Posted on Oct 21, 2016
Can a commander or 1SG give an APFT and do a height and weight any time they want to?
38K
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Regulation
APFT
Height and Weight
Chain of Command
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 10
Yes
Morning, afternoon and evening,
If you mean a record APFT then the answer is only if the day ends in "y"
And it's announced before the test it is for record
Reality is it's a waste of time, resources and manpower plus not good physical training.
Heck it's not even a good physical reinforcement for corrective training
An APFT should be the easiest training day all month.
Morning, afternoon and evening,
If you mean a record APFT then the answer is only if the day ends in "y"
And it's announced before the test it is for record
Reality is it's a waste of time, resources and manpower plus not good physical training.
Heck it's not even a good physical reinforcement for corrective training
An APFT should be the easiest training day all month.
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SGM Erik Marquez
MAJ (Join to see) - "The only exception is they cannot make you take a record immediately after a record failure. You have time in the manual to increase your fitness"
Sir can you cite that please?
Here is what i have "AR 350-1, Section II, F-5:
"The 4- month rule does not apply to Soldiers that must make-up a record test or re-testing for an APFT failure. "
See below
"(1) Commanders may administer the APFT as often as they wish; however, they must specify beforehand when the APFT is for record. RA and AGR Soldiers will take a record APFT twice each calendar year, all other USAR and ARNG Soldiers will take a record APFT annually. A minimum of 4 months will separate record tests for RA and AGR. The 4- month rule does not apply to Soldiers that must make-up a record test or re-testing for an APFT failure. "
Sir can you cite that please?
Here is what i have "AR 350-1, Section II, F-5:
"The 4- month rule does not apply to Soldiers that must make-up a record test or re-testing for an APFT failure. "
See below
"(1) Commanders may administer the APFT as often as they wish; however, they must specify beforehand when the APFT is for record. RA and AGR Soldiers will take a record APFT twice each calendar year, all other USAR and ARNG Soldiers will take a record APFT annually. A minimum of 4 months will separate record tests for RA and AGR. The 4- month rule does not apply to Soldiers that must make-up a record test or re-testing for an APFT failure. "
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MAJ (Join to see)
SGM Erik Marquez
Just below your citation is the answer:
k. Soldiers must take a record APFT every 6 months for RA and AGR Soldiers, and annually for all other USAR and ARNG Soldiers. If a Soldier fails a record APFT, commanders may allow Soldiers to retake the test as soon as the Soldier and commander feel the Soldier is ready to test (not to exceed 90 days). A repetitive APFT failure occurs when a Soldier fails a record test, is provided adequate time and assistance to condition (not to exceed 90 days), and fails again. Soldiers without medical profiles that fail a retest or fail to take the APFT with no authorized waiver within the required time will be barred from re-enlistment or processed for separation from the service.
If the Soldier feels they are not ready they cannot be forced to take a record APFT for 90 days If they don't feel ready by day 90 then it is counted as a second failure and separation process begins.
Just below your citation is the answer:
k. Soldiers must take a record APFT every 6 months for RA and AGR Soldiers, and annually for all other USAR and ARNG Soldiers. If a Soldier fails a record APFT, commanders may allow Soldiers to retake the test as soon as the Soldier and commander feel the Soldier is ready to test (not to exceed 90 days). A repetitive APFT failure occurs when a Soldier fails a record test, is provided adequate time and assistance to condition (not to exceed 90 days), and fails again. Soldiers without medical profiles that fail a retest or fail to take the APFT with no authorized waiver within the required time will be barred from re-enlistment or processed for separation from the service.
If the Soldier feels they are not ready they cannot be forced to take a record APFT for 90 days If they don't feel ready by day 90 then it is counted as a second failure and separation process begins.
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SGM Erik Marquez
MAJ (Join to see) - Thank for the response, I disagree with your interpretation however.
Id suggest you talk to your local legal office to get their opinion if you intend to take a command in the future.
Id suggest you talk to your local legal office to get their opinion if you intend to take a command in the future.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SGM Erik Marquez - I'm curious as to the explanation. The regulation requires "adequate time and assistance to condition" and the definition is "the Soldier and commander feel the Soldier is ready to test" If a commander forces a Soldier to retake a second test burden of proof is on him that the Soldier was provided adequate time. I think the Soldier has a solid case if separation process starts, certainly 90 days is the limit for this excuse and a reasonable timeframe is defensible, but forcing a Soldier to take two consecutive record tests then chaptering him out isn't going to be condoned by any legal advisor. Certainly is ground for jurisprudence between 1 and 90 days after the initial failure. All the Soldier has to say is they were pressured into taking a test they were not ready for, defending the separation packet will be nearly impossible.
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No, there are regulatory implications to the way you described it, they may still make life miserable, but not like you propose.
per AR 350-1 Testing is prescribed for all Soldiers as follows:
(1) The APFT provides an assessment of the physical readiness training program. Physical conditioning or training periods solely devoted toward meeting APFT requirements are highly discouraged.
