Can a superior force a subordinate to buy a ticket and attend a military unit ball?

CH (MAJ) William Beaver — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 13:04:33 -0400

Your unit is conducting a military ball. The senior leader says she wants 100 percent participation. The event is a formal and tickets are $20 to $40. You are new - brand new to the unit. You are an E-4 and don't have the money to attend until you are paid again. Can a supervisor force a subordinate to buy a ticket, have her dry clean her dress uniform, and attend the ball, and try to have a good time? Would she be treated differently if she respectfully refused?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 1:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 13:08:09 -0400

This is illegal. A superior cannot tell a subordinate to purchase something on their own dime in this instance.

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made Jul 8 at 2015 1:11 PM

SFC Maury Gonzalez — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 13:11:59 -0400

Its illegal and unethical, in my days however many army csm's did that, plus pressuring soldiers to buy and join ncoa and ausa

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 1:17 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 13:17:33 -0400

No.

But we've all seen how this works, with senior leaders essentially establishing incentives for attendance and crating penalties for not attending. Questionable, yes. Illegal, maybe. But it happens.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jul 8 at 2015 1:19 PM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 13:19:55 -0400

CH (MAJ) William Beaver Absolutely not. Those are strictly volunteer type of events and no one in the leadership chain should be forcing anyone to attend. If they chose not to attend it should not be reflected in their day-to-day dealings with leadership if they didn't attend the event. First of all it is a hardship for younger enlisted personnel to afford these events. When I had Brigade and Battalion Balls we tried reduce the cost for lower enlisted personnel. Shouldn't be done period.

RP Members and Connections what are your thoughts in reference to my response?

SGT Leslie C. Erdman, JR SPC Michael Stedman Cody Masiero Cpl Casey Meyer CPT Private RallyPoint Member SPC Mary Hargrove CPL Phillipe Farneti LT Scott O'Shaughnessy, MBA SFC Rick H Sgt Eddie Green D. Cree Crawford SFC Scott Hudnall SFC Private RallyPoint Member SSG Darrin Bovia Sgt James Baxley ] Pmc Mcb SFC Dante Alanis SPC John W. PV2 Tj Scott

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 1:20 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 13:20:25 -0400

When I was junior enlist my Shop's NCOs bought all the junior enlist tickets if they wanted to go, so the only thing we paid for was dry cleaning and whatever drinks I would buy at the function. Granted this is a Senior Leader forcing them to pay for everything in go, but the way I described earlier seems like the right way to go about getting people to go and I practice it still to this day with my Soldier's.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jul 8 at 2015 1:36 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 13:36:46 -0400

Is the supervisor willing to pay for everything including the ticket, dry cleaning and all the fun stuff that goes with attending these events? ;-)

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jul 8 at 2015 1:38 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 13:38:05 -0400

I have seen the pressure, but no, supervision cannot force a subordinate to purchase something for this case. Usually the leadership would want to buy the subordinate tickets themselves.

Response by SFC Eric Stoneburner made Jul 8 at 2015 2:06 PM

SFC Eric Stoneburner — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 14:06:21 -0400

this kind of question has been around for decades. the right answer is NO, you cannot force a subordinate to pay for and attend an event/buy additional gifts/plaques etc. if the leadership is intent on 100% participation then they need to find a way to fund it so the cost is zero, then you can direct your troops to attend a "mandatory" event.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jul 8 at 2015 2:18 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 14:18:19 -0400

Is it allowed? No. Does it happen? All the time. It is far more likely to be "Coercive" than "Direct."

100% Participation is just bad news. Good Leadership will say 100% "Contact."

What will generally happen however is this... Those NOT participating will find themselves on some other form of "mandatory fun" or duty, or assistance, etc, so they are "coerced" (illegally) into just buying the tickets anyways.

Response by Sgt Jerami Ballard made Jul 8 at 2015 2:30 PM

Sgt Jerami Ballard — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 14:30:15 -0400

She can say she wants 100% all she wants, no group or individual in the employment of the federal government can tell you to purchase anything with your own dime. Now shuddering you with duty the weekend of that ball because you didn't buy a ticket is another matter...

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 3:22 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 15:22:22 -0400

Hell No.

Response by Sgt Matt Koeneman made Jul 9 at 2015 5:05 AM

Sgt Matt Koeneman — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 05:05:26 -0400

I refused once, and the only thing they could do was make it my appointed place of duty. That being said I was there for the ceremony and bounced when it was over.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jul 9 at 2015 10:59 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 10:59:32 -0400

No. And I've never seen any leadership "force" junior enlisted to attend. In fact, my experience is that leadership jumps thorugh hoops to make it easy and affordable for junior enlisted to go. Now, among senior NCOs and officers (who CAN afford to attend) it's a little bit different. You are not forced to attend, but your absence will be noted.... ;o)

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 11:01 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 11:01:17 -0400

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jul 9 at 2015 11:04 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 11:04:31 -0400

"No one has to go, but the Col. will be unhappy if the Regiment is not well represented"

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 11:07 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 11:07:17 -0400

We are always forced to go we don't have to buy a ticket but they make the soldiers that don't buy a ticket watch everyone else eat and drink but they make it the soldiers place of duty which is ridiculous..

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Jul 9 at 2015 11:28 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 11:28:15 -0400

Last I knew is NO! The superior can not force a subordinate to buy anything or attend anything that does not pertain directly to work.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 11:22 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 23:22:07 -0400

"Can they" yes. "Should they" no.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 10 at 2015 4:34 AM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 04:34:55 -0400

Luckily I've only been at a few commands that had or participated in the Navy Birthday Ball or a Command Christmas Party. Those commands never tried to make anyone go and in fact did ask for volunteers to stand duty so that those who were working but wanted to go had a chance to attend.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2015 11:02 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2015 23:02:55 -0400

I remember my first ball. It was kind of a unforced forced thing. I was told I would be looked at more favorably if I went because I could make more connections and attending meant I cared about the Army. The next year when the ball came around I said no to it. No way was I gonna get tricked a second time. ;) funny story, I was actually looked at favorably for standing up and saying no while everyone else passively complied.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2015 11:49 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jul 2015 11:49:14 -0400

From the financial aspect of this, it isn't too far removed from all the instances where troops have to use their own POVs to haul equipment or transport troops etc. That happens all the time.. or atleast did when I was active duty. All the time. Not saying it's right, not at all.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 10:58 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 22:58:27 -0500

can anyone cite specific laws being broken if this does happen?

Response by SPC James Anderson made Aug 14 at 2016 4:05 PM

SPC James Anderson — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 16:05:20 -0400

Mandatory fun! This happens a lot in the military. I cant believe all the times higher ups would make mandatory or strongly recommend what lower enlisted should do or attend in their off duty hours.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2016 4:31 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 16:31:14 -0400

No, a superior can not force a subordinate to purchase a ticket. However, the guy who buys the ticket may get to know his PLSG, 1SG, CSM or an officer a little better. This may lead to having more contacts when the soldier needs to find open positions, new assignments or just to get the word out that they are ready to move on. Military balls are to build esprit de corps, unit cohesion, and give a great audience for promotions, awards and presentation, however they are also to network. Networking is not taught in the military as much as it is in the civilian world and in my opinion it is one of the reasons why transitioning is so difficult.

Response by CW3 Matt Hutchason made Aug 14 at 2016 6:16 PM

CW3 Matt Hutchason — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 18:16:55 -0400

ALL Marines attend the Marine Ball annually, duty and other obligations notwithstanding. It's one of those traditions that mean so much to every Marine, they want to go. I was at 10 of them myself, and loved every one of them.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Aug 14 at 2016 7:23 PM

SSG Brian Kresge — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 19:23:09 -0400

I've heard this over the years, and even see events where they want 100% participation. On the rare occasion that one didn't fall on a Friday night and synagogue, I attended with my wife but was kind of grossed out by the dancing.
But even when there's been *strong* emphasis on attending, I've never, ever incurred a negative response by not attending. They know it's an unlawful order, so there can't possibly be a consequence.
You spend so much time with your homies, too. Isn't it cool if we're incurious about their spouses?

Response by Sgt Jamie Grippin made Aug 14 at 2016 8:02 PM

Sgt Jamie Grippin — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:02:15 -0400

You are in the military now, not high school. Highly suggested events happen on the civilian side of the house too. Its all part of the game of life if you want to move ahead. At least in the military you should already have the appropriate uniforms on hand. There will be people who will tell you it's not right and that you don't or shouldn't have to attend these events, but these events are where real networking and decisions take place. You don't want to be a kiss ass but you also don't want to be on the other side of the spectrum either. Go and be seen and enjoy yourself. Who knows what will happen, what opportunities may present themselves. If you want to be successful, get out there and be part of life. Life is what you make of it.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Aug 14 at 2016 8:24 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 20:24:35 -0400

A superior can only "highly advise" in situations like this. What should be done is like events I've been to, is enlisted attend for a greatly reduced price. Explain the situation to your first line leader and leave it at that. If the first line leader is a "leader", then the situation will be handled in an a moral and just way.

Response by CW4 Leonard White made Aug 14 at 2016 9:10 PM

CW4 Leonard White — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 21:10:09 -0400

No, you can't be forced to buy a ticket and/or attend a military ball...but as a unit leader you are expected to attend. I attended the vast majority of "social functions" after I became an SSG/E6 Platoon SGT (my 6th year in). Since I retired at 35 years, that was 24 years of "mandatory fun." Two things, though. One, my wife refused to go to any of the functions so I always when alone (I'm was the one in the Army, not her). Two, I never pressured at of my younger soldiers to attend (SGT/E5 and below). I knew that for a lot of those guy the ticket was an expense that could blow their budget. After I became a warrant officer I'd offer to buy my best younger soldiers tickets if they expressed a desire to go.
If you really feel pressured to go use you're chain of command to articulate why you don't want to attend. Have a good reason, finances, child care or family issues, long made plans that's difficult to cancel. etc. I know that if child care or financing was an issue a lot of my units did their best to help young soldiers with those things.

Response by 1SG Jorge Guzman made Aug 14 at 2016 11:01 PM

1SG Jorge Guzman — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 23:01:54 -0400

I always tell my Soldiers it is not mandatory. And I always tell my seniors "it is not mandatory, it is expected." And leave it at that.

Response by 1SG Jorge Guzman made Aug 14 at 2016 11:10 PM

1SG Jorge Guzman — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 23:10:27 -0400

I can see the change in the culture just having to ask this question about attending a unit formal. 20 years ago, going to a formal was the place to be, even for the lowest ranked PVT. We all wanted to attend. We always pitched in if someone couldn't afford it. That was the place to see your Seniors in the unit get shit faced, and no one would get in trouble because even the MPs were also looking out for us. Nowadays, everyone asks the question if it's mandatory to attend like it's the worst thing in the world. But no, it is not mandatory and I never force anyone to go. Unless I pay for their ticket, then they have no choice ;)

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2016 11:35 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 23:35:01 -0400

No, you can't force somebody to PAY for a ticket to attend a ball. The ball ticket price is usually to cover the cost of the meal. You CAN make attendance mandatory until the colors are posted though. Just put it on the training schedule. The question we should be asking is why aren't people rushing to buy tickets to attend a unit event in the first place? I can remember when there was no arm twisting involved; people WANTED to go to these events. Now, Soldiers seem to think that the Army is "just a job" and they have forgotten the importance of the team building and carrying on of traditions that happens at balls. As far as this being a "hardship" for lower enlisted to buy a ticket, I call bullshit. The ones bitching about the cost of a $25 ball ticket where they have the opportunity for team building and caring on the traditions of the Army, are the same ones going out on that same Friday night and spending $200 at the club, or getting a new tattoo. Remember folks; you joined the Army...the Army din't join you.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 14 at 2016 11:47 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 23:47:07 -0400

The bottom line is you SHOULD WANT TO GO. If you don't you need to consider your long term career options. The Army is a tribe and one things that tribes do is gather together. We have traditions and customs. Unfortunately we also have a lot of young people who think that they are owed something...they have forgotten (if they ever knew) that they were supposed to be serving the nation. The same people who bitch and complain about attending the ball will eventually be the same, fat drunk at the end of the bar at the VFW reliving their glory days. Sickening

Response by LCpl Nicholas Hines made Aug 15 at 2016 12:21 AM

LCpl Nicholas Hines — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 00:21:15 -0400

leaderahip has always and will always do this, why? Because they can, they are the ones who decide on art 15's and court-martial's. Wanna talk to the inspector general? Too bad your SOL because he wants all of his lower enlisted at the ball too as he looks good in front of his high ups. This isn't even worth asking.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Aug 15 at 2016 12:29 AM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 00:29:29 -0400

In ancient history there was an Association of the United States Army (or something like that) Ball every year but only officers and maybe some senior NCO's attended. Nobody else had a a dress uniform to wear and in those days $20-40 was a big deal when most junior enlisted made less than $200 a month and very few intended to reenlist. We were told about it but no effort was made to force anyone to attend. The only thing that we ever pressured people to do was donate at least a dollar to the United Way.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2016 5:30 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 05:30:53 -0400

It is a social event you are expected to go. Those who don't attend to socialize are normally placed on the detail roster to support the event. I mean who doesn't have 20 bucks to go to an event? I'd refer that member to financial planning classes and start to investigate his finances. I like SGT Eisels idea of paying for your subordinates, that's normally what happens.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Aug 15 at 2016 7:42 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 07:42:41 -0400

Only if they want to lose their position.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2016 9:00 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 09:00:48 -0400

A couple of years ago I was unable to attend a dining-in because I didn't have a babysitter as a single parent. So I got tasked to help set up and tear down after works hours until close to midnight. I then had to activate my FCP and didn't get a late work call, but the Soldiers who went got to come in at noon. I was so upset.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2016 10:00 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 10:00:41 -0400

The best balls were the ones that held fun fundraising events throughout the year to subsidize the ticket prices, were totally optional, had buses from the barracks and back all night, and the senior host departed early so people weren't pressured to hang out all night.

Response by CPT Nick Bryan made Aug 15 at 2016 1:59 PM

CPT Nick Bryan — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 13:59:10 -0400

They can't make you go, however, don't be surprised if you find yourself on duty that evening whether it be in direct support of the event (Set-up/Tear-Down crew, parking detail, Van Driver, etc...) or you'll magically be on CQ, BN Staff Duty, BDE Staff Duty etc.... Which wouldn't be retaliation, 1SG has taskings to fill and why should he/she deprive someone who wants to support a unit function so you can sit your butt at home.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Aug 15 at 2016 2:46 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 14:46:17 -0400

I don't believe they can "force" (tricky word) it, but I know some who exercise skillful encouragement to get soldiers to go.

Response by SP6 Robert Luther made Aug 15 at 2016 6:34 PM

SP6 Robert Luther — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:34:00 -0400

If you dont go,,,, guess who gets guard duty. haha

Response by COL Hank Foresman made Aug 15 at 2016 7:42 PM

COL Hank Foresman — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 19:42:31 -0400

No. However that does not mean it won't happen. It has been going on since the beginning of the Army. You could go to the IG, but then again you will pay a huge price. Your call.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2016 8:46 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 20:46:11 -0400

No, it is not a mandatory event no matter what they say. If you have to pay for it it is optional. If they were covering all the expenses, might be a different story.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 4:15 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 04:15:39 -0400

That not a lawful order! If th leaders want 100% attendance then tgey need to pay for it out if their pockets! This is what i did for my company.

Response by MSgt Christopher Schaefer made Aug 16 at 2016 8:41 AM

MSgt Christopher Schaefer — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:41:12 -0400

They cannot force you to buy something that you do not want to buy. That would be like forcing you to buy, say health insurance... oh wait...

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Aug 16 at 2016 8:48 AM

CDR Michael Goldschmidt — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:48:31 -0400

Let's say it's "highly encouraged".

Response by SPC Nate Lamphier made Aug 16 at 2016 9:09 AM

SPC Nate Lamphier — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:09:14 -0400

We were never "forced" to attend but we were reminded about the event at every formation.

We were also given an incentive since our event was always held on a Thursday of the start of a four day weekend. That incentive was that Thursday (IIRC was always some sort of run) you show up for PT you have the rest of the day to go get "ready". So in reality you got a five day weekend.

Also for those who did not attend you had a class A inspection that following week....again, if you did attended the ball you were good.

Response by LTC Robert Parker made Aug 16 at 2016 9:16 AM

LTC Robert Parker — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:16:36 -0400

During my 23 years active duty it was "mandatory" for the officer, but spouses were "highly encouraged" to attend.

Response by LCpl Chad Parson made Aug 16 at 2016 9:40 AM

LCpl Chad Parson — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:40:32 -0400

I think I was always deployed somewhere in the middle of nowhere whenever the Marine Corps Ball/Birthday came around, so we just always had field ceremonies. Trust me, you didn't want to be recognized as the youngest Marine during those as I was my first deployment. Lol. I would have liked to have gone to one of the actual formal ones, but alas, it wasn't to be.

Response by CPL James Bennett made Aug 16 at 2016 9:54 AM

CPL James Bennett — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:54:02 -0400

We had a new BC at my ADA unit in Polk who tried that. Top got a total of all soldiers in Battery and handed it to the BC and told him how much it was going to cost him (the BC) to buy for all. That ended that !

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 10:21 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:21:01 -0400

A superior cannot force a SM to purchase a ticket. They however can incentivise attendance. I.e. you will not be selected for the event detail.

Response by Cpl Les Jordan made Aug 16 at 2016 10:58 AM

Cpl Les Jordan — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:58:00 -0400

I hated dining in events and the Marine Corps ball. Junior Marines were always either free or greatly reduced. In my opinion it is part of being in a unit where teamwork and comraderry are essential. Go and take part and duck out if formal occasions are not your thing. They certainly were not mine and I have only put on a suit once in the las 14 years. It's just important to be part of the unit.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:01 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:01:17 -0400

No....but it happens all the time. A SGM came into my office and said "Your going to the BN Ball". I responded that "SGM I don't think I'll be there." He looked me dead square in the eyes and said again "You ARE going to the BN Ball!". I said "Rgr SGM". After he left I was pretty dead set in really not going but I thought to myself that usually a push like this means they haven't sold a lot of tickets. So I decided to support my BN by actually going.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:11 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:11:30 -0400

Okay, I love all of these "no, no one should be forced to go". True enough, but all of us in the Army more than a few days know there are things that are Not Mandatory/Mandatory (how many officers felt no pressure to participate in Prop Blast or Spur rides, or the like? and mercy to the NCO who doesn't buy a ticket and arrive at an NCO Dining In. When it came to Balls (dining out, winter ball, holiday ball, etc.) my battalion or Brigade generally set a quota of tickets per company, and as 1SG I was expected to sell every one of those tickets, which I did. I never forced anyone, but bribery in the way of time off and late calls (i.e. day of the ball off, following Monday, and not having to come in until 9am on a day of their choosing [excluding a company or BN PT day]) was my method (E-6 and below, PSGs were going. Officer "motivation" I left to the CO). However, more than a few of my fellow 1SG simply forced guys to buy tickets. Is it right? no. Was it done? yes. Is it "legal"? no. Could someone refuse and get out of it? Yes, but no one wants to be that guy. Sucks, but that's how it is. Ask an 82nd guy about AUSA and 82nd Association participation...

Response by SGT Sam Decker made Aug 16 at 2016 11:23 AM

SGT Sam Decker — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:23:24 -0400

The answer is no. Period. Your unit cannot ever tell you how to spend your money when it comes to these kinds of things. They are strictly voluntary. Now, there is a caveat to that; if a ticket is purchased for Soldiers that do not have the funds at no cost to them and no requirement to pay anyone back, then yes, they can be mandated to go. The dry cleaning part is a moot point because your ASU's should always be clean and ready to go.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:27 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:27:25 -0400

Why is this showing up on my news feed when its over a year old?

In my experience, those who chose not to buy a ticket end up on duty in dress uniform anyway. At the last ball I attended this translated to a Lot of empty chairs because soldiers purchased a ticket to get out of duty and then didn't show up. Half my table was empty. To me this is worse in the long run as our Senior Leaders look around at a half empty room. Ive always attended balls; I eat, socialize and leave before the drunk drama happens. Careers are ruined at these events because people can't handle their alcohol. The whole event should be revamped or abolished in favor of a non-alcohol family day or other event

Response by GySgt Carl Rumbolo made Aug 16 at 2016 11:36 AM

GySgt Carl Rumbolo — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:36:02 -0400

Can they..maybe...should they, no it's piss poor leadership

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:59 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:59:41 -0400

I see mostly everyone referencing cost as a factor when declining an event. But, what if the issue is not cost at all? I'm at work from 0530 until 1900 at the earliest, five days a week. Those hours tend to interfere with every aspect of my home life. My family is neglected, my responsibilities at home are neglected, homework goes undone or is done to a substandard level. Not to mention the countless physical aliments that I don't have time to tend to because I'm at work so long. I have the money, but if I dedicate 14-15 hours a day, 79-75 hours a week, why am I expected to attend after hours events, that would keep me "at work" even longer. Mind you, we don't get the day off to prepare for said event. I just won't do it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:59 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:59:52 -0400

No they can't because they tried that when I was at Ft.Campbell,Ky to a few of us but they later backed off they just encouraged us I never bothered attending among a few of us.

