Can a corporal in a team leader position have me do corrective action (“smoke” me)? And was I wrong to tell him to eat a bag of dicks?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 21:16:17 -0500

We just got this new corporal who re-classed to mortars and he’s super hooah and after a disagreement and how to perform large deflections he told me to drop now I know he is a corporal but I’ve been a mortar man longer and I am the gun 2 gunner and the fact is he was wrong after all he just became a mortar man 11c and for that reason I told him to eat a bag of dicks just want everyone’s opinion

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Feb 11 at 2022 10:45 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:45:19 -0500

Under Art 92, UCMJ, it is a violation if the SPC does not obey the order.

Response by 1SG Chad Mcdaniel made Feb 11 at 2022 10:46 PM

1SG Chad Mcdaniel — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:46:37 -0500

As a former IG, you technically can't be dropped for punishment, with that said a 4856 is the alternative. Telling a CPL to eat a bag of dicks (although funny) is disrespect to a NCO and yes could again be given a 4856 and could even request UCMJ action.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2022 11:04 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 23:04:55 -0500

To come on RallyPoint and ask this question, I think you know what the answer will be.

Response by CPL Douglas Chrysler made Feb 11 at 2022 11:13 PM

CPL Douglas Chrysler — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 23:13:18 -0500

I wouldn't insult anyone like that, right or wrong. I had one fellow on my gun who it seemed couldn't do anything right. I kept my cool and 36 years later my search for those guys from New York I served with started with him after the 911 attack.

Response by CPL Earl Kochis made Feb 11 at 2022 11:21 PM

CPL Earl Kochis — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 23:21:56 -0500

Last time i checked He better be dropping with you! If not I believe he cannot smoke you. Now as far ss your comment that shouldn’t have been said it’s disrespectful. If he was completely wrong then as a soldier you have thr ssme responsibility as a NCO and should have pulled him to the side and taught him the right way and if that didn’t work go to his first line Superviser and get those attitudes corrected. Power trips need to be nipped quickly for a new NCO to become a great NCO.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2022 12:47 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 00:47:49 -0500

Corporals are learning to be Sergeants, and even Sergeants screw things up. That's just something you live with and try and work with them on. Should he have tried to lock you up and drop you? Probably not, something he'll learn to gauge as an NCO going forward.

Should you have told him to eat a bag of dicks? I don't think I've used that exact verbiage, but I have been disrespectful when disrespected so I can understand the urge and yes it is funny. This however would be better handled on a sideline discussion, you being a "senior" Specialist having more experience can and should be assisting a Corporal in their instruction.

The situation is salvageable, you have the knowledge he doesn't. Use that to help him and your team succeed and let him know that that's all you want to do is ensure you all succeed.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2022 1:15 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 01:15:35 -0500

You told an NCO to go eat a bag of dicks and you wanna know if you were wrong? I don't care if you've been doing the job longer and know more. You were more wrong than a hooker in church trying to pass a $3.00 bill in the collection plate. Personally, you should have been recommended for UCMJ. Disrespect to an NCO, Article 91. And yes he can drop your ass for corrective training. Remember, he's the NCO and you are not. Next time this happens, take it to your Squad Leader instead of planting your head in your ass.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2022 4:15 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 04:15:05 -0500

You were both wrong, but you do what your rank can handle. He was wrong to try to flex because he was insecure about being wrong. You were wrong in your response. He's trying to establish himself as the recognized leader in a section that's new to him. You could have changed that entire encounter by pulling him aside and showing him the TM or whatever reference in a way that let's him save face in front of his Joe's.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Feb 12 at 2022 7:47 AM

LTC Kevin B. — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 07:47:57 -0500

Yes and yes.

Response by 1SG Russell S. made Feb 12 at 2022 8:28 AM

1SG Russell S. — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 08:28:02 -0500

Both of you go practice some “combative” training together in the gym then go have a beer or two and get over this silly shit.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Feb 12 at 2022 11:46 AM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 11:46:45 -0500

He most definitely can smoke you, and I hope he does it again.

Response by SFC William Linnell made Feb 12 at 2022 12:37 PM

SFC William Linnell — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:37:14 -0500

Well there SPC. You see, Your wrong. WAY FRIGGIN WRONG!!! Regardless who was right and who was wrong, YOU need to adjust your shot group. It might've changed back to being able to drop Soldiers for push ups again. Up to you to research it so that you don't get your a$$ in a sling. As the SFC stated before me and it's great advise, You do what your rank can afford. UCMJ actions will not benefit you and might create hate and discontent. Within you.
So cut the BS, talk to the CPL on the side and professionally correct him and have the material to back up what you say. For it can look like your just pulling it outta your butt. Be good, keep your head on straight and work at getting those hard stripes. Good luck.

Response by SPC Cathy Ann Ouderkirk made Feb 12 at 2022 2:12 PM

SPC Cathy Ann Ouderkirk — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 14:12:35 -0500

A corporal is one rank before a Sergent. if I'm not mistaken. but if he was wrong and can approach him and tell him, he was wrong and point it out why he was wrong. That way he won't do that again, hopefully. But ask him if he would like to learn the correct way.

Response by Maj John Bell made Feb 12 at 2022 3:09 PM

Maj John Bell — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 15:09:37 -0500

Marine Corps perspective: You were wrong.

How long must a corporal be above you in the chain of command before you must follow his legal orders? Authority is not based on tenure. The standard is immediate intelligent obedience.

Did the order present danger to life and limb?

Did the order present a danger to government property?

Did the order violate the verbal or written order from a more senior authority?

Was the order illegal?

If the answers are all "no," you carry it out. It is OK to try to point out a problem if time permits, but when the final word is issued, you carry it out, well before it gets to a heated exchange. His authority is not up for debate. Even if the Army has an order or policy against punitive "smoking," your "bag of dicks" comment brings into question your suitability to serve.

Marine officers typically do not get involved in matters of discipline unless the NCO/SNCO chain want them to, or there is an immediate threat to life, limb, or property. If they referred it to me, I'd have you appear at field grade NJP and max you out. Add to it your "bag of dicks" comment, if it was in front of any other soldiers below the rank of corporal, skip NJP entirely and you'd be standing in front of a summary court-martial. Any prior or subsequent indications that you have a problem with authority, and you'd be looking at a punitive discharge.

Response by SFC Marc W. made Feb 12 at 2022 3:55 PM

SFC Marc W. — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 15:55:06 -0500

The troll is strong with this post

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2022 9:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 21:32:39 -0500

Technically, no NCOs are allowed to "smoke" anyone anymore. If physical training is being used for a corrective training, you can't even make someone do more than 5 repetitions of an exercise. Also - the corrective training has to match the issue that needs correction.

So the CPL was wrong to drop you just because of a disagreement and you were wrong to tell him to "eat a bag of dicks." You're supposed to be adults and professionals - even in the Guard. You think there aren't people I've had disagreements with in the last 17 years that I wanted to say similar things to? Sure - even those who outranked me. But I don't.

Sounds like your PSG needs to have a talk with this CPL honestly.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Feb 13 at 2022 7:56 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sun, 13 Feb 2022 07:56:18 -0500

You know you are wrong. I also suspect you know your leadership and how they will move forward with this situation.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Feb 13 at 2022 11:45 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Sun, 13 Feb 2022 11:45:23 -0500

Are you wrong for telling him to eat a bag of dicks?
Yeah, you are.
Does it matter if you were right? No it doesn’t. You can’t flex on higher ranks like that and act surprised when it comes back on you.

He is in the wrong because he needs to have a different approach and be humble but in the end both of you stepped in it and showed your backsides.

You can’t publicly throw uninformed leaders under the bus like that. This is an important lesson to learn. You don’t see Platoon Sgts telling boot lts to kick rocks all the time. It takes tact to put people in their place while preventing you from getting in hot water

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 13 at 2022 12:20 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Feb 2022 12:20:18 -0500

Haha........... too many responses for this post.

If the 1SG walked in my office with the issue, and being the poster is NG I'd assign at least one "U" for the day of Drill, and effectively docking pay for that half day. It's a lot less effort than reducing rank. I've done it. It's not that hard, but it was a SPC lipping off to a SFC. Make a "U" on the pay book next to his name, sign it, have a counseling statement to back it up in the event the soldier reaches back to IG, and done.

I suspect a CPL-SPC issue would simply be handled at the section NCO level, at the very most the PSG level.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Feb 13 at 2022 3:42 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:42:01 -0500

Uhmmmm ... well, two wrongs do not make anything right. Personally, I don't believe that in a non-training environment, that any NCO should "drop" anybody. Likewise, your comment that I think was an attempt at being "salty," was in just as much poor taste in any environment other than friendly chop busting among friends or peers.

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Feb 13 at 2022 11:13 PM

Cpl Bernard Bates — Sun, 13 Feb 2022 23:13:17 -0500

Where is the discipline? In my day we would have met in the boonies and I would have shown you who is the boss. USMC 59-63 Semper Fi.

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Feb 14 at 2022 12:01 PM

SPC Kevin Ford — Mon, 14 Feb 2022 12:01:58 -0500

He has the power to do it and you were wrong. Regardless of if he's wrong on the technical side of the job, he is your NCO. Since he is new to the field you would do much better to try and help him in private to be successful instead of undermining his authority in public. That won't help either of you and in certainly won't help the unit.

If he makes a couple of mistakes in training, that's all good too. It's part of the reason we do training.

Response by SGT Richard Souza made Feb 14 at 2022 1:15 PM

SGT Richard Souza — Mon, 14 Feb 2022 13:15:05 -0500

More often than not, it's how you say approach something that will get you hemmed up more than the topic itself. When I was a young Corporal in Afghanistan, I told my commander and first Sergeant they were wrong quite often. When I had those talks, they were always out of sight of the company (Ops cell was ok) and I always had documentation to back me up. At the end of the day, the decision was theirs, but I built a great rapport with them and had their trust. Something to consider

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Feb 14 at 2022 4:28 PM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Mon, 14 Feb 2022 16:28:53 -0500

First, your “B of D” isn’t going to get you anywhere.

Second, there must be a reason so many of you are not selected for an NCO rank, donning the Spec-4 instead.

Third, your team leader does have authority over you. Paygrade irrelevant.

Fourth, if in fact the Cpl was shown to be incorrect, then he should acknowledge it.

Fifth, stop with the “but I was here longer” whining. There are plenty of turds who have been floating in the same spot for forever...back to why many will never see an NCO rank.

Respectfully...now I will admit a bit of Corps bias. ALL our E4s are Corporals. We don’t have the (imo stupidity) of an alternate (pay you more without giving you NCO responsibilities) crap.

Response by CPL Raul Perez Jr made Feb 15 at 2022 4:15 PM

CPL Raul Perez Jr — Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:15:40 -0500

Hey brother you were wrong in your approach,again we weren’t there. As the experienced 11C, explaining to why you did was right, you missed an educational moment.

Response by SPC John Hubbard made Feb 15 at 2022 6:30 PM

SPC John Hubbard — Tue, 15 Feb 2022 18:30:28 -0500

Seems to me the word we are looking for here is, TACT. Neither 1 of you have it and both need to work on your leadership skills.

Response by PO1 Sam Deel made Feb 15 at 2022 9:02 PM

PO1 Sam Deel — Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:02:45 -0500

Brother, you should always keep your Military Bearing, whether they are junior, senior or a peer. The Corporal has Positional Authority. You have to Respect that as part of your Situational Chain of Command. For example, as a C-130T Loadmaster in the Navy, each Crew position has Positional Authority. During load/unload evolution, the Loadmaster, as Subject Matter Expert, has Command of the load/unload evolution. All available Crew Members, including the Pilots, are under the direction of the Loadmaster. Of course, this is limited to the evolution and predicated upon other Mission factors. However, proper Military Bearing and Respect for Rank is in full effect. On one Mission, I was an E-5 giving an O-6 Commands during such an evolution. Again, it is all about Respect.

In your case, you need to follow the Commands/Orders given. If you believe that the Commands/Orders will cause systems damage, injury or death to personnel, you can ask for clarification or refuse on grounds of an unlawful Order.

Response by CPL Rhett Madison made Feb 16 at 2022 10:24 AM

CPL Rhett Madison — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 10:24:28 -0500

300 Spartans in Thermopylae (300 AFPT score) you should have told him to fight you off base, and no matter who wins or who loses you go to the PUB and drink all the fine wine and then become best friends for life.....

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Feb 16 at 2022 5:09 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 17:09:18 -0500

A VERY similar situation was what got me my 1st Article 15. My squad leader was so far in left field he wasn't even in the bleachers, he was in the parking lot.

My 1SG even told me that what I did and said NEEDED to be done and said. But I didn't have the rank to do or say it, so here's your article 15.

Yes you were wrong. Article 15 level wrong.

Response by SA Tim Peter made Feb 18 at 2022 7:56 PM

SA Tim Peter — Fri, 18 Feb 2022 19:56:43 -0500

In Seattle, telling someone to "eat a bag of Dick's" is actually a compliment and highly recommended. Elsewhere, probably not.

Response by CPL Patrick Fullan made Feb 19 at 2022 10:39 AM

CPL Patrick Fullan — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:39:54 -0500

Should have told him to eat two bags of dicks. Assclown was on a power trip.

Response by CPL Patrick Fullan made Feb 19 at 2022 10:45 AM

CPL Patrick Fullan — Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:45:28 -0500

They can try, wont work out well for them.

Response by CPL Sam Yellowbird made Feb 24 at 2022 1:51 AM

CPL Sam Yellowbird — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 01:51:33 -0500

If your platoon sargeant was to find out about this he would be having grilled soldiers. this was poorly handled and some remedial training would be in order.

Response by CPL Marcellus Jordan made Feb 24 at 2022 1:42 PM

CPL Marcellus Jordan — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 13:42:50 -0500

Follow the order FIRST and deal with the underlying issue later. Respect and adherence is of the utmost importance as in a combat situation there is ABSOLUTELY no room for back and forth banter. Right or wrong (within morality if applicable) just carry out what is required at the moment and there is always time to correct it later. I wish you God Speed in this matter and most importantly? If he doesn't push the issue you should apologize and Thank him because right or wrong he is your superior and could make this really ugly for you.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Mar 2 at 2022 4:22 AM

LTC Stephen F. — Wed, 02 Mar 2022 04:22:58 -0500

As an infantry officer who graduated from the Infantry Mortar Platoon Leaders Course (IMPOC), Fort Benning, Georgia in July 1980 and assigned to 1/52 Infantry Regiment at Warner Barracks Bamberg, with being an 11C 1LT responsible for the mortar platoon in A Company in addition to being executive officer of the company; you were both wrong - him for lording it over you and you for telling him "to eat a bag of dicks'
I concur with SFC Private RallyPoint Member MSG Private RallyPoint Member SFC Ralph E Kelley Maj John Bell CPL Douglas Chrysler CSM Darieus ZaGara PO1 Sam Deel

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 3 at 2022 8:11 AM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:11:19 -0500

Your response put you in the wrong. He stepped outside his power lane but you were insubordinate and engaged in conduct unbecoming a soldier. That being said he will go one to promote to SSG and you just made an enemy of a potential mentor .

Response by CPL Michael Moore made Mar 3 at 2022 1:07 PM

CPL Michael Moore — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 13:07:32 -0500

Respect the rank not the man. You do what he told you to then use your chain of command to correct. Unless his fire commands endanger your life or fellow soldiers you should have pulled him aside and quietly corrected him.

Response by CPL Allan Suddeth made Mar 3 at 2022 1:18 PM

CPL Allan Suddeth — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 13:18:15 -0500

SPC.... not an NCO..... CPL..... NCO
BEAT YOUR FACE!!! You don't belong in the E4 Mafia!

Response by CSM Tony Blair made Mar 14 at 2022 1:57 PM

CSM Tony Blair — Mon, 14 Mar 2022 13:57:47 -0400

Lmao

In infantry we hold to the ranks hard, very hard if a PFC tell a E2 to do something, they better.
This is military 101, if you had a problem with what the team leader was telling you, the proper thing to do was ,
1.request to see the squad leader
2.if he refused do your punishment, then go to the squad leader yourself, by making that statement, you open yourself up for UCMJ actions.
Disrespect a non commission officer.
It’s seem you lack military bearing, and are not informed on your right as a soldier.
As a young paratrooper, I studied the military law, and also my rights as to when and how to use my chain of command.
I understand that their are leaders that that advantage of their rank, that what the inspector general is for, and or the chaplain.
Disrespect is never a option.

Airborne All the way!!

Response by SSG Kevin Pendelton made Mar 14 at 2022 7:54 PM

SSG Kevin Pendelton — Mon, 14 Mar 2022 19:54:00 -0400

When I was a corporal in the army yes these new soldiers don’t know what to tell you

Response by MAJ Steve Warnerski made Apr 2 at 2022 12:20 PM

MAJ Steve Warnerski — Sat, 02 Apr 2022 12:20:55 -0400

Yes - you were WRONG. Suggestion: Don't EVER use language to anyone. You are showing gross immaturity, won't change anyone's mind about anything, and could face UCMJ charges, which could cost you rank and money. You were technically right IRT correcting for deflections but TERRIBLY wrong in how you expressed it. (Its now history; apologize to the NCO, and learn to control your mouth. Ask me how I know this....)

