Can a Soldier keep an Airborne tab once the unit loses it?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 08:26:20 -0400

We are having a debate in our shop...

If a Soldier is deployed and awarded a combat patch that has an Airborne Tab above it, and after redeploying the unit losses the tab... does the Soldier keep the tab on the patch that is on his right shoulder?

If anyone can answer this and include where I can find this in writing, I would greatly appreciate it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 8:34 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 08:34:18 -0400

You wear the patch that you were awarded. There is nothing that I can find that states you have to change the patch awarded if the design changes, losing the tab is just that, at a later time.

Response by 1SG Mike Case made Jun 24 at 2014 8:41 AM

1SG Mike Case — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 08:41:10 -0400

Look in AR 670-1, 22-12. That will get you headed in the right direction.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 8:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 08:53:46 -0400

A Soldier isn't "awarded" the airborne tab. If deployed at a company level or above to a combat zone, you are authorized to wear your SSI, as your SSI-FWTS. This statement in and of itself says NOTHING about future authorization of the SSI (note, not the SSI-FWTS) not being authorized the airborne tab or what have you.

You'd be hard pressed to inform someone that they didn't earn ALL OF the patch they're wearing over something as simple as an Airborne Tab.

Response by 1SG Mike Case made Jun 24 at 2014 9:05 AM

1SG Mike Case — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 09:05:32 -0400

What the arguement is, is that units were wearing an airborne tab above their patch and were not authorized to wear it. An ALARACT message came out in 2011 stating who was truly authorized to wear the airborne tab above their patch and who wasn't. You still see some patches with airborne tabs above them above them, even though they are not authorized and the arguement is that they had the tab before the message came out, but since that unit was never authorized to wear it, then it should come off.

Response by SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh made Jun 24 at 2014 10:02 AM

SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:02:14 -0400

This exact thing happened with the 20th Eng Bd

Up to about 5 years ago the 20th Eng Bde was a Airborne designated unit, tabbed, maroon beret and all that. Then as part of the force realignment they lost their Airborne designation.

The question is for the peanut gallery, if I was deployed with the 20th back in 2005 when they were still an Airborne unit do I still wear the Airborne tab version of their patch or do I now have to wear the un-tabbed version.

Please note for discussion purposes the assumption is that I do qualify to wear the 20th Eng Bde patch.

Just to clarify, not talking about current SSI patch. That one is real easy. If the unit changes patches then you change patches.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 10:16 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:16:59 -0400

The Airborne tab issue was addressed in ALARACT 435/2011 Units
Authorized to Wear the Airborne Tab with the Shoulder Sleeve Insignia, dated 30 November 2011, as MSG Mike Case has indicated. It was to be superseded when the newest revision of AR 670-1 and can be found Ch 2 para 22-12 f(3).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 12:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:44:12 -0400

SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh understands exactly what I was trying to ask.

I understand that some units were wearing things they were not authorized, and some lost the privileges during the force restructure.

My question is in reference to a COMBAT PATCH that was awarded during a deployment WITH the Airborne tab. Then later on lost the right to wear the tab. Obviously the patch on the left shoulder will lose to tab, but does it stay over the combat patch (because that's how it was awarded)?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 2:21 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:21:39 -0400

The tab that is on his right shoulder is the unit patch. If that unit lost its status tyou cannot wear the airborne tab above it. But if the soldier was deployed with that unit during its airborne time then his left shoulder patch, combat side, can wear the tab over it. Right side patches are current not living in the past!

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Jun 25 at 2014 10:50 AM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:50:49 -0400

525th BfSB out of Ft. Bragg was one unit that transitioned from Airborne status to no-Airborne. Combat patch from the 2007-2009 Iraq deployment includes the Airborne tab even for Soldiers not airborne qualified because it was a part of the patch.
You need to be airborne qualified and on Airborne status to wear the airborne tab over the unit patch. Last I checked, when the units lost Airborne status, they lost their jump slots as well, with the exception of LRS detachments.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2014 2:01 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 14:01:07 -0400

If the unit patch had a tab when you deployed it stays on the combat patch.

Response by SGT James Elphick made Jun 25 at 2014 4:43 PM

SGT James Elphick — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:43:12 -0400

Units are inactivated but their combat patches remain, therefore a change in status from airborne to non-airborne should not have an effect on the patch. It is worn as awarded.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2015 6:14 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 May 2015 18:14:01 -0400

If the Soldier has a memorandum/order awarding it, I would assume they could keep it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2016 4:24 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Oct 2016 16:24:12 -0400

For combat patches on your right shoulder, if awarded the authorization to wear Airborne Ranger tab with the unit patch. Then you are authorize to wear that tab with the unit patch. As for your left shoulder, you would then have to remove the tab once the unit loses the Airborne ranger status. That is how I understand it.