(2) Commanders may administer the APFT as often as they wish; however, they must specify beforehand when the results are for record. AA and AGR Soldiers will take the APFT twice each calendar year. A minimum of 4 months will separate record tests. Soldiers that require make-up testing or re-testing for an APFT failure are exempt from the 4-month rule. The intent is for the Active Army and the AGR Soldiers to take a record APFT every 6 months. Mission requirements often prevent the even spacing of record tests. Therefore, commanders are encouraged to test Soldiers for record as close to the record test window as possible. Soldiers requiring make-up testing will be scheduled in accordance with the unit Standard Operating Procedures. Soldiers requiring re-testing for an APFT failure will be scheduled as prescribed in paragraph G–9.m.(6) of this regulation.
per AR 600-9
para 3–2. Standard
a. Soldiers are required to meet the prescribed body fat standard, as indicated in appendix B. Soldiers will be screened every 6 months, at a minimum, to ensure compliance with this regulation.
b. The only authorized method of estimating body fat is the circumference-based tape method outlined in appendix B.
c. Commanders are authorized to use the weight for height table (see app B) as a screening tool in order to expedite the semi-annual testing process. If Soldiers do not exceed the authorized screening table weight for their age and measured height, no body fat assessment is required.
d. Commanders have the authority to direct a body fat assessment on any Soldier that they determine does not present a Soldierly appearance, regardless of whether or not the Soldier exceeds the screening table weight for his or her measured height.
e. Soldiers identified as exceeding the body fat standard will be flagged in accordance with AR 600–8–2 and enrolled in the ABCP. They must meet the body fat standard in this regulation in order to be released from the program.
para 3-4 (Mentions ENCOURAGED to allow a minimum of 7 days)
b. In order to ensure the ABCP does not interfere with Soldier performance on the APFT, commanders and supervisors are encouraged to allow a minimum of 7 days between APFT and weigh-in, if feasible. Some Soldiers that are close to exceeding the screening weight may attempt to lose weight quickly in the days leading up to a weigh-in. This practice may result in the Soldier being unable to perform his or her best on the APFT, if the two events are scheduled close together.
per AR 350-1 Testing is prescribed for all Soldiers as follows:
(1) The APFT provides an assessment of the physical readiness training program. Physical conditioning or training periods solely devoted toward meeting APFT requirements are highly discouraged.
(2) Commanders may administer the APFT as often as they wish; however, they must specify beforehand when the results are for record. AA and AGR Soldiers will take the APFT twice each calendar year. A minimum of 4 months will separate record tests. Soldiers that require make-up testing or re-testing for an APFT failure are exempt from the 4-month rule. The intent is for the Active Army and the AGR Soldiers to take a record APFT every 6 months. Mission requirements often prevent the even spacing of record tests. Therefore, commanders are encouraged to test Soldiers for record as close to the record test window as possible. Soldiers requiring make-up testing will be scheduled in accordance with the unit Standard Operating Procedures. Soldiers requiring re-testing for an APFT failure will be scheduled as prescribed in paragraph G–9.m.(6) of this regulation.
per AR 600-9
para 3–2. Standard
a. Soldiers are required to meet the prescribed body fat standard, as indicated in appendix B. Soldiers will be screened every 6 months, at a minimum, to ensure compliance with this regulation.
b. The only authorized method of estimating body fat is the circumference-based tape method outlined in appendix B.
c. Commanders are authorized to use the weight for height table (see app B) as a screening tool in order to expedite the semi-annual testing process. If Soldiers do not exceed the authorized screening table weight for their age and measured height, no body fat assessment is required.
d. Commanders have the authority to direct a body fat assessment on any Soldier that they determine does not present a Soldierly appearance, regardless of whether or not the Soldier exceeds the screening table weight for his or her measured height.
e. Soldiers identified as exceeding the body fat standard will be flagged in accordance with AR 600–8–2 and enrolled in the ABCP. They must meet the body fat standard in this regulation in order to be released from the program.
para 3-4 (Mentions ENCOURAGED to allow a minimum of 7 days)
b. In order to ensure the ABCP does not interfere with Soldier performance on the APFT, commanders and supervisors are encouraged to allow a minimum of 7 days between APFT and weigh-in, if feasible. Some Soldiers that are close to exceeding the screening weight may attempt to lose weight quickly in the days leading up to a weigh-in. This practice may result in the Soldier being unable to perform his or her best on the APFT, if the two events are scheduled close together.
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SFC (Join to see)
So how I interpret this is basically with my CDR's approval, I could tell a Soldier the day of, or before, that I will conduct an APFT? As long as it's for record? Sweeeeet.
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
The regulation basically allows for it as the fine NCOs have mentioned, BUT the regulation specifically says that the APFT that is NOT record (which has to be announced) is not good physical fitness training and will not be used. The weight AR 600-9 (recommends) says 7 days between weigh in and weight measurements.
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I can't believe ppl don't know this. You can give a diagnostic daily, but record apfts need to have at a min 4 months between them for active and 8 months min for reserve and guard. Per regulations. Look it up!!
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MAJ (Join to see)
PV2 (Join to see) - Yes you can counsel a solder for anything at anytime, but it won't have the teeth behind it without a record failure.
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