Can a soldier be punished for wearing a deployment patch that was not earned?

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 00:40:14 -0400

Soldier was found on a social media post about a year ago wearing a deployment patch that was not earned. Wondering what actions can be taken and regulation sources on the subject.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2020 12:47 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 00:47:29 -0400

Sir,

Be mindful that the SSI is not “earned” but issued. There isn’t really anything that can be done unless you want to pursue stolen valor but even that in and of itself is hard to prove. You need to be 100% certain the questioned soldier was not in fact in an area designated for combat operation. I am authorized a SSI even though my SRB shows an operational deployment.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Aug 28 at 2020 1:06 AM

SFC William Farrell — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 01:06:01 -0400

Take him up in one of your birds and push him out the door CW2 Private RallyPoint Member.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2020 1:13 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 01:13:10 -0400

It starts with a deployment patch, then an added ribbon for a campaign, then a ribbon for valor, then a CAB/CIB, etc....

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Aug 28 at 2020 1:48 AM

SPC Erich Guenther — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 01:48:27 -0400

I had a PSG that wore a fake Ranger Ribbon in the 1980's on Active Duty and was caught via records check. He went AWOL after he heard the records check was comming. So I have no idea what the punishment would be, he didn't stick around to find out. But I would expect there is punishment that is fairly severe otherwise he wouldn't have run like that.

Response by SPC David S. made Aug 28 at 2020 4:19 AM

SPC David S. — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 04:19:15 -0400

Promote them to E5?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2020 4:40 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 04:40:45 -0400

Is this a case of someone who has deployed, but is wearing a different patch than who he deployed in support of?

Or a Soldier who has never deployed, wearing a patch?

Either way, I would have that face to face conversation, and let them walk themselves into a corner. People like that can not handle face to face confrontation.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2020 8:36 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 08:36:30 -0400

UCMJ -Article 134-56 - "Wearing unauthorized insignia, decoration, badge, ribbon, device, or lapel button".

Response by CW4 Keith Dolliver made Aug 28 at 2020 8:56 AM

CW4 Keith Dolliver — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 08:56:29 -0400

Do you know for a fact that it was an overt act or could it have been a mistake of what he thought was authorized? A lot of units (and leaders) mistakenly think they are authorized to wear a patch by virtue of being attached to a unit, while in reality most times they are not.

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Aug 28 at 2020 9:57 AM

SSG Paul Headlee — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 09:57:35 -0400

See my comment to 1LT Richard Lesher below. Additionally, while attending PNCOC/CA at Ft Sherman, RP at the end of '83 I had the distinct displeasure of encountering a TAC NCO whom we all believed to be a SSG. This guy was so obnoxious I had to talk myself out of kicking his ass a minimum of three times a day. Turns out he was actually a SP5 who wanted to be a SSG. IIRC, he was court martialed for this. If these guys had half as much brains as they do balls they'd be unstoppable.

Response by SSG Dennis R. made Aug 28 at 2020 10:49 AM

SSG Dennis R. — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 10:49:10 -0400

In my day we called them "PX war heroes".

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 28 at 2020 2:22 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 14:22:17 -0400

So it all depends on context. If it is simply someone trying to look cool they would be considered out of uniform and the appropriate actions would need to be taken. If this is just the tip of the ice berg of false claims and the individual is actually claiming a combat deployment they weren't actually on and all of the things that go with deploying you could potentially be looking at a bigger issue. It all depends on what they are claiming and what their story is. It could be as small as a device on a uniform or it could be as ridiculous as falsified documents in an attempt to improve their OMPF and promotion/career prospects.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 28 at 2020 2:25 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 14:25:16 -0400

The Soldier is technically out of uniform. Further there are good order and discipline generalizations that can be tacked on, as it is nether in good order, nor does it show discupline. It is an attempt to deceive. Bottom line, just as if it were a formation as long as the Soldier removes it when recognized and is given a stiff brow beat it should go further unnoticed.

Response by CPL Earl Kochis made Aug 28 at 2020 4:03 PM

CPL Earl Kochis — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 16:03:16 -0400

First question are you sure it was not issued 24hrs on ground!! Second have you talked to the soldier? Three before assuming he didn’t earn it you may want to do a records check! I’m authorized six combat/deployment patched but never ever wore any of them due to the fact I didn’t feel I earned them. Also authorized two Arcoms I refused to accept due to the fact I was just doing my job.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2020 4:09 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Aug 2020 04:09:39 -0400

First. I’m hoping this guy your are talking about is regular army correct? National Guardsmen and Reserves are dealt with under different rules, depending on their status. UCMJ may not be applicable to them.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2020 2:35 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Aug 2020 14:35:30 -0400

Had a senior NCO that thought that being at Guantanamo Cuba merited a combat badge. It just took talking to them to resolve it. Sometimes they really believe they are entitled to wear it, other times just trying to get over. Either way, you have to have that difficult conversation to get it resolved and get them back on track.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Aug 31 at 2020 12:03 AM

SPC Byron Skinner — Mon, 31 Aug 2020 00:03:45 -0400

Byron Skinner. It sounds like the military has not enough to do if have the time finding these “errors”. Somebody who would make such an error is likely not a Veteran in the first place.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cichelli made Sep 11 at 2020 1:43 PM

CPT Lawrence Cichelli — Fri, 11 Sep 2020 13:43:44 -0400

I know of an O-6 that was told to retire for doing that. If he didn't a 3-star would have given him an article 15. Personnel wearing unauthorized items are subject to UCMJ actions.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2021 7:30 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Jan 2021 07:30:42 -0500

Yes. I had a Sgt report in after DS with quite a rack of ribbons. No problem with that as it was fairly common then. Except he had a PUC, CAR and gold jump wings. I didn't add up. I was checking out to deploy, but passed it on to BN XO. Found later he only rated NDSM, had a buddy in S1 put them in his SRB on Okinawa. He took a bust to LCpl at a court martial.