Response by SSgt Stephen Mills made Aug 16 at 2016 12:12 PM

SSgt Stephen Mills — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:12:38 -0400

Response by PO1 Robert Closson made Aug 16 at 2016 12:30 PM

PO1 Robert Closson — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:30:40 -0400

This is a touchy subject with me I really can't stand it when the command's twist peoples arms to go to these events. For me if you want to go fine if not there will be no butt hurt here. This sort of thing is about the command leadership looking good and yet they never understand this practice only hurts themselves. At my last command I had a LT who always used the phrase YOU WILL come to the command party YOU WILL come to the command dinner it just drove me up the wall because all my subordinates would come to me pissing moaning and groaning. It was very difficult to sit down with this LT one because he was the OIC of the command and two even when He was wrong He was right he just never understood a lot of these young men and women have lives. I would always attend every function just to shut him up and when he asked where is so and so I would let him know they had family situations to take care of he knew I was lying but could not prove shit.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 12:44 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:44:06 -0400

I have even had brochure handed to me by my rated that said " things your rates won't say to you." It included everything from choice of spouse and children's behavior to how dining-ins/out and hails/farewells are not optional. I'm ready to retire.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Aug 16 at 2016 12:54 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:54:10 -0400

Can they make you go? I bet that they can make you wish you had. Might I suggest that better money management skills? Might I suggest that if you can't afford to pay to have your uniform pressed, that you iron it, unless somehow it's actually dirty, in which case you are behind the eight ball anyway. Ever heard of unit cohesion? Unit integrity? Can you think of a better way to meet just about everyone in your unit? You're in the military, not a customer at Burger King, you can't have it your way.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 1:18 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:18:17 -0400

I think there are two issues at play here. First, and what answers the question simply, a voluntary event is voluntary. Look up the definition of you need to. Secondly, and what is much more important, if your soldiers/airmen/whathaveyou are not interested in attending it may be because they have other matters in which to attend or they just don't want to be around their unit. Rather than coercing or even forcing troops to attend, it would be far more productive an endeavor to learn how to positively encourage and motivate them to attend. Ask yourselves how morale is in the unit and what real issues are at play. I don't know if a study has been done on this, but I'd be willing to bet there's a positive correlation between morale and actual voluntary attendance at unit functions. I think a lot of senior leaders are trying to hang on to what they perceive as the old military culture, but even when you look back, these shenanigans didn't work then either. Take care of your primary mission and take care of your troops. Do this and every other concern will take care of itself.

Response by SGT Brett Caldwell made Aug 16 at 2016 1:19 PM

SGT Brett Caldwell — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:19:45 -0400

You'll be there one way or another.

The events I attended were always a good time; perhaps I just had good leadership.

Hell, the Spur Dinner that was held within weeks of returning from a 15 month deployment (before this was the norm) was epic--so epic that I believe it was banned by the CG for a while afterwards.

Good times.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 1:25 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:25:48 -0400

Nope, cant require attendance

Response by LTC Matthew Robinson made Aug 16 at 2016 1:47 PM

LTC Matthew Robinson — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:47:50 -0400

Such events, mandatory fun, can help build unit cohesion and morale. However, if you require attendance you must do two things, pro-rate the cost by rank and ensure that you design an event that will be pleasant for all. Old codgers such as myself, might need to get used to different music. Also, somehow you must integrate spousal interaction. Younger soldiers are at a different point in their lives, as are their family members. Including all at a reasonable cost is challenging, but if you do it well the results can be quite good. Also, make sure dress requirements, civilian as well as military, do not put younger soldiers into debt for one eve.

Response by Cpl Doug Christiansen made Aug 16 at 2016 1:48 PM

Cpl Doug Christiansen — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:48:29 -0400

Suck it up buttercups: You should be at the ball - This is basic networking 101.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 1:50 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:50:07 -0400

which do you choose, the hard or soft option?

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Aug 16 at 2016 1:51 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:51:34 -0400

If you are asking then I suspect a morale issue in the unit. If the command climate was one where a true team were being forged, attendance wouldn't have to be mandatory. No one would want to miss it if a dance-off occurred between the Gunny and the CWO3. And, the senior enlisted and officer ticket prices would offset the cost for the troops.
Now, on the other hand, ask yourself if are you making things better by bucking the system? Suck it up, buy a ticket and go. You might actually enjoy it.
Or just stay in your room and play video games. Like you did all last weekend.

Response by SGT Deuce Bartlett made Aug 16 at 2016 2:11 PM

SGT Deuce Bartlett — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:11:49 -0400

My CoC allowed me to miss certain functions due to my now ex-wife, whom they did not like very much. If anything, I was awarded for missing events because that meant they didn't have to try and be nice to my ex.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 2:20 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:20:35 -0400

No......you cannot....however you can be a actual leader and get your Platoon SGTs to sponsor two of their most junior ENLISTED. Plus as a First Sergeant and Cdr, do the same for a junior ENLISTED or junior NCO that has a spouse....perhaps the ones that on the fence about FRG participation. Its not hard. That commander is using a poor example that was set for her in her earlier career and couldn't do the Leader Math and encourage her subordinates instead of discouraging them.....where was the First Sergeant in that decision making. No one ever bullied my Soldiers into anything.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 2:31 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:31:53 -0400

No. A smart leader will, however, use attendance of unit events as a gauge of command climate, unit morale, and esprit de corps. Where these things go bad are when subordinate leaders get more concerned about impressing the boss, and try to outdo the other at the subordinate's expense. Add to that the cost of some of these events that get out of control ( again, trying to impress the boss) with no concern for other people's family budgets.

In short, these events can be fun, affordable, and great for a team _IF_ the senior leader sets the expectations and stays engaged. Just like in everything else.

Response by SGT Chris Tilton made Aug 16 at 2016 2:35 PM

SGT Chris Tilton — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:35:43 -0400

When I was at NTC, we had our Army Balls in Vegas. If you didn't go, you were a dumbass.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 2:40 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:40:31 -0400

That's crap. Unless the unit is going to foot the bill, along with any child care needs if so needed, I say no. Hell, I'm sick of being told the FRG is mandatory.

Response by SPC Emil Raab made Aug 16 at 2016 2:40 PM

SPC Emil Raab — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:40:45 -0400

Well I never got "asked" to go to one of those type of unit functions, But I did get to go to a few Hail and farewells. Maybe Aviation units do things differently. I think I would rather pull CQ or Duty driver than go to one of those things. I have heard about some of the nightmarish hazing that happens at them. And I have met some of them out in the ville as well, Put me on Head count!

Response by SFC Anthony Franke made Aug 16 at 2016 2:41 PM

SFC Anthony Franke — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:41:30 -0400

Short answer: No. Long answer, read the comments. Mine are interjected in the many replies to this one.

Response by SrA William Giraldi made Aug 16 at 2016 2:43 PM

SrA William Giraldi — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:43:34 -0400

I never attended any unit functions if they were voluntary (spent just over 11 years in between the Army and Air Force)... I can find more entertaining things to do than to sit in a dress uniform for a long period of time, being somewhere I don't want to be. Believe me, it's not that I don't support the military, God knows I do, but seriously, I just see no purpose in them (wasteful spending of money that can be used for more important things). Call me a non-team player, but one can still enjoy their time in the military as I did, without attending a unit ball.

Response by MSgt Daniel Armstrong made Aug 16 at 2016 2:50 PM

MSgt Daniel Armstrong — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:50:41 -0400

Hey, I remember the days when you could not get a senior endorsement on your enlisted performance report unless you were a NCO club member. And I can't count the times we were forced to be a "rent a crowd" at some voluntary function.

Response by Cpl Kent Mitchell made Aug 16 at 2016 2:56 PM

Cpl Kent Mitchell — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:56:07 -0400

That crap is for officers.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 16 at 2016 3:03 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:03:47 -0400

Yes and no.
If it is a unit function, the commander can put on the training calendar, make it a unit event and rightfully require all in the unit to attend. Pay? NO.
Encourage? YES.
Buy a ticket and participate
Don't buy a ticket and be tasked to support the ball.
Many times I saw units require those not buying a ticket to report for duty at the location at a set time for the official part of the function, but not have to pay for and eat the dinner, participate in the non formal parts.
If a unit commander were so inclined it could be a pay day activities, class A uniform inspection. Members would be inspected as a matter of course though the night as they attended the function on a pay status, non paying members would report at XX:XX for inspection, form up for the awards ceremony, change of command / responsibility / retirement / pre or post deployment commanders speech then be free to depart the unit function.
Almost all the Military Balls I was part of or attended were vaulinitry with only positive encouragement used to gain support.... but bottom line, someone has to do CQ, Staff Duty, MP guard, someone will be assigned as set of and clean up duty, someone designated as the DD with a TMP vehicle...those typically are chosen form the SM that choose not to pay and attend.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 3:12 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:12:33 -0400

I personally hate the Formal Balls. I don't consider them fun. But I realize they're a requirement in the military. Manda-Fun, if you will. As for the issue with dry-cleaning the uniform. That's not an excuse. You're expected to keep your uniform in good repair, presentable, and at the ready. They're issued to the enlisted soldiers for a reason. So expecting them to have them clean, but they can't afford the dry cleaning, doesn't hold water. What if it was their normal Duty Uniform that wasn't clean. You wouldn't accept that excuse. Now, a GOOD unit has a fund that'll help lower enlisted or other soldiers off-set their costs. Every unit that I've been with, the Officers and the Senior NCOs footed most of the bill that wasn't covered by the FRG/Unit fund raisers. The lower ranks might pay five or ten dollars, but that's it.

Response by LT Michael Watson made Aug 16 at 2016 3:15 PM

LT Michael Watson — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:15:36 -0400

"Command performance" is the old call out, and getting stuck with it never seems to be fair, but are there for the "good of the unit". Forced to go, maybe not. Most strongly encouraged, definitely. In the environment of political correctness, it will end up costing less to deal with the short term pain. And this is from one who is still a maverick.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 3:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:18:43 -0400

The military ball is a good test for the moral levels in a unit/company. If the moral is high soldiers will attend regardless of the price for the fun factor and good cohesion, if low, not only will the junior enlisted will refuse to attend, but the Senior NCO's and some officers, mainly Lieutenants may not want to attend the ball either. I personally witness this scenario in many units I served throughout my career. Another good sign of good cohesion at the unit/company level is social media interaction among members of a unit, including the Command teams CDR,1SG. The best unit I was stationed with was in Germany, 512th Maintenance Company Direct Support. This Company has already had one reunion and is in the talks for a second, over two hundred members in contact with each other on Facebook including the former CDR, 1SG, XO, Platoon Leaders and Platoon Sergeants along with all the junior enlisted soldiers sharing personal events and friendship, couldn't get any better. This units work performance during our deployment to Taji Iraq was exceptional, we out-performed the unit we replaced within the first six months of the deployment in 3rd shop repairs overall. We helped start and field a highly productive up-armor program with numerous accolades from many general officer tier level leaders. The Command team always concentrated on positive events, organizational days for those that could attend and positive supportive leadership from our CDR, ISG. The unit Commander was promoted to Major six months hitting ground on the deployment and the 1SG was promoted to SGM later assuming a CSM position and many more motivated soldiers in this unit had gone on to get promoted and positively contribute to the military in training and taking care of soldiers. Many units were on and around Taji, Iraq, and they all knew a few good things, where the PX was, the DFAC locations and who 512th Maintenance Company DS was. This is not bullshit talk here, these soldiers actually did exceed the standards in whatever was asked of them and the moral was through the ceiling. These soldiers exceeded, not because they were always ordered to do this or that, it was because their moral was high and they supported each other and that's everyone in the unit regardless of rank. Take care of the soldier, don't abuse your authority at any level, incorporate positive moral boosters, look at your soldiers and tell them they have done a good job when deserved. The last thing, high moral units/company's are very strong reliable units that achieve many positive goals and set the bar of success for others to follow.

Response by LCpl Tad Cunningham made Aug 16 at 2016 3:35 PM

LCpl Tad Cunningham — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:35:48 -0400

You either pay for the event, work the event, or stand duty.

You will not get out of doing something stupid.

At least not while I was in.

U
Signed the
Motherfucking
Contract

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 3:39 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:39:35 -0400

As someone who's planned many a ball and seen the wheel reinvented so many times that it's hilarious: this is one of the things the Army should have nailed down to a science after 241 years of reinventing things every 18 months. In my scenario a staff monkey would make a single phone call to The Ball Facility and say "300 soldiers, May 10th- 1700-2100, please book it." They say yes, or no, pick another date and give you a price- or, gasp, we, as taxpayers decide to use military funds for a military etiquette/ professional development / training function and make it mandatory. I can't recall The Rule on using unit funds for this but if it's not something the Army believes in enough to fund- why should anyone disagree? Instead we generally adhere to a make it up as we go 12 week process of in progress review meetings where we make sure the correct font is used on all slides, and that everyone is considered when it comes to napkin color. I think we should have formal military events such as balls and they should be mandatory training that is funded and is free to everyone as part of keeping military customs and tradition alive. And if that isn't the purpose of having them- shut it down. Any concerns about funding? How much do we spend on things like the annual press corps dinner?

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 3:50 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:50:25 -0400

No - you can't be forced. However, after 29 years, I am sick of being asked to "sponsor" someone junior to me that can't afford to attend when I realize they have a car twice as nice as mine etc. As with any organization, be it civilian or military, you WILL be asked to participate in events. It's about growing up. PLAN AHEAD! Army 06

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 4:10 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:10:28 -0400

My response to the senior leader ship would be

Response by Sgt Christopher Wenzel made Aug 16 at 2016 4:19 PM

Sgt Christopher Wenzel — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:19:03 -0400

Our MSgt required that we go as it was our "appointed place of duty." I may have not bought a ticket, but I still went. The ticket was always for dinner, not entry.

That being said, why at the very least would someone NOT go. It's an opportunity to party with your Marines and watch Gunny and the SgtMaj get drunk as hell.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 4:38 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:38:25 -0400

Sir,

In my opinion, aside from making from pay for anything which is anyways a nono, The only to get around this is to integrate the military ball into one of the drill days. If they are in the Guard / Reserve unit.

Response by Sgt Daniel V. made Aug 16 at 2016 4:39 PM

Sgt Daniel V. — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:39:30 -0400

How about we start having a financial responsibility course that is mandatory every six months. Make it mandatory for each one of them to buy a bond as an option to not attending.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 4:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:40:47 -0400

Here is how it can work. The commander makes it the place of duty. This way all will attend. No you can not make the soldier pay. If the Unit was smart they raise money from the outside and put it towards the event. We had one in my unit and it came up with a no cost to E-7 and below and $20 for above. it really is a simple deal as you can get donations from all over. Just be honest with your sponsors.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 4:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:44:58 -0400

the information for buying tickets for a ball are usually put out a few months in advanced if your that broke you need to rethink your life But no you cannot be forced to buy a ticket and go

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 4:47 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:47:15 -0400

No, cannot force you to buy a ticket and attend.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 4:48 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:48:29 -0400

Hell no. Go to the IG with that. As Air Force, supervision usually offers to buy the airmen tickets to get them to go.
I call shenanigans!

Response by LTC Robert Mikaloff made Aug 16 at 2016 4:59 PM

LTC Robert Mikaloff — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:59:55 -0400

A good leader would never force participation. The key to success in this is a series of team building events, esprit de corps events building pride and identification of the culture/history of the unit. At Bn we worked to reduce costs for enlisted soldiers including a sliding cost based on rank and fund raising events.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 5:07 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:07:27 -0400

You can't expect 100% participation in an event like this, you can hope for it. At the same time, senior leaders should work together to sponsor folks who are short on funds. Organizations with active FRG and MWR programs should have no trouble generating funds to defray or eliminate the cost for junior folks.

Back to he expectations, there are folks who just don't want to go to the unit party, ball or event. Don't hold it against them, it's their choice. Ask yourself if you're providing the leadership that makes folks want to attend the unit event.

Just a thought.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 5:08 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:08:34 -0400

Force - no. Make one wish he/she had - happens way to often.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 5:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:09:36 -0400

A senior can absolutely enforce the standard that your dress uniform is serviceable and prepared at all times

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 5:10 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:10:21 -0400

They can also send you to some budgeting classes if 20 dollars is breaking you finamcially

Response by SFC Kristina Thoman made Aug 16 at 2016 5:32 PM

SFC Kristina Thoman — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:32:12 -0400

Can they? Should they? No, but it happens..... as just one example, my anniversary is the 15th of June, meaning the Army ball always falls near, or on my anniversary. My husband played nice and went for like 10-12 years, but one year, when the ball fell on our anniversary, he chose not to attend. He said I could go, but he would not. SO I chose not to go so that I could spend my anniversary with my husband. When my 1SG asked if I had my tickets yet I actually was escorted to the BN SGM by my 1SG, so I could "explain my choices, and ask permission not to attend." I was told anniversary or not, if SGM would not give his permission for my choice, I would have to attend, and I could chose to buy a ticket and eat or not.

Response by CDR Terry Boles made Aug 16 at 2016 5:32 PM

CDR Terry Boles — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:32:30 -0400

Good question, of course not. Can't forget my junior enlisted days living payday to payday and making sure the family was taken care of!

Response by CW3 George Fitzgerald made Aug 16 at 2016 5:39 PM

CW3 George Fitzgerald — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:39:56 -0400

A Ball or Dining-Out, no however look at the reason it is being held and where you are in your unit, but I sure as heck wouldn't miss a Dining-in.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 5:54 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:54:02 -0400

When I was a Junior Enlisted Soldier, my CMD team NCO or Officer would purchase the tickets for us to ENSURE 100% participation. While I usually ended up going and having a decent time 2/3 times, I found it ridiculous to call it a volunteer event if they were going to find a way to make everyone attend.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 5:59 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:59:30 -0400

Not right. They can encourage but not make subordinates attend. What we did was encourage and then pay for the enlisted folk that wanted to go.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 6:06 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:06:17 -0400

These functions are important. New Soldiers have no idea how much. But, if your Soldier can't attend because of monetary reasons help them out! It is never good to force them. Explain why it is important. On another note, there are always some that will complain no matter what. Those normally leave the Service after their first term. Good riddance!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 6:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:08:47 -0400

Mandatory fun has been a thing forever. However with dudes dancing with each other and dressing like women, I would probably use sick call to get out of it.

Response by 1SG Nathanial Wood made Aug 16 at 2016 6:16 PM

1SG Nathanial Wood — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:16:30 -0400

As a PSG I have been known to require a Class A inspection on the day of the ball. Your choice, 1300 or during cocktail hour. I would never require a Soldier to pay for the ball, but your A's should be ready 24/7 365. I've found that most Soldiers are willing to go to the ball once I take away the option to not wear their A's

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 6:36 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:36:23 -0400

If you force them to attend then don't bust the PFCs tail when he gets drunk and hits on the CSMs wife. Esprit De Corps means totally different things to a lower enlisted than it does a Field Grade officer.

Response by SSG Curtis Dietrich made Aug 16 at 2016 6:36 PM

SSG Curtis Dietrich — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:36:27 -0400

Don't be ignorant, although they are not forced, you ARE expected to show up. This happened to me time and time again.

Response by CPT Joe Whitfield made Aug 16 at 2016 6:36 PM

CPT Joe Whitfield — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:36:32 -0400

When I was on active duty (AF), our units informal functions for the enlisted for which the officers paid for everything. All we had to do was show up. When I was an officer in the NG/USAR I had a job that required me to be on duty f a 24 hour shift (EMS) I made sure that I had duty that night. I did go to one official function and was bored out of my skull, (and the higher officers were bombed out of theirs) the only reason I went was that it had been decided that NG/USAR officers could not be forced to buy dress blues but could wear Class A's with a white shirt and bow tie.

Response by MSgt Bill Loveli made Aug 16 at 2016 6:54 PM

MSgt Bill Loveli — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:54:35 -0400

Very interesting all this crap the Army has to go through.
Marines take an oath to (among other things) to obey all LEGAL orders from superiors.

Response by LTC Robert Parker made Aug 16 at 2016 7:00 PM

LTC Robert Parker — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:00:34 -0400

The only way out was to volunteer for Staff Duty Officer which sometimes went to the highest bidder !

Response by Cpl Isaac Park made Aug 16 at 2016 7:08 PM

Cpl Isaac Park — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:08:39 -0400

How can't people afford to attend the ball? What, the barracks started charging rent? The base started charging for utilities? The "poor underpaid E4 can't afford the ball" is a weak argument.

Response by Cpl Isaac Park made Aug 16 at 2016 7:11 PM

Cpl Isaac Park — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:11:49 -0400

Well, my unit had Marines who didn't buy a ball ticket attend the ball as ushers and other nonfunstuff. The only way to get out of being an usher was to buy a ticket to the ball. This was perfectly fine, so long as everyone is aptly notified. How full of hate must someone be not to enjoy the ball?

Response by CWO4 George Scruggs made Aug 16 at 2016 7:12 PM

CWO4 George Scruggs — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:12:24 -0400

Now this has been going on forever. I have only seen it in the Officer ranks in the Navy. And Yes, your butt better be there.

Response by SGT Fredrick Mathis made Aug 16 at 2016 7:15 PM

SGT Fredrick Mathis — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:15:10 -0400

The answer is no by regs but as you can see by people on here they feel they can but still think they are wrong I spent 15 years in only got forced to go to one ball as e-4 and below but I got forced to go to everyone after I made SGT that my unit had but like I said according to regs the answer is no

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Aug 16 at 2016 8:28 PM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 20:28:32 -0400

Mandatory fun is no fun, especially if you have to fork over money you don't have for it. A good unit will have sufficient morale and the leadership can make it a great event. Also most uniits have coffee/soda messes or car washes to raisew money to offset costs.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 9:18 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:18:35 -0400

You should want to go. It should be viewed as a privilege. The fact that soldiers don't want to attend shows low moral and espre de corps. NCO's, SNCO's and Officers should lead by example and encourage junior enlisted to attend such events. But at the very least you're in the damn military. Quiet trying to find away to say being ordered to do something is bullshit. mandatory fun is a thing, and will be a thing. Show some god damn unit cohesion, and quit acting like the military is the scouts and you get to pick and choose which rules/orders you have to follow.

