Can any rank of NCO administer/grade an APFT?

2015-04-25T22:42:53-04:00

No where in FM 7-22 does it state what grade of NCO can administer/grade an APFT. Now, it seems to me that if you have a lower ranking NCO administer/grade your APFT, then the Chain of Command always has a little fit. Now if NCO's can grade and officer, why can't (let's say) a corporal grade somebody with more rank? Most of us were sent to the promotion board or promoted to Corporal instead of Specialist because they had faith and trust in us. I work at a joint unit with mainly other branches and we DO NOT do organized APFT's, it's just whenever I'm able to get one done. What are your thoughts on a higher ranking NCO/Officer simply grabbing another person of lower rank to go out and conduct an APFT, especially if you aren't always able to muster up a whole team of people to conduct/administer one by the books, as in my situation?

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Apr 25 at 2015 10:45 PM

2015-04-25T22:45:16-04:00

AF has E3's grade PT tests. Rarely are they assigned to the unit they are grading. Integrity First!!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 11:01 PM

2015-04-25T23:01:20-04:00

Why not. A service member will also take additional tests, so what does one test by a CPL mean. Also trust is given as well as received.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 11:05 PM

2015-04-25T23:05:13-04:00

I think that training belong to NCOs it don't matter if it is a corporal or a sergeant training is NCO business

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 26 at 2015 12:12 AM

2015-04-26T00:12:12-04:00

There are no rank requirements.

n. Administration of the APFT.
(1) The administration of the APFT requires four duty positions: an officer in charge or NCO in charge, event supervisor, event scorer, and support personnel (such as time keeper or demonstrator).

(2) Soldiers administering the APFT may perform multiple duties during the test event. The restriction is the event scorer may not be the event timer or Event supervisor. However, the event supervisor may be an event timer. The minimum number of Soldiers to administer the APFT is two (except when only one Soldier is receiving the APFT test:
Minimum of two Soldiers to administer APFT plus an additional individual to hold the tested Soldier’s feet during the sit-up event).
(3) Administrators of the APFT must be Soldiers currently serving in the military to include the RC, senior ROTC cadets, and senior USMA cadets. The following personnel are prohibited from administering the APFT: Civilians, retired Soldiers, and IRR Soldiers who are not on tours of duty for 12 or more consecutive calendar days for annual training, active duty training, or active duty for special work. One exception to this paragraph is granted to Soldiers in
isolated locations (such as an embassy) where there exists an insufficient number of Soldiers to administer the APFT.
In this case, military members from other Services or civilians, who are working in the Soldier’s chain of command, may administer the APFT after reviewing all requirements of administering the APFT outlined in FM 7–22, appendix

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 6:05 AM

2015-04-26T06:05:13-04:00

It doesn't matter who grades an APFT. I always "borrowed" NCOs from my sister companies to grade my company when I was a 1SG. I did the same thing when I was a BN CSM, I used NCOs from different companies to grade other companies. It's not that I didn't trust the NCOs it's just less room for someone crying the APFT was unfair etc. I used the highest ranking NCO as the NCOIC and he would sign all the 705s and 5500s.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 26 at 2015 8:19 AM

2015-04-26T08:19:41-04:00

The idea is to reduce the perception of a conflict of interest. Hence the push back from higher, especially if there is a large variation in ranks.

However, you either completed the interval (sit up / push up / pull up) or you did not complete the interval.

Having an SOP that outlines who the "Training Officer/NCO" is fixes this. CPT X & SGT Y are the Officer & NCO in writing. One does the "main" APFT, the other does the "make up" APFT, which means that they run for each other.

Response by SGT Larry Michael Bleckler II made Apr 26 at 2015 12:00 PM

2015-04-26T12:00:23-04:00

When I was in the Army as a corporal maxed out my PT and I was able to grade higher ranking NCO's and officer's and if they didn't make the grade for their age they were a no-go I did catch a lot of flak but fair and correct is the way I did it and I expected nothing less from them.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 3:01 PM

2015-04-26T15:01:30-04:00

Promote only qualified personnel to NCO. Stop promoting soldiers simply because you have no reason not to but because they eptomize the Nco creed, have leadership abilities and lead by example. Once that happens it won't matter what rank of NCO you are, you can be trusted and your judgement never questioned by anyone. Currently we have the army our NCO's have trained. We have promoted too soon without reason or cause only to fill up space and look at where we are. 20 years ago an E5 SGT was God to his troops and his integrity unchallenged. Now? I am my BNs PT NCOIC and I train every competent and APFT passing NCO to conduct a fair and by the reg APFT. I will not allow higher ranking NCOS and Officers to intimidate my graders and when someone fails my APFTs no one has ever questioned the administration of the test. Be Confident, Competent and Consistent and your rank will never be an issue. My opinion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 3:18 PM

