Can a Senior NCO order a lower enlisted (Private) to hand over their personal cell phone?

2017-12-20T15:59:32-05:00

Response by SFC Greg Bruorton made Dec 20 at 2017 4:04 PM

2017-12-20T16:04:18-05:00

The noncom can direct, but not order anything except burgers and fries. Orders are relegated to commissioned and warrant officers of all grades.

Remember this opening sentence? "You are hereby directed to report to your Selective Service representative . . ."

Must've been a noncom writing that letter.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2017 4:09 PM

2017-12-20T16:09:09-05:00

Are they taking it because the SM is being distracted by it and not doing their job? Then I don't see an issue. Are they trying to take it as part of an investigation? Then I see an issue.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Dec 20 at 2017 4:42 PM

2017-12-20T16:42:41-05:00

Really need more information before giving a ye or nay on this one. As far as the word order is concerned, under the correct circumstances this is entirely warranted. Many people have already posted that an order cannot be given by an NCO, they are mistaken. There are two kinds of orders, direct and lawful. Direct orders can only be given by officers, however, lawful orders can be given by NCOs. Under certain circumstances, it could be a lawful order to surrender a personal cellular device.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Dec 20 at 2017 4:53 PM

2017-12-20T16:53:41-05:00

Didn't have none of those fancy cell phones in my day. I would tell the troops that the cell phones were a distraction and were not to be in the training area. Then I would drop hints as to why no one can have a phone.

Response by PO2 Scott Fahsbender made Dec 20 at 2017 6:32 PM

2017-12-20T18:32:10-05:00

My submarine had specific guidelines prohibiting cell phones in certain areas, the engine room being the most noteworthy. This was to prevent purposeful and/or incidental distribution of classified material. If a chief had noticed a cell phone in one of these areas he certainly would have been justified in taking it away, but it probably would have been given back at the end of the day. if it was distracting from training or something like that, they could have taken it then, too. Otherwise, that would be pretty sketchy.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Dec 20 at 2017 7:36 PM

2017-12-20T19:36:46-05:00

Of course the safest answer is "it depends" but in my view if the NCO suspects your using the Cell Phone as part of larger prohibited activity on a military post or by the UCMJ, then the answer is yes. You should ask a Lawyer on this but I think it was already ruled that a Cell Phone since it broadcasts over unsecure and easily intercepted medium is really not a device covered by the Privacy Act. So searching it would not really fall under the same category as opening your mail and reading it. You should ask a lawyer versed in Military Law though because I am not 100% sure on this.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2017 7:48 PM

2017-12-20T19:48:56-05:00

Does the senior NCO have a warrant?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2017 7:50 PM

2017-12-20T19:50:15-05:00

I agree, this question needs more clarification as to whether the "taking" of a cell phone is for purposes of keeping the Soldier from using it, or inspecting information contained on the cellphone. The term "phone" is a colloquialism that has not exactly kept up with the technological age. A smart phone, is of course, much more than simply a phone. It's a mobile computer that contains an incredible amount of personal information from pictures, bank statements, private email etc. An NCO could temporarily take a cellphone to remove a training distractor, for example, but not look at the contents of a cellphone without consent of the owner. Frankly, I have issued command directives for Soldiers to put their phones in a communal box during training times, allowing them to be removed for use during breaks and lunch.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Dec 21 at 2017 9:37 AM

2017-12-21T09:37:04-05:00

For purposes of removing a distraction during training/mission ops/briefings/security policy/etc, then yes. The NCO is well within his/her rights to confiscate (for lack of better phrasing) cell phones. If he/she wants to look at the content of said device, then they will need a search warrant.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Dec 21 at 2017 10:37 AM

2017-12-21T10:37:38-05:00

1. This is too vague. 2. If you have your cell phone and are using it during duty hours when you should be training, or on a detail, my answer would be HELL YES. If the Army wanted you to have a cell phone they would have issued you one. Seriously, using your cell phone in the above situation would be no different than taking a nap- bottom line you are not giving 100% to the task. And yes child, an NCO can order you and back it up with UCMJ actions. Use your cell phone on YOUR time not the Army's!

