Can a field grade article 15 be given for lying to a senior NCO?

2019-07-12T21:16:11-04:00

So last week I was read for a company grade Article 15, I was reduced by one rank and given 14/14.

This week on Monday, we had a pre-deployment processing formation at 0700 which took place at the SRP site. After morning formation I stood by the Processing center even though I wasn’t scheduled until Wednesday. Before doing so, I had asked my 1SG if I could to which he replied “Okay”, since my first line (SPC, also battle buddy) was in the processing center. A few hours later he calls me asking where I am. I tell him I’m still at the SRP site in my car like I had asked to be and he starts asking me questions about if my battle buddy knew I was in there. I told him “idk” and “I thought he knew” even though I wasn’t 100% sure. He then calls my battle buddy and sure enough he wasn’t 100% sure that I was outside so he said he didn’t know where I was. I also told my 1sg that he had texted me telling me he should be out of there by lunch time. He took that information and had implemented that me and my battle buddy planned to meet up for lunch instead of reporting to work. (Which we didn’t)

Later that day he approaches me with sworn statement paperwork. I waive my rights and refuse to speak or answer any questions out of fear that he would word the questions so that I was wrong either way. That was all on Monday, well today he calls me into his office with a counseling that is recommending UCMJ action for “lying to a senior non commissioned officer” I elected to disagree and an currently writing a sworn statement in ADA format.

Knowing how my unit is I have every reason to believe the article will go through. Since I’m still flagged for my last article he is recommending UCMJ action and that I maintain my Adverse Action flag.

Does anyone have any tips or advice that I could use to my advantage in my ADA disagreement statement. IE anything that covers personnel accountability or anything? Also if anyone knows since I’m receiving a second article in such a relatively short period of time if it would be field grade, can you let me know?

Thank you very much and I plan to overcome this, there’s no mountain high enough. Also pm me if need be...

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jul 12 at 2019 9:44 PM

2019-07-12T21:44:37-04:00

Ok. First, your disagreement statement does not mean or account for squat. It is just you disagreeing to what is written above and taking the opportunity to give your side of things or at least your perspective. Be careful what you put in there. It CAN be used against you as it is an official statement.

Second, Article 15's do not work like that. They do not get 'bumped up' simply due to the shortness of time they fall. It depends on what your First Sergeant recommends to the commander and on what he or she decides is ultimately appropriate.

You need to go to JAG.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 12 at 2019 10:19 PM

2019-07-12T22:19:15-04:00

You can disagree, it is what the commander believes that matters. If you don’t have faith, you either request a Court Martial or deal with the consequences of an AR 15. None the less, your recourse is slim. Do the right thing, stand up and face your accusers. If you are wrong admit it, if you are not ask a Lawyer what is your best bet. Good luck

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 12 at 2019 11:56 PM

2019-07-12T23:56:23-04:00

If it is a violation of one of the punitive articles the UCMJ,the command can run NJP or a court-martial at any level it feels appropriate. The only exception is that you may refuse NJP or a summary, then the command decides whether they want to go to a special or general court-martial, take administrative action, or drop it.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 13 at 2019 9:21 AM

2019-07-13T09:21:12-04:00

Look it is up to the Commander as to whether he keeps it at the Compn=any level for pushes it higher. I would walk carefully, you can disagree about anything, respectfully, but once it is in a statement, that statement can be used by either side, because it is sworn to. You are already messed up once and are on everybody's radar as a troublemaker.

Response by SSG Ken Steinhoff made Jul 14 at 2019 9:07 PM

2019-07-14T21:07:18-04:00

Way back when.... I was up for and Article 15. My CO and 1sgt did not like me due to something on a deployment they were wrong and I was right and they could not get over it. I know I was not going to get a fear deal so I ask for a court martial. 3 week later the CO was replace and the new Co called me and ask me if I still wanted a court martial and I told him that I trust him for the decision on the Article 15. So it all goes back to "What do you think your career can afford"

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Jul 18 at 2019 8:39 AM

2019-07-18T08:39:55-04:00

None of your story matters. You only need to know one thing. If you get an Article 15 it's because you agreed to waive your right to a court martial. An article 15 is little more than a plea bargain. YOU ADMIT GUILT and give your commander the power to discipline you. If you really feel you are innocent --that you did nothing wrong--then refuse and let them court martial you. You will most likely be found guilty and your punishment with be infinitely worse, you'll likely be booted out (which it looks like your going to be anyway) but you will also have a less than honorable discharge and a criminal record then. Your choice.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Jul 31 at 2019 10:22 PM

2019-07-31T22:22:52-04:00

Ask your JAG. But I should think the answer would be "Yes". Lying to anyone in the chain of command can (and should) lead to very serious consequences because in executing our duties we have each other's lives in our hands, we cannot lie to one another. Remember Roger's Rangers? One of their primary rules was "You can lie all you want to a civilian about what we have done, but don't ever lie to another Ranger or an Officer!" We owe each other the truth.

Response by SSG Jack Jurgensen made Jul 31 at 2019 10:36 PM

2019-07-31T22:36:46-04:00

Well if you disagree with the Article 15 when they give it to you. You can request to see the next higher level commander. But bar none if you do that make sure you dot every i and cross every t or you'll screw yourself.

Response by SPC Cameron Hale made Mar 27 at 2020 5:03 PM

2020-03-27T17:03:36-04:00

Update, I was unfound of the charges.

Response by CPT William Jones made Apr 26 at 2020 2:46 PM

2020-04-26T14:46:42-04:00

There is nothing you can do at this point two Sets of paperwork punishment things in such a short period of time is a real problem for me as a commander. You are still being flagged and you mess up again. What are we going to have in two weeks. You aren't giving us much to work with. Knowing no more than that I would probably want you out of my unit. You seem to be a lot of trouble and Im not sure how dependable you would be while we are deployed. Is it to a shooting place or what.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Mar 20 at 2021 11:09 AM

2021-03-20T11:09:26-04:00

I recommend you see your 1sgt. To clear this matter up. 2nd your 1sgt is not in your direct coc. You should have got permission from your SL or PSG.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Apr 24 at 2021 5:41 PM

2021-04-24T17:41:46-04:00

Depends on nature of lie.