Response by SGT Timothy Conley made Apr 10 at 2022 12:05 AM

SGT Timothy Conley — Sun, 10 Apr 2022 00:05:53 -0400

He still out ranks you, period.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Apr 10 at 2022 10:25 AM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Sun, 10 Apr 2022 10:25:49 -0400

He was new and inexperienced to the mos, squad ldr will train him. You have been in the military long enough to know insubordination is unacceptable. Insubordination is contagious and will be dealt with quickly and hard. you just became the problem every NCO in the unit will take interest in addressing .

Response by SPC William Snyder made Apr 13 at 2022 6:22 PM

SPC William Snyder — Wed, 13 Apr 2022 18:22:47 -0400

Maybe it's time you get out of the service... And maybe eat a bag of ducks.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2022 10:37 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Apr 2022 22:37:54 -0400

As for insulting your supervisor, you are wrong and can be punished. He is in a command slot and an NCO.
Whether he is allowed to drop you for pushups, depends on the unit's leadership and its guidance. You can ask the squad leader or platoon sergeant.

If you disagree with him, think about how you would phrase your response and if you would push back if you weren't the same E grade and he was an E-5 or E-6. Would your response be the same or would you be a little more diplomatic about it?

Response by TSgt Carl Johnson made Apr 15 at 2022 2:48 PM

TSgt Carl Johnson — Fri, 15 Apr 2022 14:48:20 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member, it's been a few months. Are you still SPC Gomez, or are you PFC Gomez again? Hopefully, you apologized for disrespecting the Corporal, and then explained to him in private why he was wrong, and that you hope the two of you can work together for the good of the squad.

Response by SGT Chad Goethe made Apr 15 at 2022 6:03 PM

SGT Chad Goethe — Fri, 15 Apr 2022 18:03:09 -0400

You’re wrong, period. Doesn’t matter if he pinned stripes an hour ago or a year ago. You hold the same pay grade but not the same rank, and he is in a leadership position, and also an NCO. Him being wrong in his call means exactly nothing, you’re training and the better option is to follow the order and pull him aside later for a private AAR. Knowing the type of units I served in, any NCO’s within earshot of you telling another NCO to “Eat a bag of dicks” in response to a lawful order would have been so far up your ass, this question wouldn’t even need to be asked.

Response by CPL Thomas Kendra made Apr 19 at 2022 2:34 AM

CPL Thomas Kendra — Tue, 19 Apr 2022 02:34:13 -0400

I would have expected and given the same response, let him eat dicks. E-4 Mafia Rules! if the CPL was so Hooah he would have scored some more promotion points. HaHa.

Response by MSgt Jonathan Stump made Apr 27 at 2022 8:25 AM

MSgt Jonathan Stump — Wed, 27 Apr 2022 08:25:25 -0400

I think that this is one of those moments I had. A Second Lt, new in, started to dig his bars into me. I just smiled, and said yes sir. The Lt Col took him aside later and had a arm to head talk to him.

Response by CPL Joseph Bennett made Apr 27 at 2022 8:32 PM

CPL Joseph Bennett — Wed, 27 Apr 2022 20:32:25 -0400

I don't know how it works in the mortar world but in the toad artillery world the gunner is second to the chief on the line

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made May 16 at 2022 11:13 AM

SPC Randy Torgerson — Mon, 16 May 2022 11:13:55 -0400

While SPC and Corporal are lateral ranks, the fact that he was in charge as a team leader indicates he is in charge and therefore may take corrective actions on you. And sounds like he should have. The disrespt you showed warants corrective action all by itself.

Response by CPL Chase Hobson made May 16 at 2022 4:51 PM

CPL Chase Hobson — Mon, 16 May 2022 16:51:22 -0400

Yes he can but the reason better be sufficient if it's brought up with command.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2022 3:57 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 May 2022 15:57:48 -0400

You acted poorly and unable to follow leadership. Definitely should be counseled and demoted. Its that bad attitude why NCOs have such an issue with the junior enlisted thinking they can say anything and get away with it. Not too long ago you would've had wall to wall counseling

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2022 10:20 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 May 2022 22:20:45 -0400

It’s training….I would have complied with what he asked, and if it failed, which according to you it probably would have, the CPL would have learned a valuable lesson in humility. But instead, you elected to be immature. Not everything requires an argument and you’re not always going to get your way

Response by PO2 Melissa Groff made May 24 at 2022 10:36 AM

PO2 Melissa Groff — Tue, 24 May 2022 10:36:08 -0400

Personally I've seen so many moments where other NCOs got overly zealous with power. Remember military isn't built with a bunch of people who understand the meaning of leadership, some our people who never possessed leadership qualities and find themselves power hungry. Yes like so many posted under the UCMJ you did wrong, but honestly how many that responded never did the same. I told a senior chief who was absolutely out of line during a combat mission to shove it. It's happens in moments. Learn to breath and remember not to be the type of leader like those awful ones around you, and hold your tongue we all do things that seem degrading when we are at the bottom of the chain.

Response by SGT Claudio Razzetti made May 24 at 2022 12:00 PM

SGT Claudio Razzetti — Tue, 24 May 2022 12:00:30 -0400

The second you shot off your pie hole ,you lost ! Even your so called expertise as an 11c demanded, best way to handle it ,since i take this as a crew drill , take him aside and show him your proof why he might be wrong, you won't win any Brownie points by name calling a jr NCO, you both could've learned something from that small error I'm a former 11C 4.2 heavy mortars, transition into Artillery 13b

Response by Sgt Claudus Howell made May 24 at 2022 2:24 PM

Sgt Claudus Howell — Tue, 24 May 2022 14:24:02 -0400

You are the problem with the military today. You’re all mouth and hurt feelings. After taking an ass whipping you should have ended up in the brig. Grow up. You will never be able to lead until you learn how to follow.

Response by LTC Lou Field Jr. made May 24 at 2022 8:51 PM

LTC Lou Field Jr. — Tue, 24 May 2022 20:51:11 -0400

Chain of command, dude.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made May 25 at 2022 7:47 AM

1SG Ernest Stull — Wed, 25 May 2022 07:47:33 -0400

Soldier SPC doesn't make you special you are an enlisted a CPL. is an NCO. In my day getting smoked would be the last thing you would have to worry about. You just consider yourself lucky b/c if I was your nco we would have a three legged race to the medics so they can extract my foot out of your 4th point of contact.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made May 25 at 2022 8:45 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Wed, 25 May 2022 08:45:37 -0400

Short answer...Yes he can and yes you were.

Response by 1SG Timothy Horan made May 25 at 2022 1:30 PM

1SG Timothy Horan — Wed, 25 May 2022 13:30:44 -0400

Your argument that he is wrong because he recently became an 11C and you had been one for a longer period is invalid. There are other ways to handle the situation. As long as his directions are not immoral, illegal, or endangering, you do what he directs.
I'm surprised you can decipher the complexities of indirect fire but not the simplicity of military courtesy.
You are fortunate to not be sucking dick for beer money.

Response by PFC Bryan Patterson made May 25 at 2022 3:34 PM

PFC Bryan Patterson — Wed, 25 May 2022 15:34:05 -0400

Did you offer to dip the bag of dicks in ranch for the cpl?

Response by CPT Kurk Harris made May 25 at 2022 3:43 PM

CPT Kurk Harris — Wed, 25 May 2022 15:43:24 -0400

I was an 11C, and a very experienced and skilled Chief Computer. We got a new SSG who had reclassed to 11C from personnel. He was a very solid NCO, but very unskilled for his pay grade in the MOS. He was given the Section Sergeant position over me. I was upset because I had been promised the position before he came. I could have been disrespectful and let him fail. What would that have benefitted anyone? The point is that if he is wrong, and drops you for it, great. More PT is good PT. After you comply, talk to him privately. Ask why he feels you should do it the way he directed because you were taught differently. He may feel that he has to be hard to prove he belongs and is afraid of being seen as incompetent. Help him become a better squad leader. It will benefit everyone. I will guarantee the senior leadership is watching your squad closely. He is base gun squad leader, so people watch him. Try to help him and it will reflect well on your followership and potential for future leadership. Telling him to eat a bag of dicks sends the opposite message, and reflects very poorly on you. By the way, if you told one of my squad leaders to eat a bag of dicks, you would be lucky to just get an Article 15. I'll guarantee you would be a poster child for physical fitness and individual discipline, or you'd be completely broken before my leadership team was done. Either way, disrespect is never the answer, whether it flows up or down.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2022 4:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 May 2022 16:48:21 -0400

Did he say “eat a bag of dicks?” WOW

Response by SGT Jeremy Andrews made May 26 at 2022 9:59 AM

SGT Jeremy Andrews — Thu, 26 May 2022 09:59:18 -0400

There is a time and place to bring any disagreements, whether founded or unfounded. The thing is, he is your chain of command. I have not one clue where you get it that it’s ok to spout of to your first line NCO, regardless of same rank. Was he in the wrong, more than likely he was, but you take the smoking, get your military bearing back in dress right dress then bring it up to the Squad Leader first. Your attitude reflects leadership to a point, be better in order to move up through the ranks. If nothing happens then take this as a learning experience but be prepared for Company Grade Actions at the least.

Response by SGT Gregory Demetreon made May 26 at 2022 12:18 PM

SGT Gregory Demetreon — Thu, 26 May 2022 12:18:59 -0400

No matter what job you have, civilian or military, there will be bosses and leaders that you don't agree with. If your reaction is to "eat dick" then sounds like you have a lot of maturing to do in learninghow to deal with situationsthat you don't like.. In the "real world" you would have been fired. Thank goodness you are in a job that gives corrective action (so what if you have to do a few un called for push ups in order to learn to handle situations like this as a grown up) rather than fired. Even if you are the correct one. Life is not fair and the military isn't a democracy.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made May 26 at 2022 3:59 PM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Thu, 26 May 2022 15:59:20 -0400

I Guess That Depends,
Just How Big WERE Those Dicks?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2022 5:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 May 2022 17:11:08 -0400

Congratulations on being selected for Junior STEP. If you haven’t heard of it, it’s a new longer leader validation program that tests selectees on their bearing, confidence and knowledge of military regulations.

They clearly assigned this NCO to your gun because they want to see if you’re willing to “guard your flank against any rank”. You clearly passed the first test. Time to show how bold and in charge you are. Don’t reverse course. If you do you’ll be flagged as lacking confidence and will likely have to wait longer for promotion. If this “CPL” attempts to exert his authority anymore then go further. Tell him to eat the whole bag. If he continues, match his tenacity by demanding to “stand in front of the Commander”, you have to use that specific terminology. When you do, they’ll further test you by having you sign Article 15 papers. Don’t be dissuaded, it’s all a part of the process. Just continue to keep your trajectory. Once the opportunity presents itself you’ll have the opportunity to appeal for a Court Martial. That’s the goal. The military justice system doesn’t typically have the time or money to pursue them and they want to know if you’re savvy on how discipline works.

The Army is looking for go getters and you obviously caught someone’s attention. Just remember that they’ll test you at every turn. You might feel scared, it might feel deadly real but just keep in mind that they’re assessing your determination. You sound like a smart guy and you clearly have the backbone for the Corps. Congratulations on your impending promotion!

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made May 26 at 2022 6:01 PM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Thu, 26 May 2022 18:01:42 -0400

SPC - judging how you wrote this, you probably were disrespectful in how you disagreed with him, did so in front of the team, thus undermining his authority. He dropped you not because you disagreed, but how you did it. Quite frankly, if I saw or heard any of my troops telling one of my NCO's to eat a bag of dicks, no matter how right they might be, there would be an event oriented counseling statement containing the magic bullet for violating art. 91 of the UCMJ. there is a right way and a wrong way to disagree with your superior, you chose the wrong way.

Response by SSgt Bruce Probert made May 27 at 2022 4:06 AM

SSgt Bruce Probert — Fri, 27 May 2022 04:06:24 -0400

Specialist E-4 and and Corporal E-4 Who is junior in date of rank? As a Marine I didn't have to deal with that difference. As a Junior NCO it is obvious that the corporal is making a lot of mistakes That is not to let the specialist off the hook. A smart corporal would have evaluated his subordinates and learned from them especially from someone who is equal in pay grade. It sounds like some one needs NCO school to me I'd send them both. Not plotting a fire mission correctly can get people killed.

Response by CPL Bill Schroeder made May 27 at 2022 8:34 PM

CPL Bill Schroeder — Fri, 27 May 2022 20:34:53 -0400

He's just remembering what he wanted to say while he was on the ground.

Response by SGT Stephen Arrowsmith made May 27 at 2022 11:08 PM

SGT Stephen Arrowsmith — Fri, 27 May 2022 23:08:43 -0400

Yes. Not because you told an NCO to eat a bag of ducks but because you told the Wrong NCO to eat a bag of socks. That honor should have gone to the moron that made a reclass that doesn’t know what he is talking about an NCO in a team lead position. That’s a failure higher up than a corporal

Response by SGT Stephen Arrowsmith made May 27 at 2022 11:11 PM

SGT Stephen Arrowsmith — Fri, 27 May 2022 23:11:33 -0400

Tell your entire chain of command to come see me and I’ll set em all straight for you.

Response by CPL Timothy Crosier made May 28 at 2022 8:05 AM

CPL Timothy Crosier — Sat, 28 May 2022 08:05:20 -0400

As a SPC you should just know Better, an NCO is an NCO even if he is new to the position. What would you have done if you had the 2 Chevrons and a SPC told you to eat a bag of Dicks? There are always better ways to deal with situations, if you plan on being promoted and taking a leadership position you need to think about that, even still as a SPC you still need to lead by example for the privates in your team, squad platoon and HELL all the privates in the whole unit that may see or hear you, don't let them believe that shit is ok. I became a team leader as a PFC and for about a month or 2 had to be acting squad leader in weapons squad as a 240 gunner, then was promoted to SPC after we got a squad leader, While I held that position even as a PFC my squad respected me as if I was an NCO, and that is the way it should be especially in any infantry unit

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2022 8:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 May 2022 20:36:58 -0400

"Can a corporal in a team leader position have me do corrective action (“smoke” me)? And was I wrong to tell him to eat a bag of dicks?"

Yes, and yes.

Response by SFC Chet Crump made May 28 at 2022 9:27 PM

SFC Chet Crump — Sat, 28 May 2022 21:27:35 -0400

YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. You should feel very lucky that you were not one of my soldiers. I would have had a strip taken from you if the UCMJ allowed it.

Response by SGM Ronald Cheatom made May 29 at 2022 5:34 PM

SGM Ronald Cheatom — Sun, 29 May 2022 17:34:35 -0400

When I was in, we were taught to follow your last order, then bring to someone's attention. Also, as a young corporal, I was taught, that sometimes you have to do that, to make the separation to a leadership position. Maybe under the context, it was wrong, but respect the rank, if you don't respect the man.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 29 at 2022 8:47 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sun, 29 May 2022 20:47:38 -0400

Response by SGT Daniel Merriman made May 30 at 2022 8:22 AM

SGT Daniel Merriman — Mon, 30 May 2022 08:22:09 -0400

You'd be in the leaning rest until you ETSed

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2022 10:20 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 31 May 2022 10:20:46 -0400

11c Nco here, I would have to say you are in the right. As the experienced gunner, that is your gun and the way the gun operates is determined by you and only you. Don’t be afraid to tell an nco they are wrong. Even a… cpl lol

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made May 31 at 2022 12:26 PM

SFC Dennis Yancy — Tue, 31 May 2022 12:26:24 -0400

You handles situation way wrong. NCO should have turned it into a training situation and you would have been training him. NCO should have been smart enough to realize he was not up to speed. Being in that situation as a SFC when reclassed to Patriot from Nike-Hercules I worked with my troops and learned from them. Besides they all knew I was behind power curve and it was in their interest to get me up to speed.

Response by Sgt Rowena Howard made May 31 at 2022 4:18 PM

Sgt Rowena Howard — Tue, 31 May 2022 16:18:47 -0400

Wrong is wrong and two wrong makes no one right. There is a chain of command and it dictates have business is done in the military. It doesn't say anything about who came first, who knows the most about the position or even who will be the last man standing in that position when all the chips fall. It's about rank and respect. Plain and simple and all wrapped up in a nutshell. You know you owe him a very humble (please don't take my rank and kick me out) apology. If the military is where you want to be, you most definitely need to know your place, know your rank and follow the chain of command. Teach instead of being disrespectful and you will go far.

Response by SFC James Cortez made Jun 1 at 2022 10:42 AM

SFC James Cortez — Wed, 01 Jun 2022 10:42:51 -0400

This guy is clearly trying to pull everyone's leg! Don't fall for this ridiculous post!

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made Jun 1 at 2022 10:41 PM

CW5 Mark Smith — Wed, 01 Jun 2022 22:41:41 -0400

Long before my time, there were SPC5 thru SPC9. Even then an NCO out ranked them all. Yes, even a lowly CORPORAL.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Jun 3 at 2022 12:49 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Fri, 03 Jun 2022 12:49:37 -0400

In a word, yes. You are fortunate he did not write you up and get an Article 15 going.