Response by LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr made Nov 3 at 2016 12:41 AM

LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 00:41:09 -0400

20th Engineer Brigade during Desert Storm was an Airborne unit and we were awarded the unit patch as our SSI for combat service. Later the unit was designated. But until I retired I worn the 20th engineer Brigade unit patch with the Airborne tab.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2016 8:23 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Nov 2016 20:23:49 -0500

Response by SGT Drew Clark made Jan 27 at 2017 1:28 AM

SGT Drew Clark — Fri, 27 Jan 2017 01:28:19 -0500

I believe they should keep it. It was earned while the unit is Airborne.

Response by SPC Gary Welch made Dec 12 at 2018 11:49 AM

SPC Gary Welch — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 11:49:01 -0500

If it had when you earned your combat patch then you keep it as your combat patch

Response by SSG Dan Hernandez made Dec 12 at 2018 8:16 PM

SSG Dan Hernandez — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 20:16:17 -0500

You wear the tab as presented. You can be in an airborne unit without being airborne qualified and if you are awarded a combat patch you were it with the airborne tab regardless of your airborne status. In addition you wear the patch as it is awarded to you. If it was an airborne unit with tab you continue to wear it that way.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Dec 13 at 2018 7:57 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 19:57:44 -0500

All to complicated for this Marine.

Response by SSG Joseph VanDyck made Dec 14 at 2018 5:36 AM

SSG Joseph VanDyck — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 05:36:32 -0500

You keep the tab. Think about it, the 101st ABN lost their status before you were born. The tab is still there.

Response by CPT Jeff Robinette made Dec 15 at 2018 8:52 AM

CPT Jeff Robinette — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 08:52:37 -0500

My 1SG in Germany wore a 1st Cav Combat Patch with an Airborne tab. Granted I left Germany in 1983.

Response by COL Rich McKinney made Dec 17 at 2018 7:57 AM

COL Rich McKinney — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 07:57:33 -0500

The combat patch can be looked at as a historical document. It is as it was at the time it occurred, not as it has since become.

Response by MSG Douglas Tolliver made Dec 17 at 2018 11:07 AM

MSG Douglas Tolliver — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 11:07:58 -0500

First, it is not awarded. It is authorized for wear to denote service with that unit in a combat zone. Units "award" the SSI-FWTS for esprit de corps in a ceremony though it is not required by regulation to have a ceremony. Second, you wear it as it was on your left shoulder when you deployed regardless of the current status of the unit. This will not work with the CSIB as some, as is the case with the 1st TSC, have had the tab removed.

Response by SSG James Mills made Dec 17 at 2018 12:10 PM

SSG James Mills — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:10:28 -0500

You wear the the way it was awarded, regardless if it lost it afterwards.

Response by SGT Tony Spencer made Dec 17 at 2018 2:43 PM

SGT Tony Spencer — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 14:43:51 -0500

I had tbe same situation, Leaning Shit house with an Airborne tab, as a combat patch. Anyways, you are actually required to wear your combat patch as it was awarded when ya got it. Any deviation from the way it was awarded is
"unauthorized" and punishable under U.C.M.J. I know its ignorant at times but the rules are the rules. Im guessing in making this rule they were trying to think ahead, ya cant have Joe's changing tbeir Combat patches to suit their liking, or any othet patch for that matter. So as stated above, leave it as you got it Sarge....

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2018 4:41 PM

SN Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 16:41:26 -0500

It might be like in the Navy where you can qualify for your Sub warfare pin, and then go to carrier or another surface ship and still have your qualifications. Don't quote me on it because I've only been in for just shy of 3 months, but that's what my assumption would be

Response by PFC Jesse Stinton made Dec 17 at 2018 5:22 PM

PFC Jesse Stinton — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 17:22:52 -0500

I was in the corps so take what i say with a grain of salt but to me it sounds like you earned that patch at that date in history so it's yours to wear going forward. I'd think think you would keep it but not give it to any btw guys on future deployments

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2018 6:41 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 18:41:02 -0500

The tab stays. You wear the patch as awarded. Now, here's the tricky part. There are units like the 20th Engineer Brigade that have come off status but have subordinates still on it. The HQ/ Staff has come off jump status but the 27th engineer battalion has retained jump status so all of those companies wear the original patch. The others, not jumping do not.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2018 7:43 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 19:43:59 -0500

The answer is no. I deployed with a unit and sometime after we came back we found out that our BDE did not have airborne status. So we had to take it off of our patch and everything else that it was displayed on.