Response by SPC David Willis made Dec 21 at 2017 10:46 AM

2017-12-21T10:46:44-05:00

Only to prevent you from using it when you shouldn't be using it, but they cant just come knock on your door and demand you hand over your phone when ever they'd like. I also don't believe they can search through its contents for investigative purposes, but on that I'm not so sure.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 21 at 2017 11:35 AM

2017-12-21T11:35:41-05:00

Confiscate legal personal property? NO.
But absolutely order the SM to not use it, have in their hand in any way shape or form during duty hours unless on a prescribed and authorized break.
And if the SM is so inclined, Id be happy to take it off your hands and store it for you so do not run afoul of that requirement...... Your choice Soldier,,,, but you have been given a lawful order.. If you so much as fall down and have the phone fall out of your pocket and into your hand.. you are going to have problems.
So what is your preference? Maintain it and not touch it? or lock it and drop it in this box here till lunch time?

That said you did not provide much in way of context.
Is the SM and NCO standing near a restricted area that phones are not allowed?
Has the phone been used in a manner that violates policy, regulations, a lawful order?
Is the NCO providing what may technically be not allowed, but it is a leadership decision in effort of dealing with an issue short of UCMJ?

I did that a fair amount for minor infractions of the bone head nature..... "You can deal with me and no complaints or you can deal with the commander and UCMJ..which is it and you can not change your mind after"

I only offered that on things that no one got hurt, no crime committed and no malice intended.
Drunk SM peed on the company "rock" last night
Pissed off SM through a wrench in the MP, broke a window
SM backed up a vehicle without a ground guide in an empty parking lot at night and hit a pole.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2017 8:31 PM

2017-12-21T20:31:14-05:00

With appropriate justification, YES. Is it a safety hazard? Is it a security threat? Is there an OPSEC issue? Is it in an unauthorized location? Is it considered potential evidence? Is the Soldier violating regulations/orders? Etc., etc., etc...

https://www.voanews.com/a/hamas-sets-honey-traps--to-hack-israeli-soldiers-phones-army-says/3672124.html

Hamas Sets 'Honey Traps' to Hack Israeli Soldiers' Phones: Army

An officer, who briefed reporters on the alleged scam, said Hamas that runs the Gaza Strip uncovered no major military secrets in the intelligence-gathering operation

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 22 at 2017 3:37 PM

2017-12-22T15:37:23-05:00

I can see a number of situations where this might occur.
Most of them involve being told to put the damned thing away and concentrate on the task at hand... and SPC Tentpeg not getting the message.
As a rule, I don't lightly take things away from people. It breeds resentment. And it makes the subordinate feel like a child.
But I do hand out opportunities for quality time with some Sr NCOs if Joe can't figure it out the easy way.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jul 26 at 2019 11:31 AM

2019-07-26T11:31:34-04:00

Ya know, that's a really interesting question...not a clue as to the answer, obv, though, as I'd said, an interesting question nonetheless, certainly....

Response by SFC Mark Loaiza made Jul 26 at 2019 4:21 PM

2019-07-26T16:21:49-04:00

Yes, depending on the situation.

Response by SP5 Thomas Jameson made Jul 26 at 2019 5:25 PM

2019-07-26T17:25:52-04:00

Was troop issued that phone? Answer yes. Did troop buy the phone on his own? Answer non-military issue, not approved. Yes.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Jul 26 at 2019 8:10 PM

2019-07-26T20:10:17-04:00

He can order him to turn it off and go back to the barracks and put under lock and key

Response by SSgt Charles Freeman made Feb 29 at 2020 4:29 PM

2020-02-29T16:29:07-05:00

It's Article 134. I know I'm late to the party, but damn! If you have a phone and you can't have a phone and do your duty like you're supposed to you're gonna have to put the phone somewhere you can't get to it. Why is this even a question? What is happening in the military? The military has rules, and order, and discipline! If you don't like that crap don't enlist! Go find a job in the real world that'll let you play with your phone half the damn day!