Response by SP6 Cajun Ray made Aug 16 at 2016 9:24 PM

SP6 Cajun Ray — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:24:04 -0400

My opinion. If they provide a free ticket, yes. They can call it a training event. As for the uniform prep, it should be ready to put on at any time.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 9:31 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:31:26 -0400

You can't force the solder to buy anything. Technically you can still order to attend for free. Dry cleaning uniform and such is expected, so that will cost money. However, it comes down to soldier care. If you don't take care of your soldiers yiu shouldn't be leading them.

Response by Gigi Pitts made Aug 16 at 2016 9:33 PM

Gigi Pitts — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:33:54 -0400

I don't think anyone should be forced to attend a military ball. The cost of the tickets is in addition to uniform cleaning or the purchase of an evening gown. Whether or not one attends the ball should not be reflective of the superiors' opinion of a subordinate.

Response by SPC William Eckel made Aug 16 at 2016 9:44 PM

SPC William Eckel — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:44:29 -0400

Nothing beat's being volentold......... Glad I'm out now.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Aug 16 at 2016 10:29 PM

SSG Mark Franzen — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 22:29:00 -0400

No he can't he could ask but forcing someone that's just wrong.

Response by SFC Russ Chapman made Aug 16 at 2016 10:29 PM

SFC Russ Chapman — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 22:29:39 -0400

I would say that I have not heard of anyone regretting being forced to go or having a bad time at one of these events

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 10:51 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 22:51:55 -0400

No, you cannot make subordinates purchase tickets to mandatory fun activities. It was encouraged to attend to support esprit de corps in the unit. If money was an issue, and it was cost prohibitive for junior enlisted, the senior NCOs or officers offered to pay for those members who did want to go.

Response by SPC Robb Brown made Aug 16 at 2016 11:14 PM

SPC Robb Brown — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:14:24 -0400

I attended a St. Barbara's Day ball my first year in. I was the newest soldier in the battalion at the time (it was a week or do after I got there). I wasn't forced to go, but I was respectfully asked to attend by my Platoon Sgt, Platoon Leader, and Battery CO. They all made it clear I wasn't bring forced to go, but really pushed the fact they'd like me there as the newest private to the unit; they all wanted thier skydiver to be the junior man and participate in the toast. My section chief offered to pay for my ticket, do I figured "why not." On ye end some drunk SSG took my part of the toast (which really ticked the CO off). Still has a had decent time, got a souvenir stein, and didn't pay for a single drink. That said, I didn't attend another and was never forced to.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:24:32 -0400

I think it should not be forced attendance but if it is, then the entire dinner, to include ceremonies, should be evaluated for how they are conducted. And the results should be reflected on their NCOERs and OERs. For instance, did every NCO remain professional throughout the night? We're the ceremonies rehearsed and performed correctly? We're family members taken care of? Was childcare provided? I've only attended one dinner that was planned professionally and recognized a variety of SMs achievements. The rest were just ego driven drunk fests. So, if the Senior Leaders want them, they shouldn't be afraid to be evaluated for it. Just a thought on the fly.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:26 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:26:22 -0400

Look, worry about the big things to bitch about. The rule was if you don't go you have duty

Response by PO1 Felix Rivera made Aug 16 at 2016 11:30 PM

PO1 Felix Rivera — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:30:21 -0400

The answer is no. But hell why not go? free food and drink, and my old lady wouldn't ming dressing to the nines for the same.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:42 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:42:02 -0400

The cheapest ticket I ever had to buy for the Marine Corps Birthday ball was 80 bucks, so I wouldn't complain about this hypothetical event. You can bitch all you want about how it's inappropriate or unlawful to force subordinates to buy tickets for these events, but you have to buy your own uniforms, don't you? And all that about it being a financial hardship for junior Marines/Soldiers/Sailors is bullshit. The PFC's whining about not being able to afford a ticket could damn well the latest IPHONE, Alienware laptop, the newest Air Jordans, and 4 trips to the VIP room at the strip club. I had more disposable income as a PFC (single, in the barracks, meal card, crappy car paid off) than I did as a Sergeant (wife, 3 kids, SUV, mortgage) And it's not like these events come out of the blue. They're planned months in advance, so even if you somehow have to buy all new uniforms to attend, you can save up. And for those who somehow legitimately can't make it, those events usually come with a long weekend that needs a duty roster filled. As much as everyone bitches and tries to get out of these events, they usually have fun in spite of themselves. Usually when Gunny gets hammered and starts hitting on everyones' wives, or when all the Sergeants conspire to keep buying Sergeant Major shots until he dies.....

Response by COL Charles Williams made Aug 16 at 2016 11:55 PM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:55:03 -0400

No.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 1:54 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 01:54:26 -0400

Honestly no you can't force them to spend their money on a ticket. However if you want them to go you could just assign them to a detail that is handling the ball. If the company leadership instilled a sense of pride in the unit with the soldiers I doubt this question would be brought up.

Response by LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 7:44 AM

LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 07:44:03 -0400

I really dislike Army formals and I am 100% against making soldiers go. But I always go myself and stay as long as required because it is the right thing to do. Paint a smile on and do it. The officers in our unit usually sponsor enlisted folks who can't afford it but want to go. I'd never treat an enlisted guy different who didn't show up because quite frankly, I wouldn't notice. I'm uncomfortable and wishing I was at home watching Pixar movies with my kids.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 8:15 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 08:15:35 -0400

They cannot force them to buy a ticket but that does not mean they cannot force them to attend as part of a working party or just for the ceremony portion of the event.

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Aug 17 at 2016 8:25 AM

MSgt Wayne Morris — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 08:25:51 -0400

In a nutshell, no.

Response by PO3 Adam Finley made Aug 17 at 2016 8:42 AM

PO3 Adam Finley — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 08:42:22 -0400

This in an interesting subject and one we constantly complained about when I was in. I was stationed green side as a corpsman and the CO always wanted 100% attendance at either company or battalion level functions. I will say that many of our mandatory functions and event where paid for by MR funds or the unit if they could find it in the moral budget...sometime even the drinks were paid for (not that often, but both our company and battalion CO liked to drink so quiet often they would pay out of pocket between them and senior leadership). That being said there were certain function, usually the marine corps birthday, every person better show, and with a ticket. Now in my company it was the tradition ton up two tickets and if you didn't have a date for the ball, well take a devil dog who could afford to go. They would push ticket sales pretty early in the year too. To answer the question, is technically wrong, yes. Does it happen and will it continue to happen. ...oh as long as there is senior and junior personal. Semper gumby....yut.

Response by 1stSgt Matt Leland made Aug 17 at 2016 9:05 AM

1stSgt Matt Leland — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 09:05:03 -0400

Sure. It can be a mandatory event i.e. the ceremony but they should not force a Marine,Sailor or Soldier to purchase and stay for the rest of the ball or function.

Response by PO3 Donald Murphy made Aug 17 at 2016 10:10 AM

PO3 Donald Murphy — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:10:33 -0400

All our stuff was free in the Navy. Even drinks. So yeah, we didn't mind being "forced" to attend. Now of course, some of the wives and girlfriends were most definitely **NOT** going to wear the dress they wore to the ball three weeks earlier, so that was an interesting dynamic, but other than that, it was pretty funny. Also interesting was that our command allowed parents to attend. My mother attended one of our balls. She was in town flying to and from a base and stopped off where I was stationed. She joined the wife and I at the ball.

Response by 1SG Tom Conner made Aug 17 at 2016 10:40 AM

1SG Tom Conner — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:40:16 -0400

A commissioned or warrant officer, or a senior non-commissioned officer, yes. Other ranks, no

Response by COL R. Bruce Chisholm made Aug 17 at 2016 10:40 AM

COL R. Bruce Chisholm — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:40:29 -0400

May I offer a different point of view?
There is a cost of doing business, of pursuing one's career-whatever it is, military or civilian.
Early on, as a PFC, 1SG urged all of us to join AUSA. Then it was Army Community service. then Combined Federal Campaign. Then MP Anniversary. Then savings bonds.
My method was to do all of it, do it early and never say a word until asked.
"CPL Chisholm, want to join AUSA?" "Thanks, but I'm a life member."
"2LT C, want to do a savings bond allotment?" "Thanks, I'll up my allotment, here's the form."
CFC-remember whomever is tasked with asking you just wants it to be over: give or not, just spare the asker your opinion on the program.
AER-everyone knows someone who got turned down. The solicitor doesn't need to hear the story.
Military ball/birthday is another. Just go. Don't focus on the cost, focus on the experience.
From a civilian perspective, my sister was asked to join the PTA at the school where she worked so the principal could get a 100% staff participation plaque. She refused and was asked daily to join-for a semester. She called me to see her options. I asked the cost-$2.50 a year. I told her to join that day and quit being a thorn in her boss' side.
You would be surprised at what many of the senior leaders do other than just wake up to make their units miserable.
My sister's principal paid for the coffee fund for the staff for 26 years. Was it too much to support her in something insignificant to my sister but important to her boss?

Response by SSG James Dennis made Aug 17 at 2016 12:04 PM

SSG James Dennis — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:04:40 -0400

Unfortunately, "mandatory" attendance was "highly recommended" while I served. However, several of the unit functions I attended I chose to attend. The "espirit de corps" of the unit was high in all of the units I served in sans one, 1/507th (Basic Airborne Course). I disliked our Bn CSM's leadership ethic of "do as I say, not as I do." He constantly berated his NCOs in front of the students causing much disharmony. I volunteered to replace the Bn staff duty NCO scheduled for that night so I had a "valid" excuse for not attending. As for the SPC who cannot afford to buy the ticket and have her dress uniform dry cleaned, She should approach her chain-of-command and explain her situation to them. If she is met with the hardline "you don't support your unit?" ideology, the Bn Chaplin is an excellent source of support. of course we all know what happens when we try to "buck the system" in out leadership's eyes-never making it to the E-5 board for "various" reasons."

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 12:11 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:11:42 -0400

These events shouldn't be mandatory nor should a senior leader state wanting 100% participation. If a leader states 100% participation means they're not respected enough by subordinates. They truly don't want to be around or willing to volunteer time to support their unit.

Response by SGT Cody Cox made Aug 17 at 2016 12:15 PM

SGT Cody Cox — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:15:08 -0400

You're not forced to go, but you are going. What else are you going to do? Take the money you were going to spend at the bar, and go to the ball. Traditions need to be honored, and respected. It's what sets us apart from civilians. So get the sand out of your clam, get your metals on straight, drink some grog, and have a good time with your brothers and sisters in arms. And for good grief, quit your whining! You joined the military, not an after school club! Do what you're told, when you're told to do it! Right time, right place, right uniform!

Response by SGT Mike Churchill made Aug 17 at 2016 12:26 PM

SGT Mike Churchill — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:26:20 -0400

If it is a unit organizational day which does not cause any out of pocket expense, then yes, they can make you attend. If it is a ball or any other function that you have to purchase tickets for, then no, they can not make you attend. Will you have some minor repercussion from your choice not to go? Possibly for the first day after. Any good first line supervisor would lend the soldier the money until pay day. Especially if the just PCS'd into the unit, because we all know that moving can be expensive even in the army

Response by MAJ Nathan Hale made Aug 17 at 2016 12:35 PM

MAJ Nathan Hale — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:35:20 -0400

It is called "mandatory fun". No, you can't give a subordinate a "direct order" to attend an event like this. However NCOs have a long established history of making "strongly recommended" seem like a direct order. And as a junior officer, saying no to the Bn Commander, can have serious consequences in your career. I knew one guy who got on the bad side of his commander, and his platoon had to do the daily water runs in Iraq where they got hit with IEDs every day. He thumbed his nose at his seniors, and damn near got killed over it. So sure say "no", but every decision has its own consequences.

Listen, these events are not about "having a good time". These events are about esprit-ed-corps. It is about unit cohesion. Prior to actual war, events like this are key. Now that we have had > a decade of war, then this is the opportunity wear your uniform and be proud of your service. For those who haven't deployed, look around and see those who you work with on a regular basis what they have. You may see that "brand new 2LT" with a Silver Star and a Ranger Regiment Scroll on his right sleeve (now he doesn't seem so 2LT). You could see that SSG (who has a habit of getting into trouble) with more combat stripes than the 1SG.

Mandatory fun is part of our culture. It is to easy to think of "yourself" and want to do what you want to do on a Saturday night away from post. Those now-a-days view service more like a job at times than a profession. You don't clock out when you are in the military.

And here is a little hint for the married guys and it doesn't matter rank..... All girls want the Cinderella fantasy. Let her get her hair done, nails done, and a new dress (even if it comes from Walmart). Get dressed up in your uniform, and go arm-in-arm to your Dining Out. Don't make it about "oh the 1SG is making me, so we have to do this crap". Make it about HER. Give her the Cinderella fantasy. Treat her like a "lady". Introduce her to the senior people in the receiving line. Stand up tall, and give those guys/girls respect, and they will in turn treat you with utmost respect IN FRONT OF YOUR WIFE/GIRLFRIEND. All HS girls dream of a Senior Prom where her date is the Prom King. This is the opportunity (about the only one) to relive that experience. If you don't get drunk/stupid, and treat her like a princess, you may just get lucky and need to immediately steam clean your uniform after the party is over......

Response by CW2 Louis Melendez made Aug 17 at 2016 12:37 PM

CW2 Louis Melendez — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:37:03 -0400

When the CoC forces people to attend, usually is because they know that climate across the unit is not the best.

If you foster a positive environment and a lot of people feels comfortable, more than likely you will have a good number of people that are going to attend without using the non-sense order of "100% participation".

It is a shame when CoC's have this mentality...

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 12:52 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 12:52:31 -0400

Our lower enlisted often get huge discounts to go. Local businesses will help sponsor the event and donate money for the younger soldier to go. E6 and above always have to go to show "Unit Cohesion". Although there are often incentives to go, getting out of drill early or getting a day off ECT. each unit is different. We want all the lower enlisted to go so they can see what it is like, but if someone can't afford it even with the discounts but want to go the NCO fund will cover them. If they just do not want to go because they feel its charity or just do not care about going, its never held against them.

Response by SSgt David Nace made Aug 17 at 2016 1:12 PM

SSgt David Nace — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 13:12:23 -0400

These same leaders will be the first to reprimand the young military member if they are unable to pay their bills because of all the added cost. They will also reprimand these members if something bad happens caused by the event itself. Such as, but not limited to, getting into an accident because of drinking, getting a DUI, or getting into an accident because of being too tired. This then ruins the career of that person if they were choosing to make it a career.

While keeping your dress uniform clean and ready for use is your responsibility and should be done consistently. The other costs, such as getting to the event, maybe a hotel room, getting back home, meals at such places, and so on.

A Marine Corps ball would be $150 per ticket, plus you had to pay for a room, plus the ticket for your date, and most other things that are included in the cost of travel. This is because they would always have the ball in a place like Las Vegas. It could break the budget of some people. Especially the young Marines that got excited about being in the gambling capital of the U.S.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 1:20 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 13:20:32 -0400

No. They can order you to attend if the ticket is free or paid for by the unit or leaders though.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Aug 17 at 2016 2:06 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 14:06:48 -0400

No.

Response by PO2 Brian Harringgton made Aug 17 at 2016 2:29 PM

PO2 Brian Harringgton — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 14:29:49 -0400

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO and A FLAT NOOOOOOOOOOOO and anyone who don't agree with me can stick it where it counts NO ONE NOT EVEN THE PRESIDENT CAN FORCE A PERSON TO ATTEND A MILITARY FUNCTION OR MILITARY LIKE FUNCTION UNLESS IT IS PART OF THERE DUTY LIKE IF YOU ARE PART OF THE CATERING STAFF OR IT IS AN OFFICIAL DUTY ASGNMENT in my 20 years in the navy i never attended one military function unless I was asked to help carter the event as a cook in the navy on the east coast most likely on the 3 rd day inport we are hosting a party but the good news is I got eat better that day then all the days thereof but events like the navy ball never

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 2:33 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 14:33:26 -0400

No. You can not be forced to pay your own money. Now if the ball is free. That's a different story.

Response by SSG Steve Finlan made Aug 17 at 2016 3:15 PM

SSG Steve Finlan — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 15:15:14 -0400

What the ... how the ... where are the NCOs on this? What if this SPC actually can't afford it? I've seen this before, and yes, we did mando fun all the time. I have some great pics of the commander flopped over in a wading pool, covered in chocolate syrup... But, if it was a paid event and we had troops who couldn't really cover it, guess what? The NCOs stepped up. Heck, I even had an E5 help me out once, unasked, when I was a Private. As for the clean, pressed uniform, well you'd better get that uniform cleaned, pressed, and dress-right-dress. THAT is an inspectable item. You let your NCOs worry about how your happy a** is going to get to the ball. Got it, Cinderella?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 3:35 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 15:35:15 -0400

There are people that one expects to attend. SFC & up really.
Beyond that...No.

And no you cannot be forced to spend money to attend an event. That would be akin to having to show up to formation, and pay to attend. I've never seen one that was not voluntary, frankly, to attempt to make attendance mandatory would be an embarassment.

A lot of places exerted pressure for people to attend, and I've seen seniors pay for tickets for junior soldiers to keep attendance high, but I personally have never been treated badly because I did not attend a particular event.

I have heard of it happening, so it really depends upon the unit culture, but it 'should not' happen.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 4:20 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:20:15 -0400

You can require attendance for non-paid portions of the event. WRT the Marine Corps Ball, the ceremony is the required event and the dinner/dancing portion is the portion covered by the ticket. Remember, there will always be a need for a working party (sober drivers for unit vans to prevent DUI, set-up and tear-down personnel, etc) and the guy who doesn't buy a ticket is the first guy to get assigned to it. As far as the uniform requirement: the order requires that the most senior uniform owned by the Marine be worn, unless otherwise directed. Even if A Marine does not have Dress Blues, they do have Service Alphas (we check-in to new commands in them). For enlisted members, the clothing allowance is provided to maintain uniform items, so your dry cleaning has already been paid for; it's not my fault that it was spent on beer.

Response by A1C Cesar Baquerizo made Aug 17 at 2016 4:26 PM

A1C Cesar Baquerizo — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:26:37 -0400

The original question says "can". The answer is of course they "can", but is it the right thing to do? Every Soldier, etc. has different financial resources and different personal priorities. If the superior thinks that it's important for all their soldiers to attend, then they should step up and pay for those that can't afford the social or the expense associated with it. What? you don't know what their financial situation is? Then why are you asking them to attend? You will also find that nothing breaks down morale more than being forced to do something (not mission critical) that they can't afford and affects their family. Some of those looking for civilian jobs might want to pick up a book that explains the difference between leaders and bosses.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 4:44 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:44:10 -0400

Definitely can not FORCE soldier to attend. We were actually able to raise enough funds so that all junior enlisted in a brigade sized element were able to attend for free if they wanted to. It takes a little bit of time and dedication to it but it's definitely possible.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 4:57 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:57:01 -0400

I'm much more inclined to actually want to do something if I'm giving the free will to choose. Mandatory fun would be just plain fun if it wasn't mandatory.

Response by PO1 Robert Johnson made Aug 17 at 2016 5:17 PM

PO1 Robert Johnson — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 17:17:18 -0400

Not "No" But "Hell No". A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I was an E-3 aboard a ship about 3 months into a deployment to the Med. We had been at sea for 28 days and were scheduled for a port call in a few days when the CO announced that he had arranged for a family dinner dance at a pretty expensive hotel. Normally this was the port call when family members who could afford it, met their sailors for a few days at the mid-cruise point. It was usually wives of officers and a few senior enlisted who made the trip. The Capt. listed the cost per person depending what was chosen for the main course. A day later, at morning quarters, the division officer announced that the captain said that he expected all hands not on watch to attend, no excuses would be entertained. I was in the duty section so I was safe but many others were not.

Apparently, one of the wives attending was the daughter of someone who knew someone or something like that and at the next port of call, the disbursing officer was on the mess deck issuing refunds and we had a new CO.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Aug 17 at 2016 5:27 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 17:27:45 -0400

The Army must have changed a lot since I left in 2008 if entire units are conducting formal military balls CH (MAJ) William Beaver for all ranks.
Senior leaders or anybody else is not legally authorized to force subordinates to buy tickets to anything. That does not mean that coercion dies not exist; but, it would unconscionable for a "leader" to force a junior enlisted soldier to attend a ball.
Hopefully if a unit planned this type of activity they would prorate tickets so that senior people pay more and junior enlisted can attend for free if they choose to.
Thanks for mentioning me COL Mikel J. Burroughs

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 6:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 18:33:42 -0400

ex·tor·tion
ikˈstôrSH(ə)n/
noun
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

Plain and simple, the answer is no.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 6:58 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 18:58:48 -0400

Here is my opinion for what it's worth. In the Reserves and Guard mind you. Most dining out and balls falls on the drill weekend, you are being paid to go to the Dining Out/ball. You are let go early on the day of Dine Out and usually not required to show up the next day for recovery. If you aren't going to the dining out/ball then you need to either split train the day at the command's convenience, or you need to stand by at the armory doing detail work (being the designated driver to and from the venue would be a good start).