2015-04-26T15:18:27-04:00

I am a Non Commissioned Officer - I can and have graded APFT's for all ranks. I have done this fairly and to standard as well as regulation.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Apr 26 at 2015 3:19 PM

2015-04-26T15:19:35-04:00

No rank requirement to be a grader for an APFT. The NCO'S need to know the grading requirements for each event which should be discussed by the NCOIC.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Apr 26 at 2015 3:23 PM

2015-04-26T15:23:58-04:00

Home > Army Physical Fitness Test > Duties of Test Personnel

Duties of Test Personnel

From: FM 7-22 October 2012
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DUTIES OF TEST PERSONNEL

RESPONSIBILITIES

The Army Physical Fitness Test personnel must be familiar with all aspects of administration of the APFT. Supervision of Soldiers and laying out the test area are essential duties. The following test personnel are recommended to conduct an APFT: an OIC and/or NCOIC, an event supervisor(s), a timer, a back-up timer, an event scorer(s), a demonstrator(s), and support personnel. The minimum number of test personnel required to administer the APFT is four: an OIC/NCOIC, an event supervisor, an event scorer, and support personnel to hold the Soldiers’ feet on the sit-up event.

The OIC and the NCOIC are responsible for the administration of the APFT. Responsibilities include:

Preparation for push-up event (after reading instructions and before test start).
Administration of the test.
Conduct of recovery upon completion of the test.
Procurement of all necessary equipment and supplies.
Arrangement and layout of test area.
Training of event supervisors, scorers, timer, back-up timer demonstrators, and support personnel.
Ensure tests are properly administered and that events are explained, demonstrated, and scored according to standard.
When test personnel required to administer the APFT are limited, the OIC/NCOIC may perform the duties of an event demonstrator and/or back-up timer.
Reports results of test.
The event supervisors are responsible for administration of test events. Responsibility includes the following:

Administers one or more test events.
Ensures necessary equipment is on hand for each event(s).
Reads APFT event instructions.
Conducts APFT event demonstration.
When test personnel required to administer the APFT are limited, the event supervisor(s) may perform the duties of the timer.
Supervises event scoring to standard.
Answers questions on scoring discrepancies and informs the OIC/NCOIC.
The event scorers are responsible for scoring events to standard. Responsibility includes the following:

Enforces test standards.
Records the correct number of repetitions in the raw score block on DA Form 705.
Records initials in initials box on DA Form 705.
Performs other duties assigned by the OIC or the NCOIC.
Receives training conducted by the OIC/NCOIC to ensure scoring is to standard.
The demonstrators are responsible for demonstrating the push-up and sit-up events to standard. Responsibility includes the following:

Assists the event supervisor by demonstrating push-ups and sit-ups to standard during the reading of event instructions.
Performs other duties assigned by the OIC or the NCOIC.
Receives training, conducted by the OIC/NCOIC, to ensure demonstration of push-ups and sit-ups are to standard.
Timers and back-up timers are responsible for properly timing the push-up, sit-up, and 2-mile run events.

Support personnel assist in preventing unsafe acts to ensure smooth operation of the APFT. The use of support personnel depends on local policy and unit standing operating procedures. For example, support personnel may perform the duties of the holder during the sit-up event. Medical support on site is not required unless specified by local policy. The OIC and/or the NCOIC should have a plan for medical support (if required). No rank specified

Response by CPL Butch Hogan made Apr 28 at 2015 11:42 AM

2015-04-28T11:42:36-04:00

As a corporal I graded APFT, but that was back in the 90's ... a lot of it is about who do you trust to perform the task correctly and to standards.

Response by CSM Donald McGlasson made Apr 28 at 2015 11:55 AM

2015-04-28T11:55:48-04:00

Hopefully your "Chain of Command", especially the NCOs has properly trained and mentored to the point that rank has no bearing for grader or tested in this case. I'm not so far removed from active duty (2013) that I can't understand the issue but build from bottom up and soon this issue would be mute. Trust in the Army Values and it's continued reinforecment. By the book, no test is administered with just one person. Let's be clear, if you feel you have a problem the commander must over watch and always their responsibility.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 12:06 PM

2015-04-28T12:06:21-04:00

I think that any rank of NCO should be able to grade the AFPT as any other senior NCO or officer.

