Can a Soldier be flagged for never taking a record APFT due to a profile?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:36:49 -0400

I got a PFC that came off AIT. Due to injuries he has never taken a record APFT and has gone from profile to profile because of the surgeries that came up. So at no fault of his own (injury) he has never taken a record APFT. The unit flagged him for not having a record APFT so when the automatic promotion to SPC came up he was passed. Months later the unit decides that because he's been on profile and never taken an APFT at no fault of his own that they'll lift the flag. Flag lifted, he gets promoted to SPC. A month later due to a pay inquiry on the Soldier the unit finds that they should've never lifted the flag and is now demoting him back to PFC and imposing a flag.

I already looked at AR 600-8-19, Par 7-4, Soldier is in non-promotable status when: "Lack of a qualifying APFT - not within 14 months".

So the question is, is the unit correct in demoting him to PFC?

Thank you. Any insight is appreciated.

Edit: Just to clarify, he's never taken a record APFT. Not even in AIT because of the injury.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jun 27 at 2019 7:57 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:57:37 -0400

Did this Soldier not have a record APFT in AIT either? Where is that record?

If it has legitimately been over a year of non-stop profile, this Soldier should either be in WTU or going through Med Board. Why did AIT pass along a severely broken Soldier?

I think there is more here....

But based on what you have provided, if he has NEVER taken a record APFT, he should be flagged, and demotion is proper. There is no regulation requiring that a record APFT be conducted by the current unit, however. Record APFT from AIT, or even basic, is STILL a record APFT. Most units want to fo an APFT as part of gaining a new Soldier, but this is not required. That old APFT is still valid (this goea for ALL Soldiers getting to a new unit). One of my pet peeves is taking a record APFT right before leaving a unit, then again at reception, because "inprocessing," then again at new unit, because "we don't trust reception." I go it, should always be able to pass. Yada yada. But it boils down to Commanders having a default position of either not trusting other Commanders or not trusting me. Either one is bad for the Army.

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made Jun 27 at 2019 7:57 AM

MSG Gary Eckert — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:57:46 -0400

Demotion is a legal action to reduce to Soldier. The unit completed an administrative action to void an erroneous promotion and the unit is required to do such. At the same time the Commander needed to make a decision on "de facto status" to determine whether his should keep any pay or allowances paid to him while he was wearing Specialist.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 27 at 2019 8:06 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:06:48 -0400

Yes it is legal and correct. I was had to initiate the same for an E6 to E7, imagine that! Bottom line is that the unit made a mistake, while sad and wrong on their part, there is actually no foul here as the Soldier should not have been promoted in the first place. The Soldier is also at risk of separation, there is a limit as to the type of profile and how long it exists. Thank you for your service.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Jun 27 at 2019 9:11 AM

MAJ Javier Rivera — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:11:02 -0400

Yes, the commander made the hard and right decision to correct the error.

Now the real problem is the Soldier’s health. Why is the unit doing to get him in the right treatment path? Based on the provided information he’s on a separation path due to no fault of his own. So, I ask again: what is his leadership doing to take care of this Soldier?

HINT: make sure his medical records properly reflect his conditions and all medical visits/treatments.

If MEPS cleared him for service then the Army broke him!!!!!

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 27 at 2019 10:41 AM

SSG Brian G. — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:41:38 -0400

There is more to this story than what is being told. Unless things have changed a whole lot, AIT, as a requirement calls for a passing APFT. That was a requirement. How was this soldier passed along, let alone graduated? There should have been a modified APFT at the very least to allow for alternate events. Or if the SM was that sick, that medically challenged they should have been evaluated for a Med Board and separation.

The Unit screwed up in lifting the flag, just as they screwed up in promoting him. Neither should have happened so it was corrected. He is on a fast track for medical separation it seems.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Jun 28 at 2019 8:12 AM

SGT Mathew Husen — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:12:56 -0400

All.you can do right now is make sure he has lots of copies of his medical records so he will be squared away when submitting claims for VA benefits.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2019 10:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 22:50:00 -0400

Wait, how could he have never taken a record part? Don’t you need one to pass but and ait?

Response by COL David Pelkey made Jun 1 at 2020 1:00 PM

COL David Pelkey — Mon, 01 Jun 2020 13:00:19 -0400

To answer the FLAG question - The Flag is not required.

AR 600-8-2 dtd 10/23/2012 SUSPENSION OF FAVORABLE PERSONNEL ACTIONS
Para 2-3 (b)
b. “Army Physical Fitness Test failure” (Flag code J). Initiate a Flag when a Soldier fails a record APFT or when, through the Soldier’s fault as determined by the commander, the Soldier fails to take the APFT within the time prescribed by existing regulations, or when directed by the commanding officer (as provided for in AR 350–1). A Flag is not required for a Soldier who has a permanent or temporary profile that precludes taking the APFT or is unable to undergo an APFT because of conditions beyond the Soldier’s control (as determined by the commander). Soldiers with a profile effective after the APFT will remain flagged until a record APFT is passed. A Flag is not required when the commander determines the Soldier cannot be administered an alternate APFT because of conditions beyond the
Soldier’s control. Soldiers who become pregnant after being flagged for failing an APFT (as determined by a physician) will remain flagged until successfully passing an APFT. Remove the Flag (code E) on date of compliance. If, as determined by her primary care provider, the Soldier was pregnant at the time of APFT failure, the commander will immediately remove the Flag (code Z).

For the promotion/demotion, review AR 600-8-19 again for impact for Soldiers with profiles. I don't have enough information to determine for my self (permanent versus temp, what restrictions, etc). Depending on the situation the reduction may or may not have been correct.