Response by Cpl Michael Burns made Aug 17 at 2016 8:00 PM

Cpl Michael Burns — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 20:00:26 -0400

If they want to force them to go then they should pay the expenses for that service member. The military is a family. Being a leader and being family, if you want someone to do something then you have to ensure they have the tools nessecary for success. That's what being a leader is about. In a perfect world, if morale is high they shouldn't have to be forced. Everyone should want to go, circumstance permitting.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 8:02 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 20:02:19 -0400

Lmao it's a tradition buy the ticket end of story

Response by SrA Cory Pinkston made Aug 17 at 2016 8:15 PM

SrA Cory Pinkston — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 20:15:58 -0400

Being new to the unit is more cause for you to go. An E-4 should be able to swing $20-40 it's called money management. But to answer no thru can't force you but you will stick out and you know what happens to those people

Response by SGT Bryce Bivens made Aug 17 at 2016 8:32 PM

SGT Bryce Bivens — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 20:32:02 -0400

happened all the time when i was in

Response by GySgt Craig Ankney made Aug 17 at 2016 9:17 PM

GySgt Craig Ankney — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 21:17:20 -0400

In the Marine Corps it's your choice. As for the Army, be all you can be! !!!

Response by GySgt Craig Ankney made Aug 17 at 2016 9:22 PM

GySgt Craig Ankney — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 21:22:21 -0400

Hell no!!!

Response by SGT Stephen Croushore made Aug 17 at 2016 9:36 PM

SGT Stephen Croushore — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 21:36:47 -0400

Mandatory fun. One of the reasons I GTFO.

Response by MSG Georgiann Miller made Aug 17 at 2016 10:06 PM

MSG Georgiann Miller — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 22:06:13 -0400

Nothing new here- suck it up and move on. You might even enjoy it AND learn something while attending.

Response by SPC J.R. McCarthy made Aug 18 at 2016 12:00 AM

SPC J.R. McCarthy — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 00:00:51 -0400

The last Ball I went to it was either go in Dress with a bought Ticket and eat and drink, or its be my place of duty and is drive drinks home

Response by SGT David T. made Aug 18 at 2016 7:43 AM

SGT David T. — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 07:43:16 -0400

I have always been opposed to forcing Soldiers to go to these things. If you want them there, open up your wallet and cover the costs. If it is required then the Army or the leader need to cover the costs.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 8:59 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 08:59:27 -0400

This is an interesting topic as my unit is preparing to conduct its BDE ball in a month. The answer to the question is NO. You cannot be forced to attend a function where you have to pay your own money to attend.
On the flip side, I think this is something that people should want to attend. You should have pride in your unit and want to showcase your career (with your pretty uniform). As a young soldier I always loved looking at my NCOs uniforms and wondering how and where and what they did to receive so many ribbons, and I wondered if I would be able to do enough to receive that many in my career. I have always taken pride in myself and the unit that I represent. There is not a lot of situations that you can mingle with the entire unit at an event like this so taking advantage of the chance shows your superiors that you care and that you are proud to represent the unit. I also feel that this gives your superiors a chance to get to know a little more about you and you more about them.
In the even in question about the young soldier not being able to afford a ticket to the ball, this could be a sign of money issues and may be something that needs to be looked into. Again not saying this to say they can and will pay but if they can’t afford $20-40 dollar ticket there might be an issue that some financial counseling may benefit.

Response by SFC Terry Murphy made Aug 18 at 2016 9:04 AM

SFC Terry Murphy — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:04:41 -0400

I remember those functions, but almost everyone wanted to attend in a good unit. What always pissed me off was the ACR, AUSA, and the one where you could pick from dozens of charities and have the money taken from your paycheck every month. You didn't have to give, but there is a detail Friday afternoon for those that didn't!

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 9:22 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:22:11 -0400

We just had an incident just like this at my unit. Half of our Company did not want to attend the unit Ball either due to money issues, or the fact that it was being held at a casino and some soldiers admitted to having gambling and drinking problems. We were told flat out by our 1st Sgt, that if we did not attend we could forget about any 4-day passes or leave being signed.
Unit moral was already low due to our leadership generally being interested only in their own careers and not the lives of our men. Now we are being forced to participate in Mandatory Fun to show unit morale? It was so sad of a concept that most of us could just laugh. I stood my ground and did not attend, but many of the young impressionable soldiers felt obligated to go so as not to sabatoge their futures in the unit. This is why my unit currently has a 95% ETS rate and 5% PCS rate. Who would want to stay?

Response by 1SG Thomas Sewick made Aug 18 at 2016 9:24 AM

1SG Thomas Sewick — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:24:16 -0400

He can't force you to attend the function and if it dealt with money as a problem as Senior NCO's we would sponsor junior enlisted so they could go. It would be great to have 100% it helps build cohesive relationships. It should never be held against the soldier either. Oh by the way we even set up child care also to help out

Response by PO2 Jason Wulff made Aug 18 at 2016 9:36 AM

PO2 Jason Wulff — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:36:47 -0400

My chief tried this one when I was an E-5. I had no real interest in attending. I told him if he paid for my ticket I would go, otherwise there is no regulation as to how I had to spend my paycheck. I did agree to take someone's duty night so that they could attend.

Response by CSM Bill Roy made Aug 18 at 2016 10:55 AM

CSM Bill Roy — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:55:01 -0400

No doubt would face some weath

Response by CSM Bill Roy made Aug 18 at 2016 10:55 AM

CSM Bill Roy — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 10:55:26 -0400

no doubt would face some wrath

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 11:39 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:39:45 -0400

Well, your dress uniform is expected to be ready to be worn all the time so you really cant use that as an excuse. That said, they cannot require you to purchase a ticket to go. However, if they give you a ticket they certainly can require attendance.

Response by SSG Charlie Beebe made Aug 18 at 2016 12:24 PM

SSG Charlie Beebe — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 12:24:17 -0400

Never heard of an E4 Specialist being forced to a ball, a Corporal yes. Been there and done that

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Aug 18 at 2016 1:40 PM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:40:48 -0400

I never attended any of those types of things. Had no desire to. And if somebody had tried to force me, I would have said "No!" You cannot be forced to pay money for a social function. Oh and if a superior comes around telling you to buy something for their kid's whatever group. Point out that it is illegal to do that.

Response by SSG Andres Guarnizo made Aug 18 at 2016 1:58 PM

SSG Andres Guarnizo — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:58:07 -0400

If you have to force a subordinate to go, then you may want to look into the leadership culture in your unit. If the subordinate cannot afford to go, but would like to, then I'm sure those great NCOs will find a way to help out their soldier. The military ball has always carried a sense of tradition, but with how I see the military now, not much of that exists like before. No one should ever be forced to attend, they should want to attend.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 3:36 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:36:35 -0400

No.

If you care so little about your troops that you force them to spend an awkward evening with people they see on a daily basis instead of, I don't know, spend a nice time with their family then you do not deserve to be a Senior Leader. Hell, you AREN'T a Senior Leader at that point, you are an asshole.

Response by LT Michael Watson made Aug 18 at 2016 3:44 PM

LT Michael Watson — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:44:49 -0400

Having read many of the comments, and having reflected back upon when as a junior officer who was not accompanied at the time, I can see how these events can be uncomfortable and unpleasant. For a young enlisted person, it can be even more so as there are so many obligations and courtesies to be acted upon and the confidence is not there. Cost should never be a constraining factor, and non-participation should not be an influencer on evaluation, though it could be an indicator. Yes, it shows comraderie and honors the traditions, but the pride taken in honoring those traditions has to be earned.

Sad part is, out in the civilian world there are very similar "command performances" and they are very much a part of the team fabric.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 3:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:56:44 -0400

nothing mandatory should cost the soldier anything but time. Events like formals, dining-in/out, etc. It should only be made mandatory if it is at no monetary cost to the individual. That being said, if a soldier goes to a ball, and it is free, but he is "encouraged" to wear non-standard uniform items, such as a Cavalry hat, full-size medals, etc., then he/she may shell out some money to purchase these items. I have never been forced to attend something that I had to pay for. BUT.....events like that are made to instill Espirit de corps and recognize certain individuals, so there are times when one should seriously consider attending, even if it costs you a little out-of-pocket.

Response by MSG Michael McEleney made Aug 18 at 2016 5:01 PM

MSG Michael McEleney — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:01:58 -0400

While it may be "Only $20", that doesn't count for uniform dry cleaning (both before and after), laundry, baby sitting if you have kids, a cab if there is alcohol served. If you want 100% participation, take the cost out of unit funds.

Response by Sgt Steven Layer made Aug 18 at 2016 5:49 PM

Sgt Steven Layer — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:49:17 -0400

Nope. Can't force you to attend. Can force you to be on duty for the ball though, so be weary when pissing off command.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 5:54 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:54:45 -0400

Femals and their drama. Just go its your b-day too! Ask someone for $40 usd and pay them back once is pay day. My ball is $80

Response by PO1 Terese Duffy made Aug 18 at 2016 5:58 PM

PO1 Terese Duffy — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:58:59 -0400

The ones that put these together have no clue nor do they really care whether or not one of their members maybe struggling fanatically. Even if you gave them the ticket(s) for free there still is a substantial cost for some to going to these functions beyond just the cost of the tickets and making sure that you and your uniform is squared away.

What if they are married? Because they are always a "formal function" now there is the cost of a spouses ticket and attire. Lets face it, most of us don't have that kind of attire just hanging in the closet ready to go. Whether it is a suit, tie, dress shirt, belt shoes, socks and accessories or a formal gown with shoes, bag, nylons and accessories there is the visit to the barber or hair salon even if they do their own nails and make up this is way out of most of our junior and some senior enlisted budgets. For those who are higher your pay grade the better your spouse is suppose to look so the cost just keeps going up. If they have children or a single parent or a caregiver of a disabled parent? Now you have the cost of hiring someone to be with them.

There are transportation cost that can include tolls that eats into the gas and vehicle maintenance budget. That guy that rides his bike in every day may not be just a health nut but does it to make sure there is enough food on the table, cloths on his kids backs or diapers on their butt. Maybe they are trying to save up to go home on Christmas leave and have to travel from one coast to the other or beyond. Maybe they send everything but just a few bucks home to take care of their family.

As far as will she be treated differently. You bet she will! I could go on and on about that but this is already to long.

Response by MAJ Rob Kiser made Aug 18 at 2016 6:27 PM

MAJ Rob Kiser — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:27:20 -0400

The answer is "no." My policy for ANY unit function was always "If you don't want to attend, then don't come. We're about to have some serious fun and I don't need you bringing us down." Everyone was always welcome and we did everything we could to mitigate costs for those who couldn't afford to contribute.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 6:37 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:37:27 -0400

I don't think they should be able to tell you what to do on your own time

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 6:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 18:45:39 -0400

IF YOU DONT BUY A TICKET YOU ARE WORKING THE BALL! HAPPENS EVERY DAM TIME. I JUST LEFT GARBAGE 25TH ID, WE HAD OUR BALL, I DIDNT BUY A TICKET BECAUSE 1. THEY WERE 80 A PIECE FOR E5s 2 I HAD A 4 MONTH OLD AND A 5 YEAR OLD WITH NO BABY SITTER AND NOT BRINGING A BABY TO A BALL, AND GUESS WHAT I ENDED UP ON BALL DETAIL. REASON 36 WHY I AM CHOOSING TO NEVER RE-ENLIST NOR ENCOURAGE ANYBODY ELSE TO RE-ENLIST. 3 YEARS AGO YES ABSOLUTELY BUT THIS IS A DIFFERENT ARMY NOW. CHAIN OF COMMANDS AREN'T WHAT THEY USED TO BE. JUST LOOKING OUT FOR THEMSELVES, OERS AND NCOERS... SINCERELY STILL ONE PISSED OFF SERGEANT. :-P

Response by SFC Richard Caroll made Aug 18 at 2016 7:15 PM

SFC Richard Caroll — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 19:15:29 -0400

No, it is a violation of the UCMJ.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 7:15 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 19:15:47 -0400

It's funny how these soldiers claim to not have money for military balls but they are driving around in brand new cars and stuff. It's crazy...

Response by 1SG Larry Morgan made Aug 18 at 2016 9:01 PM

1SG Larry Morgan — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 21:01:31 -0400

Poor leaders force subordinates to attend these functions, good leaders have subordinates that already feel like they are part of the team and want to go because they see it as their unit and their function, it really is that simple

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Aug 18 at 2016 9:11 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 21:11:30 -0400

The Leadership Always Want 100% At These Events. Most Command's Have The Ticket's By Rank. As Well As Asking For Leader Ship To Sell If They Have Any Troop's That Do Not Have The Funds. The Good N.C.O'S Help Pay For The Ticket's For Their Troop's. Give Them The Option Of Pulling Some Kind Of Duty That Does Not Put Them On The Spot. I My Self Have Bought The Dress Shirt's And Tie's As Well As Their Ticket's. I Have Always Thought This Was One Way To Show The Troop's When They Become Leader's They Need To Take Care Of Their Solders, Not Like Some N.C.O's'And Officer's That Are All About Them Self's.

Response by SSgt Brian Chapman made Aug 18 at 2016 9:14 PM

SSgt Brian Chapman — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 21:14:47 -0400

When I was stationed at Minot AFB we had a commander that nobody liked When a squadron big wig came to visit he always had a get together to impress the visitor. Attendance was poor so he made them into our monthly commanders call. We called them mandatory parties. He always ran them from 1700-1900. Everybody stood around checking their watches and when the time arrived, we left. Not too obvious. Any CC that does that to their people deserves what ever they get.

Response by SFC John Giersdorf made Aug 18 at 2016 9:33 PM

SFC John Giersdorf — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 21:33:59 -0400

Technically and legally they can't. What they would use instead is "you're not a team player" or "you don't support the command" or "you're not loyal" and hold it against you as far as schools, promotion boards and TDY opportunities go. It's tough; there's legal avenues if you decline to go and people start being turds, but the legal routes have their own downsides (like attracting all of the command's attention). However, if you're a good troop (in general) give it time, the unit screw up(s) will re-attain the command's attention and take the heat off you, and ultimately, the command will change out over time.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 9:51 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 21:51:48 -0400

No!
As a Brigade CSM, my COL and I pay for four E-4 & below with spouse. Our BN CDRs & CSMs do the same for two. We sit them up front so they can see, get them involved and make sure they have a good time. Trust me; the word will get out on what a good time the had and attendance goes up.

Response by MSG Franklin Mclelland made Aug 18 at 2016 9:53 PM

MSG Franklin Mclelland — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 21:53:30 -0400

In 26 1/2yrs in the military, I never attended the first ball. In the infantry we had company or battalion BBQs, with the families invited. Playing games and having fun. Those few units that did have balls, they were never mandatory and even as a senior NCO, I did not attend. I felt no need and never forced anyone to go, but I did pay for those that wanted to go, but were short on cash.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 9:54 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 21:54:54 -0400

Of course not. Leadership should also be doing everything possible to make these events free or nearly free for jr ranks. It's commonly stressed in units that participation is highly encouraged - but better to encourage attendance with the advertisement of fun events, prize giveaways and the like. Make folks not want to miss it vs forcing.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 10:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 22:09:56 -0400

Definitely should not be forcing subordinates to go to any kind of function like this. Does it happen? Yes. Should it happen? No. I will however say that I have been able to attend a military ball with my previous unit, and actually ended up enjoying myself. Instead of telling the soldiers to go, the leadership should describe the events and their own experiences so that the soldiers don't see this as a mandatory fun event.
On another note, if that soldier is an E4 he/she is making decent money at this point. If $20-40 is that difficult to come by the first line needs to be checking in on what that soldier is doing with their money.

Response by SPC Mohammed Shaker made Aug 18 at 2016 10:13 PM

SPC Mohammed Shaker — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 22:13:46 -0400

Absolutely not. They have and always will be voluntary. A good leader would help the new soldiers come if they wish to, and that is it. Forced fun is no fun. And new soldiers really usually have better things they want to be doing anyways. Perhaps market the event better for people to join rather than force it.

Response by SSG Timothy Yelland made Aug 18 at 2016 10:50 PM

SSG Timothy Yelland — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 22:50:34 -0400

I have never been forced to attend a military ball however i've been told it would behoove me to attend

Response by Kevin Cooper made Aug 18 at 2016 11:02 PM

Kevin Cooper — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:02:49 -0400

No way. Committed as one can be, why would a competent superior even ask. Maybe they should pay? That would be a great leadership gesture.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 11:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:19:01 -0400

When I was at Fort Benning years ago I arrived in advance of the Army Medical Department Ball. I wanted to attend and was ready to shell out the $20 fee. However, the Department Head a Major and Medical Doctor Purchased Tickets for the entire Enlisted Staff for his Department. Which I thought was a nice thing to do. We also had a Hospital Sergeant Major who encouraged NCO's and Lower enlisted to attend. He emphasized tradition and how it was our duty as NCO's to encourage Tradition to the Lower Enlisted. If someone really wanted to attend the Ball we found away to help them out. After all isn't that what soldiers do for one another?
A lot of the wife's of the lower enlisted wanted to attend the event.
The Command did not force anyone to attend and lets face it being a Hospital 100 percent participation was not going to happen. Yet, those who wanted to attend with their husband wife or boyfriend, girlfriend. Who wanted to be with their loved one dressed in all their Military Finery it was a special and memorable occasion.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 11:19 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:19:19 -0400

All the commands I have been at it is optional.

Response by LtCol Dennis Ivan made Aug 18 at 2016 11:53 PM

LtCol Dennis Ivan — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:53:00 -0400

Yes and no.

They can make the ball or whatever a mandatory place of duty which you must attend until the official part of the event is over.
Caveats:
1. They cannot make you buy a ticket to the event
2. They must make appropriate accommodations for those that choose not to buy a ticket (ie seating etc)
3. If it's off base they must provide a transportation for those attending but not buying tickets (to and from)
4. They can prescribe a uniform, but it must be one you are normally required to maintain

Response by COL Louis Jordan made Aug 18 at 2016 11:59 PM

COL Louis Jordan — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 23:59:16 -0400

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 12:00 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 00:00:17 -0400

I would of gone but only if I could go in drag. it's the New Army you know.

Response by Capt Chris McVeigh made Aug 19 at 2016 12:04 AM

Capt Chris McVeigh — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 00:04:23 -0400

I don't know how Army balls function as far as ceremony so I'll speak to the Marine Corps. The actual ceremony portion can be made mandatory but not the purchase of a ticket or attendance at the dinner/reception.There is a very strict distinction between the two portions of the ball.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 12:04 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 00:04:50 -0400

http://www.knox.army.mil/garrison/supportoffices/sja/docs/papers/adminlaw/Military_Ball.pdf
Link is for DoD... Applies to all! (look at c. Specific Issues (2))

Soldiers can be required to attend the official portion only. This is normally the part where the guest speaker does his or her thing. But, the Soldier can not be required to buy a ticket. Normally the official portion is short. Once the unofficial parts start the Soldier should be free to leave.

My issue with these types of events is that they are planned in a vacuum and approved by those who make or close to making six-figure annual pay. The venue for the current year always has to be better then the year before. Or when new leadership takes over, they want to out-do the previous command team. No one on the planning committee wants to speak up for the troops, who come from all walks of life, and don't all have the same finance obligations as the troops to the right or left. Doing so might affect the outcome on their OER or NCOER. Don't give my troops that B.S. either about it's either go or you will be on detail. Or the crap about it's been on the long-range training calendar as well. Because if you, on the committee or command team were so squared away, you would already had the detail crew identified long before the final sales of ball tickets. If you are having to force your Soldiers to do this, then you might want to check your leadership style and command climate.

Now, my experiences with Balls and other Unit activities alike... I always have a great time. Even when I was a private all the way up to senior enlisted. This is a great opportunity to see a different side of you leadership. If you are married, it is also a great opportunity for your spouse to meet other spouses and enjoy a more laid back atmosphere outside the FRG. The price might be expensive, but the experiences are priceless. But, I would never allow my troops to be bullied into attending the unofficial part of it.

Response by SSG Ray Petersen made Aug 19 at 2016 12:10 AM

SSG Ray Petersen — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 00:10:42 -0400

No they can not force it.... usually for the higher ups it is more of a "I behoove you to go" but for a PVT, PFC, SPC, SGT that doesn't want to go they don't have to go. As someone who is looking to be a NCO/Officer (through attending OCS) if someone wants to go but can't afford it, I will pay for them, if they don't want to go and say "No I do not wish to attend" I would say ok and move on. Some people enjoy their time away from their unit/section, you see these people day in and day out, sometimes you just need a little space.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 12:11 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 00:11:23 -0400

Typically E-4 and below shouldn't have to pay. No, they really can't make you go, but it's good visibility, you should go. Yes you serve a mission in the military, but that mission is still made up of people, and you still have to play the game if you want to win. Go to the ball. If you can't pony up the cash someone will spot you $20.

Response by SSgt Harvey Hawkins made Aug 19 at 2016 12:27 AM

SSgt Harvey Hawkins — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 00:27:45 -0400

While I was active duty, I never had this situation come up. But after my enlistment, I went reserve for 4 years and it came up once. And even then it wasn't "required", but highly encouraged. It was a kind of reserve versus national guard kind of thing, and the CO encouraged all of his personnel to attend. Because of the situation I told all of my reservists that if they wanted to attend, I would buy the tickets and do what I could to help with the uniforms. I did some reaching out to some other units and we got a LOT of donations. You would be surprised to see the inter-service support we got. We were in Milwaukee and had reservist folks from as far away as Georgia to Utah that donated their uniforms to my folks so that all they had to pay for was the alterations, just so they could attend and show their pride in their service.