Response by SSG James Knopp made Jun 4 at 2022 10:00 PM

SSG James Knopp — Sat, 04 Jun 2022 22:00:41 -0400

Regardless of rank and his inept perception of his newly appointed duties being a service member requires one to have discipline enough to corral their immediate thoughts. Or otherwise don’t let your mouth write a check you can’t cash.
Having been an NCO I would of first pulled you aside and verbally reprimanded you. If the verbal abuse then continued, then I guess we would of walked it up the ladder. We all know in the military when a soldier is given a promotion it will be their opportunity to show their newly given responsibility to their subordinates.

Response by CPL Lee Tinsley made Jun 17 at 2022 4:24 AM

CPL Lee Tinsley — Fri, 17 Jun 2022 04:24:20 -0400

Actually, yes. Because He is an NCO. Nevertheless, all new NCO"s should learn more about Their soldiers who is under the leadership.

Response by SFC Darwin Maring made Jun 20 at 2022 11:26 AM

SFC Darwin Maring — Mon, 20 Jun 2022 11:26:57 -0400

There is a respectful way to let him know he is wrong. Being disrespectful is not the way.

Response by CPL Gilbert Fernandez made Jun 24 at 2022 12:20 AM

CPL Gilbert Fernandez — Fri, 24 Jun 2022 00:20:51 -0400

He might deserve your comment but he still is a noncom! In my day I would have made you eat that bag and would have had the support of my entire chain of command. In the military seniority doesn't count though a good leader will find a way to incorporate authority with common sense, shut up and learn from those who have the experience. Still, he out ranks you and as a noncom you deserved to be put down. You're in the military boy quit acting like your privileged. Embrace the suck it will make you a better man Instead of a wimpy sniveler. Most people in today's military wouldn't have made in my day. When you had a disagreement with your noncoms and didn't like the treatment, you embraced the suck or took it behind the barracks got your whooping and the went had a beer. Not today with stress cards and all the wokeness! You're always going to have someone above you that knows less than you, teach them that you're a better man by embracing the suck. They will get it if you go into combat.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2022 8:57 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 08:57:12 -0400

A bag lol

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2022 9:03 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 09:03:54 -0400

What does 'smoke' mean?

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Jun 28 at 2022 11:57 AM

CPL Sheila Lewis — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 11:57:11 -0400

Well, it's never a good idea to tell anyone to eat a bag of anything....new Corporal was wrong for not listening because he needs to learn from those already doing the job...and You were wrong for giving into your ego instead of your professionalism.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Jun 28 at 2022 2:04 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 14:04:38 -0400

If he's your team leader, then telling him to "eat a bag of dicks" was wrong. You may well know more about how to operate a mortar. But you don't address your team leader that way, whether you're more experienced or not.

Response by CPL William Harper made Jun 29 at 2022 3:12 PM

CPL William Harper — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 15:12:33 -0400

Yes! Full stop! As one person stated you speak offline and resolve. Full stop!

Response by SPC Jason Halper made Jul 11 at 2022 11:26 AM

SPC Jason Halper — Mon, 11 Jul 2022 11:26:50 -0400

Being realistic, everybody has to start somewhere to learn how to be a leader. In this case, both of you have responsibility. Your corporal‘s responsibility is to learn and grow as a leader whereas your responsibility is help teach him how to be better. I dealt with the same situation many times, it was very difficult because no one was really sure what to do. Reality goes that regardless of rank, you guys need to rely on each other for help and support, especially when shit is hitting the fan. I dealt with many people that were promoted to corporal that had no business being in leader ship, with disastrous results. However each person adapts to positions in their own way, a true team will help build on the weaknesses through education and coaching versus telling each other off.

Response by CW4 Ken Grady made Jul 15 at 2022 1:31 PM

CW4 Ken Grady — Fri, 15 Jul 2022 13:31:59 -0400

Simple.... "what if" you were a Corporal and you told someone to do something and they gave you that response? Don't play the "But this" game... only facts... you're a Corporal and you asked one of your Soldiers to do something and the response was eat a bag of #$%s.... Your response?

Response by CPL Richard Hughes made Jul 16 at 2022 11:24 AM

CPL Richard Hughes — Sat, 16 Jul 2022 11:24:51 -0400

When I was a Corporal. If you came back and said something like that to me. I would have started UCMJ proceedings against you for insubordination.
You are completely in the wrong here troop.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 16 at 2022 5:22 PM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Sat, 16 Jul 2022 17:22:08 -0400

I assume this was a training environment. Training is where everyone gets trained, including the NCO's, especially dry training, that is where mistakes can be made, evaluated, reflected upon. The simple solution would have been to have a sidebar, explain yourself respectfully, and failing that, you then go to the squad leader. Getting into a pissing contest, regardless of how right you are, immediately puts you in the wrong. He is the NCO, you are not. The minute you refused to obey, and then told him to eat a bag of dicks lost you any moral, professional, and situational high ground. You should have either pulled the TM to show where he was going wrong, or requested to see the squad leader. Hell, if no rounds were being sent down range, you could have stated your argument, let him make his mistakes, and waited for the AAR. You subverted his authority, disobeyed an order, and disrespected an NCO. All 3 are separate infractions of the UCMJ. Two wrongs will never make a right. I have been in your shoes SPC. The first time, I did as you did, and paid mightily for it. The second time, I learned from the first, and asked for a side bar, explained myself without the arrogance or derision, and the matter was amicably solved.

Response by CMDCM Tom Vinson made Jul 16 at 2022 5:23 PM

CMDCM Tom Vinson — Sat, 16 Jul 2022 17:23:14 -0400

You were absolutely wrong. That corporal was assigned as the team leader, which puts him in charge...period. That's positional authority assigned to him by your immediate chain of command, whether you approve or agree or not. Your job is to obey all lawful orders...period. As for his Smoke order, that sounds punitive which is outside his authority. But any lawful order leading up to that you must follow regardless of your opinion that you're more technically qualified. So get the chip off your shoulder and get back to work.

Response by MSG William Wold made Jul 17 at 2022 5:39 PM

MSG William Wold — Sun, 17 Jul 2022 17:39:04 -0400

Doesn’t matter if you out rank him or not. He’s in charge period. My step son as. major was lut in charge of a public affairs department at the Pentagon. A 4 star put him there. There were LT colonel’s and two generals n the department. The 4 star said in a meeting, he’s in charge and everyone in this room answers to him. If ya’ll have an issue with that because of tank get up and leave now.

Response by Sgt William Boyd made Jul 17 at 2022 6:33 PM

Sgt William Boyd — Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:33:47 -0400

Disobeying a direct order from (any Senior Ranking NCO), will get you in BIG TROUBLE! Having you standing tall in front of THE MAN. Lock that EGO UP!, EXCUTE, RESPECT, AND OBEY any senior leader in charge of the mission! It AIT BOUT YOU!! (MISSION IS PARAMOUNT, TO BS!!
Now carry on TROOP!!

Response by CPL T.A. Nelson made Jul 19 at 2022 12:36 PM

CPL T.A. Nelson — Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:36:51 -0400

Disrespecting a junior NCO is not good but you should have inforrmed him he was wrong and run it up the chain of command. You could have set yourself up for an Article 15...

Response by LTC George Morgan made Jul 20 at 2022 12:53 AM

LTC George Morgan — Wed, 20 Jul 2022 00:53:56 -0400

SPC Adrian Gomez - I find it amusing that you should even ask such a question in point of fact, I wholeheartedly support the response to you by SFC Thomas Livingston.

Think yourself lucky that you were not in my Army when I was a SNCO. You would not have just been "Smoked" by me, but you would have then been marched, under guard, into the Guardroom for charging, on two counts. (1) Disrespecting an NCO, (2) Conduct unbecoming for good order and discipline. This before being taken outside and "Beasted" in extremis. Something you remember for the rest of your life; it is also quite possible that you would be reduced in rank! I know of some commanders, who may also recommend a dishonourable discharge.

Response by SCPO Victor Glaviano made Jul 25 at 2022 12:43 PM

SCPO Victor Glaviano — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 12:43:49 -0400

IDK... In the Navy and Marine Corps a Corporal and PO3 are NCOs. The Army and Air Force Specialists or Senior Airman aren't, Corporals I suppose are??
Telling anyone to eat a bag of dicks probably doesn't accomplish much of anything, albeit funny, you should try to work as a team!

Response by PV2 Lonn Dugan made Jul 25 at 2022 1:41 PM

PV2 Lonn Dugan — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 13:41:02 -0400

Since when is a Corporal an NCO ?

Response by Cpl Brian Ruby made Jul 25 at 2022 9:34 PM

Cpl Brian Ruby — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 21:34:56 -0400

1. Good thing you are not in the Marine Corps. 2. Good thing you were not under me. You would have been standing tall before the man.

Response by 1SG Donald Dillman made Jul 26 at 2022 8:56 AM

1SG Donald Dillman — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 08:56:46 -0400

First of all, name calling is not appropriate when addressing rank. Respect first. If there was a disagreement, and a conclusion could not be determined, them both should have cheeked with higher authority. A Squad Leader of Plt Sgt.
The Corporal was doing his job, mistakes DO happen, but respect comes first.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2022 9:03 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 09:03:52 -0400

If you don't correct your attitude, you could be a terminal E-4.

Response by PO3 Robert Cassidy made Aug 9 at 2022 3:51 AM

PO3 Robert Cassidy — Tue, 09 Aug 2022 03:51:45 -0400

You were wrong, but you know that. Probably an emotional overreaction to his wrong "corrective action" command. He is the leader and should lead by first apologizing to you and then you do the same. Then the two of you can use each others wisdom to learn how to do what the two disagree on the best way.

Response by CPL Manuel Lopez made Aug 15 at 2022 12:44 AM

CPL Manuel Lopez — Mon, 15 Aug 2022 00:44:47 -0400

A CPL is a Jr. NCO as such out ranks any specialist E-4, and has legal authority to order a specialist to do anything not restricted by the UCMJ as unlawful.

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made Aug 20 at 2022 5:44 PM

LCpl Michael Cappello — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 17:44:44 -0400

Ahh . I can, yet again, see the prominent and highly noticeable, difference between the Army and Marine Corps. Go figure. first of all, if he was put in a position of authority over you then, he was your superior at that time. Second, even though you are both E-4, a "Hard Stripe" (corporal) E-4 generally outranks a Specialist. Third, and most importantly, YOU are a PROFESSIONAL warrior. As such, you lead BY EXAMPLE. What you did was unprofessional and NOT the example you should be setting if you want to be a leader yourself. Not only did you cross the line, you undermined any respect and power over the FNG you would have held when taking the situation to your NCOIC. I also do not like or respect your disrespect for a fellow service member being Gung Ho (super hooah). Motivation and Esprit De Corps are things any GOOD leader of people should be encouraging and inspiring. NOT making fun of or using as an example of something wrong.

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made Sep 6 at 2022 11:51 PM

SPC Daniel Rankin — Tue, 06 Sep 2022 23:51:33 -0400

I am sorry, but as a spc myself that is the dumbest question I have ever read or heard. YOu should know better then do that at all. Take it to the lead to have the situation corrected.

Response by CPL C Williams made Sep 7 at 2022 11:06 AM

CPL C Williams — Wed, 07 Sep 2022 11:06:19 -0400

You must have lost your mind. A Cpl is an NCO rank. Second those who are Cpl's are considered outstanding soldiers who have shown a high degree maturity and a great attention to detail in the performance of their duties. As stated earlier you should have been brought up on UCMJ.

Response by SGT Kenneth Rand made Sep 8 at 2022 9:54 AM

SGT Kenneth Rand — Thu, 08 Sep 2022 09:54:50 -0400

It shows how jealousy is an ugly color maybe if you'd tried harder you'd have been promoted. Buy the super Hookah comment shows that the other guy is invested in his career and you're collecting a paycheck. It doesn't matter that you're both E-4 your professionalism in that situation proved that your not ready for the rank you're wearing yes you know the job but you don't know your place.

Response by CPL Matt James made Sep 9 at 2022 9:12 AM

CPL Matt James — Fri, 09 Sep 2022 09:12:46 -0400

No, as a retired corporal (yes, retired), we are the hall monitors of the E4 mafia. In the army, it's a rank where E5+ can dump the boring tasks to us. All the SNCOs in this thread just don't want the truth to get out.

Response by SSG Derick Walker made Sep 9 at 2022 12:10 PM

SSG Derick Walker — Fri, 09 Sep 2022 12:10:28 -0400

During my time in the Army, tact is always important when dealing with NCO who may not know. However, even if you were right, you made yourself wrong by becoming Disrespectful to a non-commissioned officer. You are lucky that he only offered corrective training and not UCMJ.

Response by MAJ Anthony DeStefano made Oct 1 at 2022 12:17 PM

MAJ Anthony DeStefano — Sat, 01 Oct 2022 12:17:58 -0400

It is never right to insult a superior like that and I would have handled it differently..some people go by the adage that you have to assume command in a hard line fashion and then you can back off a bit, but you cannot go in soft and get harder because you have already shown you are candy... that may or may not be true... WHen I got ot of OCS, my platoon sargeant, a Vietnam combat veteran, asked me aside for a few words...he said sir, pleas forget all the bullshit they taught you at OCS, all that hard charger shit...he said God gave you two ears and two eys but only one mouth...I am asking you to use them in that proportion for three weeks...listen observe and speak very little. When I think you're ready, you will know without question... so I did. I asked permission of my signal soldiers to enter their multichannel, patch panel, switch RATT rigs and other vans and also asked if they could teach their ignorant shave tail so I could better lead them in the future and they were very happy to do that... I drove grounding rods with slege hammers and helped put up fly swatter antennas to 110 fwet - a dangerous proposition. I loved it all...so ond day the platoon sargeant calls the unit to attention does a perfect about faces and renders the finest looking salute.. In a very loud voice he declared SIR, the PLATOON is YOURS! I was fighting back tears... so the point is there is a right way to assume command at any level and I believe mr bag o dicks should have done what I did

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Oct 23 at 2022 4:08 PM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 16:08:43 -0400

Yes the corporal can have you do corrective actions. The action should reflect the situation that would help you. After that, you could have pulled the corporal to the side and talked to him about your concerns, you would have received a better outcome

Response by SPC Vonnie Jones made Oct 23 at 2022 7:51 PM

SPC Vonnie Jones — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 19:51:27 -0400

Well hate to say it, but rank has its privileges. It would have been better to help him out/teach him. Now a new position can go to a person head especially a first assignment as a leader! Now mind you a bad leader will be found out, some one watching the watcher will call him on his actions/treatment. Just remember when it comes to orders from a higher up you have to carry them out except if they are unlawful orders and even that has been a subject of debate. Also remember your leader has a leader, if you think it unlawful you got a change of command. Experience in the civilian world will get you power and money, but in the military it will get you certain awards that will eventually get you a promotion. When you get your rank hopefully you will remember how you were treated and treat your troops with dignity. Best regards and remember rank has its privileges.

Response by SrA Janice Heebsh made Oct 26 at 2022 8:08 AM

SrA Janice Heebsh — Wed, 26 Oct 2022 08:08:14 -0400

"Leaders are only as good as the men around them". Some NCOs and Officers have no idea what the hell they're doing, and if what he was telling you to do was clearly wrong, you were right to correct and call him out for an order that was procedurally and factually wrong. How else is he supposed to know?
Now, I say that, but just know that theres always 2 answers to a question. The "right" answer, based on your knowledge of the regs and experience, and the "branch" answer -which often has nothing to do with the regs or experience. Its based on "getting the mission done at all costs" and its 9/10 times the most stupid. BUT its often levied by brass and rank. If you're gonna challenge brass and rank, be prepared to be smoked. The key is standing your ground and using your knowledge of the regs to back up your actions.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2022 11:55 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2022 11:55:31 -0400

I’ve informed many NCOs they were wrong or the orders they are giving would take up more time than we have. Some listened others did not. So stuff was damaged or took a lot longer. I’ll follow the dumb order then laugh or shake my head when it goes wrong, unless someone’s life could be in danger.

Response by SSG Douglas Shaffer made Oct 26 at 2022 7:35 PM

SSG Douglas Shaffer — Wed, 26 Oct 2022 19:35:58 -0400

I hope he smokes the crap out of you, wrong or right it doesn't matter if you wish to correct anyone be sure to have the correct information with you and approach the subject tactfully, in the meantime how is that Bag of Dicks going down for you.

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made Oct 27 at 2022 1:26 PM

Cpl Jeff Ruffing — Thu, 27 Oct 2022 13:26:02 -0400

Really? I can’t believe this question. When are you boots gonna learn? If your higher up gives you a command, and as long as it is not gonna endanger lives, you may Tactfully state your disagreement by ways of saying,” I’m a little perplexed. We’ve always done it this way, is this the new way I haven’t been informed of?” Wait for his/her response. If he/she insists, then do it in a safe manner. When it blows up in their face, don’t do a victory dance. Just let it marinate in their mind. Never challenge a superior. Your gonna lose. Learn to be creative in messing with them tactically. It’s much more fun and you learn how to deal with idiots. Something you will need when you ETS.