Response by CPT William Jones made Jan 4 at 2021 2:39 PM

CPT William Jones — Mon, 04 Jan 2021 14:39:37 -0500

An active duty soldier can wear anything on his uniform that he/she has orders saying it was earned and yes you can be punished for wearing something not autharized. If not on active duty it would be a case for stolen Valor and you caan get in trouble for that in the civilian laws

Response by CPL Benjamin Cousins made Jan 31 at 2021 2:12 PM

CPL Benjamin Cousins — Sun, 31 Jan 2021 14:12:32 -0500

If they are ARMT then let their platoon handle it in house. I mean times have changed, but when I was in this would be handled through level 1 combatives. Then again that might not be allowed anymore, and if that is the case then put it in a counseling statement as evidence to be used if the need arises for real disciplinary measures under the UCMJ (drugs, DUI, domestic abuse, etc...) BTW... Apaches rule! (Former 15Y10 here).

Response by SGT Greg Gold made Feb 28 at 2021 11:13 PM

SGT Greg Gold — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 23:13:40 -0500

The answer to this depends almost entirely on the attitude of the SM in question. In the guard I knew an E6 sporting a 1st CAV FWSSI. He was also one of the most self promoting (in a good but annoying way) troops I've ever come across. Long story short, for whatever reason someone got curious and started digging into his 201 file. The E6 found out about the investigation, but just couldn't reign himself in. When the unit went on title 10 orders, they hit him with a bar to reenlistment, and his career cameto a screetching halt. Turns out when he was a young active duty E3 he had been in Kuwait on a training mission. The Cav units that advanced into Iraq were authorized combat patches, but the units in Kuwait for training were not.

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made May 3 at 2021 11:27 AM

MSG Reid Zohfeld — Mon, 03 May 2021 11:27:17 -0400

It is against the stolen valor act The person can be jailed in military and civilian jail
If the Army still had the Warrant Officer school at Fort Rucker you would not ask such a question

Response by LTC Karen McKay made May 11 at 2021 9:48 PM

LTC Karen McKay — Tue, 11 May 2021 21:48:39 -0400

It's called "stolen valor." There's too much of it going around and it calls for severe discipline.
There was a case a few years ago where a businessman got a lucrative government contract on the grounds that he was a "disabled" former serviceman wounded in the line of duty. It turned out that his LOD injury was a sprained ankle in a military prep school (high school.) Senator Tammy Duckworth took him apart in a hearing. Then-Representative Mark Meadows, working with LT Nicholas Warr, USMC, author of 'Phase Line Green, The Battle for Hue, 1968' and 'Charlie One Five; A Marine Company’s Vietnam War', tackled the issue of stolen valor.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Jul 29 at 2021 12:15 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 12:15:45 -0400

Just turn that over to the First Sergeant. That's all you need to do.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 29 at 2021 3:28 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 15:28:05 -0400

Most certainly.

Response by SGT Scott Adie made Jul 29 at 2021 7:01 PM

SGT Scott Adie — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 19:01:40 -0400

A nice slap up along side the head would bring some satisfaction. It's another form of 'stolen valor' but it's even worse coming from inside the ranks. I remember when I rotated home from Vietnam, I didn't want to be seen with any Army insignia. Now my CIB and 1st Cav pin are proudly on my cap as you can see.

Response by A1C Paul Kelly made Jul 29 at 2021 7:09 PM

A1C Paul Kelly — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 19:09:14 -0400

Yes, and I've hauled some of them in.

Response by PO3 James Heine made Jul 30 at 2021 12:11 AM

PO3 James Heine — Fri, 30 Jul 2021 00:11:43 -0400

oh yes

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Aug 25 at 2021 4:36 PM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 16:36:58 -0400

No one cares... doesn't give him any more or less reputation in the Army or tabks, no promotion points

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Sep 6 at 2021 6:32 PM

1SG Brian Adams — Mon, 06 Sep 2021 18:32:18 -0400

Yes, PX Soldier..

Response by CPO Arthur Weinberger made Sep 17 at 2021 9:52 AM

CPO Arthur Weinberger — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 09:52:11 -0400

The LTC has the article. The soldier should be coerced to drop his or pants and panties in formation and be given ten rather firm paddles also.

Response by SGT Wayne Grindstaff made Oct 29 at 2021 6:37 PM

SGT Wayne Grindstaff — Fri, 29 Oct 2021 18:37:49 -0400

To me wearing any patch or award/ribbon that was not earned is the same as stolen valor. It cheapens what that patch, award or medal the honest veteran has earned. Punishment by the UCMJ for the active duty and jail time for civilians, whether they are a veteran or not. This is a real sore spot for me and have seen it out of the military for 50 years.