Can Active Guard Reserve (AGR) and TPU (Reservists) be senior rated against each other?

2023-02-27T12:49:53-05:00

I am being evaluated against five other SSGs in my unit. I am AGR (Full-time Reservist), while the other five are TPU (Part-time Reservists). Is there any rule against rating TPUs and AGR NCOs together? I'm trying to find out because it doesn't seem appropriate to rate someone who works full-time every day, while the other NCOs are only part-time, which means that the workload for myself and the TPU reservists is vastly different. I looked in AR 623-3 (Evaluation Reporting System), but couldn't find anything in there. Any help is greatly appreciated. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL Lt Col Charlie Brown LTC Private RallyPoint Member CSM Mike Maynard SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SSG Private RallyPoint Member MSG Private RallyPoint Member

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Feb 27 at 2023 1:34 PM

2023-02-27T13:34:34-05:00

Who's chain of command do you belong? AGR's in my unit got EER's from either the First Sergeant or myself as Rater or Senior rater. If you are occupying a line item position in a line unit, you should be rated by you COC in the unit, whether you are full time or not.
Since your position is generally support for the unit and the part timers, how those soldiers view your performance is just as important as whether the full time staff thinks your wonderful or not.

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Feb 27 at 2023 2:16 PM

2023-02-27T14:16:15-05:00

Nowhere in the AR does it say you are being rated against any other soldier. You are being rated on your performance in the job you are doing.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Feb 27 at 2023 2:17 PM

2023-02-27T14:17:00-05:00

I would not think it is a big deal. You are AD, but the OTRS, I think that right term, is M Day but yet full time as a Technician. He would be in the S-3.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2023 2:28 PM

2023-02-27T14:28:33-05:00

I'm not HR but I'm not aware of a way to separate the profiles in EES. Also I would think this would work in your favor.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Feb 27 at 2023 3:08 PM

2023-02-27T15:08:43-05:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, you are being rated against your contemporaries for potential by your Senior Rater. Your rater only rates your performance. What your rating chain is doing is appropriate.

NCOs aren't really part-time in the truest sense of the word. A TPU SSG/SFC must accomplish all of the requirements for their Leadership position in 2 days. This requires pre-planning and work outside of UTAs, including those pesky conference calls. They must maintain contact with their assigned Soldiers, many who really don't want to be bothered during the month for the BN/BDEs' last minute takers. This is on top of self-development tasks. TPU Soldiers, especially SSG and SFCs are notorious for horrible work-life balance, thats why we have a leadership gap at that grade. They are choosing to grab 20 and go.

If you have true "part-time NCOs", you have a marginal 1SG/CDR. There is a happy balance between giving time away for free and having a TPU NCO working constantly in a reserve unit.

As you indicated to CPT Lawrence Cable, your rating scheme is appropriate. As a Plans NCOIC you should be rated by the Plans Officer (CPT) and Senior rated by the S-3 (MAJ) who also senior rates all the SSGs in the S3. My guess is that you have maybe 3 other SSG AGRs in your BN HQ (unless you count the subordinate units), none of which are senior rated by the S3 OIC.

Even if you could manage to be compared against the other SSG AGRs, would you really want to have your potential for positions of greater responsibility and future operational assignments compared to supply, medical or personnel folks? A TPU SSG in FUOPs is likely to never be an AGR OPS NCO, so I would agree with LTC Private RallyPoint Member, if you are not marginal compared to your peers, you come out ahead every time. Unless you are suggesting that a TPU SSG is not your peer, in which case this would be a different conversation.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Feb 27 at 2023 3:34 PM

2023-02-27T15:34:03-05:00

Unless there has been a significant change in the regs, no. I commanded an AC/RC unit, and I had only 1 rater & 1 senior rater profile.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2023 9:15 PM

2023-02-27T21:15:39-05:00

Yes, as a SSG you will be enumerated against all SSGs that rating chain rates.
That said, your NCOER will (should) be about how you meet the standards and expectations of your AGR position, and theirs will (should) be about how they meet the standards and expectations of their TPU positions.