Response by Sgt Casey R. made Oct 27 at 2022 6:51 PM

Sgt Casey R. — Thu, 27 Oct 2022 18:51:51 -0400

Yea you were, but I don't blame you, just don't get mad at what comes after it....military life is all cause and effect, with context serving very little....if you felt the Cpl was wrong you should have rogered up and went to the Sgt, then if you didnt like his answer to the SSgt, and so on. Hard for some to swallow but you do your duty first, then contemplate the justification for how you feel about it, unless he's asking you to do something dangerous you just "aye aye" and that way if you present it and did everything a junior service member should do it gives your arguement more weight when you bring it up....course you could just wait till after work hours and jump him if he's being a douche...you know like it should be...then just say he fell. Basically what im sayin is rank has its privileges but you also can hang yourself with that same rope if your not careful.

Response by PO1 David M Burns made Dec 5 at 2022 9:51 PM

PO1 David M Burns — Mon, 05 Dec 2022 21:51:03 -0500

If you are so stupid as to have to ask that question, you deserve three days of P and P!

Response by SSG Rick Miller made Dec 8 at 2022 5:53 PM

SSG Rick Miller — Thu, 08 Dec 2022 17:53:43 -0500

He should have smoked your arrogant ass right away, then recommended you for an Article 15. Just because you're the same pay grade doesn't make you equal. So what you've been doing it longer, so what you're the gunner. If he was wrong, show him where he went wrong and how he went wrong, but be tactful. He's got the hard stripes and you've got the sham shield. He tells you to drop, you fucking well better drop. Get over yourself, stop being an asshole, and yes, you were not only wrong, you were insubordinate and disrespectful.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Dec 9 at 2022 8:11 AM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Fri, 09 Dec 2022 08:11:15 -0500

Tell A CORPORAL That?
Of COURSE You Can...
And HE Can Take Your Loud Mouth Ass Behind The Barracks
And BEAT The Living SH*T Out Of You For Being STUPID Enough
To Say That To Him.....

Response by SGT Christopher Sigafoos made Dec 17 at 2022 3:04 PM

SGT Christopher Sigafoos — Sat, 17 Dec 2022 15:04:51 -0500

1) He is an NCO. Him smoking you is up to your Commander and 1SG. In 99% of cases, he is more than capable of doing so.
2) Telling him to "eat a bag of dicks" is straight up disrespect and punishable by UCMJ Article 91.

The best course of action would have been to drop and just let it go. If it is absolutely necessary to inform him of the correct action to perform large deflections, do so in private and lead with "My experience has taught me that blah blah blah is the correct set of actions.." But above all, remain respectful.

Response by SFC Charles Stevenson made Jan 2 at 2023 9:36 AM

SFC Charles Stevenson — Mon, 02 Jan 2023 09:36:42 -0500

I retired as a 13E/C (Arty equivalent to 11C) over 20 years ago. The idea that you even think there is ANY acceptable reason to tell an NCO to eat a bag of dicks bewilders me. The fact that you had time to make this post and aren't still being smoked also saddens me.

Response by SPC David Young made Jan 3 at 2023 8:57 PM

SPC David Young — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 20:57:30 -0500

Just a little bit of info for you in the event that you are a soldier in the US Army, still on active duty. You just openly confessed on a public forum to disrespecting an NCO. Even if you were "smoked", that offense is still punishable under the UCMJ. Someone from your chain of command could copy and print what you say here, attach it to a counseling form and use it as evidence against you!

Response by PO3 James Bobiney made Jan 3 at 2023 9:43 PM

PO3 James Bobiney — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 21:43:28 -0500

Yes and yes. Sheesh. If this is the quality of Soldiers we have now God help us.

Response by CW4 Edmund Parowski made Jan 4 at 2023 2:35 AM

CW4 Edmund Parowski — Wed, 04 Jan 2023 02:35:03 -0500

He can order you to charge up a hill through enemy gunfire to near certain death. Yeah, I'm guessing he can make you do a few push-ups.

Response by SGT Andrew Anderson made Jan 4 at 2023 10:53 AM

SGT Andrew Anderson — Wed, 04 Jan 2023 10:53:58 -0500

I know a lot of things have changed since I left the military, however, I hope that something like saying what was said to any NCO or being disrespectful to an NCO, be it a corporal or a CSM, is not acceptable in any way. I would like to convey just a short story of my experience with a "Corporal" who I met during my first year in the Army. I had been stationed with the 18th Infantry at Fort Riley right out of AIT. It was a great duty station, it was, however, shortlived. After only 6 months, I got orders for Germany and arrived at Co A 1st Bn, 51st Infantry in the late afternoon of 17 December 1963. I was assigned to the 4th Squad, 3d Platoon. On the following morning, I was awakened by an old, yelling, screaming madman. After getting out to my first formation I glanced down to the right end of my squad and there stood that old, crazy "Corporal". What the hell have I gotten into? I thought this kind of stuff & craziness ended with basic and AIT. I asked the guy next to me who the hell is the old guy, and his only response was "you'll find out pretty quick". Great, I still had another couple of years to do and I ended up with a lunatic for a squad leader. Long story short, Corporal Beasil Gartman was a highly decorated WWII Marine Veteran. He had a break in the service and rejoined the US Army to finish out his career. Corporal Gartman was the recipient of 2 purple hearts, and 2 bronze stars with "V" devices along with numerous other awards. He was wounded in the Battle of Guadalcanal as a member of the 1st Marine Division and after recovering he was again wounded in the Battle of Peleliu. Corporal Gartman was highly regarded throughout our Battalion and whenever there was a Battalion event, parade, or ceremony, Corporal Gartman was right up there on the reviewing stand along with the Battalion CO and the CSM. Corporal Gartman was probably the most influential person, to me, of anyone I met in nine years of service. His knowledge of the military was far superior to anyone I had ever come across and because of that knowledge and his ability to relate his experience to his squad, our squad was always among those recognized by the Bn. CO, our Company CO, and Platoon Leader. We were given 3-day passes (a big deal in 60s), an exemption from Saturday morning full field inspections, etc. There are so many stories about Corporal Gartman, I could write a book.
Anyway, when I went to Vietnam, because of what I learned from Corporal Gartman, I didn't say, what would Jesus do, I'd say what would "Corporal Gartman" do? So when I saw this post, I just smiled and imagined how Corporal Gartman would have reacted if anyone would have had the balls to tell him to "eat a bag of dicks". It would have been an amusing site to witness. By the way, Corporal Gartman was a Staff Sergeant when I left Germany in 1966.

Response by LTC Pete Moore made Jan 4 at 2023 10:03 PM

LTC Pete Moore — Wed, 04 Jan 2023 22:03:51 -0500

I don’t want you touching any tubes in my AO. Find another line of work, you are ill suited for the Army. You lack the maturity, you lack the self control, and frankly you lack the intelligence! If you really completed basic training you know that you’re a soup sandwich PV1… former Specialist that’s NOT a NCO. Was that “wrong”? What does everyone think?

Response by SMSgt Kurt Anderson made Jan 4 at 2023 10:25 PM

SMSgt Kurt Anderson — Wed, 04 Jan 2023 22:25:11 -0500

In the USAF, punishment can only be administered under ucmj rules. That means legal action like Art.15, not random acts by according to happens to have one more stripe.

Response by SGM Andre Turner made Jan 5 at 2023 1:27 PM

SGM Andre Turner — Thu, 05 Jan 2023 13:27:32 -0500

You are wrong young man!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2023 3:14 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Jan 2023 15:14:59 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member why are you still "milking" this post...

Response by SSgt David M. made Jan 5 at 2023 10:46 PM

SSgt David M. — Thu, 05 Jan 2023 22:46:30 -0500

My take on this is that you need to return to basic to relearn just what the Chain of Command starts at. Disrespect to any NCO or Officer placed in charge of you has total authority over you. It does not matter how you feel about what the NCO did or said to you. I do hope that they wrote you up and placed you in some disciplinary corrective action plan. You might consider ETS or finding another Unit to transfer to. I do hope that you now understand just how stupid you are for telling the 'New Corporal' to eat a bag of dicks'. It is apparent that you are one very special kind of stupid! Do you not realize just how difficult your new Corporal has found his new position to be? I had a great way to work with my Fellow Soldiers in MY Motor Pool. I was an E-5 appointed as a BN Motor Sgt. I had 11 other Soldiers under me that I had to chase down and verify that they were doing repairs to vehicles in our Motor Pool. My first question each morning after assigning jobs was were they reading the TM for the vehicle type that they were working on and reading the details about the repairs they had been assigned to do? My next statement was always to see me if they ran into any issues with the repair. I then would turn them loose but would check on them after an hour if they did not return to me for another assignment. I had my share of blockheads that really had to business working in a Motor Pool as they had no mechanical skills, but I was there to teach and assist, and often times had to do the repair myself with them assisting. I believed in the 'We are in this all together' statement. We worked together as one and not one against each other! I would have given you a written reprimand and requested extra duty for five days. This usually was limited to clean up detail of the Motor Pool, painting of vehicles, or clean up of tools in the tool room. As NCOIC I had limited authority to do much other than request assistance from the TOP. It did work while I was there but after two years I ETS'd, but it had nothing to do with the Soldiers I worked with. I had a Permanent P-3 Profile and could not get promoted to E-6. I did all I could to have each of my Soldiers promoted and pushed for 3 day passes for good work in garrison and in the field. I Salute All My Fellow Soldiers, Veterans, and their Families!!! GOD Bless America!!!

Response by SGT Joseph Stephany made Jan 6 at 2023 1:03 PM

SGT Joseph Stephany — Fri, 06 Jan 2023 13:03:00 -0500

I just do not understand your thought process here. regardless of what you felt at that time or your reason. You have to holster that shit! Man up and move on from it. Somehow I do not believe this to be a one time thing. If you had disagreement with each other. First thing, you follow the lawful command. Later take your disagreement to the Corporal or go to your platoon Sergent to resolve. I'm reading some anger in your statement. Brother talk to someone regarding it. Just my opinion.

Response by MSgt Michael Madden made Jan 6 at 2023 2:00 PM

MSgt Michael Madden — Fri, 06 Jan 2023 14:00:16 -0500

My short answer is YES. You are of lesser rank. You have no other option.

Response by CPT Eireanne Russ made Jan 6 at 2023 6:33 PM

CPT Eireanne Russ — Fri, 06 Jan 2023 18:33:27 -0500

Hard core is good for survival in battle but sucks in garrison. You could have made a few points with him of you had instead followed instructions, then found a quiet moment afterwards, pulled out the manual and showed him where he had made his mistake.

Food for thought, if you are asking the question, you already know the answer. A Corporal has hard stripes. You were wrong, and if you are as good as you think you are, you might have had a chance to be a corporal, but that ship may have sailed.

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made Jan 6 at 2023 8:00 PM

PO1 Don Uhrig — Fri, 06 Jan 2023 20:00:36 -0500

Are you expecting anyone to say you were right? You need a remedial course in self-discipline and respect. You could have handled the situation a lot better with even a modicum of self control. And, where exactly do you get a bag of dicks?

Response by SSG Sharon Fields made Jan 6 at 2023 8:29 PM

SSG Sharon Fields — Fri, 06 Jan 2023 20:29:11 -0500

You were definitely wrong. Should have done what you were told to do and then you could have taken your complaint up the chain. What about those younger troops that were looking to you for an example? Would you like it if they treated you like that? You would have had a lot more trouble on your hands than doing some push ups if it would have been me you said it to. If this is what is allowed to happen in our military today it is no wonder the military branches are having problems.

Response by CPL Harry Daniel made Jan 7 at 2023 6:31 PM

CPL Harry Daniel — Sat, 07 Jan 2023 18:31:30 -0500

So if you were in a firefight and were given an order, will you give the same response? What if you were in the Corporal's predicament

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Jan 15 at 2023 10:53 PM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Sun, 15 Jan 2023 22:53:53 -0500

Regardless of who was correct, you were wrong. I was known as easy going among the men under me, but if someone gave me a line like that, I probably would have smoked them boot camp style. Did I come up against my superiors, heck yea, and more than once, but I did it disrespectfully, and made sure I was ready to give the reason, and site at least the reg if not quote it.

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Jan 20 at 2023 9:58 AM

SGT Erick Holmes — Fri, 20 Jan 2023 09:58:51 -0500

Now you know there are former military members that come from the "REAL" before you could even say the words "eat a bag of dicks" you would have been in the woodline conducting training. On the flip side of this I get what your saying and I'm sure there is more to this however, you know better to say this. He is an NCO. A Jr. NCO is treated with the same respect as a Sr. NCO. Ask yourself would you have said this to CSM or CSM of The Army? My advice is to take the Corporal to the side (if you haven't done it all ready) and sincerely apologize. I may not make a difference at all but at least your trying to mend the situation. You need to take a ccountability for what you done and said and man up to that and use this a teachable moment. I hope all works out well in this. Keep us updated.

Response by SPC Douglas Hearron made Feb 2 at 2023 3:50 PM

SPC Douglas Hearron — Thu, 02 Feb 2023 15:50:19 -0500

Wow can’t believe this was an actual question!! But I guess not to be expected from the new softer army these days. Guess that’s why there’s little discipline anymore. I guess it’s unheard of to be smoked anymore, probably too hard on these softies.

Response by LCpl Jeff Moore made Feb 4 at 2023 12:51 PM

LCpl Jeff Moore — Sat, 04 Feb 2023 12:51:43 -0500

I see a art 15 in your future. Maybe time to learn how to tactical correct him

Response by SPC David Matsche made Feb 12 at 2023 6:35 PM

SPC David Matsche — Sun, 12 Feb 2023 18:35:16 -0500

You handled it wrong. You told an NCO to eat a bag of dicks, you should've just went hooah and took him to the side later with the receipts of why you were right.... respectfully. Jesus the fact that you even asked this makes me worried.

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made Feb 12 at 2023 10:40 PM

CW5 Mark Smith — Sun, 12 Feb 2023 22:40:09 -0500

Your disrespectful and ill advised comment should result in your signature block being changed to PFC.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Feb 13 at 2023 4:04 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Mon, 13 Feb 2023 04:04:32 -0500

The corporal is an NCO. He could (and should) write your ass up for disrespecting an NCO, which is punishable under the UCMJ.

Response by SGT Jay Cee made Feb 13 at 2023 4:08 PM

SGT Jay Cee — Mon, 13 Feb 2023 16:08:21 -0500

Well, kinda depends on how many dicks you imagined to be in that bag! I mean, if its like...five...or 10, damn, I'd recommend UCMJ action against you lol. I think the key is intent

Response by SSG Edward Rogers made Feb 13 at 2023 4:57 PM

SSG Edward Rogers — Mon, 13 Feb 2023 16:57:51 -0500

The difference between a SPC and a Corporal, is the very fact the corporal is a NCO, I don't care if you were in Mortars since Moses was a child, You disrespected a NCO, As a SFC if you did this in my section you would be under an Article 91 so fast your head would be spinning, You may not respect the man, in my unit, but you will respect his rank. If you have an issue with the man, then I would bring it to the Platoon SGT's attention, FIRST.

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Feb 13 at 2023 7:23 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Mon, 13 Feb 2023 19:23:59 -0500

This can’t be real. Unless you’re on KP on the serving line and the mess hall is serving bags of dicks, I can’t imagine anyone having to ask if it’s ok to tell an NCO to eat them.

Response by LTC Charles Patchin made Feb 14 at 2023 1:31 PM

LTC Charles Patchin — Tue, 14 Feb 2023 13:31:25 -0500

You are a very lucky PVT, or that is what you should be. There are ways to help yourself help a new section member and leader. Obviously you didn't do this and will now, hopefully, be transferred out to a different section where you will not be a thorn in the side of an NCO.
you lost it. He is an NCO. You are not. Your Mafia connections will not help you should you be Art 15ed or court martialed for insubordination.

Response by PO3 Paul Roth made Feb 14 at 2023 5:59 PM

PO3 Paul Roth — Tue, 14 Feb 2023 17:59:13 -0500

I would have had you in front of the CO on an article 15. Even though you are the same pay grade someone higher and mightier than both of you. Thought he was a better candidate to be in a leadership position than you. Therefore you respect him for the leadership position he is in not because of grade but because of position. What are you showing the people under you. Think you need to do some self reflection on why you’re not in a leadership position for the example you set is not a leader.

Response by SSG James Knopp made Feb 14 at 2023 11:18 PM

SSG James Knopp — Tue, 14 Feb 2023 23:18:05 -0500

One’s intelligence is defined by the language you use.
Personally, a good leader would pull aside the offender and discuss the issue at had to see if it needs to go the chain. Some of our soldiers today come into the fold feeling entitled and rebel against authority.

Response by SP5 Larry (Lawrence) Pitman made Feb 15 at 2023 12:02 AM

SP5 Larry (Lawrence) Pitman — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 00:02:28 -0500

"Tact" is the art of telling someone to go to hell.....and have him look forward to the trip. Try some tact next time.