We pulled together and made sure every man and woman was clean cut and sharp, even for a weekend warrior. We had a 97% turnout for the ball and I am proud to say I was NOT the sharpest one there.

So, in response, no they can't "force" anyone to attend. But behind closed doors, they DO keep track on who does and doesn't attend and from personal experience when you don't do what they want they DO keep a little black book.

Response by SSG Darrow Dayton made Aug 19 at 2016 4:12 AM

SSG Darrow Dayton — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 04:12:17 -0400

Can't force them if they have to pay.. I once paid for a Soldier to attend a ball and told him that was his place of duty, uniform is Class A's, bought him a white shirt and loaned him a bow tie. It does say a lot if a subordinate does make an effort to participate in military traditions, which brings me to wonder why seniors never tried to "sell it" as a event that's a part of military tradition? They might get happier participants and perhaps sell tickets faster if encouraged and not forced.

Response by MAJ Gary Davis made Aug 19 at 2016 7:09 AM

MAJ Gary Davis — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:09:55 -0400

I was in charge of Military Formals several times at Company level. There was no charge to the attendees for dinner, except at a Cash Bar. Attendance was "voluntary" for all, except that anybody in a Leadership Position was expected to attend. I held fundraisers for several months before each of the events to help pay for the dinner and for the wine used during toasting (nobody had to pay for that wine - it considered a part of the dinner). The rest of the expenses were taken from the Unit Morale Fund.

I attended many Military Formals at Battalion level, and a few at Brigade and Division level. Every single one of those required buying a ticket for your meal. Any drink besides water or tea required payment in cash. Attendance for anybody in a Leadership Position was required. Your absence from such an event required explanation to superiors.

All of that being said, attendance at such events has always been a part of US Army History and Tradition. But, making attendance mandatory for EM and/or people having financial problems is not a good policy to emplace or enforce.

Response by Sgt Steven Potts made Aug 19 at 2016 7:17 AM

Sgt Steven Potts — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:17:23 -0400

A superior cant force a surbordinate to attend the ball if there is a ticket price. However they usually find ways to get around it. Such as forcing surbordinate sti attend the ceremony only, which they don't have to pay for. Another thing I've seen before is making it so terrible not to attend that you just pay anyways. For instance forcing those who don't pay to be part setup and tear down working parties, being a designated driver for the unit using duty vans. Bottom line is this pick your battles, yea it may suck having to dry clean your uniform and pay for a ticket. But do you really want to bump heads over 100 dollars.

Response by MSgt Kolby Turpin made Aug 19 at 2016 8:54 AM

MSgt Kolby Turpin — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 08:54:46 -0400

No.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 9:20 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:20:40 -0400

No your leadership can't force you to go. They can highly encourage you to but not force you. They can also task you out to work at the ball if you are not attending it, or swap you with someone on duty that has a ticket and wants to go

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 9:23 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:23:06 -0400

Now here's the thing some aren't considering, if the Soldier is arng, it doesnt specify whether its an active duty unit. Maybe they are counting the ball as a muta so soldier is being paid for attending event and the ticket price is for a guest to attend with you. It doesn't say the ticket is for the service member, it's just saying they're 20-40 and the Soldier can't afford it. Your Asu's should always be ready for inspection, so that isn't an issue. And she should talk to her team leader, explain that she doesn't have the money, and leadership can find a way to cover the ticket. I've done it for my Soldiers before.

Response by COL Jeff Williams made Aug 19 at 2016 9:54 AM

COL Jeff Williams — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:54:24 -0400

Hell, that is the program I came in on as a 2LT. You will join the oclub, you will be there for every unit function and you will have fun. Now I don't know what an E4 makes now, but is certainly is enough to afford a $40 ticket. These functions were not every week

Response by MAJ Will Sullivan made Aug 19 at 2016 10:15 AM

MAJ Will Sullivan — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 10:15:23 -0400

Legally no. If the service member doesn't have the money then (he or she) should tell their supervisor the reason they are unable to attend. Being prior enlisted I have experienced the pressure of attending these events. Sometimes it would have to be an adversarial conversation between myself and rater/senior rater stating they cant make me go. Leaders want to support the chain of command and by placing undue influence on subordinate members to attend they potentially are placing them at risk of falling behind on bills etc. On the flip side, I have witnessed where leaders would pay for the subordinates way if they were unable to afford it. There are some leaders who will go beyond (good and bad) what is required to get service members to attend these type of events.

Response by PO1 Lawrence Lewis made Aug 19 at 2016 10:30 AM

PO1 Lawrence Lewis — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 10:30:41 -0400

Thank goodness we were never forced to attend the Navy Ball.

Response by SSgt Juan Davila made Aug 19 at 2016 10:41 AM

SSgt Juan Davila — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 10:41:49 -0400

HAHA I can't believe people are whining about this!!

Response by SFC John McGill made Aug 19 at 2016 10:47 AM

SFC John McGill — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 10:47:37 -0400

Hell no

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Aug 19 at 2016 11:06 AM

CW4 Angel C. — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:06:14 -0400

Short answer: no way. However, you can be forced to attend I guess. The money is usually for the food. I went to one I refused to pay $40 for a plate and just drank beer from the bar while everyone was eating their $40 plates. Officers and Senior NCOs are usually required or highly encouraged to attend.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 11:46 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:46:59 -0400

NO.

Response by MSG Clark Shumway made Aug 19 at 2016 11:48 AM

MSG Clark Shumway — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:48:06 -0400

NO! The only military ball that you can be ordered to attend is the Military Ball in Washington D.C. A CSM tried to get all the enlisted to attend the Army Birthday ball by requiring them to go. An E-6 shot him down. He wasn't very well respected anyway for a CSM.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 12:22 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 12:22:20 -0400

Why would her dress uniform not already be dry cleaned and ready at all times?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 12:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 12:51:50 -0400

Just go man this is how you build commradre is it really gonna bother you that much to eat a fancy dinner and get in your dress bikes

Response by Cpl Austin Hubbard made Aug 19 at 2016 12:52 PM

Cpl Austin Hubbard — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 12:52:31 -0400

Wow can they do this to me Lmao

Response by LCpl Vincent Carter made Aug 19 at 2016 1:05 PM

LCpl Vincent Carter — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 13:05:00 -0400

no a supervisor can't force a subordinate to attend a ball

Response by PO1 Michael Bruner made Aug 19 at 2016 1:21 PM

PO1 Michael Bruner — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 13:21:11 -0400

No, that is NOT a lawful order. THAT SAID: I used to serve at alot of joint ops sites w/ other services (especially the Marine Corps), and I've seen how not going to the Marine Corps Balls affected Marines' careers.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 1:29 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 13:29:46 -0400

I think the subordinates should be encouraged to go, but not forced or coerced. No one likes rule by an iron fist, yet at the same time if you're an E-4 how bad could it be to dish out $20 or $40 even to go and enjoy yourself. If it's just a matter of money then that certainly isn't enough to break the bank unless you're a very frivolous spender.

Response by CW4 Larry Curtis made Aug 19 at 2016 2:04 PM

CW4 Larry Curtis — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:04:03 -0400

These sorts of things have been a bone of contention since forever. Mandatory fun can be anything but fun. However, during MY career there was a common expression used by all which states, "Play the game." I will probably catch some flack for saying this, but this is where senior leadership up the chain comes in. Using your example of an E-4 who is new to the unit, somewhere up the chain someone should be prepared to assist in some way, be it an outright loan, or taking up a collection from among the others to assist the young trooper in his/her shortfall of funds to attend an officially-sanctioned function. I have served under commanders who were big into "official functions" like this. One unit I was assigned to alternated between "Dining In" and "Dining Out" functions about every two months, and you were EXPECTED to be in attendance. Of course THESE functions only involved the officers in the unit for the most part. Company First Sergeants and Battalion Sergeants Major were usually invited as a courtesy, and the majority of the time they were in attendance. But a "Ball" which involves everyone of all ranks within a unit are usually pretty few and far-between by comparison, and insuring the junior grades are able to comply with their attendance should be a function of their leadership under the auspices of "taking care of the troops." That's my opinion anyhow...and I was never above helping-out my troops when they needed it. In fact, it was a priority for me as their leader, and if I was not able to do it myself I found other ways of getting it done.

Response by Sgt Cameron Michael made Aug 19 at 2016 2:38 PM

Sgt Cameron Michael — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:38:36 -0400

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member - Out of the 5 Birthday Balls I was "volunteered" to to attend and the 2 Mess Nights the cheapest anyone had to pay was 60 dollars not to mention Gas money and rooms. Sometimes, the thing that always got to me was having to pay for it myself or having the brand new Privates pay, especially when it was in Vegas and we had to drive from the Pendleton or the Stumps and pay for a room in Law Vegas one of the most expensive city's in the US. Yeah the battalion had bought rooms for those who wanted to reimburse for a "cheaper" room that was still 70 bucks and it was the crappiest hotel on the strip with the worst rooms.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 2:41 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:41:13 -0400

Any leader that makes a subordinate attend, then that leader should be punished.

Response by Maj Daniel Rubadue made Aug 19 at 2016 3:14 PM

Maj Daniel Rubadue — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:14:54 -0400

the answer should be no, but real world can be a butch. USMC Mustang

Response by LTC Scott Warner made Aug 19 at 2016 3:26 PM

LTC Scott Warner — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:26:58 -0400

No. Nothing wrong with encouraging in an unbiased manner to support unit pride/cohesion, professional and social development in a military venue.
The implication of Negative retribution for not attending should never be part of the equation.
Never saw it happen.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 3:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:53:33 -0400

Attached document is from Ft. Knox JAG pertaining to Military Balls.
http://www.knox.army.mil/garrison/supportoffices/sja/docs/papers/adminlaw/Military_Ball.pdf

Response by SSgt Shawn Pugmire made Aug 19 at 2016 3:59 PM

SSgt Shawn Pugmire — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:59:40 -0400

That's why the Marine Corp Cole to for the Marine ball months out so they have enough pay checks to save

Response by Cpl Ian Kuhn made Aug 19 at 2016 4:03 PM

Cpl Ian Kuhn — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 16:03:19 -0400

I actually went through this during my first Marine Corps Ball in 1999. I was stationed at Camp Fuji, and my SSgt asked me if I had bought my ticket yet. At the time I was a cook, and we were expected to be in the chowhall the night prior until roughly 1900-2100 depending on how fast we got the last meal cleaned up. I was scheduled to be in the chowhall the next morning at 0300. I planned on going to sleep, and told my SSgt so. He then informed me it was mandatory. I then, respectfully, told him that if it was mandatory then I shouldn't have to purchase a ticket. If it's mandatory I will go, but if it's not, then I'd be going to sleep. I was then told to talk to Gunny. First he asked me if I had no esprit de corps. I told him of course I did, but given the situation I'd rather prepare myself for the next day by getting a good night's sleep. He told me that the Commandants message was mandatory, and that I could go there for that part of the ceremony, then bug out immediately after, no ticket purchased. I told him that was more than fair.

The next day my SSgt called me into his office..."Something's been brought to my attention Devil Dog."
"What's that SSgt?"
"You're the youngest Marine on Base...you know what that means, right?"
As I was busting my hump getting chow out and doing the work of the four guys that were all out on their smoke break, I wasn't thinking straight..."That I have to go to the ceremony?"
"It means you're going to be IN the ceremony. They're practicing right now. Don't even change into cammies, just go in your whites."

Now...all that being said, Maj. Gen. Bolden (now the head of NASA) fed me cake...so that's cool.

tl;dr: I think my Gunny had the right idea though. Making the speech/ceremony mandatory is one thing. Making the whole ball mandatory and then charging for it is ridiculous.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Aug 19 at 2016 4:26 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 16:26:31 -0400

CH (MAJ) William Beaver: To me, in my opinion, Sir: that would just not sit right; regardless of the fact that I was Enlisted; a Specialist Four
Sincerely, Margaret

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 4:38 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 16:38:45 -0400

Legally, no. You cannot force a service member to pay for a ticket. You could maybe require them to be there as their place of duty, but you could not make them buy a ticket to the ball.

Response by MSG Edwin Delgado made Aug 19 at 2016 5:16 PM

MSG Edwin Delgado — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 17:16:11 -0400

If the COC want s soldier to participate as mandatory they should be ready to provide the ticket where necessary. Although a unit ball is always a fun event that provides the opportunity to share time with your teammates and a great opportunity for the spouses to clean up and look good.

Response by Sgt Matt Witte made Aug 19 at 2016 5:21 PM

Sgt Matt Witte — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 17:21:00 -0400

You have to attend because it's a unit funded moral event, ok bullshit!!! Should be free for certain ranks and below, but unit can't even pull that shit off. Then you have a bunch of jackass, racist officers that think they actually matter outside the military, doesn't sound like an event that is for "moral"! Should be an event that most should want to go to, but if not, sounds like a chain of command problem, either in the section or up to the top brass of the unit.

Response by LCpl Dana Paulsen made Aug 19 at 2016 5:33 PM

LCpl Dana Paulsen — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 17:33:48 -0400

No, but Marines, we love our Birthday Ball, so we always save our money so we can attend. We Marines are a special breed!

Response by SGT Philip Keys made Aug 19 at 2016 5:35 PM

SGT Philip Keys — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 17:35:25 -0400

I'm thinking they can't make you spend your own money to attend an off duty event. I'm also thinking this unit is probably a horrible unit to be in. No matter how lacking the leadership and how ate up this unit is you will attend haha. If this was a great unit everyone would want to go to the ball and if money was an issue the higher ranking members of the unit could kick in for the people that can't afford to go. Not to mention you're with these people all the time love them or hate them I would rather have some away time doing something non work related

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 5:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 17:44:18 -0400

NO! Never should a leader force a soldier to attend! EVER! They can recommend and if the soldier says no it's no. But if the soldier wants to go and the leadership wants them to go to, but that soldier can't afford it. Then the leadership should pay. But to make someone dish about 100 for two tickets, plus gas money, plus a hotel if they are drinking if wrong.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 5:55 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 17:55:29 -0400

All the military balls I went to as junior enlisted (us southern command) e-4 and below attended for free, the ward room and chiefs mess picked up the cost of our attendance.

Response by SGT D R made Aug 19 at 2016 6:14 PM

SGT D R — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 18:14:27 -0400

Well I will start this like this. We promoted fast and never learned our lesson from Vietnam/Korea so we let a bunch of kiss asses get into higher ranks that never deserved it through hard work and dedication to service like they used to. Sorry for those who earned it and I am glad for your dedication but towards the end of my service I saw so many bad things happen that 10-15 years ago GIs would have gotten kicked out for but now they sweep it under the carpet or slap them on the wrist for it. They are now in leadership positions and making junk last minute decisions instead of forward planning and solid decision making. No one near or long term plans anymore.

If I was her supervisor I would buy her ticket and press her uniform if she wanted to go. If I didn't have the money I would ask around to ensure she was covered for it. The art of taking care of soldiers is long dead and gone for the vast majority of the Army from my experience in the later years of my service (retired last year). There are still a few good ones out there but for the other 80+% they could care less unless it affects them.
If she refused I wouldn't do anything but try to get her hyped about the next ball that could be coming up or tell her she missed a good time watching CSM and COL drunk off their tail.

Response by SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr made Aug 19 at 2016 7:01 PM

SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 19:01:11 -0400

WOW, I don't know where to start ... In service or out the CSM is still due a little respect; there are a lot of unprofessional responses here from enlisted to senior NCOs to Officers alike. Is the CSM correct, maybe between 1945 - 1975; oh but that is also when "wall to wall counseling" was frond upon but not forbidden. As for those that didn't bashed the CSM but did feel the need to criticize those that opposed him your just as wrong.
This has to be one of the worst responded posts I've read; not saying there are not some really bad ones out there about wanting some cheese with their whine.
Should every member want to go; Yes. Should the reason be mandatory: No. As some have already stated Military Balls are designed to help build esprit de corps not cause finically strain on Soldiers of any ranks.
My personally worse experience with a Military Ball ... Just after becoming a Platoon Sergeant I was "directed" to oversee the ball and coordinate with the unit FRG community to "Make it happen". (I've always loved that phrase) Not a big deal you might say but as the NCOIC for the function and a Senior NCO I was expected to be there too just like the lower enlisted. SFC / E-7 no problem juggling family finical requirement correct? So let me introduce myself new to the unit, new assignment as Platoon Sergeant and how can I "ASK" my subordinates to do something I would not do. Did I fail to mention that I have four children all under the age of 13 at the time. So what does all that mean; set up an hour prior and clean up an hour after the function which was a total of four hours. My expenses as a SFC / E-7; my dry cleaning, gown for my wife, a babysitter for four children for six hours, plus tickets ... I spent almost $200 for the night, of course that included letting my wife get her hair and nails done to help make a good impression. That was $200 I had to 'pull out of my ass'; did a little robbing Peter to pay Paul and all I had was a little flip phone (No iPhones in 2004).
We all know the correct answer it's to for Soldier to spend their two week or monthly groceries bill to attend a function, but that's not all young Soldiers are coerced into. There is AER, CFC, NCOA, Regimental Association (I'm sure I'm probably forgetting one or two) even when taken out as an allotment; it is a chuck of money right of the top before the paycheck even hits the bank. Here's another for you what about the young Lieutenant who is "directed" to attend an Officer's function and wear Dress Whites and doesn't own a pair. (plus sewing and dry cleaning)
This topic unfortunately has drifted off course about as much as a 2LT with a compass and a map. This site here to share experience, mentor, answer those 'dumb' questions that somebody doesn't want to ask at the unit.
Lastly, (I cannot recall who made the comment) Military Functions are not the way to allow spouses to meet others before someone walks up to the door in dress uniforms. That is what Chaplain serves and grief counseling are for, and in allot of FRG they have a community to have that friendly, familiar face present.

Response by Sgt Tammy Wallace made Aug 19 at 2016 7:07 PM

Sgt Tammy Wallace — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 19:07:09 -0400

no. a superior can not force a subordinate to purchase a ticket and attend the ball. even though "mando fun" is common and enforced, there is no valid authority behind it. I understand the senior leader's desire to have 100% participation, but once again, that's just her desire and not something she can demand. I would highly suggest that the subordinate attend the ball, if she can afford it, but if not, then maybe she could offer to stand duty at the barracks for someone who would like to go but can't because they have duty that night. simply saying no I don't want to go because I can't afford to is kind of a cop out especially since it's known every year there is a ball and every year 100 percent participation is expected. but if just doesn't have the funds, then she just doesn't have the funds and should offer up some type of extra duty to make up for not being able to go.

Response by MSG Jamie Coleman made Aug 19 at 2016 7:12 PM

MSG Jamie Coleman — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 19:12:48 -0400

The unit can make the event mandatory , but can not force the Soldier to purchase a meal.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 7:17 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 19:17:40 -0400

Joking or not, there is a rift between the opinions of the junior and senior leadership. In my opinion this approach is garbage. Forcing soldiers to pay to play, or do the shitty details is nothing but a toxic attitude. The only thing the SGM is achieving is short term results. I think that is mentioned in an ADP/ADRP somewhere.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 7:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 19:45:15 -0400

Here is my thoughts. If the chain of command is really want 100% participant then it first starts with the day by day work environment. If the leadership day in and day out is promoting themselves in a way that makes Soldiers want to attend events like that then leadership would have to use intimation and threats get a lot of voluntary participation.

Next is the cost factor. It cost money to not only buy tickets to the event not to mention getting your uniform ready. When you include his/her date that will be accompany them to the ball that is added cost. And then you factor in the cost of getting a babysitter for children.

All that added and it's not like that will be covered by the unit's cup and flower fund or AER will be willing to give Soldier grants version loans. If unit cut the overall cost at least by 70% then you would have more participant.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 7:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 19:48:34 -0400

If it were my soldier I would pay for him/her if I wanted 100% participation

Response by CDR William Kempner made Aug 19 at 2016 8:19 PM

CDR William Kempner — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 20:19:24 -0400

I was stationed in England for three years, and the Navy and Marine Balls were a big part of our community relations activities. The locals WANTED to come and we always had a lot of fun. I honestly can't recall if it was mandatory-I was a Dept Head, so it was just a given-but it was something that our sailors ALL LIKED-me too!. (Same for the Marines. We went to theirs, and they came to ours.) I have some great photos of my dept and friends, -and everyone was in them. I guess a few might not have come, but it was FUN, and their loss if they didn't attend! The command made sure that the price for the enlisted guys and gals was marginal-enough that they'd want to go-not just wasting their money, but not to make it hard for them, and it was graduated so that O's and Chiefs paid a little extra. No big deal. Some of my best and nicest memories of being stationed overseas. The command should try to assist the junior EM so that it costs nothing or next to nothing for them to attend. The young person should try to look at it as a special night out-like a prom or something, and not something forced upon them. It makes a (good) MEMORY!! Otherwise, this stuff is just a dirty, crappy, thankless job, for which most of us are well underpaid. It makes for a little glamor and romance-something many young people don't understand until it's too late. Tell her to go!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 9:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 21:04:39 -0400

Sounds close to fraternizing to me.