It's not about who is responsible for more total work, it's about how well you meet or exceed the standards for what you are responsible for.

The difference here is, as an AGR you should have an AGR in your rating chain, (easier on staff than in a company) or have a letter of input provided by the AO to the TPU/MDAY rating chain, as the BN AO is by reg the full-time supervisor of all AGRs working in that BN every day of the month outside of drill weekend.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2023 10:57 PM

2023-02-27T22:57:44-05:00

I think it's already mentioned, but the way I've seen it done is the AGR's were typically rated by a different SR rater than TPUs. So for instance TPU NCO's would be rated by the 1SG and Sr rated by the Platoon leaders, and reviewed by the commander. Then the AGR's would be rated by the 1SG and Sr rated by the Commander.

So unless the commander's profile covered other NCO's than the AGR's they typically didn't cross.

Regarding Most Qualified, Highly Qualified, Qualified, and Not Qualified. I had a quantifiable process (or at least documentable process).

Most Qualified was already profile limited, and never handed out unless someone deserved it.

Highly Qualified from me meant that someone had to check all the boxes and go above and beyond on at least two or more of categories.

Qualified meant the rated soldier basically didn't lift a finger to prepare their evaluation, I had to do it for them from scratch and without a negative counseling or negative administrative action I couldn't give them a referred eval. So they got the bare minimum of "Qualified".

Not Qualified meant they were usually flagged in some way, and chances are I was already lining up my ducks to get them chaptered.

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To get "qualified" from me from someone who put in effort to prepare their Evaluation was rare. Basically, if they couldn't come up with good bullet points for 2 or more categories with a lot of prodding then I guess they really are bare minimum.

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I guess this is a question of my standards. Am I too nice? I am using a method I was brought up in. It didn't make it up on my own.

I understand another way to approach it is to not give out Highly Qualified unless someone meets the standard of Most Qualified, but because of profile limitations HQ's are restricted mathematically.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2023 1:56 AM

2023-02-28T01:56:20-05:00

Absolutely. You are being rated and senior rated not AC, AGR, TPU, IMA, etc against each other but against all of your peers of the same grade for the duration of that rater and senior rater’s career. Unlike other services that rate you by year our profiles are built over our careers. Some raters and senior raters are biased, some pool though it’s against the regulations (yes I said it), but others do the right thing and are fair. Unfortunately not everyone who deserves the top box will receive it based on population, quality of peers, or poor profile management.

I see your argument and I have seem AGRs argue that they should be rated by all AGRs as TPUs do not know what they do on a daily basis. It’s unrealistic as soon as you get away from a company or go up in rank a little your chain would be at another unit and unable to see you on a daily basis as well. That is why you do your support form. It’s supposed to be a conversation with rated, rater, and senior rater. Does that always happen? No. But write your support form as you know best of what you did. You cannot control what your peers do. You can only control what you do and quality of work.

Do your best, work with your chain of command, control what you can.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Feb 28 at 2023 8:35 AM

2023-02-28T08:35:08-05:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, after reading your responses I am getting a better sense of your issue. You have repeatedly suggested that you do "more work" than a TPU. But like SGM Private RallyPoint Member pointed out, it is how you accomplish the work you are assigned and if you go the extra mile. You are full-time so you would be assigned more work and have more opportunities to show how you are ready for positions of greater responsibility. The downside is you also have more opportunities to show how you are not. Conversely, a TPU "has" to do work 2 days a month, but it is easy for them to go the extra mile if they sacrifice their personal time to accomplish more work they are not necessarily responsible for such as volunteering for SAVs, additional duties, or range training.

Expectations are important. If you do not know what they want you to do to get top blocked, that is a problem you have to address with your senior rater and their rater.

Consider this: do you get your work done on time every time? Qualified.
What have you done to self-develop?
In staff sections, above and beyond is pretty easy to accomplish, are you a resource for the subordinate company commanders, or are you a tasking center?