Response by A1C Diane Phillips made Feb 15 at 2023 2:00 AM

A1C Diane Phillips — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 02:00:37 -0500

Such horrific language! I can't even imagine that someone would think that was all right to say in the first place!

Response by SSgt W. Aaron Gregory made Feb 15 at 2023 3:22 PM

SSgt W. Aaron Gregory — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 15:22:43 -0500

Whole lotta boatload wrong for even bringing this up. You have a chain of command and methods of redress. Telling your NCOs and Senior NCOs to eat a bag of dicks because you're the most senior NON-NCO in the MOS there? Are you kidding me? Your collar and shoulder boards should be empty.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Feb 15 at 2023 8:57 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 20:57:39 -0500

First things first, IDGAMF how new this corporal is to your unit! You don't disrespect my g--damn NCOs!!! Secondly, I get that he's new to your MOS. Did you consider that what you learned at the unit with mortar employment is probably different from he learned at the schoolhouse? That's usually how it is. So square him away after you get up from the corrective action. Thirdly, you were seventeen levels of wrong for saying what you said and I'm surprised he didn't slam you on your neck for it! That's what would have happened back when I was in!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2023 10:15 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 22:15:20 -0500

Be greatful they only smoked you, that was a significant amount of mercy on their part. Administrative action hurts a lot more and for much longer. You could have been hit with an Article 15, lost what little rank you have and a good chunk of your pay, while being put on extra duty, restricted travel off post, or worse. That you choose the tell him to "eat a bag of dicks" also opened you up to sexual harassment charges should anyone in your chain of command feel particularly vindictive towards you. That you feel no regret for making ignorant, flippant, disrespectful remarks, and then seen to think that you can get it justified with crowd sourced opinions, reinforces your ineptitude and lack of character. You are probably due an "Other then Honorable" discharge.

Response by SGT Drew Clifton made Feb 15 at 2023 11:00 PM

SGT Drew Clifton — Wed, 15 Feb 2023 23:00:33 -0500

Well that was about the dumbest thing you could have done. Obviously the squad leader saw fit to put him in that position so regardless of your experience he is the one in charge. It's okay to question things in a respectful manner but in this instance you somehow offended him. At this point just take your smoking like a man and later go speak to the squad leader with your concerns. If they fail to address them then go to your platoon Sgt and so on. You know, that thing called chain of command. Now because of your choice he would be well within his rights to push for a summarized article 15 at least. Maybe worse than that depending on your track record. My advice in the immediate future is to lose the ego and humble yourself. If you want to be the one in charge then put in the work to get there.

Response by SPC Lukas Mcwhorter made Feb 16 at 2023 4:13 AM

SPC Lukas Mcwhorter — Thu, 16 Feb 2023 04:13:02 -0500

Hahahahah nice

Response by SSgt Doug LeKander made Feb 16 at 2023 4:33 PM

SSgt Doug LeKander — Thu, 16 Feb 2023 16:33:37 -0500

Something tells me there is more to the story we aren't hearing as to how belligerent you came off to get smoked by your NCO. And yes your choice of words were wrong. You need to get your ego in check.

Response by SPC Jared Robbins made Feb 16 at 2023 5:36 PM

SPC Jared Robbins — Thu, 16 Feb 2023 17:36:45 -0500

I was a SPC, but was generally older and more knowledgeable and mature than most of my section NCOs. There was a few times when I was right about something and my NCO was wrong.
Never once did I let me temper get the best of me and tell him to eat a bag of Richards, though he deserved that at least once for being an ass once.
Keeping your cool, staying in your rank, and politely showing the correct methods would’ve saved you a whole lot of drama, there.
Curb your ego, or it’ll cost you big time, SPC.

Response by Cpl George Matousek made Feb 17 at 2023 11:43 AM

Cpl George Matousek — Fri, 17 Feb 2023 11:43:19 -0500

I am surprised he did not report you to the CO for office hours and perhaps a loss of rank, you cannot tell an NCO to eat a bag of anything

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2023 7:21 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 07:21:42 -0500

You have to respect an NCO that’s what I learn, you told me I will recommend you UCMG, for non respect for NCO

Response by SP5 Laurie Mixter made Feb 19 at 2023 4:45 PM

SP5 Laurie Mixter — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 16:45:24 -0500

Hi,
Do not tell him that, go up your chain of command and complain! Two wrongs do not make a right! He is an NCO, keep your mouth shut and talk to his supervisor, that is disrespecting an NCO!

Response by PVT Mark Whitcomb made Feb 19 at 2023 6:26 PM

PVT Mark Whitcomb — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 18:26:11 -0500

You are in the wrong and it is you who should eat a bag of dicks!!!!

Response by SSG Earl Corp made Feb 19 at 2023 9:34 PM

SSG Earl Corp — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 21:34:02 -0500

I see you’re in the National Guard. This explains how you were able to escape UCMJ. If you had been on active duty in 1981 there is a good bet you would have gotten your ass pounded then been in front of the platoon sergeant for some more counseling. Whether you’ve been an 11C longer than him didn’t give you the right to respond in that manner. As a corporal he had the authority to drop you. He also had the authority to give you an adverse counseling statement. If he wasn’t in your chain of command he still
Had the authority to drop you. To answer your question you wre dead wrong and by way of rank he has the authority.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2023 12:21 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 00:21:52 -0500

You both are E-4s, but a corporal is an NCO. I was a corporal once upon a time. We had more respect from the men and more authority to deal with bad behavior. The standard then was to "PT you to death". Except on a CAT 3 or 4 day. Then it would PT until the offender was very uncomfortable twice per day (dawn and dusk).
All kidding aside, you can do better than this. If you are a better and more experienced soldier than show it in your professionalism. Leave the "eat a bag of dicks" in your quarters to entertain your buddies.

Response by SGT J M Porters made Feb 20 at 2023 1:36 AM

SGT J M Porters — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 01:36:28 -0500

Not only would I have told you to get down but I would have also had you roll over. And I know you would not have a weekend pass because you would be too busy pulling guard duty. Not only do you need to get a check. You need to find a new hope also. Disagree in private is one thing public disrespect is a can of AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA KICKING.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2023 10:37 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Feb 2023 22:37:22 -0500

He is a Corporal, wherever he comes from. Okay, hot shot, so he doesn't walk on water. Your Mortar Section is gonna be hot one day if you ever decide to back up, regroup and sit down with that Corporal and talk abot business. Yeah, so he was wrong, be the professional mortar maggott we all know you cab be and show him how to hang a round or two the right way.

Response by PO1 Andrey Korobovsky made Mar 25 at 2023 7:34 AM

PO1 Andrey Korobovsky — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 07:34:36 -0400

Being disrespectful doesn’t accomplish anything. Go to a Sgt you respect and pose the same question to him, get your answer. But grow up first.

Response by SP5 Kim Windsor made Mar 25 at 2023 10:24 AM

SP5 Kim Windsor — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 10:24:11 -0400

Ucmj is the law you figure it out !

Response by SFC Rick LaFace made Mar 25 at 2023 10:35 AM

SFC Rick LaFace — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 10:35:14 -0400

You would have been reduced in the Army I came up in. And you probably should be anyway.

Response by SP6 Richard Kellar made Mar 25 at 2023 7:00 PM

SP6 Richard Kellar — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 19:00:57 -0400

Did he do that?

Response by SFC Ernest Thurston made Mar 25 at 2023 10:54 PM

SFC Ernest Thurston — Sat, 25 Mar 2023 22:54:20 -0400

I was in an MP Company that got a branch transfer Company Commander. He came from finance and had no clue about what MPs do, but he was the CO. Would never have thought of telling him off, and none of the other NCO would either. We patiently brought him up to speed. I was once put in a platoon sergeant position as an E-5 buck Sgt because the CO relieved the Platoon Sergeant and all the Squad leaders. My peers didn't question my authority not even once. I just happened to be the senior Sgt in the platoon. And some of the other NCO i was just a few months senior in Time in Grade.

Response by 1SG Steven Hadley made Mar 27 at 2023 2:27 AM

1SG Steven Hadley — Mon, 27 Mar 2023 02:27:46 -0400

If I were your 1SG you would not have a dick to eat! WTH ate you maggots being taught!!!

Response by PO1 David M Burns made Mar 27 at 2023 8:25 AM

PO1 David M Burns — Mon, 27 Mar 2023 08:25:00 -0400

A bag of dicks? Original but you should be standing before the CO, don,t bad mouth NCO,s you are lucky to be living in todays army,

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Mar 27 at 2023 6:34 PM

SGT Juan Robledo — Mon, 27 Mar 2023 18:34:38 -0400

Your wrong Period, I’m surprised you weren’t sent up the Chain for further Discipline, just because you have been in that MOS for a long time still doesn’t make how you behaved that day any less Disrespectful, you should check yourself and apologize, you have lost the respect of that Corporal

Response by SFC James Cortez made Mar 28 at 2023 8:00 AM

SFC James Cortez — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 08:00:43 -0400

This is a joke right? This guy thinks he's being funny right? If this guy represents the state of our Army today, we are in big trouble!

Response by SGT M C made Mar 28 at 2023 3:39 PM

SGT M C — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 15:39:40 -0400

Man this sure isn't the Army of 64-67 for which I think none of you so called soldiers would have survived. Basically as I remember it anyone with so much as more lint on their sleeve out ranked you and as long as the order was legal you obeyed. Having said that what is the purpose of ordering pushups whcih a basic traing ploy. If you are in violation of orders for legal reasons it's first non judiciary punishment from extra duty to article 15 and on and upwards from there! God help us!

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Mar 29 at 2023 1:44 PM

LCpl Steve Smith — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 13:44:24 -0400

I like you did something similar to a Boot Cpl. in my section I had more time in service than lol. Yes You like I was in the wrong lol you know it too. Yes I got my ass chewed out by my Lt. and had to do shit duty for a week. You and I should have just Sucked it up then if we still had an issue go up the chain of command to handle it. Now if your case you might have been correct with your knowledge of the job and if you would have taken it to your Sgt and up I'm sure they would have taken your side and would have locked that Cpl on. Remember you were Right up till you told off your Cpl lol next time take it up the chain. I in the Marine Corps 91-95 with 3/5 lol.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2023 10:57 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 10:57:00 -0400

Was he wrong in approach, maybe I wasn't there. You were 100% wrong in your actions and maybe instead of telling him what you did you could have made it a learning moment.

Response by SFC R. Lee Linebarger made Mar 31 at 2023 4:08 PM

SFC R. Lee Linebarger — Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:08:36 -0400

Yes and yes.

If that Corporal wants to push UCMJ for disrespect, hope you got your bills in check.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2023 2:09 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Apr 2023 02:09:31 -0400

This is really AITA....
ESH.
Him for being wrong and not knowing or admitting it.
You, for doing what we all actually want to do.
Like others said, take it higher.

But if you think I'd support UCMJ action for this, you're nuts.

Response by MSG Tony Hughes made Apr 20 at 2023 3:30 PM

MSG Tony Hughes — Thu, 20 Apr 2023 15:30:27 -0400

You obviously dont know about customs and courtesies, the authority of an NCO or how to approach a person to diffuse a situation. You should be before the man getting some ucmj

Response by Cpl George Matousek made May 21 at 2023 12:01 PM

Cpl George Matousek — Sun, 21 May 2023 12:01:07 -0400

I agree with the MSG below, you are wrong and should got written for disrespect to an NCO,Semper Fi

Response by SSG Mark Smith made May 27 at 2023 7:27 AM

SSG Mark Smith — Sat, 27 May 2023 07:27:40 -0400

Guess the first thing to say is, there is no team leader position in a mortar plt, its sqd ldr, fdc chief, section sgt, plt sgt, pl for Bn mortars.Just so you know how a mortar plt works. Gun 2 is base gun, and typically has the senior E-5 sqd ldr, you as 2 gun gunner does not really matter. Nco is an Nco you should have found a more tactful way to approach the situation. Now on a personal note I can say I have had the urge to say the exact same thing on more then one occasion.

Response by PO3 James Bobiney made May 27 at 2023 10:19 PM

PO3 James Bobiney — Sat, 27 May 2023 22:19:05 -0400

Whatever you say, PFC Gomez. lol

Response by SSG Tom Simmons made May 28 at 2023 1:20 AM

SSG Tom Simmons — Sun, 28 May 2023 01:20:22 -0400

Yeah he can for what you said. And yes you were wrong. Next time take it to the squad leader.

Response by SSG Michael Schneider made May 28 at 2023 2:35 PM

SSG Michael Schneider — Sun, 28 May 2023 14:35:39 -0400

Don't know how much things have changed since I left the Army but, in my day Corporals were NCO's and if you had said that to me it would have been Article 15 time for your insubordinate ass!

Response by PFC Lisa McDonald made May 28 at 2023 9:50 PM

PFC Lisa McDonald — Sun, 28 May 2023 21:50:56 -0400

I am grateful I served before the return of the corporal! I really think the Army needs to make a choice Specialist or NCO's one or the other! If you are going to have specialist through E-6 then get rid of Corporals through staff Sgts or vice versa.
Otherwise since a corporal is considered a JR NCO you needed to follow their command. I am sure within someway of military courtesy you could have followed the command in protest telling him basically to F off and not ran afoul of UCMJ. Something like Specialist are masters of the knowledge and corporals are masters of the front kneeling hummer! While else would they be corporals and not MOS related specialist?

Response by SSG Robert Velasco made May 29 at 2023 1:01 PM

SSG Robert Velasco — Mon, 29 May 2023 13:01:02 -0400

This is one of the reasons I left after 10 years in. EM's with bad attitudes! If you can't obey orders,we're in a quandary that is not sop. Wait until you get promoted and you'll find it worse than your corporal!

Response by PO1 Lc Carter made May 30 at 2023 4:42 AM

PO1 Lc Carter — Tue, 30 May 2023 04:42:47 -0400

Yes I wrote a guy and he ended up with BCD

Response by PO1 Mike Pulju made May 30 at 2023 10:56 AM

PO1 Mike Pulju — Tue, 30 May 2023 10:56:06 -0400

I'd have had you out on the flight line cleaning padeyes with a plastic spoon. Possibly in a thunderstorm.

Response by MIDN CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2023 5:06 AM

MIDN CAPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 May 2023 05:06:57 -0400

Unless you brought a bag of Dicks like some kinda Samason to Delilah'z God Damnable Dad, Privat....Wharton College!?! You don't know how to help an donkeyhole look Nice and Shiney....thus platform is not for checking who wants to muti y the Damn MilitRy! Now 100 pushups...300 situps in a series of 50...you get the point.....God Damn chow is gonna taste good to your ass if we keep you in past breakfast....Joker Division, I found your Paul's Company commander in ten yearsz

Response by SGT David Wyatt made May 31 at 2023 8:45 PM

SGT David Wyatt — Wed, 31 May 2023 20:45:27 -0400

Oh dude you are a screen door on a submarine, a soup sandwich 6 down 7 across and 8 the fuck up. Learn a little tact, it’ll help you in every facet of life.

Response by SSG Adam Taylor made Jun 2 at 2023 8:27 AM

SSG Adam Taylor — Fri, 02 Jun 2023 08:27:27 -0400

Take the rank and position out of it. You told another person to "eat a bag of dicks".
You're wrong. I don't care if you're a 1SG and you say that to a PV1...you're wrong for doing so. If you've been a mortar man that long, you should be able to explain his error in thinking using your knowledge. Period.
Now, he's an NCO and you're not. I don't care how long you've held an MOS. If he's a team leader, if he's an NCO and you disrespect him, he likely did you a favor by "smoking" you. He could have put that on paper and put you on the path to exiting the Army. Count your blessings.

Response by SSG Rick Miller made Jun 2 at 2023 9:31 AM

SSG Rick Miller — Fri, 02 Jun 2023 09:31:50 -0400

So, in the National Guard, you don't need to keep military bearing? You don't need to show respect for an NCO? First, he was wrong by trying to smoke you. Second, you were even more wrong by showing such blatant contempt and disrespect to an NCO, albeit a junior one. You should have pulled him aside, given him the benefit of your experience, and taught him the right way to do large deflections. Put your ego in check. Act like a seasoned troop, using a situation as a teachable moment. And on a more personal note, trust me, after a comment like that, you and I would have been meeting up after drill, and you would be walking funny for the rest of your life.

Response by SSG Ted Strachan made Jun 2 at 2023 11:46 AM

SSG Ted Strachan — Fri, 02 Jun 2023 11:46:41 -0400

Is this really today's Army? The fact that you should even ask that said just how far we've sunk. If I were that CPLs platoon sergeant I did have had you in front of the commander so fast your CAC card would have had to run to catch up. You are a SPECIALIST. Who do you think you are to speak to an NCO like that?
We need to drop all watered down conduct standards that have been adopted over the last 40 years, stop worrying about the little troopies' feelings and get back to the business of running an ARMY. My God in heaven!!

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Jun 3 at 2023 12:22 AM

SSG Eric Blue — Sat, 03 Jun 2023 00:22:51 -0400

Consider yourself fortunate that you don't live in the era of wall-to-wall counseling. You would have gotten thrown into a brick wall. But yes, you disrespected an NCO. So you were definitely wrong for what you said and he can administer corrective training. But you were also wrong for not helping your new leader become more efficient and effective at their job.

