Can an Officer who married an Enlisted Soldier get into trouble?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 20:04:39 -0400

An officer met an enlisted soldier and they began dating not knowing they both served.
They choose to keep military affiliation to themselves in the beginning. When they finally discussed it they already really liked each other and since they were in different battalions, didn’t see an issue with it and continued to date. Recently they got married.

Response by SSG Steven Borders made Oct 13 at 2020 8:20 PM

SSG Steven Borders — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 20:20:26 -0400

I will point you to Army Pubs. AR 3481-35 Relationships Between Soldiers of Different Ranks

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN3481_p600_35_WEB_FINAL.pdf

ARN3481_p600_35_WEB_FINAL.pdf

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2020 8:22 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 20:22:09 -0400

Not an issue in the Reserves

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Oct 13 at 2020 8:33 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 20:33:35 -0400

As an SFC, you could have & should have checked into it. After all you have to counsel younger troops. NG have slightly different thoughts.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2020 9:27 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 21:27:29 -0400

Ask a JAG Lawyer. They will be the SMEs on this one.

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Oct 13 at 2020 10:57 PM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Tue, 13 Oct 2020 22:57:44 -0400

How can either one of them not know they both served? The BS meter is hitting the red zone.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2020 4:49 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 04:49:56 -0400

The answer depends on what component and what branch of service each are in. But, as a Senior NCO I am surprised you don't know where to find the answer for this for Army

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2020 8:27 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 08:27:22 -0400

Once married the military cant tell you to get a divorce. However, both parties can still be held accountable for fraternization from before being married and there could be an investigation. If there is an investigation just CYA.

Response by Maj John Bell made Oct 14 at 2020 9:42 AM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 09:42:50 -0400

Irresponsible. As a 2ndLt part of our liberty brief was "ask early and ask often" if she is 18 and older and if she is in the military or a military dependent.

Response by Lt Col Paul Maxwell made Oct 14 at 2020 9:48 AM

Lt Col Paul Maxwell — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 09:48:21 -0400

Hard to believe neither of them revealed, or detected in the other, military bearing, behaviors, affiliations, etc.
but generally speaking, if an officer/enlisted relationship develops...and they are not within rating chains/same unit structure, it is tolerated/acceptable/ fine. That is why there are Literally dozens of regulations and guidelines about dual career military families, etc.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Oct 14 at 2020 11:58 AM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 11:58:31 -0400

Only if one cheats on the other. Also, one can not supervisor the other. I believe one will get full BAS and the other will get single BAS. Congratulations and the best of luck to them.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2020 1:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 13:41:34 -0400

From what I always understood is that if someone became an officer after the marriage, it was fine. I'm looking in AR 600-20 on Fraternization as it was just updated. This is from the AR:

(2) Dating, shared living accommodations other than those directed by operational requirements, and intimate or sexual relationships between officers and enlisted personnel, or NCOs and junior enlisted Soldiers. This prohibition does not apply to the following:
(a) Marriages between an officer and an enlisted member or an NCO and a junior enlisted Soldier. However, when evidence of fraternization between an officer and enlisted member or an NCO and a junior enlisted Soldier prior to their marriage exists, their marriage does not preclude appropriate command action based on the prior fraternization. Commanders have a wide range of responses available including counseling, reprimand, order to cease a relationship prior to marriage, reassignment, administrative action, or adverse action. Commanders must carefully consider all of the facts and circumstances in reaching a disposition that is appropriate. Generally, the commander should take the minimum action necessary to ensure that the needs of good order and discipline are satisfied.
(b) Situations in which a relationship that complies with this policy would move into noncompliance due to a change in status of one of the members (for instance, a case where two junior enlisted members are dating and one is subsequently commissioned or selected to be a WO, commissioned officer, or NCO). In relationships where one of the enlisted members has entered into a program intended to result in a change in his or her status from enlisted to officer or junior enlisted Soldier to NCO, the couple must terminate the relationship permanently or marry within 1 year of the date of the appointment or the change in status occurs.

It seems to be up to the command based on this about any counseling or reprimand - because officers and enlisted aren't supposed to be dating each other. To me, they violated the fraternization policy before they got married.

This just sounds really weird. How the hell do you date someone and not talk about your job within the first month at the least? The fact is that before they got married, they knew one is an officer and one is enlisted. I don't understand how their commands didn't know because it should have been stopped while dating.

Although now I see you're Guard.

(c) Personal relationships between members of the ARNG or USAR, when the relationship primarily exists due to civilian acquaintanceships, unless the individuals are on active duty (other than annual training), on full-time National Guard Duty (FTNGD) (other than annual training), or serving as a dual status military technician.
(d) Personal relationships between members of the RA and members of the ARNG or USAR when the relationship primarily exists due to civilian association and the USAR member is not on active duty (other than annual training), on FTNGD (other than annual training), or serving as a dual status military technician.
(e) Soldiers and leaders share responsibility for ensuring that these personal relationships do not interfere with good order and discipline. Commanders will ensure that personal relationships that exist between Soldiers of different grades emanating from their civilian careers will not influence training, readiness, or personnel actions.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Oct 14 at 2020 1:54 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 13:54:46 -0400

The National Guard has an exception to policy covering this type of situation. In most simple terms the fraternization policy only applies to Guard members when they are under UCMJ. If said officer and NCO kept their relationship private when they were at drill or activated, then they played it smart. Once married they cannot be discriminated against. The officer and NCO should never serve in the same chain of command.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2020 4:09 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 16:09:21 -0400

You are showing as in the Army Guard - so this is not a clear cut issue as if you were on AD. That being said - I have to agree that you are not really giving the full story here. Are you in the same Unit - at the same Armory, do you have the same commander? If so, you may have problems - either way - now that you are married - you have to disclose it to both of your chains of command and face the fall out.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2020 11:23 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Oct 2020 23:23:23 -0400

In 1995 I was stationed in Korea and one of our battalion commanders was married to a Master Sergeant. It caused a bit of concern at first for the new brigade commander until he was told they got married when both were enlisted in the late 1970s and then he obtained a commission and she stayed an NCO. They had kids together and the army was very good about making sure they were always stationed together. But whenever they went to some new duty station there was always that initial "uh oh" moment.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Oct 15 at 2020 1:50 AM

MAJ Javier Rivera — Thu, 15 Oct 2020 01:50:48 -0400

Surprised a SFC is not aware of standing policy, nor where to find it.

Pssttt... little secret: AR 600-20 & PAM 600-35.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2020 12:51 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Oct 2020 12:51:17 -0400

Yes both will get in trouble if the commands finds out. This goes for all branches of service and even if you are enlisted and date or marry an officer from a different country it is punishable.