Response by SSG Brian L. made Apr 28 at 2015 12:22 PM

2015-04-28T12:22:53-04:00

Any NCO can grade an APFT. I used to get bumped from grading because I stuck too close to the regs. Some of the officers I'd grade who wanted to max their pushups wouldn't even come close to breaking the plane and their lower body never moved along with the upper body. I was "counseled" for grading a LTC starting with "zero... zero... zero... zero" until I stopped him, explained what he was doing wrong and sent him to the back of the line for retesting. He wasn't too happy with me after that and neither was the rest of the staff.

Response by SGT Irving Salsbury made Apr 28 at 2015 12:23 PM

2015-04-28T12:23:47-04:00

Am NCO is the backbone of the military. They can grade anyone, as they have what the military is looking for. Regardless of personal statue, which is used when selecting, an NCO has an obligation to perform accordingly when asked or volunteered.

I gladly administered many of them while in the Navy and Army and felt an honor to do so...

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Apr 28 at 2015 12:58 PM

2015-04-28T12:58:54-04:00

If you can not trust an NCO to count repetitions than what can you trust the NCO to do.

Response by SPC Matthew Neel made Apr 28 at 2015 1:06 PM

2015-04-28T13:06:22-04:00

I believe that a Non Commissioned Officer is a Non Commissioned Officer. In fact I would prefer a CPL grade a higher ranking NCO/Officer's APFT. Often in my experience NCO's and such get the good old boy system when it comes to APFT standards. CPL's are often pissed off about this and will hold the NCO's to the same standard they hold the lower enlisted. In fact, I would go as far to say the NCO's and the Officer's should take the APFT with the lower enlisted of their unit and have NCO's from an outside unit grade their APFT's to prevent the sort of favoritism we have all seen.

Just a few thoughts from a 6 year vet. I know when I was a CPL I was on fire about the APFT and determined to hold the NCO's to the same standard's they held us to because I saw what some of the SSGT's and SFC's APFT scores were and then I watched their performance during PT. Joe's aren't dumb. They know what's going on. I used to have a 1SG that would just walk into the training room and fill out an APFT card and then give it to the Training Room Guy. The guy fell out of BDE runs (Which we all know are so slow that sometimes you actually stop moving) yet always had around a 270 on his APFT.

Response by SSG Daniel Miller made Apr 28 at 2015 1:08 PM

2015-04-28T13:08:33-04:00

This is in no way all-inclusive, but senior NCOs and officers at and above senior O-3 don't care who grades them, because more often than not, they only need a signature on a fabricated PT card. While they may be in shape and capable of the 270 they've maintained for 5 straight years, regardless of never participating in unit PT, it is simply less of a strain on their schedules to have a battle buddy (I use the term loosely here) sign a card that represents an APFT that never occurred. So, in a shorter response to the question, it doesn't matter the rank of the grader, so long as the grader and test-taker understand and respect the difference between rank and authority. Rank is what gives one superiority over another. Authority is what the commander grants to the APFT graders, and the graders' ability and judgment should be treated as such.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 1:09 PM

2015-04-28T13:09:02-04:00

An NCO is just that. If you don't trust them why make them NCOs? Used to see this a lot - treating E5s like jr enlisted. Score the Apft.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Apr 28 at 2015 1:16 PM

2015-04-28T13:16:36-04:00

I had my training NCO grade and usually had the 275 and above NCO assist. I graded the training NCO and the NCO's that assisted them. The Commander and I graded the Officers and The officers supervised when it was my turn to be graded.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Apr 28 at 2015 1:18 PM

2015-04-28T13:18:19-04:00

Are these NCO's despite their rank not supposed to be in that position because the unit thought they were ready and trustworthy enough to hold the position of an NCO be it JR NCO or not? What issues could possibly arise from a Jr NCO evaluating anyone? I for one held most all positions as en E-5 to include PLT SGT.If the chain feels the soldier is incompetent then they should really ask them selves why are they promoting incompetent soldiers?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 1:25 PM

2015-04-28T13:25:57-04:00

A graders job is just that, to grade, Did they do the repetition by the regs? After that, and for all discrepancies, the NCOIC steps in. And at that point it becomes a rank over authority situation, because the NCOIC is not a SSG or a SFC, they are a direct representative of the commander.