Response by SPC Eric Graves made Aug 19 at 2016 9:31 PM

SPC Eric Graves — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 21:31:13 -0400

I was in for six years. While none of the formals were mandatory, the family support group would do little fund raisers, like bake sales, to pay for tickets for the younger enlisted couples that were having a tough time managing household finances. Through the FSG, and particularly the battalion CSM's wife, all the spouses in the unit were encouraged to go, and we as soldiers were told, do it so your spouse can have a night out, looking her absolute best, all while being PART of a unit function.

All of our battalion formal events were hosted or chaired by members of the 22nd Infantry Regimental Society, all men who had served with and had even commanded elements of the regiment during its recent (WWII and Vietnam) history. As a young Specialist, I was helped by my immediate chain of command in making sure my uniform was up to snuff, and when I was in a leadership position, I did the same for my soldiers. Mandatory or not, almost everybody attended, for the esprit de corps as mush as to show off our wives and give them a much needed night out.

My suggestion to any unit out there "struggling" with this problem, seek alternative means to raise funds for the junior troops, that way they can attend and take part as intended, rather than as punishment.

Response by LTC Lockhart Simpson made Aug 19 at 2016 9:45 PM

LTC Lockhart Simpson — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 21:45:37 -0400

When I was junior officer on active duty, it was pretty much expected for all officers to attend. But I don't remember any junior enlisted being coerced to attend. Maybe senior NCOs, but never E4s and below.

Response by CPL Ken Bradsher made Aug 19 at 2016 10:51 PM

CPL Ken Bradsher — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 22:51:36 -0400

They should be free. Only officers should have to pay.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2016 10:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 22:59:59 -0400

If leadership has to force the troops into mandatory fun, maybe it isn't a troop problem. Maybe it's a leadership problem.

Response by SFC William Dinwiddie made Aug 19 at 2016 11:52 PM

SFC William Dinwiddie — Fri, 19 Aug 2016 23:52:43 -0400

yes you will go this kind of crap has been going on since christ was a corporal. in the civilian world we have company picnics and christmas parties in some companies dont attend those and see what happens. i am not ssying its right its part of being with that organisation. one more thing i am retiresd army some things will never change about the army then or now.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2016 12:21 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 00:21:21 -0400

No plan and simple it is a voluntary function

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2016 2:14 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 02:14:39 -0400

Do you want to be part of the unit? Part of the Army? Your place of duty and uniform of the day can be dictated to you by the command. Your out of pocket expenses cannot.

Bottom line: you would spend $50 at the bar anyways that night... go hang with your brothers and sisters at arms.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Aug 20 at 2016 3:40 AM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 03:40:24 -0400

Without question, no.

Response by SGT Dawn Walles made Aug 20 at 2016 5:07 AM

SGT Dawn Walles — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 05:07:54 -0400

Here's the deal, you don't wanna go, don't! COC has a detail for you. You can be a unit driver and take the ticket holder's home after drinking. Don't be mad. COC if you are belittling the detail crew, then you're a dick. EVERY PERSON in your command has a place and purpose. Over here in Okinawa, there's only 250 tickets available (largest venue). So SSG & above are required to attend while SGT's & below are left to decide. Amazingly with no problems! Bottom line, don't be a dick and soldiers, go to the damn ball!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2016 5:43 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 05:43:16 -0400

CH (MAJ) William Beaver in direct response to your question, the answer is no. It is not a legal order to direct a servicemember to make any purchase not directly related to their duties. Leaders can conceivably require their subordinates to report to any event in whatever uniform they choose, as arbitrary and capricious as that might be - but they can't make them pay to attend. And it's questionable whether they can make them attend an event where they would have to pay to eat without giving them the opportunity to go to the DFAC or providing them with an MRE. Lastly, if leadership were to pay for the ticket of a subordinate who would prefer not to go, it's questionable whether the pressure of reciprocity plus the stigma imposed on the subordinate is legal.

In a broader sense, an organization that has to force its members to attend a social event meant to both attest to and build unit cohesion should do a little soul-searching and see why its culture isn't cohesive enough for its members to want to attend of their own volition. A unit should develop cohesion around a shared sense of purpose, not around a stuffy ceremonial production that feeds the ego of top leaders because they've dreamt of being at the center of such events since they joined the military decades ago. If they REALLY care about their subordinates, they'll seek to improve their work environment and quality of life based on the feedback they receive from the subordinates themselves.

Response by PO1 James White made Aug 20 at 2016 6:01 AM

PO1 James White — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 06:01:04 -0400

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2016 6:43 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 06:43:02 -0400

Not enforce but encourage them to attend their respected military culture.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2016 9:56 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 09:56:03 -0400

They can't force you to pay for it, but heck yes they can make you go. Just like SGM V said there are always details that need volunteers.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2016 1:07 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 13:07:54 -0400

No they can't, per the ethics regulations; and if they treat her differently after the fact because she didn't go, it's called an Article 138 complaint against the Commanding Officer. However, if the command finds someway to subsidize the cost so it is free, I don't see why she would not go. As military members, our uniforms are required to be in peak performance at all times, so that in itself should not be an excuse. However, no one can be ordered to attend an event and should never be used to evaluate performance, that's just morally wrong. The problem is, most people would never stand up for something like this and just go with the flow so as not to cause ripples. Commands should also never threaten extra duty in retaliation for going to events. I have never understood that. "Oh, you don't want to go? Well now you have watch all night." If the command cannot afford to shut down for one evening, then maybe the event shouldn't occur, but don't punish those who don't go, that is passive-aggressive leadership. That used to happen with a past commands xmas party. Don't go, stand watch all night. Some people don't like social functions and the military should never force participation for "voluntary" events! I personally detest social functions in the military because all it is is an excuse to get drunk and I lose respect for my seniors when I see them trashed and being idiots!

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Aug 20 at 2016 1:34 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 13:34:48 -0400

No! You cannot be ordered to buy a ticket. I like CSM Private RallyPoint Member answer. Also COL Mikel J. Burroughs answer is good. I'd like to know how it worked out.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2016 1:52 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 13:52:28 -0400

You should want to go to the ball and remember the Army has traditions and customs that we should remember and follow. Not everyone will go to the event, nor should everyone go. But I have never met anyone who went to a unit ball walk away saying they wish they didn't go. They have all said it was a good time and are glad they went. One thing leadership should do is keep the price affordable for lower enlisted, even if it means they pay a lot more. We just had our unit ball and all leadership bought tickets for about ten soldiers to attend. Let's embrace some traditions and enjoy the time together. That's what unity is.

Response by PO1 Chuck Downs made Aug 20 at 2016 2:39 PM

PO1 Chuck Downs — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 14:39:37 -0400

Uniform should always be ready . Yes if it a unit function unless you have the duty you need to attend.

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2016 5:33 PM

1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 17:33:25 -0400

I'm very certain the bits aside from spending money are lawful orders, but it is an egotistical thing for an officer to force such useless dribble on their subordinates. My base has fundraisers to cover the cost of tickets on the lower enlisted personnel to maximize participation.

Response by Sgt Joshua Seavey made Aug 20 at 2016 6:01 PM

Sgt Joshua Seavey — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 18:01:58 -0400

Yes you can be forced to go. If you don't have the money there are several ways you still go.

1) You work. Drive a shuttle, help with set up/tear down, or something else that helps with the event. Maybe event color guard.
2) Your unit lets your shop or platoon figure it out. If you don't want to pay for the tickets, there are usually only a few guys (possibly girls) that just won't. That will tell 1st Sgt or the COL straight up "no I'm not buying a ticket" or "I'm not funding the event" usually because they hate the leadership and know they won't NJP them or worse because it's too much paperwork. In these cases the lower leadership (SSgt) will either ask the rest of the shop or platoon to chip in. Or that SSgt woth just put in their own money.

There are other circumstances, but those two are the most common. Either way no, there's usually no voluntold happening, but it just makes shit harder.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Aug 20 at 2016 6:13 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 18:13:36 -0400

CH (MAJ) William Beaver how did it work out for you and the junior enlisted?

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Aug 20 at 2016 6:15 PM

SGT Suraj Dave — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 18:15:49 -0400

No one is forced, but your definitely coerced. If you don't go to the ball, you are probably going to find yourself on post police every weekend for quite a long time.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2016 6:45 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 18:45:38 -0400

Of course they can't force them to buy tickets and there shouldn't be reprisal, but money isn't really the issue, the problem of affording a ticket isn't a real factor, the stats are not staggering when it comes to costs...let's be honest, they don't want to spend more time with people at work, leadership, or otherwise. With long deployments, long hours, lack of resources, list goes on, why can't Senior Leaders realize Soldiers need a break and maybe don't want to spend any more time at with work or work related functions than they already do? It's the way it is. I used to go to the O'Club every Friday as a Lt, but now that I spend so much time at work, I would rather be home with my family.

Response by SSG Nerriss Phil made Aug 20 at 2016 7:15 PM

SSG Nerriss Phil — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 19:15:21 -0400

Thwy can make them go if its free and the receiving line is a Uniform inspection ... I remebered like hoing to these events even if just for a few hours ...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2016 7:59 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 19:59:17 -0400

No but otherwise you'll be thrown on detail for the ball anyways.... So get drunk and attend

Response by PFC Patrick Joy made Aug 20 at 2016 9:44 PM

PFC Patrick Joy — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 21:44:06 -0400

Though I don't think the event should be mandatory. I do think every service member should want to go. And if they do but lack funds they should consider details or ask leadership for help. I know when I was in there where a few times I needed help or guidance on issues. I found that if I spoke to my leadership openly and honestly they helped me as best they could.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2016 10:57 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 22:57:50 -0400

It is not only wrong, but ILLEGAL to force a subordinate to attend such a function. A complaint to IG will fix that. You CAN make them attend and they don't eat the food (not pay). You must allow for them to eat chow prior in that case. If units really want to increase morale at a higher level, pass the kiddy among the senior leaders REQUESTING contribution to hold a unit function (FRG could put money into this, too) and do it at the park, or pool, or whatever. The best unit function I ever saw was at a pool, it was USAF, the wing CDR, VWC, and other senior leaders coughed up enough money to have a line of taxis waiting outside the entrance for anyone that had been drinking. The cabs were all pre-paid.

Response by SPC Dave Janis made Aug 20 at 2016 11:27 PM

SPC Dave Janis — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 23:27:30 -0400

By DOD regulation, servicemembers can not be "volun-told" to go to any established event that serves or makes sales with the use of alcohol. Leaders at all levels know this, they however make it worth the while to do it, with days off and things like that, incentives are fine, but forcing is a form of harrassment, which is a definitive NO GO

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 1:10 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 01:10:41 -0400

Really??? I want to see whos is gonna make me to go to the ball

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 7:50 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 07:50:17 -0400

You cannot force them to buy a ticket but you can use them as part of detail needed t support the function and make the duty uniform Class A. AND, if your detail is full, there is always room

Response by A1C Kyle Dulawan made Aug 21 at 2016 7:58 AM

A1C Kyle Dulawan — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 07:58:03 -0400

I dont feel it would be right to force someone new to the unit and lower enlisted on top of that to chose between showing up and feeling that you may be judged off of something that has nothing to do with your actual job. However if they step forward and simply state they dont have the extra funds then of course you should check on them. Being low on money can in of itself effect preformance and is something that maybe a little counceling/one on one conversation can help. I mean isnt that the the point of those with more experiance having power over those who have less?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 9:20 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 09:20:11 -0400

If you have to question whether you should have to go to unit functions, you should consider a new line of work because this is not work, this is a profession and there are things that go along with being a professional Soldier that Walmart, Wall Street, KBR and Honeywell don't require. It comes down to how loyal to your chosen profession are you. Answer that question, draw fire and move out!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 9:23 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 09:23:57 -0400

I personally love going to these events to eat some good food, and watch the unit's leaders do some pretty crazy stuff over a bowl of grog. My unit said it was mandatory to go unless you had a valid excuse, and 1SG did accept money as a viable reason. For myself however, it was very enjoyable to watch the young officers get shitfaced, the older, wiser NCO's drink shocking amounts of alcohol, and the warrant officers get their dance on. I would have missed everything if I hadn't gone, and I wouldn't miss a fun night like that for the world.

Response by SSG Delores McDaniel made Aug 21 at 2016 9:49 AM

SSG Delores McDaniel — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 09:49:40 -0400

Not legally, no. Treated differently? Probably. Unless the event is sponsored by the unit at no cost to soldiers, it cannot be made mandatory.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Aug 21 at 2016 10:02 AM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 10:02:41 -0400

The short answer is, no, you cannot order a junior to participate in a function that requires them buying a ticket.

Response by LTC Chuck Abbott made Aug 21 at 2016 10:17 AM

LTC Chuck Abbott — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 10:17:03 -0400

No, but if you don't they will make it hard for you.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 10:31 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 10:31:40 -0400

No you can't be compelled... Though that doesn't mean you won't be pressured

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 10:35 AM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 10:35:00 -0400

No, a leader should not compel his subordinates to spend their wages on a ticket to attend a formal event. However, that leader could feel free highly encourage attendance if he/she was willing to pay for the subordinate's tickets themselves.

The dry cleaning fees are a non issue as your semi-formal uniform and mess dress (for officers) are mandatory and should be serviceable and ready to wear at all times

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 11:47 AM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 11:47:44 -0400

Well either you attend as quest or you attend as a working party

Response by LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 12:34 PM

LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 12:34:35 -0400

Absolutely not. And to all of the "leaders" whose comments continue to denigrate soldiers for not going should check their attitudes, then reframe their comments to their subordinates.
Formal are a tradition, a chance to network, and to display social skills with and among family members. They are not, and should never be a compulsatory event. I would prefer to not attend with some who were forced to.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 2:31 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 14:31:11 -0400

No one can force a subordinate to buy and attend a military ball.

However, as an officer, I did my best to attend those events. The times I missed one, were for the birth of on of my kids or another family or personal event already in the calendar before the ball was announced. The expectation to attend were among the senior officers and NCOs, and there were accountabilities with attending social events. Good leaders knew why their soldiers didn't make it and why, and it was left at that.

The intent of the balls is to raise camaraderie and bring unit cohesion through the celebration of the customs of the service. Understanding that money was an issue for many of the junior soldiers, the senior leadership (officer and NCOs alike) sponsored a junior soldier by purchasing a ticket for the junior soldier. Most times the sponsored junior soldiers would do their best to attend the event the following year and save some money.

Unfortunately, many of our soldiers, officers and NCO's see these events as ways to suck up to the senior leaders. Sad reality, because is not always true. Many soldiers don't realize that most senior leaders can smell the ass kissers from a mile away whether during the work hours or during social events.

Response by SSgt Randy Waters made Aug 21 at 2016 3:52 PM

SSgt Randy Waters — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 15:52:39 -0400

I'll just volunteer for Duty that night so some other well deserving person can have the opportunity to go in my place.

Response by Lt Col Eric Davis made Aug 21 at 2016 4:18 PM

Lt Col Eric Davis — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 16:18:26 -0400

If the unit is well-led and functioning at optimal horsepower, most people possessing even a small amount of esprit de corps will want to attend.If there is a large population (I'm just throwing this number out there) of say 30% who don't want to attend, it would be a good idea for leaders to find out why. Chances are good that if a large segment of the people in your unit are uninterested in going, you've either got some morale problems in that unit or the leadership is running the unit like a private enterprise.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 5:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 17:56:38 -0400

No you cannot force someone, I have seen it pushed and command made hints of retribution if you did not attend. One good thing I dreaded most of them but in the end wound up enjoying them.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 21 at 2016 6:31 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 18:31:42 -0400

Military tradition isn't optional. I don't agree that Troops should be forced to buy expensive meals and hotel rooms but attending the ceremony itself should be mandatory. Just with every Marine Birthday Ball I attended you can sit in chairs to the side of the ballroom. After the ceremony is complete and the meal, music and party begin they are more than welcome to carry on with their evening plans.

As for the other questions your Military Uniforms should be serviceable and ready for wear regardless. Not an excuse to not attend.

Response by SPC Jared Brown made Aug 21 at 2016 6:40 PM

SPC Jared Brown — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 18:40:06 -0400

My command use to give away tickets to the junior enlisted, I was at a hospital and managed to use work as an excuse to skip the balls, but I went my last year in the military and it was one of the more fun events I had during my time in.

Response by CPT Tom Fawls made Aug 21 at 2016 7:03 PM

CPT Tom Fawls — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:03:49 -0400

OH HELL, YEAH! That's one of the more long-lived traditions in the Army.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out George Washington forced his staff to go to one or two Mil-Balls while they were lazing around old Valley Forge! :D

Response by PO3 James Conner made Aug 21 at 2016 7:05 PM

PO3 James Conner — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:05:08 -0400

My advice (cause I've been there) use your CoC and borrow the cash and just go. Far better then getting on the shit list.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 7:18 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:18:22 -0400

How about, and I'm just spit balling the trend of high leadership here SGM, 1SGs and brass of all accounts. When was the finalized approved OPORD disseminated to the lowest joe. The day before, week of, exactly. Like your IPhone 6S w/ this that and another. Yes I do, why because I bought it and pay for it with my below poverty line income. Customers and curtsies while important (I do agree) does not give the "New Army" to force those expenses on the Soldier, regardless of rank. Not to mention it is illegal, immoral, and unethical in its very definition. But you higher enlisted stick to your disolussioned ideals. That's why good Soldiers don't re-enlist and shit bag retards rule the ranks.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 7:55 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 19:55:11 -0400

So my take is; if I want my people to go, I'm going to ask them to go. If they can't afford it, their supervisors or I buy the tickets. If they still don't want to go, you're damn right I hold it against them. I'm not vindictive or anything but in my experience, most the folks who find every excuse not to go and support these functions are the first ones whining about unit morale and how the service sucks and they can't wait to get out. So, I will tactfully remind them that they do in fact have opportunities to help build unit cohesion and morale.

Response by Debbie Samra made Aug 21 at 2016 8:21 PM

Debbie Samra — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 20:21:23 -0400

I don't think so. We went to our first and only one in Germany and had a hard time finding a sitter for our two boys. Buying the tickets for two and then paying a babysitter was rough. They should not be forced to go and it should not be held against them if they don't.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 9:00 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 21:00:37 -0400

Support of the unit is an essential part of being a soldier. I am not going to go into minute details to justify, but unit support is important. Now with that said, if the circumstances are as stated above, it would be up to the Leader to either work with the SM on a workable solution, a work-around or say ok, you are excused. Not every situation fits into a nice little answer cut out.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 9:47 PM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 21:47:11 -0400

I'm not a legal eagle, but based on my 20+ years of service as a "sea lawyer", I'd say no unless the command purchased the tickets. If love 100% of my Saikors to attend, but for a myriad of reasons they may not want to. I know Officers and senior Enlisted who don't want to. I never attended one until I was an E-7. It is what it is. Could you make it a place of duty? Probably. But then I'm pretty sure you couldn't force the servicemember to come out of pocket for the tickets.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 10:07 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:07:37 -0400

Response by SPC Barrett Tillison made Aug 21 at 2016 10:15 PM

SPC Barrett Tillison — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:15:25 -0400

While I was still in we had a dinning out. We were not forced to attend, but those who DID attend did not have to report until 1200. Only 3 of us decided not to go, we showed up at 0600 as usual, and the highest ranking was a SPC who promptly took accountability, and proceeded to zonk us until 1200. We were later informed of what awesomness we missed, and immediately regretted it, but at no point were we forced to attend. Those who did not attend regretted it, and to this day I regret not going...but again, we were never forced to attend due to the fact that it would have costed money...PERIOD!

Response by COL John Hudson made Aug 21 at 2016 10:31 PM

COL John Hudson — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:31:32 -0400

From the IG Desk: There is no regulatory requirement forcing attendance at an optional (off duty) recognition assembly that I am aware of. The 'senior leader' spoken of above knows that. Suggesting "100% participation" is an off-handed way of attempting to garner as much attendance as possible without authority to make it mandatory. We have all been through that same action throughout our careers. While I personally disliked being 'audience' at such affairs, I went anyway to support the event. The best COA for you is to approach that individual privately and explain your circumstances as to why it would be difficult for you to attend. I feel your reasons are acceptable and would grant a pass on this one...but, I'm not your 'senior leader.' Talk to her.

Response by PO2 David Ball made Aug 21 at 2016 10:51 PM

PO2 David Ball — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:51:00 -0400

So the unit can not fund this person..Or is the command too cheap. Come on this is a worthless question. Most services and commands do have the either a staff NCO mess or junior officers mess etc.. The worst that can happen is if it's his duty day he either works or is likey the duty driver.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2016 11:20 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 23:20:54 -0400

They can't force you, but come on its $20-$40. I spend more than that on chew in a week. I hate ass kissers that go to brown nose but if you're new it may help to at least get some face time with people from your new unit.

Response by SSgt Randy Sanchez made Aug 21 at 2016 11:43 PM

SSgt Randy Sanchez — Sun, 21 Aug 2016 23:43:56 -0400

I've attended every Marine Corps Ball since 1976. You plan and attend. Your uniforms should always be ready, wife's gown that's another story, you can always rent one or wear last years

Response by Patricia Garris-Shoemaker made Aug 22 at 2016 3:04 AM

Patricia Garris-Shoemaker — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 03:04:33 -0400

I don't think they technically can force you, but it's highly frowned upon. Before my father retired he/we went to military gala's put on by the base commander. My mother acted as his hostess, bc his wife had died and my father was his pilot. My brother and I were expected to attend as well. The different gala's were expected, as well as maintaining your dress uniform at all times for preparedness.

