose my sight

Response by SCPO Brian Moats made Oct 29 at 2018 3:53 AM

SCPO Brian Moats — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 03:53:24 -0400

It's called teamwork and the Team needs to look out after each other because often the mistake of one can really wreck the team.

Response by Cpl David Bientz made Oct 30 at 2018 10:19 PM

Cpl David Bientz — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 22:19:50 -0400

Uhhh, were you even in the military? Damned straight they can. I'd like to have a nickle for every time we ALL paid for the infraction of one. it's called cohesive discipline.