Response by CW3 Cliff Blizzard made Apr 28 at 2015 1:32 PM

2015-04-28T13:32:32-04:00

I think the lower ranking NCO could be intimidated

Response by SFC Dwayne Gilson made Apr 28 at 2015 1:41 PM

2015-04-28T13:41:43-04:00

Yes any NCO can grade an APFT

Response by SGM Reginald Thompson made Apr 28 at 2015 1:44 PM

2015-04-28T13:44:43-04:00

My Platoon Sergeant training our Platoon (E1-E7, and our Platoon Leader)how to grade an APFT. As well as how to conduct the APFT (IAW the FM and Unit Policy). If you're a Corporal and you have X number of Soldiers, you should be able to conduct an APFT. Now most Units would rather use SSGs and above. But my answer is and will always be "any rank of a NCO can grade an APFT." Sorry to say that there are some Corporals and Sergeants out there who are more responsible than some of our Staff Sergeants and above. We all know who they are!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 1:46 PM

2015-04-28T13:46:33-04:00

This must be a new problem, because I have never heard someone complain about the rank of an NCO grader. I graded dozens of APFTs in Ranger school when I was a corporal (over twenty years ago).

I suppose the real issue is one that the CSM hints at with his sound advice. It avoids even the appearance of finger smudging when you get some graders from the unit next door.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 1:50 PM

2015-04-28T13:50:41-04:00

I think if the chain of command has an issue with a SGT grading an APFT, there are bigger issues.
If the NCO leadership (squad leader, PSG), says that SGT is trained on administering an APFT, that should be the end of it.

Response by SFC Jorge Borboa made Apr 28 at 2015 1:55 PM

2015-04-28T13:55:21-04:00

All of the graders will be an extension of the NCO in charge of conducting the APFT. They would have been briefed about the standards, even though it would be redundant it is necessary that the regulation is always pulled out for the training of the instructors and for the actual APFT. A good strong NCO will NOT allow graders to be influenced or even questioned. That is why the NCOIC is also an additional eye on the entire situation especially when an influential person is being graded or if some obvious bobbing for apple type push-ups are observed.

The comment from the CSM is right on point. It is better to have NCO's from other units. There isn't much complaining or influence involved.

As far as the having someone grab you for PT in the situation you mention is an easy fix or two. 1. Make sure the person in charge of conducting PT has it scheduled even if its just you. 2. You should have regularly scheduled PT sessions iaw the schedule you submit to your HQ or S-1 (regardless of when you do it) and then you can refer to the schedule.
Ex. Sir, SGT...I am already scheduled to do PT @15:00 this afternoon, or I already ran this morning @0500. Maybe tomorrow if your up for an early run, swim, etc...

It sort of happened to me once. People were complaining that I wasn't at the scheduled PT formation (06:30) but I was running about 10-15 miles beginning at 0500. MY PSG at the time told me to join the formation, I asked for an extension to the 0900 formation to finish the run. That was an emphatic NO. So then I suggested who ever was complaining to join me at 0500. I didn't have any volunteers and the crowd (someone within my platoon) stopped complaining.

RLTW,
Army Medic now in Nursing School

Response by MSG Brian Allen made Apr 28 at 2015 1:57 PM

2015-04-28T13:57:06-04:00

See CSM Oldsen's comment..

As a First Sergeant, and a CSM pro tempore, I worked diligently to promote and support the authority and responsibility of my Jr. Noncoms. Saying that a young Corporal or Sergeant did not have the maturity, responsibility, integrity or competence to grade something as simple as an APFT/PRT, was saying in the same breath that you did not have trust and confidence in your NCO Corps.. Yet, these are the same young people we saddle with the responsibility of leading Soldiers in direct action against our enemies... Nonsensical.

As a young Buck Sergeant I had the privilege of grading and failing a Brigadier General, our Corps Artillery commander, for improper push ups. Luckily, and to their credit, I had an amazing CSM who stood behind me and an excellent Commanding General who knew that I had fairly and accurately upheld the standard.

In short, teach your young NCOs the standard. Show them the standard. Demand that they enforce the standard - and rank will become immaterial.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 2:02 PM

2015-04-28T14:02:00-04:00

SGT

I think NCO's are able to grade APFT's. But I recommend that each post set up a detachment to grade APFT's for all units on post, this will stop the good old boy system. I would recommend that each post use some of their wounded warriors for this tasking. This might help the would warriors to feel like they are still part of the Army and help with their recovery as well. For National Guard and Reserve unit's should be required to be graded by a different unit. I would say that it should be NCO's from a different battalion so reduce the good old boy system. I also would recommend that the graders to be in PT uniform so the soldiers being graded don't try to bully the grader.