Response by SPC Joshua Fahlin made Aug 22 at 2016 3:55 AM

SPC Joshua Fahlin — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 03:55:40 -0400

I was forced or informed that either I buy a ticket or be Honor Guard. Well I bought the ticket then left after about an hour. I have no desire to be surrounded by drunk a-holes. Back to b's and hit the gym and had a couple smokes.

Response by LTC James Bozeman made Aug 22 at 2016 7:28 AM

LTC James Bozeman — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 07:28:48 -0400

I know that all Unit Events I went to and helped fund raise for and run were "highly encouraged" but never forced. That being said, we made it really easy for junior enlisted folks to attend by fund raising the crap out of the events and in some cases getting the cost down to $5 a head for our junior folks. Senior folks (Company Commander and above paid full price). In some cases, I just bought tickets for Soldiers to attend. So funding was never really an issue in MOST organizations I was part of during my time in service. If someone could not attend - then it was understood - however they were usually on leave. If someone did NOT want to attend - then our senior enlisted personnel made sure that others who wanted to attend were not denied the opportunity by switching duty schedules. It was fair and equitable - but everyone did their part. Is this coercion to go? Not in my book - just a good use of the available personnel pool.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Aug 22 at 2016 7:34 AM

Capt Walter Miller — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 07:34:09 -0400

I will go you $40 for $60 on payday. Next problem?

I don't think the Marine Corps Ball is discussed in those terms. It pretty much is a unit function.

Walt

Response by PFC Michael Vaughn made Aug 22 at 2016 7:46 AM

PFC Michael Vaughn — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 07:46:26 -0400

A waste of time and money.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 8:18 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 08:18:41 -0400

I was kinda kinda forced not really I end up going and it was a lot of fun cause 1-41 3rd brigade at fort bliss was fucking awesome the leadership was cool and you get to see everyone get shit faced but if you don't feel like going to a party than I don't think you should have to its your money you earned it why spend it on something you don't want to

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 9:59 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 09:59:34 -0400

They'll find a way, if you don't go the the ball, your gonna end up driving drunk soldiers from the ball to their hotel or house, you'll be up all night, so would your rather get drunk or drive around drunk people?

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Aug 22 at 2016 10:16 AM

Maj Marty Hogan — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 10:16:32 -0400

Can't force them if they don't want to- but I have always offered to any of our E5s and below in the group. I encourage them- best way to meet people within your unit and let people know who you are. Our unit does a military ball- they can wear their service dress or a white collard shirt. No need to dry clean etc. Just want them there.

Response by SPC Fred Genna made Aug 22 at 2016 10:17 AM

SPC Fred Genna — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 10:17:33 -0400

The senior leader I believe is only saying she wants 100% participation not requiring so as they say want in one hand shit in the other see which one fills up first.

Response by Maj John Bell made Aug 22 at 2016 10:57 AM

Maj John Bell — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 10:57:57 -0400

When dinosaurs roamed the Earth. Officers Paid, Enlisted didn't.

Response by SSgt Jesse LeSueur made Aug 22 at 2016 11:22 AM

SSgt Jesse LeSueur — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 11:22:31 -0400

Go or your life will be hell. The purge and force shaping have left you with the crappiest leadership since before the second world war, so these dog and pony shows are now more important than moral or mission readiness. Sure you dont have enough people or equipment to do the work, and your E-4s are probably doing E-6 level work their unqualified to do, but isnt it great they spent several thousand to make the Lt Col look good on their OPR?

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Aug 22 at 2016 11:26 AM

GySgt Joe Strong — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 11:26:27 -0400

Everything you need to know has been said somewhere in this thread, my take is here:
1) There are straight up martinets who don't get it.
2) Semi-Reasonable folk who say no, and then wink at the fact that your absence will be noted.
3) And those firmly based in reality who understand that if there were a decent Command Climate people would be knocking down the 1st Sgts door to avoid missing out by not getting a ticket.
I've been to MC Balls and Dining in, and Dining outs in all three of these conditions, obviously the best ones were at the good Commands, but other than one that was a complete mess, I've had fun at all of them. And frankly, the screwed up one - well, I embraced the suck, had fun anyway, just not necessarily as intended...

Bottom line: No, it's illegal for them to force you to. But if they haven't created that positive unit climate you can bet there will be consequences for not buying the ticket, or even for not showing up even though you bought the ticket.

Final thought - For the lower enlisted who have never organized an event like this, even in a less than stellar Command environment. The folks who actually did the work to provide the event (arranging a hall is sometimes harder than you might think, there are often costs for the takeaways, glasses etc., those cigars are cheap but not free, those servers have to get paid, the food isn't free, etc., etc.) You might consider giving that MSGT/SFC or Master Sergeant/GySgt a break and honor the work they did and the higher prices they're going to pay by attending. Rightly or wrongly they are doing it for YOU. It can be fun, it isn't always but you already know how to embrace the suck and make it fun if you have to, right?

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 11:58 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 11:58:53 -0400

Since you didn't specify that this was an Army-only question, I'll give you the Marine Corps official position.

The Marine Corps ball consists of two separate events: the official ceremony, which every Marine will attend, and the dinner-dance. That is why the cutting of the cake, which is part of the official ceremony, takes place before dinner and dance.

The official function can be an mandated event. Marines cannot be compelled to attend the dinner, or pay for it, though some units try. Since the cost of the ceremony can bleed into the dinner and dance, some units even go as far as holding an official ceremony at the unit for those that won't go to the evening affair.

Having said that, I'll call the majority of the money/date preparation costs/uniform cleaning/etc arguments for what they are: a cheap (haha) excuse.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 12:34 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:34:29 -0400

Technically no but about 99.99℅ of the time leadership force subordinates to attend. With the job I have the last thing I want to do it to go to a Ball that runs to midnight. My job is way too tiring for us to want to do something with our battalion. Ask any Rigger with the amount of chutes and jump Division wants from us and "forcing" us to attend a Ball. Majority of us (mainly junior enlisted) don't want to attend because they want to relax or do something they like on their very minimum free time.

Response by SSG Nat Dillenback made Aug 22 at 2016 2:06 PM

SSG Nat Dillenback — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:06:42 -0400

First, I can't imagine not wanting to go to the ball or mess night, but that is your call. At any ball I attended ther was a sliding cost scale and no one who wanted to go was left home. If you were adamant about not going (and it usually only happened once), there was plenty you could do. The guys that did not go covered barracks duty, mess duty, guard duty, etc. for the weekend so that those that wanted to attend, could. Designated drivers in 15 pax vans shuttled their inebriated comrades back and forth all night and cleaned up the occasional mess in the back. You were not "forced" to go, but next year that $20 was small money.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 3:42 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:42:09 -0400

Unit pays for the ticket for the service member (SM). Spouse (if there is one) can come if they pay. Maintaining the dress uniform is a responsibility of the SM. Many of us seniors will buy a ticket for junior members who want to go but can't swing the cost easily. The junior may have spent the money on the nice car, or phone, etc. The money is spent. I am not obligated to spend my pay on military balls or events. I do not expect the SM to break a contract or return/sell personal property to accommodate purchasing a ball or event ticket. As a responsible leader I know my Soldiers and would have to consider the possibility of child care expenses (for a single parent for example). The putting the SM on Color Guard does not get the leader off the hook. What if the child/children have special needs? I thank SGM Vidakovich for his service but am equally glad he is no longer in a position to spread toxic leadership within our ranks. The limit to his reach now is trolling what is supposed to be a profession forum.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 5:39 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:39:45 -0400

As a new Soldier I was excited to go to them to learn the history and to get to know my fellow soldiers to understand more of the unit that I was in, but I soon learned that that's not what it was really like. I didn't do it just once I want to see others because obviously one time wasn't enough for me to learn. What happened in one unit military function could not possibly it happened it every single one. Here's my issue I don't drink I don't like being around alcohol I don't like being around drunk people I have been to many many many many military function, seriously I already know how they are and don't tell me you don't have to stay for the after party because I already know how the before party is I should be able to choose not to have to be around that kind of stuff. Once the military said hey this will be an alcohol-free I'll be more than happy to attend. Lol I'm such a stick in the mud. Before you judge me think of how many stupid people have had to deal with at military function that have been drinking. Now think of how many young female privates (because yes at one time I was one) had to do with those stupid drunken people. After a few times and having to deal with it as a young Soldier I swore if I never had to go to another military ball I never would again. I can hear now someone commenting on well I'm sure there was a lack of good leadership letting people act in inappropriate ways. Please we all know how stupid people are when they drink we all know people turn a blind eye at these functions. Forcing people to go to military functions where there is alcohol is wrong......Grog bowl anyone? Are there a lot of other young soldiers they hear that this is exactly what it's like when you go to a military function people who outrank them are going to be drunk telling them off or harassing them and it's not going to be any fun. I know a lot of people who hate going to them but they suck it up because they know it's expected of them. More power to your brothers and sisters I'll take your staff duty that night for ya.

Response by SSG James Hobbs made Aug 22 at 2016 6:24 PM

SSG James Hobbs — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 18:24:59 -0400

I think all balls should be mandatory to make sure their uniforms still fit.

Response by PFC Jessi West made Aug 22 at 2016 6:37 PM

PFC Jessi West — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 18:37:09 -0400

I would never expect anyone to attend something they cannot afford. I don't think so, she has the right to refuse.

Response by FN Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2016 7:05 PM

FN Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:05:35 -0400

Well, as fun as the events can be, any time it becomes anything other than voluntary, it is no longer enjoyable. So of course the answer is no.

Response by Cpl T C made Aug 22 at 2016 10:43 PM

Cpl T C — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 22:43:48 -0400

I will said Fuck you in my head every single time when it is that time of the year of military balls. Spending nearly 300$ on uniform, tickets, and other craps, ill said if you are going to pay for my stuff, ill go especially to the other places that are really shitty! for 1 hour of actual showtime and everything else goes in to the toilet, i will said no again next year!

Response by Sgt Joshua Stath made Aug 22 at 2016 11:04 PM

Sgt Joshua Stath — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:04:43 -0400

Volunteer? We were voluntold but I'm not bitching. Some of my fondest memories are of going to the Marine Corps balls. I was part of the color gaurd 3 years in a row. Didn't hurt my feeling. I felt honored to be apart of it, but that's just me.

Response by PO2 Caesar Coney made Aug 22 at 2016 11:39 PM

PO2 Caesar Coney — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:39:49 -0400

No, of course not!

Response by Capt Laura Hollenbeck made Aug 23 at 2016 12:07 AM

Capt Laura Hollenbeck — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 00:07:57 -0400

This was brought up to our JAG and the answer returned was that we cannot force anyone to buy a ticket, but the free portions (the cake cutting ceremony) can be that Marine's appointed place of duty that day. As far as the question about the uniform, while on active duty, you are required to have serviceable uniforms at the ready. The biggest financial burdens are getting new insignia sewn on or medals mounted.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 8:25 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:25:03 -0400

No one has the balls to say no anymore but that cannot be forced, both regulations and ucmj specify the only time a service member can involuntarily have their funds taken. ONLY for ucmj action punishment or recoup for equipment loss/damage, overpayment, payment mistake, reduction in rank which overlapped a pay period.

Response by PO1 Darren Martin made Aug 23 at 2016 1:16 PM

PO1 Darren Martin — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:16:04 -0400

I never went once and never had the chance to go to one. I was in my a school during one and I was deployed for the next two and medically retiring for the last one. I think its good for morale purposes because you get to know people outside of work and have a better rapport with individuals. I enjoyed getting to know my leadership and subordinates outside out work.

My platoon leader used to make us go to events outside of work together to build espirt de corps. We generally did lunch at a local place and grabbed a few beers and it was generally pretty fun and I got to know them on a personal level.

I think in terms of pay that if someone wanted to go I would cover them the money and they could pay me back later, but I understand the money issue.

Response by SFC Phillip Allen made Aug 23 at 2016 1:55 PM

SFC Phillip Allen — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:55:27 -0400

Buy a ticket, no? Attend, yes. You are required to maintain a dress uniform, and regardless of the type of event, the Class A is always acceptable to any military function. So, you can be made to attend at no cost, that doesn't mean you be able to participate in every activity, but the experience has always been a positive for me, at least. Units that demand you purchase upgrades to your uniform are no following protocol, and you have a definite gripe. Childcare should be provided at no cost, to attendees, hence FRG and on post childcare. So, I don't see the problem. Every ball I'v attended was professional, and well executed, the historical aspects and unit pride were always excellent. I see posts from people complaining about "the brass" overindulging and showing out, that has not been my experience. The unit always deals with those cases, and in most cases designated drivers are provided by the unit at no cost to get soldiers back to the barracks and married personnel back to the residences. Hence those details folks are talking about, others like ushers, color guard, etc.

Response by LT Mordechai Schwab made Aug 25 at 2016 6:30 PM

LT Mordechai Schwab — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 18:30:19 -0400

I know legally they cannot force one to go. Yet I also know, practically speaking, there will be consequences if one does not attend. I am not sure what the enlisted folks were told, but when I was a junior officer I was told, not only did I have to attend the Navy Ball, but to invite and offer to pay for, my USMC BN CDR's ticket as well. Thankfully, he said he would pay his own ticket! Of course, this is the same command that told us if we wanted an end of tour gift, we would have to donate the cost into the particular fund that was used to pay for it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2016 5:26 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Sep 2016 17:26:26 -0400

They can't. I never did. I didn't click with my unit socially. I wasn't paying to spend more time around them than necessary. A foolish thing to do.

Response by LTC Sonya Friday made Sep 13 at 2016 6:11 PM

LTC Sonya Friday — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 18:11:45 -0400

They can not force them to purchase a ticket but they can make them be there as their place of duty with the specified uniform. It is a SMs obligation to have their uniform ready at all times as well as be at their appointed place of duty. Military Ball's are part of tradition and something that allows the tradition to passed on.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 3:42 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 15:42:59 -0400

The unit cannot force you to pay for extra curriculars. However if you are required to be there in a uniform it is your responsibility to keep that ready at all times because you get an annual clothing allowance. yes you would be treated differently if you refused to pay. You would likely be forced to be in a working party.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Sep 15 at 2016 2:58 PM

GySgt William Hardy — Thu, 15 Sep 2016 14:58:40 -0400

CH (CPT) William Beaver - I already answer this in a longer post, but the answer is no; however, I have know people who bought the cheapest ticket and then just didn't go. I guess it just depends on whether or not you want to stir things up and stand on your rights or just let it pass. I saw the same pressure placed on everyone to give to the United Fund drive. People would give 50 cents or a dollar just to get the command off their back.

PS - I have seen people who did not go get assigned to the various duties for that night and the next day. Seemed like a sorry way to run an outfit. Some would volunteer for Duty NCO or some other duty rather than attend.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Sep 17 at 2016 6:14 PM

MAJ Javier Rivera — Sat, 17 Sep 2016 18:14:54 -0400

Just a little story: 1993, the BN had its Summer Ball and PFC Rivera went and got his set of Army Blues. PFC Rivera went to the BN Ball. He felt like he's about to conquer the world 'cause he knew his Stabrite Jump Wings and Rigger Wings shone like the sun! PFC goes to the bar during the social. Very near where PFC Rivera was doing one of the things Paratroopers do best were two Senior NCOs wearing Greens. BN CSM approached the Senior NCOs and asked them: what is wrong with the picture? The Senior NCOs didn't get it. He looked at PFC Rivera and asked him to step besides him and said: how in the *#%!? world a PFC is wearing a set of Army Blues and there are Senior NCOs without them? PFC Rivera drank for free the rest of the eaving. A year later, with a few Soldier of the month/quarter boards under his belt, now SPC Rivera went to the SGT Promotion Board. BN CSM opened the session and asked: SPC Rivera, tell me something about the history of my BN? SPC Rivera, with a lot of confidence began telling the BN' story. CSM stopped him and said: I believe SPC Rivera has 198 points; 1SGs do you have more questions for SPC Rivera? 8 months later I got promoted to SGT/E5. The uniform and the ball did promote me but it showed up dedication, discipline, esprit de corps, which reflected on my 27 years of military career!

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2016 12:09 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Sep 2016 12:09:12 -0400

No you can not force subordinates to attend a function they must buy a ticket to get into. The fact this question keeps popping up worries me.

Our areas Navy Ball is next month, I have put out to all my people they can attend and where to buy tickets. I have encouraged them but made it clear its their choice and I wont hold it against them if they choose to not attend. Some are single parents and finding a sitter for a child can be a pain and costly, should I punish junior people because they cant drop 40 bucks for a ticket and another 40 child care? What about those that are introverts and just don't want to attend.

Mandatory fun is no fun, want to build team work and camaraderie have an impromptu BBQ out back, take the team bowling for lunch, have a laugh together, take 20 min out of your day to learn about your people, what do they like what makes them tick. Don't try and force people to be friends, or hang out. Offer it and then move on.

Response by SGM Harvey Boone made Sep 30 at 2016 8:54 PM

SGM Harvey Boone — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 20:54:45 -0400

The truth if you value your career you make an appearance.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Oct 3 at 2016 9:32 AM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 09:32:10 -0400

This issue has been around for as long as there has been a military. Mandatory parties or ceremonies are a part of military life that you simply can't get away from. Of course the "official" answer to this question is no. However if you should choose to miss the event, be prepared for the repercussions that will show up in areas such as teamwork come annual review time. Fortunately or unfortunately, part of any military career is support of unit activities and anyone who does not go along with this will most likely have a very short career.
I had sort of a similar problem the week I PCSed into a new unit during the holidays. I was informed of a mandatory wing party the coming Saturday. We were living in the TOQ and household goods/clothing were in storage somewhere. Fortunately dress for service members was Class A uniforms, but still had to purchase ticket and go out and buy dress for my wife. Did we ever consider not attending? Heck no, just sucked it up and went out and had a great time with the new wing. Also, don't think mandatory events are exclusive to the military. Ran into many in my civilian job after leaving the military, but by this time had learned to accept it as a fact of life.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2016 10:03 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Oct 2016 10:03:40 -0400

Yes to attendance and no to paying; balls are typically an appointed place of duty, and require attendance for at the very least the ceremony. That said, the ball ticket is meant to cover a meal and sometimes a small number of drinks: if you're not paying, you don't eat. There's other things such as working parties and honor guard duties that a service member may be made to go do.
As far as one's uniform being dry cleaned and squared away, that's something that should already be the case, ball or not.
A "respectful refusal" may be interpreted as an Article 92 "Disobeying a Direct Order".
As far as tickets being 20-40 dollars, wow. I don't think I've ever been to such an inexpensive ball.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Oct 5 at 2016 9:01 AM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 09:01:29 -0400

Ummmmmmm NO!

Response by SFC Alan Newhall made Oct 5 at 2016 4:28 PM

SFC Alan Newhall — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 16:28:44 -0400

Oh they can and over my 27 years before I retired I was made to. In the AAR I always am sure to bring up what a waste of tax payers money it is and how if they didn't make people go there would be nobody there. They should call it what it is, a command function with attendance required. As for the uniform you are always expected to have you dress Blues ready to go.

Response by SPC Don Wynn made Oct 14 at 2016 5:16 PM

SPC Don Wynn — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:16:23 -0400

Holy Crap!!! Didn't realize how divisive this situation could be! And how much disrespect there appears to be in the current military. I'm shocked to see some of the responses on here. Truly. If you are senior NCO/Officer, bitching about morale and esprit de corps, how about looking in a mirror and realize that it is YOU who are responsible for that? I would say you are the people most responsible for that! Sounds like some of you have forgotten what being a junior was like. You might want to go back to getting in the mud with your troops and get an idea of what it is like to be in that mud before you bitch about morale. Juniors, you don't get off the hook either! As the service is volunteer, none of you have been drafted, I would think you'd want to embrace what you signed up for! And yeah, I've been there; I've had senior NCOs and officers I wouldn't lift a finger to do anything for, let alone want to mingle with them in a social gathering. That isn't what these balls are for. Bitching about cost? Get real!! It's no more than you would spend on a night with your buds, and I would hazard a guess that the food was 10 times better! And consider this, that hardass platoon sergeant just might be a different person with a couple drinks in him, not to mention how funny would it be to see Top all wiggy wit it after a few too many? And *Gasp, no way* you might even have fun. I never had the opportunity, as apparently this is a new phenom of service. The only balls I even heard of (I was in from '73-'77, Infantry) were for command personnel 'downtown' - base/post command units. Besides, it's a chance to wear those class As gathering dust in the locker!!

