Can a SGT be pinned SSG without ALC if in the IDES process?

2016-07-22T17:17:42-04:00

(EDIT 2: I've gotten great feedback (mostly) and have addressed the issue with my chain of command and HRC. I knew I would retire/separate at the promotion list grade if my MEB results in discharge, but what I found out is that being in the IDES process "holds my spot." If I am retained, I can then go to ALC and will be promoted upon completion. My main concern was that if I AM retained, I would miss that chance, but HRC has confirmed that I will be given the opportunity to attend the school and pin the rank if I'm not separated/retired. Thanks to most everyone for the great feedback and support. I'm officially un-following this thread, so I'll probably miss any further responses.)

(EDIT: Yes, it's about me. Also, I'm not looking for loopholes, I'm not whining about an unfair system, I'm not griping over what I feel is owed to me, I'm just trying to understand the letter of the law to determine if it's worth further effort or if I should just go to my VA exams, take my rating, and call it a day. Please keep the hooah hooah suck it up rhetoric to a minimum, I'm genuinely just trying to get meaningful advice :) )

Scenario: a solider makes cutoff for promotion to E6, but does not show up on the by-name list and is told it's because they have not been to ALC. Said soldier has been in the IDES/MEB/PEB process pending VA exams and ratings to determine if a medical separation/retirement is to occur and therefore cannot attend ALC. I have scoured the MILPER messages and AR 600-8-19. According to AR 600-8-19, the only requirement for promotion to SSG is completion of WLC/BLC, but the MILPER and the new STEP system says ALC is a requirement. The regulation states that IDES exempts the soldier from requirements such as weapons, APFT, and SRR, but not a word is spoken about ALC.

I do realize that if the soldier is promotable at the time of separation/retirement, they will be compensated and separated/retired at the promotion list grade. That's something, at least, but it's kinda crappy in my opinion that they get denied the promotion otherwise for something that may be no fault of their own.

I feel a combat-related injury that initiates an MEB/PEB shouldn't keep a soldier from getting pinned to a rank they've earned, not because they have chosen not to go to ALC, not because they have failed ALC, but because their injury has prevented it. I understand the reasoning, not filling a slot with a soldier that will otherwise not be able to serve the position or is going to potentially separate shortly afterwards, but if there's no concession or exception it feels like the soldier is being punished for shedding blood for their country.

Response by SFC David McMahon made Jul 22 at 2016 5:20 PM

2016-07-22T17:20:52-04:00

If you made cutoff and meet the requirements to maintain SGT, then yes. But I will be honest, I'm using knowledge that is about a year old and did not research it.

You can not make the next rank if you have not completed the requirements for the current rank.

Also, even if I'm wrong, if your promotable and are medically retired, you should be retired at that rank (meaning SSG in your case).

But I would validate this with your case worker but I'm nearly certain I'm correct.

Response by MSG Pat Colby made Jul 22 at 2016 11:05 PM

2016-07-22T23:05:08-04:00

Where specifically are you at in the IDES process? Is there a possibility you may be retained?

http://www.wtc.army.mil/modules/soldier/s6-ides.html

Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES)

The mission of the Warrior Transition Command (WTC) is to develop, coordinate and integrate the Army's Warrior Care and Transition Program (WCTP) for wounded, ill and injured Soldiers, Veterans and their Families or Caregivers to promote success in the force or civilian life.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2016 1:19 AM

2016-07-23T01:19:05-04:00

With the implementation of STEP the only way i could see you pinning is if your board was held prior to 1 January 2016. Saw this happen with a Soldier, promoted to E7 without SLC, upon further verification turned out because the board concluded Sept 2015 he was grandfathered in.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2016 10:49 AM

2016-07-23T10:49:13-04:00

Not in the new promotion program. The NCOES schools are required for promotion

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Jul 23 at 2016 2:42 PM

2016-07-23T14:42:37-04:00

Good luck no matter what happens. Keep your head held high.