Response by SP5 Joseph S. made Jun 8 at 2023 7:27 PM

SP5 Joseph S. — Thu, 08 Jun 2023 19:27:37 -0400

You were wrong, period! A junior NCO told you to do something you do it. You don't ask questions you do it! He will get his in the end if he is wrong. It is not up to you to decide if he is right or wrong. That is for someone that has more rank than you to decide. You were wrong, period!

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Jun 26 at 2023 1:11 AM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:11:09 -0400

I did have a similar issue, I was an ET-3 (E-4) at the time and the ET-1 (E-6) took umbrage when I told him he was wrong. However unlike you instead of making a crude suggestion, I showed him in the documentation where he was wrong. Actually I told him the Document Title, Section, and Page. The rest of my time there, anytime someone had a question about SOP, he would send them to me.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Jun 27 at 2023 3:24 PM

Cpl Dennis F. — Tue, 27 Jun 2023 15:24:00 -0400

In my time, I'd have laughed at you or had you burning shit for six months, depending on my mood that day.

Response by CPL Allan Suddeth made Jun 28 at 2023 1:38 PM

CPL Allan Suddeth — Wed, 28 Jun 2023 13:38:21 -0400

You deserve wall to wall counseling. That is exactly what you would have gotten back in my Army days.

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Jun 29 at 2023 1:36 PM

CPL Sheila Lewis — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 13:36:05 -0400

One lesson about life is don't burn your bridges because You might have to cross them again...

Response by MSG Donna Dewar made Jun 29 at 2023 1:43 PM

MSG Donna Dewar — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 13:43:43 -0400

Very disappointed in you. We can be right without being stupid. Your behavior in this situation is horrid.

Response by Cpl Ronald Peters made Jun 29 at 2023 2:43 PM

Cpl Ronald Peters — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 14:43:37 -0400

If anyone in that situation is a bag of dicks it was you and if he cares to you may find yours handed to you.

Response by SFC Aubrey Campbell made Jun 29 at 2023 9:55 PM

SFC Aubrey Campbell — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 21:55:44 -0400

Please respect the rank. During my 20 years, I had a hard time dealing with disrespect to an NCO. I was an NCO just two years in, so had 18 yrs experience dealing this issue. You were doing fine until you told him to “eat a bag of dicks!” Ump ump umpppp!! Mannheim, CCF, or Leavenworth bound!!!

Response by SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt made Jun 30 at 2023 9:36 AM

SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt — Fri, 30 Jun 2023 09:36:56 -0400

has WOKE'ness taken over in the military as well?

Response by SSgt Thomas A Tullis Jr made Jun 30 at 2023 6:40 PM

SSgt Thomas A Tullis Jr — Fri, 30 Jun 2023 18:40:26 -0400

I would have written Article 15 on you.

Response by CPL Jake P made Jul 1 at 2023 2:18 PM

CPL Jake P — Sat, 01 Jul 2023 14:18:49 -0400

You respect the rank, not the person. If you can't learn how to be led, you'll never know how to lead. You should submit your own article 15. It's not his fault he promoted faster than you and maybe that tells you something. You're completely in the wrong and you not knowing it is what's wrong with the Army now. CPL have it rough too. They have all the responsibilities of an E5, but get questioned by soldiers like you that don't even understand rank

Response by SSG Freddie B Graddy made Jul 1 at 2023 3:56 PM

SSG Freddie B Graddy — Sat, 01 Jul 2023 15:56:31 -0400

You where wrong

Response by SSG John Naquin made Jul 2 at 2023 11:42 AM

SSG John Naquin — Sun, 02 Jul 2023 11:42:24 -0400

Power of the pen is mightier then the sword, by disrespecting a junior NCO, yes you jacked up. As other's said keep you mouth shut do the job. Tact will get you a long way into getting promotions and such.

Response by LTC Martin Glynn made Jul 2 at 2023 7:36 PM

LTC Martin Glynn — Sun, 02 Jul 2023 19:36:43 -0400

When I was a company commander, all of our Corporals were personally selected by my First Sergeant. He told me who he wanted laterally promoted to Corporal, and I signed the paperwork and forwarded it to the Battalion Commander for approval. After that, Top assigned NCO duties to the new Corporals just as he assigned NCO duties to Sergeants, and if any junior Soldier, Specialist or below, had shown a Corporal any disrespect, well, I wouldn’t have wanted to be that guy. That would have gone over like the proverbial turd in a punch bowl with Top and our Platoon Sergeants.

Response by SFC Russell Canter made Jul 2 at 2023 11:28 PM

SFC Russell Canter — Sun, 02 Jul 2023 23:28:15 -0400

I once had a break in RA service and I played NG and Navy Reserves, when I cam back into the army I lost my E-6 stripes and was a buck sergeant again. I took artillery (13B) since at least they road trucks (I was told nothing in aviation was available, years later as a recruiter I found out differently), was was dropped into one station training for the last four weeks of basic training, then the gunbunny mos course. The company commander was on leave, the 1SG was on medical recovery and the senior drill sergeant wanted me in the barracks, no stripes (or mustache, lol); the XO saved me and got me into the battalion BEQ. He had orders for flight school and I was wearing crew chief wings and I was a civilian pilot. So, I sleep in the battalion staff enlisted barracks and showed up for PT, and then did the rest of the daily training.
All of this leads up to the story, we picked up reserve drill sergeants to help and they didn’t know about me. I had a drill “corporal” smoke me for being the last man to PT formation, I was still there before the required time. I took it. I didn’t want any of the troops to think the drill’s weren’t doing what they thought were right. Now at lunch time, I seen the drill Corporal jumping on the slow guys and approached him. He went to parade rest when he saw my stripes, then he finally recognized me as the soldier he smoked that morning. We went outside to “chat” in a one way conversation, he finally realized I wasn’t out to get him, but for him the realize I wasn’t going to put up with excess crap. A couple weekends later we had beers at the NCO club.

Also, the regular drill sergeants had me marching the company to the various locations, and I got to run the M-16 Weaponeer for a week while all the platoons were ran through. I was only out of the regular Army for 8 months and I had showed up with my old PT and ranges scores. The idiots at in processing looked at my records, without talking to me or asking for clarification, seen that I was coming out of the navy reserves and that I had done basic at Lackland AFB. Didn’t even notice that I did three years of regular Army in between. So, they scheduled me for the last half of basic training…

The regular drill sergeants and I got along pretty good, just not with the reserve doing their two week training,.. More stories to follow. 2 AFSC’s, 1 Navy rating, and 7 mos’s… 27 years total.
Sfc Russ Canter
1844W3AE,
USA, Ret

Response by SPC Thomas Bourland made Jul 3 at 2023 11:27 AM

SPC Thomas Bourland — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 11:27:28 -0400

There is a thing called tact, which often is forgotten when a soldiers ego shows its face.

Response by SFC Mike Medynski made Jul 4 at 2023 7:25 AM

SFC Mike Medynski — Tue, 04 Jul 2023 07:25:33 -0400

It doesn't matter if he was a Cpl or a CSM, you are going to deal with a lot of people who don't know what they are doing, You have to respect the rank, not the person, I suggest you work on your respectfully belittling vocabulary.

Response by CWO4 Tim Hecht made Jul 6 at 2023 2:35 AM

CWO4 Tim Hecht — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 02:35:34 -0400

I apologize for the the length of this post; but I think it’s worth the read. Just remember we’ve all been there, done that, and mostly learned valuable lessons. I would speculate that many NCOs in Leadership Positions would respond to your lack of professionalism the same way but in a stroke of bad luck you’d get someone to let you skate. There is a right way and a definite wrong way to “discuss” a difference of opinions. One, happened to me after the aircraft carrier I served in.returned to our home port of Alameda, CA. I had spent the better part of that 10 month, 3 week deployment working as an OJT Aviation Ordnance Man doing everything related to the storage, assembly, testing, transporting the weapons from the magazines to the shop, to the flight deck, loading them on planes. Hard honest work…. Our Shop Chief Petty Officer and our LCDR Division Officer sure we were trained and had the right tools and people to Do the job safely an accident free. It’s a really a humbling feeling when your Battle Station was in a missile magazine 6 decks below the main deck and above and beside you were other magazine full of live ordnance.Three decks above you was the armored deck and you were there until the situation resolved and the hatches were opened. It would have been quick; probably would know everything all blew up at once.

Anyway I was sent to 5 day “Air Launched Intermediate Weapons class. I was an E3 and the main instructor was an E6. Tact and diplomacy aren’t family traits but the instructor did not know the reality of his lecture. He was erroneously praising the quality and high performance metrics of a particular guided missile. When I politely told him that the missile and info he was touting was wrong. Before I could state the facts for him he said that I didn’t know what I was talking about because I was a lowly E3! Surprise, surprise the School’s Senior Enlisted man, an E9, walked by at the moment I was told to pound salt. Entering the classroom the Master Chief said I’d like to hear Airman Hecht’s comments. Then he told the instructor that I and about half the class had just returned from cruising up and down the Coast of Vietnam where our pilots were dropping bombs and launching missile sat the enemy. On paper the missile the instructor like however the electronics and guidance systems were fragile. After 5 Carrier landing’s the missiles had to be tested and gone over with a fine toothed comb. The Sidewinder heat seeking missile was much more reliable accounting for the last two NVA MiGs of the war to be shot down! Ironically my carrier, using Sidewinders, shot dow the first 2 NVA MiGs of the war. So basically the Master Chief thanked me for my “presentation” which was consistent with the After Action Reports (Fleet Wide).

I went through Navy Boot Camp at San Diego during the Summer of 1970. I retired as a Coast Guard CWO4 in June of 2001. A lot of changes in those 31 years.

What you say “smoked you” I suspect you did intense PT. We carried ‘03 Springfields in Boot Camp; heavy rifles. Try getting in a kneeling shooting position with said rifle, kneeling on a concrete deck. We also had this nasty night time drill called a “Marching Party.” You ran from your barracks holding the rifle over your head to the Parade Ground and practiced the devious 16 Count Manual of Arms - God forbid you dropped your rifle! Screw it up running laps on a parade ground about 300 yards on a side and 100 yards wide - usually you only need one Marching Party.

Onboard my first ship, a Sub Tender in San Diego, I was assigned to Deck Force, cleaning and painting the exterior of the ship. .”Tiny” was a Torpedoman Petty Officer 3rd Class (E-4j who ruled the Bosun and Paint Lockers. If you were sent to the Bosun Locker one of two things happened: if you were sent to get a can of Red Lead Primer (5 gallons) Tiny would put it in the Paint Mixer then loosen the lid but put it back on for you. Then he’d invite you to have a cup of Joe and a smoke. I was 6’2” and weighed 178# (18 years old). Tiny probably was 6’6” and 275#. On the other hand if your Leading Seaman (E3) or a Petty Officer “run down to the Bosun Locker to see (or talk to him)”.Tiny would ask you what you wanted (so I was told , but not experienced) the next thing you would see or feel was a sore jaw, abrasions from the non-skid steel deck, some mop bucket water tossed on your face, and Tiny, gently helping you up to sit on a chair until you got you vision and balance back. He would then tell the person that he had suddenly turned pale, pasty white, that his eyes rolled up so only the whites of his eyes were showing, and then passed out. Tiny said he tried to catch them but he’d hit the deck fast and hard! After that Tiny would sit there, BS with them, and give them a cold soda pop. It was explained that it wasn’t personal, but professional, and feel free to stop down to hear some of Tiny’s Sea Stories! But to try to never be sent to talk to Tiny! That was what you called getting “SMOKED” on a Navy Sub Tender during the Summer of 1971.

SPC Gomez - I can assure you that the Corporal was doing one of 3 things; he was Leading, not following, but was definitely not getting the hell out of the way!

Man up; take responsibility for your actions - even apologize for being out of line.

You have a Golden Opportunity here - politely offer to the Corporal that you’re willing to help him learn; to bring him up to speed if he wants that.

Response by TSgt Tommy Amparano made Jul 6 at 2023 2:47 PM

TSgt Tommy Amparano — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 14:47:12 -0400

Ask yourself, were you being professional? I noticed you said, "disagreement" not had a difference of opinion. Doesn't matter what the job is or the profession. You handle yourself in a professional manner and there will be no issue. Also, I hope this disagreement did not happen in front of others. If you are putting on a show, then you made matters much worse. Don't undermine the person in charge just to show what you know. You end up becoming a toxic to everyone. If you have been there a while, then people are going to look up to you good or bad. If they see you being disrespectful and challenging the leader in front of everyone, what hope will they have to be part of the team or an effective leader. Same team.

Response by SGT Robert Miller made Aug 1 at 2023 5:07 PM

SGT Robert Miller — Tue, 01 Aug 2023 17:07:48 -0400

A corporal is considered an NCO and you blatantly disrespect an NCI because you got your feelings hurt. If I was that Corporal, I'd send it up the chain requesting some form of punishment. If you don't like discipline, maybe do the right thing in the first place l, or maybe find your way back to civilian life you snowflake.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2023 6:55 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Aug 2023 18:55:56 -0400

As Lori Morgan would sing... "What part of 'NCO' don't you understand?"

Response by SGT Richard H. made Aug 2 at 2023 4:29 PM

SGT Richard H. — Wed, 02 Aug 2023 16:29:54 -0400

Yes. He's an NCO. You aren't. Your input and experience obviously isn't irrelevant, but an unprofessional outburst like that just made it that way.

Response by PO1 Ronald Johnson made Aug 3 at 2023 7:35 AM

PO1 Ronald Johnson — Thu, 03 Aug 2023 07:35:27 -0400

I am Surprised the Corporal did not snatch you up by your bootstraps and have you standing in front of the old man. It could have been an E-1 giving you the order and it would not have mattered as long as he had positional authority over you. If it is a lawful order, which it was, you bite the bullet and follow it, after it has been followed, then you follow up by talking to him in private to explain you're reasoning for the argument. Make sure you back it up with factual data, not your own personal opinion.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2023 1:51 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Aug 2023 13:51:40 -0400

I don’t usually chime in, but first of all, a corporal is an NCO and has authority under UCMJ and you are to obey a lawful order from an NCO. Furthermore, even if he were a Specialist in a team leader position, he would still have authority to give orders. It’s position over rank. Either way, disrespect to an NCO is a major no-no and you as specialist, should know better.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2023 4:41 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Aug 2023 16:41:13 -0400

This isn’t a thing you should be asking on RP.

To be blunt you are both wrong. You know damn well what you did was punishable under the UCMJ, disrespect to a Noncommissioned Officer is serious. I wouldn’t be surprised if a 4856 occurs as well as further action. If you have a disagreement with an NCO bring it up privately, based on what you said I’m guessing it was possibly in front of troops.

Your corporals actions were incorrect as well. Under current policies corrective training shouldn’t be conducted through physical activity. Your squad leader is in need of ncopdr also. Even with that, probably being a new NCO, less experienced he should have handled your disrespect a bit differently.

Response by SFC Wade Adams made Aug 4 at 2023 8:42 AM

SFC Wade Adams — Fri, 04 Aug 2023 08:42:39 -0400

While I do agree with you, it is wrong what you did. You are, I’m assuming, a SPC 4 , while you are equal in pay grade , he’s wearing the hard stripes. In my opinion, either one of two things should happen, either pin everyone in combat arms MOSs Corporal or disband the Corporal rank all together. When someone is laterally promoted to Corporal, it’s like they are getting screwed, because you are a NCO but you’re also still an E-4 , you serve a dual role for the same amount of money as a SPC . Back when they had SPC 4-8, it would have served its purpose but now it should be done away with.

Response by SFC Wade Adams made Aug 4 at 2023 2:34 PM

SFC Wade Adams — Fri, 04 Aug 2023 14:34:26 -0400

Btw, many moons ago, I did the same thing. Although my reply was not as harsh ( and I mean that in a good way) as yours. In my situation, I told him, “ how are you going to tell me what to do coffee cup NCO?” I was wrong as well

Response by Sgt Daniel Kunkel made Aug 4 at 2023 4:36 PM

Sgt Daniel Kunkel — Fri, 04 Aug 2023 16:36:56 -0400

In my time, you tell me or any other NCO to eat a bag of dicks, stand by. Then I’d stand by for demotion and gladly take it. Worth it to teach some respect of rank. No matter how “long” you’ve been in. Respect the rank or get your nasty body out of my Marine Corps.

Sincerely,
OIF 1 and II Marine Vet NCO

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Aug 7 at 2023 3:13 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Mon, 07 Aug 2023 03:13:38 -0400

A Corporal is an NCO. And your comment is disrespecting an NCO.

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made Aug 27 at 2023 9:42 PM

LCpl Michael Cappello — Sun, 27 Aug 2023 21:42:39 -0400

Sometimes I think that the Army is here for entertainment purposes only. You have got to be kidding me. I would have had you in front of the MAN on Art. 15, NJP charges in a half a heartbeat. What the hell is the Army producing these days?