Response by SGT Forrest Perez made Apr 28 at 2015 2:06 PM

2015-04-28T14:06:26-04:00

I was not a high rank of a non-commissioned officer, but in my old company the NCO's from my platoon would grade platoon PT tests for other sections. My 1sg would sign off on it,we didn't have any corporals all of us were E-5 or above

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 2:09 PM

2015-04-28T14:09:35-04:00

Any NCO rank can grade an APFT. Senior leaders should make it a point to put junior leaders in charge of APFTs. Its our job to develop the junior leaders. The only time it would be an issue is if that senior tries to intimidate the junior leader into not following standards.

Response by SFC Charles S. made Apr 28 at 2015 2:11 PM

2015-04-28T14:11:34-04:00

For as long as I know any NCO can Grade a PT Test. SGT to CSM, we even had some Corporals Grading when we did BN PT tests.

Response by CPT Jason Torpy made Apr 28 at 2015 2:12 PM

2015-04-28T14:12:49-04:00

No. They're all basically incapable, officers too. Some people simply grade the APFT and some people carry out their sadistic control fetishes. It's not rank dependent. (mostly joking)
The real solution is to eliminate the 'junior NCO' rank and make all E-4s into non-NCO corporals. OR real-NCO corporals, one or the other. Silly to have a split rank.

Response by CW5 Michael Scheller made Apr 28 at 2015 2:21 PM

2015-04-28T14:21:22-04:00

FM 7-22 calls the person the Scorer and gives no guidance on grade including the term NCO. Thus the scorer may be of any grade.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 2:23 PM

2015-04-28T14:23:41-04:00

There is no regulatory requirement as to the rank of the scorer.
A-12. The event scorers are responsible for scoring events to standard. Responsibility includes the following:
 Enforces test standards.
 Records the correct number of repetitions in the raw score block on DA Form 705.
 Records initials in initials box on DA Form 705.
 Performs other duties assigned by the OIC or the NCOIC.
 Receives training conducted by the OIC/NCOIC to ensure scoring is to standard.

The NCOIC and OIC are responsible for ensuring all scorers understand the standard and grade accordingly. People have their own issues with rank and intimidation, that is their stuff to worry about. I find most people do not grade to standard because they do not place themselves where the FM states-
During the push-up event, scorers sit or kneel 3 feet from the Soldier’s left or right shoulder at a 45-degree angle.
During the sit-up event, the scorer kneels or sits 3 feet from the Soldier’s left or right hip. The scorer’s head should be even with the Soldier’s shoulder when he is in the vertical (up) position.
People love to add to the FM based on their previous experiences.

Response by SFC Rollie Hubbard made Apr 28 at 2015 2:31 PM

2015-04-28T14:31:38-04:00

If you are detailed to be a grader then yes a Cpl and above can grade APFT.

Response by MAJ Keira Brennan made Apr 28 at 2015 2:36 PM

2015-04-28T14:36:50-04:00

I retired in 2012 and know things have changed. But I seem to recall that TRADOC's AR 350-2 spells out what and WHO you need for a Record APFT. What I know was there had to be an OIC/NCOIC An NCO supervisor - a timer, a scorer, and soldiers for the test (including holding feet). I think any E4> , ROTC Cadet, or Academy Cadet can "score" the repetitions if they have been demonstrated and ARE SUPERVISED.

I'm curious to hear if this is still accurate.

Response by SGT Alfred (Bill) Trolinger made Apr 28 at 2015 2:42 PM

2015-04-28T14:42:38-04:00

When I was a SGT\E-5 I was the company training SGT and was in charge of all company type training including the APFT and I signed the 705s and the 5500s, and when a score came by me that I thought was not right (because of the persons abilities) I would have that person retested the following month! Also It didn't bother anyone when a lower ranking NCO did the testing even an the officiers, if the grader didn't do his job right he didn't do any grading again!

Response by SFC Timothy AllBee made Apr 28 at 2015 2:43 PM

2015-04-28T14:43:27-04:00

I am an NCO for the late 80's and I believe that CPL and above can grade a APFT to scale because NCO's are held to our creed. Once you drop any part of that creed you drop to Corps, trust in your fellow NCO's.