Response by SSG Kristopher Rigdon made Jul 23 at 2016 10:24 PM

2016-07-23T22:24:07-04:00

Read the most recent MELPER, you stated it yourself. The Milper and now step says ALC is required. IF THAT IS TRUE, MILPER's are policies and regulations that have not made it through the publishing process

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2016 2:43 AM

2016-07-24T02:43:55-04:00

Under the new Promotion Program Requirements you need ALC to get pinned E6 (Select, Train, Educate, Promote)

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2016 7:28 PM

2016-07-24T19:28:16-04:00

Unfortunately under the new STEP program you have to have the current NCOES for the pay grade completed before being pinned.

Response by SSG Robert Albright made Jul 25 at 2016 12:16 AM

2016-07-25T00:16:05-04:00

I medically retired three years ago; keep in mind, this may have changed, but what we were told, and I saw happen, was that if you were promotable during the process, and you are medically retired, you will be medically retired at the next higher grade. Meaning SGT(P) retires as a SSG ect.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2016 5:48 AM

2016-07-25T05:48:19-04:00

However, you will still be promoted at separation

Response by SGT Mike Thompson made Jul 25 at 2016 3:45 PM

2016-07-25T15:45:37-04:00

If you are pending medical seperation you will be pinned ssg regardless....

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2016 12:09 AM

2016-07-26T00:09:29-04:00

The army is wearing out people who are not medically for there was an article posted about it in the army times. And if your going to be separated why get promoted a ssg is a squad leader and a mentor. I have only ever had 1 real team leader and 1 real squad leader they were the standered and they were mentors. If you cannot be a mentor and a leader to lower enlisted then you should get out sgt I'm sick of having NCO's that cant to there job

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2016 4:42 AM

2016-07-26T04:42:33-04:00

As of January this year, the promotion requirements changed to require NCOES prior to promotion.

Response by 1SG Jeremy Evans made Jul 26 at 2016 11:48 AM

2016-07-26T11:48:33-04:00

In addition to the other comments, you have to have at least 12 months remaining on your service contract too.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2016 2:58 PM

2016-07-26T14:58:39-04:00

No not anymore.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2016 7:50 AM

2016-07-27T07:50:26-04:00

You should be focused on getting out and getting a career started Sergeant. Your time in the Military may be coming to an end. To answer your question though, No, you have to attend the required NCOES per that pay grade.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2016 6:19 PM

2016-07-27T18:19:00-04:00

Just to help you out, I did read in a regulation , I can't think which regulation it was that you could attend school on a profile if it was deployment related. I know I couldn't attend school on a temporary profile. I don't know if your injury prevent you from doing the walk or bicycle. I met people in ALC who had a profile for pushups and I think sit ups also, but he still passed. When I find where I saw it, I can let you know. Don't give up just yet , The high % you will get from VA is undeniable. .....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2016 6:31 PM

2016-07-27T18:31:06-04:00

Look in AR 350-1 3-14 profiles..........

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2016 8:39 PM

2016-07-27T20:39:32-04:00

I've not been in for awhile. So can't really comment. Not sure on the new regulations.

Response by SGT Rodney Long made Jul 31 at 2016 8:40 PM

2016-07-31T20:40:45-04:00

You have already answered you own question. The issue here is its not the answer you wanted to hear. You do know the rank and position is to fill the Army needs more then your desires. You, at this point cannot give the Army what it needs so you are being passed over for some one that can.
I know its upsetting and seems unfair to you but its the needs of the Army being fulfilled.

Response by SGT Rodney Helms made Jan 23 at 2017 9:07 PM

2017-01-23T21:07:03-05:00

Go for that E6 brother.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2017 7:00 PM

2017-05-16T19:00:13-04:00

The new regulations says you have to finished ALC and SSD2 in order to get pinned. You can be selected but not pinned.

Response by SSG Lance Wendling made Nov 28 at 2017 11:16 PM

2017-11-28T23:16:02-05:00

I went to PLDC and upon graduation was asked if I had any interest in DSS. I entered DSS and was promoted to Sgt halfway through. We needed an e-6 and I was given stripes and served as an active ssg. I left service before going to school.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2018 6:55 PM

2018-01-06T18:55:30-05:00

I am in a situation similar to this. I am medically retiring soon. My question is on my ERB it shows I am promotable to SSG. I checked the cutoff points and I would have made the cut off last mont and this month. The problem is I can’t attend ALC because of my injuries. Will I be able to retire as a SSG or my current rank which is SGT? Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.