Response by PFC Francine Fontana made Sep 13 at 2023 2:56 PM

PFC Francine Fontana — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 14:56:45 -0400

I would Grass Drilled your ass until you couldn't see straight. Then, I would have sent you right over to Top for disiplinary action and extra duty!
Here's why, an angry undisciplined person, be it military or civilian will get you NOTH - ING in life but a continued chip on your shoulder.
Would you want to be spoken to like that? Nooo.
Who spoke to you like that, growing up? Go work that out for yourself and while you're at it go apologize.

Response by Cpl Steven Watkins made Sep 14 at 2023 9:30 PM

Cpl Steven Watkins — Thu, 14 Sep 2023 21:30:30 -0400

Either way Jarhead as a 73 year old Jarhead he is still your senior weather you like it or not. Personally I’d had your ass in the brig and demoted. Rank is rank and that’s life. Would you do a Captain like that? Don’t think so. Every marine earns his rank and each marine should respect that. You would ask no more if the shoe was on the other foot. Eat CROW and learn JARHEAD. Either way Marine OOHRAH. Man up.

Response by Cpl Steven Watkins made Sep 14 at 2023 9:31 PM

Cpl Steven Watkins — Thu, 14 Sep 2023 21:31:49 -0400

Oops your Army. Been a Marine you would have already known Rank is superior.

Response by SFC Howard Holmes made Sep 15 at 2023 3:01 AM

SFC Howard Holmes — Fri, 15 Sep 2023 03:01:59 -0400

You are to obey an order unless it is an unlawful order, but just by the fact that you told him to eat a bag of dicks tells me you probably had the SMOKIN' coming. You would've been more in the right if you didn't do what you did to earn the smokin' which you failed to mention, but you carry out the order, and if there's an issue with that, you report it through your chain of command. Some young corporals let the power get to their head and have to learn how not to abuse it. Many years ago, I was a young MP, been at Ft. Lewis for about 15 months, so I was pretty well set in knowing what I was doing. We had a SSG come over from the 15th Combat Engineers to OJT as an MP. His first night on patrol I was his partner. I went to drive and he said, I'm a SSG, I'm driving, and he said it with attitude. I figured I would drive to show him the patrol area, and allow him to focus on learning the radio codes, etc. Since he was one of the things in your bag, we got a call, it was a "Signal 80" which was an arms room alarm going off, and it was in the Division Area. It was at this time that I played stupid PFC just as he treated me and immediately lost all of my knowledge and made him figure it out. There are ways of getting around abusers of rank, and higher ranking who lack respect for those of a lesser rank. Needless to say, it wasn't long before he was removed from patrol status, and out of the platoon. You were wrong, wrong, wrong, and I agree that you should've been NJP'd.

Response by Sgt Eugene M. Stewart made Sep 16 at 2023 11:31 PM

Sgt Eugene M. Stewart — Sat, 16 Sep 2023 23:31:07 -0400

I feel that a man in a position over me whether it is permanent or temporary, deserves the right to be respected for the position they are in. Put yourself in their position and see if you would like it. For what you said should be disciplinary actions to anyone under his leadership. Like it or leave it! SGT Stewart

Response by LCpl Robert Michaud made Sep 17 at 2023 10:56 AM

LCpl Robert Michaud — Sun, 17 Sep 2023 10:56:06 -0400

He is the NCO. If you disagree with his order, unless life threatening, you do it then talk to him after and explain what was wrong with the order. You respect the rank even if you don't respect the person.

Response by Brad Miller made Sep 17 at 2023 1:22 PM

Brad Miller — Sun, 17 Sep 2023 13:22:36 -0400

(1) Am not, never have been, military.
(2) Have been, several times, in a managerial/supervisory position.
(3) Without discipline and a chain of command you have a mob, not an organization.
I would land on you like the Fist of God for that.

Response by SSG Michael Baney made Sep 17 at 2023 2:35 PM

SSG Michael Baney — Sun, 17 Sep 2023 14:35:10 -0400

This has to.be the silliest question I have ever seen in here. You should've been given an article 15, had money taken away, been on restriction and given extra duty. You went through Basic Training, so you know damn well what you said was wrong. Your experience is irrelevant. If you had said that disrespectful crap to me, I would've pushed for a reduction in rank with that Article 15. If this is an example of your attitude, you should not even reenlist, go to civilian employer and see how long you are employed.

Response by SGT Greg Gold made Sep 17 at 2023 6:11 PM

SGT Greg Gold — Sun, 17 Sep 2023 18:11:08 -0400

My retirement orders shield me from this ass hattery.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2023 4:43 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Sep 2023 04:43:50 -0400

..............What a dumb f***ing question. Does he outrank you? Yes. Is he in a senior position? Also Yes. Could you benefit from pulling your head our of your ass? Resounding "yes".

I'd like to give you a more refined and professional answer, but you don't seem to have the wherewithal to take pause and assess a dumb question with an obvious answer before putting it forward. Despite the circumstances of the disagreement and the marring of your ego because you feel your entitled to greater position of authority, you're still in the position you are, and he is in the position he's in. Learn to articulate differences better. Grow up.

Response by SPC(P) Brandon Jenkins made Sep 18 at 2023 6:33 AM

SPC(P) Brandon Jenkins — Mon, 18 Sep 2023 06:33:11 -0400

You’re lucky it was just corrective action. He could’ve recommended higher action. It’s ok to “discuss” alternatives with leadership, but it must be done with tact. And never disrespectful, especially around other jr enlisted.

Response by CWO4 Carter Owens made Sep 18 at 2023 8:16 AM

CWO4 Carter Owens — Mon, 18 Sep 2023 08:16:30 -0400

I have no clue. But I once held the paygrades of E-2 through E-7. No matter what branch of service you serve there is that fine line of being in a position of Leadership and being a Subordinate. And the consequences of failed Leadership outweigh eating a Bag of Dicks. Get "Smoked" (step-Son 11 Bang Bang) and chalk it up as a success.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Sep 18 at 2023 9:43 PM

SSG Brian G. — Mon, 18 Sep 2023 21:43:42 -0400

So let me get this right. A corporal, which IS and NCO... told you an e-4... to drop and you not only refused but you were insubordinate to him? You are lucky to even BE a spec 4 after dong that and in the way you did it, with the attitude. It's not up to you to decide if he is wrong. And certainly not in that manner. If he was wrong you pull him to the side respectfully and tell him what was wrong. He either corrects or he does not. You are ate up from the floor up and yes, you were wrong.

Response by SPC Mark Washburn made Sep 19 at 2023 7:30 AM

SPC Mark Washburn — Tue, 19 Sep 2023 07:30:18 -0400

Your very wrong the corporal was put in charge anyone put in charge no matter higher or same rank you have to obey and give total respect to rank and position.Now if you said excuse me so and so no disrespect but eat a bag a dicks at least you showed respect. I agree you should have been wrote up fined for what you said

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2023 1:09 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:09:45 -0400

You have to look at multiple factors here. 1 he's a BRAND NEW NCO, 2 he just reclassed, 3 he's like an LT he was taught this in school but in the real world its something different. As a lot of responses on this post are VERY one sided. You both were in the wrong. Before the discussion had gotten to a point where he could've flexed his rank on you (if you're an NCO you've probably done this more than enough times to count) you should have explained it using a FM, TM or unit/company SOP. But instead the both of you let it go too far. Yes it's wrong of NCO's to flex their rank and CPL's get shit on all the time. But it was also wrong of you to tell an NCO to "eat a bag of dicks" not only is that dosrespect to a Non-Commisioned Offcier but it could have also escalated to SHARP complaint and knowing the army in this day and age it wouldn't surprise me. Also your NCO has a very large ego. As someone who already has reclassed 12B-91F he should know that he is going to have to rely on lower enlisted and higher enlisted to teach him everything he needs to know about the unit,SOPs, TMs, FMs and way of life in the new MOS. It's like going from a light unit to a mechanized or an armored unit. As an NCO. you as the NCO are still required to know the vehicles, soldiers, tm, fm, sop but that is uncharted territory so he should have leaned on you, you being the SME vs challenging you and him not knowing much.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Oct 22 at 2023 2:17 AM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Sun, 22 Oct 2023 02:17:01 -0400

WHEN I WAS IN BASIC TRAINING BEFORE WE MEET OUR DRILL SERGEANTS, THE ENTIRE MEPPS AND INPROCESSING AT FORT SILL WAS NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF CRAZY ASS CORPORALS, THEN WHEN I GOT TO GERMANY MY FIRST SECTION/TEAM CHIEF WAS A CPL AS WELL- NOW HE IS A VERY HIGH CSM STILL (DIE HARD)

Response by Sgt Sheri Lynn made Oct 22 at 2023 7:53 AM

Sgt Sheri Lynn — Sun, 22 Oct 2023 07:53:42 -0400

MST alert
Do we have to post with phrases like that?

Response by SGT Jason Anderson made Oct 22 at 2023 6:33 PM

SGT Jason Anderson — Sun, 22 Oct 2023 18:33:11 -0400

Potentially, you could both be wrong.

You are wrong regardless of rank - if you say that to anyone in a leadership position to you. Also, a corporal is as much an NCO as any other.

Secondly, he would be wrong in every case except you being corrected for failing push-ups on your pt test.

A corrective action needs to relate to your "crime" so to speak. And - I know everyone seems to do it - push-ups for anything other than what I previously stated would "legally" be considered a punishment. Punishment is reserved for commissioned officers.

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Oct 22 at 2023 11:13 PM

PO2 Mike Vignapiano — Sun, 22 Oct 2023 23:13:54 -0400

Regardless of you having more experience, mouthing off to him was dead wrong. You should’ve tried, in a calm way, explain why his way was not correct. You’re lucky you weren’t charged for disrespecting a superior!

Response by PFC Angela Van Horn made Oct 23 at 2023 3:18 AM

PFC Angela Van Horn — Mon, 23 Oct 2023 03:18:57 -0400

And here I thought all y'all E4 Mafia cats were smarter than going online and publishing evidence of such activities as blatantly disrespecting an NCO...

Response by SGM Robert Winstead made Oct 25 at 2023 9:33 PM

SGM Robert Winstead — Wed, 25 Oct 2023 21:33:02 -0400

Soooo wrong! He should have taken action against you for your disrespect. If you know more than him why aren't you a Corporal?

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Oct 25 at 2023 9:55 PM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Wed, 25 Oct 2023 21:55:33 -0400

IF YOU TOLD ME TO EAT A BAG OF DICKS AND I WAS A PRIVATE- SINCE I'M OLD SCHOOL, YOU WOULD BE PICKING YOUR TEETH UP OFF THE GROUND.
I'M IN IN THE USMC BUT YOU DO THAT IN THE CORP- THAT'S YOUR ASS TROOP.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2023 2:39 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Oct 2023 02:39:09 -0400

It all depends on the reputation, who knows who and who knows what. Now in the infantry world, this is a no no. In other more technical fields depends. If you are the senior specialist in a field that is super hard to promote in, and you just got in a recently reclassed NCO, or that NCO is a known idiot, you might get away with it. I have, but this guy nearly killed people due to his idiocy. He tried to pull rank, I mouthed off, called out safety, SOPs, and basic practices so we don't kill people in training environments due to monumental stupidity. But I gambled on reputation vs reputation, but I joined as an older person, and grew up and served in an environment where sometimes expertise, experience and scope of practice out matches rank.

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made Oct 26 at 2023 9:39 PM

PO1 Don Uhrig — Thu, 26 Oct 2023 21:39:17 -0400

Yes he or she can. And in the interest of diversity, you may want to, in the future, mix up your unprofessional and disrespectful remarks by saying, "Eat a bag of cunt$", or "eat a bag of they/them/theirs". In the end, you have been disrespectful of the authority, regardless of the rank. Shame on you.

Response by SGM Art Hudson made Oct 27 at 2023 9:49 AM

SGM Art Hudson — Fri, 27 Oct 2023 09:49:04 -0400

Disrespect to a NonCommissioned Officer, Insubordination, new Army mind set about leadership. Why is this even a question. Wrong is Wrong put yourself in his shoes. This is totally unacceptable, hopefully the Squad will get wind of this and give you some real corrective actions.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2023 8:21 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Oct 2023 08:21:30 -0400

I have to agree with everyone. You could've handled it more professionally. I hope this was a wake-up call or a lesson for you. If you were in 20 years ago, you would've gotten more than corrective training. You have a squad leader and a platoon sergeant for a reason. You do have the right to speak to them about any issues that are going on within the platoon. I know every new generation of service members is different, but you can't disrespect your superior. Trust me, if you had done that in the civilian world, you would've been fired in a heartbeat.

Response by SGT John Schmelzkopf made Oct 29 at 2023 11:30 PM

SGT John Schmelzkopf — Sun, 29 Oct 2023 23:30:09 -0400

Back in my day you could still go behind the wood shed in a case like that. After Nam had a Sp5 Motor Pool liked to yell at the Troops, did it to one of my guys. When I found out I told him if he had a problem with one of my guys, see me. Well he did it again and learned I was not fooling, his name happened to be Chuck Norris, not thee Chuck Norris. It was early 70's, the guys would always tell any new guys, watch out for the Sarge, he whooped Chuck Norris's butt. It was fun cause I was only about 155 lbs back then, the newbee's would be real good, we all chuckled when they finally met Sp5 Chuck Norris at the Motor Pool

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2023 3:48 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 15:48:17 -0500

I was a CPL for what seemed to be an eternity. BLUF, in my opinion it's probably the hardest rank in the Army to navigate. A SPC doesn't want to listen because they are the same pay grade (NOT RANK), and seniors only treat you like an NCO when they have a detail they don't want to handle themselves. That said, if you have been doing the job long enough to know that the CPL was wrong you should have pulled him to the side and had that conversation. The CPL was most likely embarrassed because you called him out in front of others. Think on this, if I as a MSG or as a 1SG, call out my CSM and he barks at me, then I say CSM go eat a bag of ----! How do you think that will turn out? So when I disagree with the CSM, I ask to speak with him and we have a conversation. No one gets chewed up or embarrassed and we figure out a solution. It's all about approach and delivery.

Response by PVT Clivere Johnson made Nov 22 at 2023 8:24 PM

PVT Clivere Johnson — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 20:24:43 -0500

Good for You

Response by SSG William Hull made Nov 22 at 2023 9:12 PM

SSG William Hull — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 21:12:35 -0500

Plain and simple, He was in a leadership position, in your chain of command, so the answer is YES!
He would be within his right to refer you for UCMJ action.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2023 7:19 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 07:19:19 -0500

Under the Army's SHARP program, you exposed yourself to additional problems by your particular verbal response.

This is, of course, over and above, the problems you could have faced under UCMJ.

Response by CPO Mike Malone made Nov 23 at 2023 1:51 PM

CPO Mike Malone — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 13:51:18 -0500

You shouldn’t be in the military if you have to ask that question.

Response by SGT Walt Pozgay made Nov 23 at 2023 3:22 PM

SGT Walt Pozgay — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 15:22:56 -0500

Hell yes, you were wrong! “Managing up” is an important skill. At no point is it ever acceptable to tell someone to “eat a bag of dicks,” regardless of his position relative yours. Would it have been ok for him to say it to you? NO! There are 20 different ways you could have handled that situation, but the one you chose was dead wrong!

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Nov 24 at 2023 6:56 AM

SPC Matt Ovaska — Fri, 24 Nov 2023 06:56:18 -0500

Unbelievable!

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Nov 24 at 2023 8:07 AM

SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee — Fri, 24 Nov 2023 08:07:21 -0500

If that corporal was directly your immediate supervisor and you did something wrong that he clearly warned you first. However, whether he is right or wrong to literally tell me what you said, you have just given him a real reason to fault you for real. Military discipline means having the ability to force oneself to do or not to do something required by your honor, loyalty, duty, and responsibility. Without that we would never win as many battle as we have had. It's not just following order, but to do the what the sworn oath one has pledged.

On the other hand, that corporal should not have done that in the first place. He should have warned you first couple of times, while you should have stopped and obeyed that warning. This was call respect. You respected his rank/title/position, and in return, he respected you as an equal warrior.

If I was your CO., I would relief him of his duty while I am giving you summarized Article 15, 7/7 no pay cut. And if you refused, I would refer this case to BN Cdr.

You lucky, I work for the living. ;)

Response by Cpl George Matousek made Nov 24 at 2023 11:45 AM

Cpl George Matousek — Fri, 24 Nov 2023 11:45:08 -0500

Yes , you were very wrong, he outranks you and you must follow is orders. Semper Fi

Response by SGT Kenneth Rand made Nov 24 at 2023 7:38 PM

SGT Kenneth Rand — Fri, 24 Nov 2023 19:38:59 -0500

A corporal is an NCO, and to disrespect an NCO is to disrespect the uniform! I see you only as a disgrace that doesn't know what the military is. While you may have years of experience obviously he has more experience as a leader. I have seen plenty of horrid leaders but I've also seen many shit bag specialists that claim they can do their job better. If this were true you'd have the promotion points but you can't manage 350 automatic promotion points. My secondary mos was 790 for E-5 I knew everyone's job even yours that doesn't give me the right to disrespect the person above me because I think I'm intelligent. It only makes me a better tool for him to use in his arsenal.