Response by MSG Ed Collins made Nov 2 at 2016 7:15 PM

MSG Ed Collins — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 19:15:26 -0400

No absolute not.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2016 7:01 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Nov 2016 19:01:31 -0500

Not ethically but it can be "strongly encouraged". They can call it a Command Function but it's debatable whether anyone can be forced to pay to attend. I defer to legal types for clarification there. Any appearance of retribution for non-participants only digs the grave deeper for any leader that is involved. This is because some of these types are just looking for an excuse to resist and to document it and demand that their "rights" have been hijacked. Not all, as some have a reason other than "make me, I dare you". Those that want to but can't afford it should be allowed to through whatever means are available. It is permissible to utilize those that choose not to attend to augment the event with various assignments as long as it is done fairly. Things like preparation, parking, driving, various details and actions after the event could be assigned within reason. Since most of the attendees will often be granted a day off the next day, the rest become likely candidates to keep the unit manned. If the organizer of the event has to cajole people to attend then there are larger problems than just the event. If the command climate has deteriorated to this point then there are some serious issues within the unit. You will always have the 10% that choose to be nonconformists, no matter how inspired and motivated the rest of the unit are. I'd be more concerned about helping the junior folks that are economically challenged attend than convincing the others that can but choose not to.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2016 8:04 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Nov 2016 20:04:16 -0500

Legally? I suspect.....NOT! Practically? Depending upon the unit, not 'falling in line' could make one very uncomfortable for the remainder of your assignment there. One unit to which I belonged during my enlisted years, was commanded by An Air Force Major who required every one in the unit to attend "religious services (of his choosing)" which I will not identify. The unit was comprised of Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps personnel. To "cross the commander" was not a choice. We were all forced to comply.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2016 9:55 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Nov 2016 21:55:47 -0500

One of the most memorable nights of my life was an NCO Mess Night I attended as a Sergeant at Quantico in 1980. I don't recall the cost but it was minimal and I would have paid it many times over for the experience. It's a formal affair and very structured but also a lot of fun. The President of the Mess is the senior Sergeant and the Vice President (referred to as Mr. Vice) is the junior one. Members of the Mess have to request permission to speak from Mr. Vice and can be refused. Besides the traditional meal are a series of toasts and one can even be fined by having to buy a round, drop for push ups or whatever the Vice may order. It is formal but also a blast. Our Guest of Honor was the then Sergeant Major of USMC Leland B. Crawford and besides the BN Sgt Major were the three Company 1st Sgts. One of them was one of the last serving MOH recipients who later retired as a Sgt Maj. As the night progressed and the liquor flowed it became quite the experience. I'll never forget a couple of NCO's having mock sword fights with Marine NCO swords as the very large Sgt Maj USMC casually chatted with other NCO's. He was a very large man from W. VA. and was in his SNCO Mess Dress uniform with traditional large cavalry style chevrons adorning it. Mr. Vice was a close friend and neighbor and his fiancé found him face down in the mud in his Dress Blues outside the apartment complex the next morning. It was that kind of night and one I'll never forget. Not saying all events will live up to this but encourage all to at least give one a try. It's a small price to pay to commemorate the history and traditions of our Service. Best wishes.

Response by CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols made Nov 28 at 2016 5:52 PM

CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols — Mon, 28 Nov 2016 17:52:04 -0500

I would have no problem helping my people to get to the ball. I've even paid for cleaning and got a local church to do child care for free. My people all had a good time and I was there for them...

Response by MAJ Mark Wilson made Dec 22 at 2016 12:38 PM

MAJ Mark Wilson — Thu, 22 Dec 2016 12:38:13 -0500

I hate seeing these types of post. Why? 1. Everyone should want to go to the unit ball. 2. It should be made affordable for all ranks and tickets scaled by rank/grade. 3. Fundraising should be done to offset costs for anyone who can't afford it.

That being said, if unit moral is so bad that no one wan't to attend you have huge issues. The Command needs a serious looking into. Why is toxic leadership such an issue these days? Our PC and zero defects mentality needs to be thrown out, it's killing the force.

Response by SPC Joshua Brumley made Jan 24 at 2017 11:19 PM

SPC Joshua Brumley — Tue, 24 Jan 2017 23:19:11 -0500

I attended a few balls when I was in; the few that were manditory didn't cost me anything thankfully. For the most part, though, I found them pretty boring. The events I really didn't like were the FRG events. They were always manditory even if you were single and more than a few of the spouses would try to pull rank on the lower enlisted.

Response by Cpl Gary Szymczak made Feb 14 at 2017 5:59 PM

Cpl Gary Szymczak — Tue, 14 Feb 2017 17:59:15 -0500

Captain, you've never been enlisted have you? Ha ha

Response by SPC Saundra Teater made Mar 4 at 2017 5:10 AM

SPC Saundra Teater — Sat, 04 Mar 2017 05:10:42 -0500

I don't ever remember paying to participate in unit events, but I do remember being on what we called the non volunteered list and it being called the mandatory fun event in Germany that meant being part of any ceremony the Germans have, and they loved parades. I actually volunteered once, and that one time was enough to continue to add my name on every volunteer list. So, class A uniform was always parade ready. I hated it. All speeches were in German so we got to stand at parade rest for two or three hours and not understand a damned thing. Only bright spot is we got to visit the beer tent. For some reason, Germans had fun watching female soldiers drunk so I got majority of my beer free.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made May 21 at 2017 9:55 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 21 May 2017 09:55:42 -0400

I found during My period of Military service You actually wanted to go to the unit events at Your level. Often things above the level of Your immediate unit, not as much attendance for lower ranks but senior people NCOs and Officers plus mid level NCOs and Officers did attend. Often there was attendance for Officers esp it was pretty much command performance, You better be there.

I never found attending events to be that bad a thing, sometimes the contact out of the work setting was a good thing and esp as You advance in rank and deal with More Senior people anyway and have a chance to do so outside the official work setting. On unit level functions, I wouldn't miss them and its important to interact with the junior ranking enlisted people at those events. This can go a long way to helping build a unit spirit.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2017 8:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Jul 2017 08:16:33 -0400

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2017 2:04 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:04:07 -0400

Unfortunately ....Yes.

Its called intimidation and it goes against Army Values.

It happens all the time.

It does not support the idea of Selfless Service.

It poisons the value of the action needed.

Response by Cpl Charles Vadnais made Aug 3 at 2017 4:19 PM

Cpl Charles Vadnais — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 16:19:35 -0400

In this lowly Corporal's opinion, if you have to force anyone to attend a unit event, paid for or not, then you've failed to instill camaraderie in the ranks...

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Aug 3 at 2017 4:27 PM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 16:27:59 -0400

My two cents - You are attending the ball - either as a paying guest with your significant other - or as part of the many work details, in your ASU's. The choice is yours on how you attend.

This is the Military, Your personal choices are irrelevant - do not like it, get out - someone else will always take your place. YOU personally are not needed to make the military run.

Response by SPC John Decker made Aug 3 at 2017 4:36 PM

SPC John Decker — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 16:36:36 -0400

I'm curious about something. If this is a Unit-Military ball, where do the proceeds from the $20-$40 tickets wind up?

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Aug 3 at 2017 7:24 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 19:24:41 -0400

Story... when i was a young paratrooper the 1st Sgt discovered i didn't purchase savings bonds automatIcally every payday... apparently this prevented the CO from reporting 100% participation... apparently this reflected poorly on his leadership qualities... the 1st Sgt suggested that i stand at attention in the corner of his office & contemplate that...

It took me a while (i'm slow), then the light began to shine... i saw the error of my ways and amends were made.

No, you can't be forced to...

Response by SGT Philip Keys made Dec 27 at 2017 4:45 PM

SGT Philip Keys — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 16:45:43 -0500

If it's their free time and they don't want to go let them sit it out. It's a total bullshit 100% participation to make the command look good. Kills me that people in command positions believe the lie of 100% is better than the truth of we made them attend. Young troops with families might not have the funds or the baby sitters etc. Not to mention if you make them attend it's going to probably lower moral. Honesty over appearance!!!

Response by SPC David Willis made Dec 27 at 2017 4:49 PM

SPC David Willis — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 16:49:54 -0500

Nope, and the quickest way to have guys lose morale or es spirt de corp for the unit is to cram it down their throats.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2018 7:46 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Jan 2018 07:46:34 -0500

In my unit we have an alumni association started by a few of us. We are a fully operating registered not for profit. We ask unit members to help us raise money in forms of asking employers, friends, family, or anyone whom may wish to donate or looking for a tax write off. We do not make anyone do anything they don't wish. However, in the past we have been a very tight unit and individuals were excited to step up and jump in. We created events within our unit which raised money like pie in the face, base breakfasts, unit shirts, moral coins and memorabilia, etc.
We just had our 75th this past year and it was AMAZING! We decided to have a ball style formal and the turnout was unbelievably mind blowing. E6 and above gladly paid a higher price so we could help jr ranks with ticket prices. Several of us also sponsored a couple that didn't have the extra funds. Retirees came from all over the country and unit cohesion was literally second to none. I'm pretty sure the only ones who didn't attend were the people whom had prior engagements they couldn't miss.
I feel like if you care, love, and respect each other and your mission you find more willingness to want to be with each other more then just on the clock. The issue is you have to have good leadership, mentorship, and followership. From day one this unit I'm in now has pushed for grooming young troops from the start to understand what family is and making sure we all are there for each other. You can't have a well oiled machine running without all parts from start to finish working in sequence together.
I understand some folks getting upset about trying to force people to do things, but that usually just creates a bigger resistance. Make it fun getting everyone involved to where everyone feels like they are a part of the HUGE picture and then mandatory is a word that's not even spoken or needed to be implied.
I'm going on 18 years and I will be the very first one to admit times have changed. It didn't use to be as difficult to have as close to 100% turnout on every unit fiction. Generational changes happen and they happen rapidly. We must learn how to engage people in ways that trigger their desires to WANT to be involved. If your riding everyone's tail all day everyday the last thing those folks want is to be around the tail rider.
Also create events not just solely about drinking. Again, we live in a time where not everyone drinks so we create an environment where if your not drinking it's not frowned upon. There's nothing worse then being somewhere and feeling like you just don't fit in or belong because it's only centered around one thing.
So, mandatory fun on the clock like squadron play days/family days I can see. Off the clock unit brotherhood, the members should want to attend and have an environment that is overwhelmingly exciting to be a part of.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Feb 12 at 2018 11:19 AM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 11:19:00 -0500

A place of duty is a place of duty -- much as a weeks long field exercise... that said, they can't pinch you for $50, but they can for the cost of one meal (does 1 MRE still equal $15?) - just as if you were on said field exercise and they cut separate rats... be situationally aware and good luck picking and choosing which swords you fall on.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2018 11:31 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 11:31:08 -0500

I have been in this situation before. Generally the senior leadership put up the funds for the lower enlisted to attend at either no cost or a reduced cost. They try to force people to attend because the unit just sunk a bunch of money into making it happen and they don't want 7 people showing up. I did not attend the last one they were forcing people to attend, but be prepared for a backlash if you don't.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2018 11:53 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 11:53:57 -0500

This question covers a similar topic. In short they can't make you make pay. It would really be an unlawful order to say that you have to pay money to attend such an even. Has anyone asked if there is a means to aid soldiers that can't afford to pay the cost of a ticket? I have been in the Guard for a while but I have never seen a point where they made soldiers pay to attend such an event. Fifty dollars doesn't seen like a lot but money. I sure there would be someone in the unit that would be willing to assist.

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/can-a-superior-force-a-subordinate-to-buy-a-ticket-and-attend-a-military-unit-ball

Can a superior force a subordinate to buy a ticket and attend a military unit ball? | RallyPoint

Response by SSgt Dan Montague made Feb 12 at 2018 11:59 AM

SSgt Dan Montague — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 11:59:08 -0500

This happens sometimes at our Marine Corps balls. They get some fancy place and it costs an arm and leg to go. They can make it an appointed place of duty, however they cannot make you pay.
With that said, they will most likely make life hard on you for a week or so if you don't.
I didn't pay one year and was forced to go. I stood duty there and was fed some cheap meal from the kitchen.

Response by MSG Charles Turner made Feb 12 at 2018 1:33 PM

MSG Charles Turner — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:33:24 -0500

Dont believe so, but They normally get "everyone" on the military Ceremonies side as in having the "Event" be a Military "Dining In" (Military ONLY) or "Dining Out" (Military & Spouses). I had soldiers that could not swing it in their budgets and Command would not foot the bill. In some cases I would pay and in others we made $ to cover cost. Some Commanders would cover most of the cost with Discretionary Funds or "Cup and Flower" Fund. Back in the "Day" before the military Paid as well as it did now...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2018 1:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:53:31 -0500

They didn't break it down by rank? Usually at these things it's broken up and E1-E4 have the cheapest amount to pay, then E5-E6, E7-E9 and then officers and warrants and it increases as the ranks go up. Sounds like poor planning on fundraising honestly.

I haven't been to a unit ball since probably my first duty station. I think there was one at my last unit but I didn't go and I didn't hear a thing about it. They said 1SG wanted NCOs to come to him to explain why in that company but I never did and he never came up to me and asked why I wasn't there.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Feb 12 at 2018 2:01 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 14:01:33 -0500

We pretty much made it a place of duty as dining -ins only involve the troops. Chow on the other hand was optional, hence no cost if you didn't eat. The Commander and I paid for the NCO/ Soldier of the year for dining ins and they and their spouse or dates meals for dining outs.
$50.00 is pretty steep for chow, has anyone recommended buffet catering? I found this draws down the cost and makes it much more affordable for the dining -Ins.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Feb 12 at 2018 7:26 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 19:26:33 -0500

The military cannot force you to buy anything. You cannot be forced to attend dining in or out or balls. I cannot remember the reg. but if it is a real problem you can always ask any JAG for the reference.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 12 at 2018 8:43 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 20:43:12 -0500

1. NO they can't force you to eat. 2. Normally we broke it down by rank, with the lowest rank being the cheapest. 3. They can force you to show up if that is the place of duty. 4. If you have a death wish by all means refuse, instead of asking your 1SG or CSM about help/eating vs. showing up. Because your name will be engraved on both's shit list for as long as you are in that unit.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2018 8:19 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 20:19:18 -0500

Those balls are usually fun. Either because hanging out with your friends from work or because you get to watch those young lieutenants make real asses of themselves and that is even more fun to talk about at work. I recal my first aviation ball. I PCSed before we were allowed to have another. Thanks LT!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2018 1:18 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 01:18:51 -0400

No. To do so would be an ethics violation. However much 'political' pressure the command were to put on you as a senior leader, they are not authorized to force Soldiers to purchase tickets.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2018 8:10 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:10:12 -0400

Ok, maybe my standards are to high so someone pull me down if needed. I am in Italy we are having a Ball at an off post establishment with tiered prices by rank. All good so far. Now Soldiers who do not want to pay to attend are told that they will attend and be on detail. Now I really want to go to this Ball I like my unit but now the option has been given that females in the unit may wear a dress instead of their ASU's but males must be in ASU's. Is it just me or is that just completely wrong, I've seen it happen before and I refused to go to an event where anyone is showed preferential treatment because of their gender. We are all Soldiers and should dress accordingly at official military functions. Thoughts?

Response by SPC David Willis made Apr 12 at 2018 9:15 AM

SPC David Willis — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 09:15:02 -0400

CSMs who are railing against this question, I would argue its YOUR job to figure out why so many don't want to go and fix it. If soldiers would rather be stuck on a detail than have a meal and drinks (although rarely is the bar open...) there is a reason for that choice. Low ball attendance directly correlates with low unit morale usually stemming from poor leadership up to but not necessarily including the man in your position. Its very rarely a money thing but soldiers will say that because there will be less punishment than if you say something like "my leadership is all fucking worthless and Id rather be on a work detail than spend an evening around people I want to punch in the face with alcohol included in the mix." Also senior leadership needs to stop thinking they have the right to spend their soldiers money for them... that's absolutely not your job.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made May 23 at 2018 2:29 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Wed, 23 May 2018 14:29:07 -0400

I can't imagine they could force someone to buy a ticket. It may come back to bite her later.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2018 5:33 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 17:33:09 -0400

I don’t think they can

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Oct 13 at 2018 8:57 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 08:57:07 -0400

I read through a lot of this and all I could find with the exception of a few is most of you never answer the question. in addition you never explain why either way. MT No first of all it is something that was just dropped on this E-4 just arriving at the unit, no time to plan trying to get everything in order and the money can be an issue. Now Legally it could be a problem, Morally it is wrong, and a good leader would say to this young Soldier " if you can not make it to the ball okay you have plenty of time to plan for next year". If you chooses to go then it is a great way for you to meet the rest of the folks in the unit. If the upper chain of command makes it mandatory then as a good Junior leader you should be willing to help the Soldier out or take the hit for said Soldier. A little compassion should apply One of the hardest things to do is PCS to a new unit and then get ready for Mandatory fun. After having to jump through hoops to get ready for this event your attitude and desire to do what you would normally do would suck. I am okay with Mandatory fun but if a person actually has a good reason for not attending the so be it.

SGM Douglas Vidakovich Nice rendition of what was told to me when I PCS'ED to Germany LOL and my Dress uniform had not arrived yet all I had to wear was Duty Uniform's the delivery people were late with my HHG'S. 1 SGT. Said get on your best civilian cloths and be there I will leave a ticket at the door with you name on it. I was glad to go and it was a nice way to meet some folks that I later learned a lot from. Best PCS Welcome I ever had. JMTC

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2019 1:39 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:39:28 -0400

Your commander can order you to report to a designated place of duty in a designated duty uniform.
They cannot order you to purchase a ticket.
Don't expect to eat if you don't pay, though.
Be prepared to brown bag it.

Response by SGM Frank Marsh made Jun 30 at 2019 3:08 PM

SGM Frank Marsh — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 15:08:47 -0400

saw this scenario a number of times. hated to go myself. I would never force a subordinate into it. we were pressured from above to have 100% attendance. total bullshit, IMHO.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2019 7:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 19:34:28 -0400

A lot of folks here have selective reading skills....
The hard answer is “no”, he cant be made to go. But there’s more to look at
How new? As in, got to the unit last week new? I’d give him a bye. PCS is expensive, we all know that.
If he’s been there a month or more, well, things get more complicated. If he/she is a single Soldier in the barracks, time to hit the dry cleaners! They have plenty of money to spend.
Married Soldiers, on the other hand, need more understanding. Their financial situation can be much more delicate, especially if the Soldier is the only source of income. Having kids makes it more so. Even if the Soldier wants to go, usually the spouse does too. That means two tickets, plus a dress, hair, nails, and all that goes with it. Plus, if the Soldier has kids, that means hiring a babysitter for a few hours. What starts as only a 40 dollar ticket can run up into the hundreds of dollars in expenses.

I’ve gone to and go to every single one. I tell my Soldiers to go to at least one, so that they know what they’re missing if they never want to go to another one.

I tell my NCOs: You really should be there. A lot of commands start the “highly encouraged” mark at the E7 level. I think it needs to be lower. Anyone wearing stripes should attend. That’s where the precedent should start.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Oct 22 at 2019 6:21 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Tue, 22 Oct 2019 18:21:42 -0400

Difficult. Unless there is attendance roll call how will he know. If you can’t afford the cost, report situation to superior an or volunteer for mandatory position to be filled, like officer of guard etc. that makes you officially excused.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jan 15 at 2020 12:36 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Wed, 15 Jan 2020 12:36:55 -0500

Sir, forcing mandatory attendance to this function is traveling down a dark road. I have in the past bought tickets for young troops that actually didn't have the money at the time and I have seen CSM's waive (Most likely paid themselves)the cost for special circumstances. A young troop may have some money issues but if the troop is full of crap this is a bad start. There are work arounds for good troops but ones just refusing and making excuses are just asking for unofficial consequences down the road. I can speak from experience that as a SRNCO I have not wanted to attend many events but I went anyway and had a pretty good time. Also for having to dry clean a uniform, that should have already been done, your uniform should be ready to where at any time. The Soldiers first line leader needs to get involved and square the troop away before this becomes a bigger issue Sir.

Response by Landrew Usoalii S. made Feb 19 at 2020 10:22 PM

Landrew Usoalii S. — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 22:22:32 -0500

NONONONO! LEADERS NOW DAYS MAKES ME SICK TO EVN THINK THAT I WAS ONCE A LEADER. NO WONDER WHY MANY INDIVIDUALS ONLY SERVE ONE TERM LET ALONE DO STUPID/UNFORSAKEN STUNTS JUST TO GTFO! Bottom line say respectfully decline and explain the reasons. Good luck!

Response by CPT Wayne Price made Mar 2 at 2020 10:00 PM

CPT Wayne Price — Mon, 02 Mar 2020 22:00:17 -0500

Mandatory is pushing command too far.
CPT WaynePrice

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Apr 10 at 2020 6:45 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 06:45:50 -0400

The answer to this is no. However I will say that when I was in BNOC(Basic NCO Course), it was "suggested" by my instructor that I have on my person a Quartermaster coin during the dining in.

Response by PO1 Lyndon Thomas made Apr 10 at 2020 9:43 AM

PO1 Lyndon Thomas — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 09:43:27 -0400

That would be a resounding NO. This event however formal, is not Mandatory in any way.

Response by SSgt Rhonda James made Apr 10 at 2020 4:25 PM

SSgt Rhonda James — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:25:10 -0400

Hail NO! William Beaver! Part of why WE were accepted to SERVE was we had our OWN Minds! This holds true in my era 1975-1986 to your era! WE enlisted or got drafted to SERVE not to BE served!

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 20 at 2020 1:12 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 13:12:31 -0400

As for the uniform, yes they can inspect it anytime, it is intended to be serviceable at all times. Make you attend a function no. I can say that anytime a Soldier wanted to attend but did not have the funds the FRG always paid, in fact they often paid for many.

Response by TSgt Ernest Poulin made Jan 3 at 2021 7:33 PM

TSgt Ernest Poulin — Sun, 03 Jan 2021 19:33:25 -0500

I doubt it if it costs the individual. I suppose they'd have to call the ball MANDATORY for all of a group in order to force a member to purchase a ticket. Though I'd think the superior would have to pay for it for the member if the member claims it doesn't fit his/her budget. Like the Sgt Maj Bill Roy said, "no doubt [the superior] would face some wrath!" I'd run it by JAG if you're really unsure and it becomes an issue.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Apr 3 at 2023 5:07 PM

1SG John Highfill — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 17:07:14 -0400

no way strictly voluntary As a 1SG i would call the Soldier involved and if He / She wanted to go i’d help them out