Response by SGT Robert Urbaniak made Nov 25 at 2023 9:42 AM

SGT Robert Urbaniak — Sat, 25 Nov 2023 09:42:33 -0500

You always have to respect rank, and this is why we have this in the military.The only way I'd refuse an order if I was told to do something that I knew for sure it would kill me, BUT I might volunteer for a mission like that.

Response by Cpl Rosemarie SantaAnna made Nov 26 at 2023 10:32 AM

Cpl Rosemarie SantaAnna — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 10:32:50 -0500

I do agree

Response by Robert Jewkes made Nov 26 at 2023 12:50 PM

Robert Jewkes — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 12:50:56 -0500

Leadership and NCO. He's wrong for flexing muscle he don't have, your wrong for Disrespecting answer. In the military, if they put a PFC in leadership position as unlikely as that may be, he is the top man in regards to the project he is overseeing. If you think he/she has dropped you wrongfully talk to Squad leader.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2023 5:17 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 17:17:08 -0500

Oh, Lordy, I was pretty easygoing, but even I wouldn't have tolerated that! I don't care how much you might like or dislike a person; if you are military and they outrank you even if it is only one pay grade, and especially if they are in a leadership position, you show respect and telling them that is not respectful. I was TDY and worked in a shop when I was an E-7, but the NCOIC was an E-5, but he was still in charge. He got respect.

Response by SGT Matt Squires made Nov 27 at 2023 2:17 AM

SGT Matt Squires — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 02:17:01 -0500

yes, you were absolutely in the wrong. As an 11C NCO, if I had caught you telling a CPL to eat a bag of dicks, you would have been smoked until I got tired or the PSG told me to let you up. You do what the NCO told you to do and then pull him aside later and explain to him where he was wrong. It would have been the correct thing to do.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2023 12:20 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 12:20:57 -0500

Let's see ... Set the deflection on the sights, center up the bipod, pull up the bipod and horse the tube around to the aiming stakes, and continue from there. (See, you aren't the only 11C in the world, and I haven't done if for a few decades.)

But what I'm interested in commenting on is why he was selected for CPL and not you. Gun 2 is the base gun, so the section is centered on what gun 2 is shooting at. That SHOULD mean you are the top gunner in your platoon. So again, why does he make CPL?

Here's what you should take from this. Your attitude is the reason. The Army isn't about you. It's about a team. I know that sounds trite, but that doesn't make it any less the truth. (This is symptomatic of the Army of today and the snowflakes we get. "What's in it for me?", and, "Aren't I just the sharpest nail in the box?", aren't attitudes I want to see in the guy holding the foxhole next to me.) If I'd have been up your chain of command, I'd have recommended you for an AR-15 and bust to PFC. Maybe being a loader again would help you get in the team spirit.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2023 5:25 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Nov 2023 17:25:33 -0500

Was his order contrary to regulations and unsafe to you or anyone else? If so you have a right to RESPECTFULLY refuse it on grounds that it is unlawful. If not both of those things, then you were wrong for not obeying. You will always be wrong ordering unlawful punishments that fall under hazing, and as per regulations you are authorized to RESPECTFULLY refuse that as well, although it may not be the wisest course of action. Under no circumstance is it ever correct to tell a person in a higher rank or billet to eat a bag of dicks. You are still in the military and are still required to be tactful. As for contradicting an incorrect but lawful order, this too can be done tactfully. A few things to remember:
1. Make sure it is a one on one conversation: nobody responds well to public criticism and if possible, will almost always immediately dig in and go on the defensive.
2. Be right: make sure that you actually are correct, there is nothing worse than making a big to-do and then finding out you were the idiot all along.
3. Phrase it neutrally: phrase it in such a way that it sounds like something he wants to learn rather than something he got wrong.
4. If the corrected leader still refuses and the mistake is not endangering anyone, let him fall on his sword so he can learn the learn the lesson. Don't gloat when things go wrong, because that breeds resentment and makes your life harder with very little benefit. The goal isn't to be the one who was correct, it is to help him learn the lesson.

While both of you could be brought up on charges under the UCMJ, If I was your Cpl, I would use EMI, either writing the regulations broken repeatedly or writing an essay on how to better handle the situation. I say this in case you are ever in this situation yourself, now you have lawful ways of handling it. Just remember that ALL punishment should be directed at correcting the problem with maximum efficiency.

Response by SP5 George Smith made Dec 16 at 2023 1:19 PM

SP5 George Smith — Sat, 16 Dec 2023 13:19:57 -0500

Two egos getting in the way of professionalism. So much for lack of verbal skills. But, an opportunity to learn…for both sides. Either side could have approached the subject at hand differently, but chose not to because Mr. Ego reared his ugly head. If you’re the expert, did you use this opportunity to teach? Even one that outranks you doesn’t know everything. The best characteristic of knowledge is that it can be shared. It makes for a better team when everyone is onboard and not divided. The guys down range will appreciate not having uninvited short rounds dropping in. Telling anyone to eat a bag of dicks because of a technical disagreement means what? Time to put on the big boy pants, corporal included, and settle this as a team.

Response by SPC David Young made Jan 4 at 2024 4:08 AM

SPC David Young — Thu, 04 Jan 2024 04:08:40 -0500

You were in the wrong. He would have been within his rights to write you up and put you in front of the company commander for an Article 15.

Response by SPC Danny Barnes made Jan 12 at 2024 6:27 PM

SPC Danny Barnes — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 18:27:05 -0500

We had a lot of AJ (acting jack) SGT's that were in charge of TDY common teams. The strips were on his sleeve, hence he was & should be respected as an NCO.

Response by MSG Michael Gay made Jan 15 at 2024 9:09 PM

MSG Michael Gay — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 21:09:03 -0500

You were insubordinate and thus very wrong. I do not know all of the circumstances involved but minor “corrective action” was a real break for you. In Vietnam while in contact I, as their Squad, leader told 2 soldiers to move from a very safe position into a field of direct fire from the enemy. Both men told me “hell no” but when we started to “Fire and maneuver” they did as they were told. Both of them later apologized and the issue was over. Both got much better after their 1st week of action. One man EARNED a Bronze Star for Valor.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2024 4:25 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 16:25:37 -0500

You were wrong for disrespecting an NCO. Let him try it his way as he may have ordered you, assuming it's not a safety risk/concern. You say you have more experience. If that's true, then show him in the manual/regulation where you are right. Pull him to the side and show him. I'm positive you would appreciate the same courtesy from any other Soldier.

Response by PO3 Ted G made Jan 21 at 2024 11:39 AM

PO3 Ted G — Sun, 21 Jan 2024 11:39:12 -0500

I had several jobs where I was the senior person but not the highest ranking person. As in I was an E-3 with an E-6 working for me at one point. Sometimes you have to be tactful and explain why their idea will not work, also privately explaining to them that at some point they will be all trained up and still no one will respect them because they toss rank around more than knowledge can be helpful.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Jan 21 at 2024 3:14 PM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Sun, 21 Jan 2024 15:14:30 -0500

Yeah you were wrong.

Response by CWO3 Robert Fong made Jan 22 at 2024 11:35 AM

CWO3 Robert Fong — Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:35:49 -0500

Specialist,
If you had acted that way to one of my Petty Officers, you would have found your way to the Mast and The Green Felt Table (Army parlance: Top would have sent you to the "Old Man"). It would be at that point when UCMJ happens. The military does not do things by committee or "union" seniority on a machine. Your best course of action would have been to respectfully offer your advice and then stop. If the Corporal is a good leader, he would thank you; however, if he persists on doing it his way, as long as lives are not in danger, then do as he says. You should always demonstrate better leadership and get ahead.

Response by SPC Michael Hagen made Jan 22 at 2024 12:07 PM

SPC Michael Hagen — Mon, 22 Jan 2024 12:07:05 -0500

If you would have said "with all due respect" Eat a bag of dicks thats not UCMJ.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2024 8:56 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Jan 2024 20:56:33 -0500

Well I am guessing he wanted you do do it the way he was tought. And you being around awhile knew a short cut. And what you schould have done. Was do it his way and later go talk to him the same way you would want to be talked to. But you butted heads so you were wrong all the way. Maybe one day you will be promoted to squad leader. Maybe there is a reason you weren’t.

Response by SSG Robert Cole made Jan 23 at 2024 3:37 AM

SSG Robert Cole — Tue, 23 Jan 2024 03:37:06 -0500

Having been a corporal myself your damn skippy he can smoke your ass. He's an NCO. Personally, I'd broke out the old paper and pen and put it in your record. And then wait for the 2nd time and have courts martial for patterns of misconduct. See how that works out for you in life.

Response by SCPO Lonny Randolph made Jan 23 at 2024 2:23 PM

SCPO Lonny Randolph — Tue, 23 Jan 2024 14:23:11 -0500

You should be enormously happy you were not in my Navy and not in my division; you would have been climbing ladders till you died if you tried that crap on any of my NCO's and the second helping would have come from me personally. Having said all that, you were both wrong. Yoo should have conferred with the young corporal in private while obeying in public, this would have voided the situation to begin with. I have no doubt however that you were disrespectful in tone and manner when you tried to point out his error and that couldn't have been helpful to an individual who was new to his leadership position and didn't need some disrespectful back talk. You pretty much gave him no option but to try to correct your attitude immediately. He was wrong in that he made an issue of punishing you in public. The basic rule of leadership is praise in public, punish and criticize in private.

Response by 1SG Brett Austin made Jan 25 at 2024 5:21 PM

1SG Brett Austin — Thu, 25 Jan 2024 17:21:46 -0500

As many have said…you were wrong in your response. Could he have done better….yes! BUT, he’s a hard stripe and you’re not…he out ranks you period. You’re insubordination warrants an Article 15.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2024 1:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Jan 2024 13:23:54 -0500

I will say this as a 11C and as a NCO. you were both wrong.. he is a NCO so you should not have told him to eat a bag of dicks.. not the part where he is wrong is a huge no no.. his miscalculation on the mortar can get someone killed.. "In order to lead you have to be able to listen".

Response by 1SG John Millan made Jan 27 at 2024 1:38 PM

1SG John Millan — Sat, 27 Jan 2024 13:38:02 -0500

You shoulda lost a stripe.

Response by SFC Joshua Starkey made Feb 19 at 2024 5:18 PM

SFC Joshua Starkey — Mon, 19 Feb 2024 17:18:33 -0500

I don't usually comment on this crap, but seriously, this is a no Brainer. I us3d to say the same dumbass shit you did, but I didn't need to ask the internet if I was out of line..... Here's a tip to help, if your comment doesn't help eleliviate the situatiation, then you were wrong...

Response by CW2 Robert Troop made Feb 21 at 2024 4:14 PM

CW2 Robert Troop — Wed, 21 Feb 2024 16:14:38 -0500

I agree with MSG -(Verify to see), that being Disrespectful to any acting NCO or even a temp. NCO in charge, by telling him to eat a bag of dicks is totally wrong...If he told you to drop and do 20 do so , but do so in protest, but do it....Then go up thru your chain of command and report the NCO actions, and get witnesses, names, and ranks where the incident took place and dates or the incident who witness what was said by the NCO. Put your thoughts down on paper of the incident , and make copies of your report, in the event its gets loss or shuffled somewhere that it was not to be. If the NCO actions were not warranted, in a timely manner then pursue the matter up through the ranks.

Response by SPC Lesa Smith made Feb 21 at 2024 6:46 PM

SPC Lesa Smith — Wed, 21 Feb 2024 18:46:44 -0500

You are a bully. You would get a victim hurt and if they hurt you more they would seem to be the bully. You could ruin someone’s life. Stop being a bully! An innocent person who could turn the table on you but you will hurt them career wise, financially and rank wise. Leave people alone do your orders that are given to you and stop ruining peoples lives.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Feb 22 at 2024 2:16 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Thu, 22 Feb 2024 14:16:12 -0500

When I was an NCO I would have smoked you worse than that...and if you told me what you told him, not only would I smoke you but you would get disciplinary paperwork and possibly an Art 15 under Art 91 Whether or not you have more experience is not the question...the question is who is in charge...by disrespecting him there and possibly in front of others you have unintentionally set a standard that he is now gonna have to correct. Bottom line: YOU WERE WRONG AND LUCKY YOU ARE STILL SERVING!

Response by SFC Eddy Weezar made Mar 3 at 2024 12:09 PM

SFC Eddy Weezar — Sun, 03 Mar 2024 12:09:41 -0500

I had a SPC tell me something like that when I was a CPL… I took him to the wood line! We both came out with much respect for each other!

Response by SSgt Mary Dungan made Mar 22 at 2024 3:36 PM

SSgt Mary Dungan — Fri, 22 Mar 2024 15:36:52 -0400

Your comment made me laugh. I don't know Army ranks; but if he outranked you, your response was probably ill-advised.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Apr 13 at 2024 10:18 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 10:18:13 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Hope you enjoy UCMJ actions. A CPL Is an NCO Your action is disrespecting and NCO And failing to Follow Lawful orders. In My early Years we had PFC's and SPC's With 13 years of service TIS does not give you the right to Disrespect and NCO Period.

Response by SFC William Linnell made Apr 21 at 2024 10:39 AM

SFC William Linnell — Sun, 21 Apr 2024 10:39:18 -0400

Man...talking about having your head up your ass. Regardless if your both the same grade, E-4, you are a rank, Spc. He is a Cpl, an NCO. As far as smoking you...dropping for a few push-ups is nothing to get excited about and definitely did not warrant disrespect from you.

Back in 94 at Carson, MG Schwartz took over. He mandated that NCOs couldn't drop Soldiers for push-ups unless they got down with them. My Soldier though wrong of the On the Spot corrective training. I instituted the Dying Cockroach. That was a quick study. They hated that more then push-ups. This weakening of discipline on continued thru the years, when he became the III Corps CDR. Then it showed it's ugly head in basic training. Consider yourself lucky for keeping your rank.

Response by CPO Jack De Merit made Apr 21 at 2024 3:23 PM

CPO Jack De Merit — Sun, 21 Apr 2024 15:23:51 -0400

You are as wrong as anyone can be. Anyone in charge is in charge. If you don't obey his or HER command, you are liable for a Court Marshall or the very least some other punishment.

Response by SSG George Holtje made Apr 21 at 2024 10:35 PM

SSG George Holtje — Sun, 21 Apr 2024 22:35:06 -0400

Yes. Get your head out of your $$@. A corporal is an NCO. They’re doing the same job as a Sergeant(in my friend’s case a Staff Sergeant) They probably don’t need a smartmouth like you disrespecting them because they get hell from higher while trying to get their jobs done.

I wasn’t too happy about being a corporal many years ago. The main issue was the specialists mouthing off, crying about stuff they knew had to be done and higher telling me I’m not allowed to make any decisions.

Now, go beg that corporal’s forgiveness

Response by SP5 Robert Kennedy made Apr 22 at 2024 12:04 PM

SP5 Robert Kennedy — Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:04:45 -0400

Hmmm, a bag of dicks? If, in fact, you have more knowledge and training than someone who out ranks you, and that NCO orders you to do something that would have dire consequences if performed as directed, YES, you do need to speak-up. But I doubt that a bag of dicks would have any part of that conversation. Just curious, do you have more time in service? If so, thinking before speaking might improve your upward rank mobility.
I do think the response is funny... but funny has a proper time and place.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2024 2:56 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Apr 2024 14:56:53 -0400

He's wrong in theory, but not by regulation and knows better. You must have really said something crazy in front of everyone. You as a subject matter expert should help correct him, and pull him aside to show him the right way. Undermining his authority is a no go in front of others, you may know more and have far more experience and expertise, but at the end of the day the CSM and Platoon Sergeant are going to side with him 100%, he's an NCO. Hopefully at time of this writing you are either a Sergeant or SSG or have gotten out of that insane woke organization.

Response by SGT Jade Pacheco made Apr 22 at 2024 10:37 PM

SGT Jade Pacheco — Mon, 22 Apr 2024 22:37:08 -0400

Lmao this is too funny

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Apr 22 at 2024 11:21 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Mon, 22 Apr 2024 23:21:32 -0400

you went about this wrong. Think about how you would react if you as an E-4 were put in that position, as the new supervisor and a subordinate slammed back at you. You should have discussed the situation, asked to speak to him on the side, and told him he was incorrect. No one like having a sharpshooter in a class.

Response by SFC Christopher Van Loon made Apr 23 at 2024 9:40 AM

SFC Christopher Van Loon — Tue, 23 Apr 2024 09:40:33 -0400

First of all; Yes, you were wrong. Second; He was not making a 'corrective action'. A corrective action needs to be directly related to the infraction. I was taught at Drill Sergeant School that PT in these types of situations needs to be an attention-getting device. If you were one of my troops you would be recommended for punishment under the UCMJ. He would be getting some direct leadership training.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Apr 24 at 2024 11:25 AM

1SG James Kelly — Wed, 24 Apr 2024 11:25:03 -0400

Yes, yes.

Response by SGT Robert Urbaniak made Apr 24 at 2024 1:55 PM

SGT Robert Urbaniak — Wed, 24 Apr 2024 13:55:11 -0400

Why would you say that to begin with? When I was in the Army I would never have thought to say something that stupid to a higher ranking NCO.