Response by SGM Chris Kaukali made Apr 28 at 2015 2:52 PM

2015-04-28T14:52:27-04:00

I've had this issue come up numerous times. I worked with the training NCO and the Commander to come up with a unit policy on the APFT. Here were some of the things we implemented so that everyone was fairly assessed:

Multiple APFT's were on our training schedule; two per calender year and two "make-up" APFT's. It came out to roughly one per quarter. Everyone had to take it during a scheduled event. Anyone who did not show for a scheduled APFT and did not have a valid excuse accepted by the Commander was flagged if they had not passed within the previous 12 months.

Graders were selected from each section, at least one NCO per section. They received training to standard and were supervised by the NCOIC/Training NCO, and were "tested" for consistency in grading. Each grader must have passed the APFT prior to administering/grading an event.

During the APFT, Soldiers taking the APFT were instructed not to have any grader who was in their direct line of supervision grading their event, thus the one NCO from each section policy came into play.

These were just a few ideas that we implemented and were, for the most part successful.

Response by SSG Thomas Cole made Apr 28 at 2015 3:22 PM

2015-04-28T15:22:40-04:00

Any rank can grade a PT PROVIDED the FM is followed. I remember going to Drill Sgt School and failing the initial PT Test. I've never failed a PT Test in my career. Apparently I've been doing push-ups wrong since AIT at every unit I've been assigned to. Units develop old habits or their own interpretations and not the right way to do things. That all being said. I would frown on a Private or a SPC grading me even if they were following the FM to the letter. It's just notnot a good practice...

Response by SFC Robert Miller made Apr 28 at 2015 3:33 PM

2015-04-28T15:33:32-04:00

I feel that any NCO is capable of grading an APFT. If they can't they should not be wearing the stripes. The standards should be the same as any NCOES standard nothing more or less.

Response by MSG Anthony Foster made Apr 28 at 2015 3:49 PM

2015-04-28T15:49:32-04:00

As long as the standards are maintained does it matter if you are a CPL or a CSM I don't care who grades the AFPT as long as the standards are met, also I have seen senior NCO's and Officers making sure they had a passing score to maintain NCOER or OER
. make a comment end up on shit detail.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Apr 28 at 2015 3:49 PM

2015-04-28T15:49:12-04:00

Whenever I took the PRT/PFT in the Corps, we normally had our training section doing the score keeping and overseeing of the events. Nobody in the section had anything to do with it except as a participant. Normally we had Jr. NCOs at each event with a Gunny monitoring the event. Sometimes you might spot a 2nd Lt. When I took the APFT it was while I was in the Army National Guard. We monitored our own since it was more difficult to get outsiders to monitor the program. Usually the members of the staff oversaw the events. The Jr. NCOs were at every station and the training officer monitored the session. They were part of the unit, but not a part of our section. On a couple of occasions just prior to going to Iraq, we did our own monitoring. I am not sure why, but we had the APFT on two occasions. Make up or do-overs were done as needed.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Apr 28 at 2015 4:14 PM

2015-04-28T16:14:44-04:00

Can any rank of NCO grade an APFT? The answer is a whopping NO.

Through my years in the Military I have seen too many occasions where the APFT has been Pencil whipped to death. I even had one person say they were not beyond doing so.

I believe you need to have a consistent record of passing the APFT, a good tool would be from going to NCOES schools where the grader at the school has nothing to gain or loose from there grading.

The potential graders should be taking the same APFT in front of the same people that they would be grading. Even a Private would spot someone that can or cannot pass the APFT.

The grader should live by the same standard that they expect from someone they are grading. CSM Mike Oldsen has a better way of making it right, borrow from a different unit. where they have nothing to loose but their integrity.

If someone would do their own NCOER, no telling what else lays under the covers

Response by SGM Suk Melton made Apr 28 at 2015 4:22 PM

2015-04-28T16:22:04-04:00

Anyone qualified can grade an APFT, They need to know the standard and be an ethical person and have some experience in the Army. NCOs should grade the PT Test and administer as the NCOIC. Your units commander should have a MFR of who can administer the test normally CSM-SSG and they can grade also. Another Memo or on the same one who can grade also normally CSM-SPC(P) and above. Also APFT should be organized and a MEMO with the Date Time and the NCOIC and Graders with the Names of who is due an APFT. It’s a commanders program run by the NCOs; it’s all about enforcing a standard and it starts at the unit command level. Hay you is not correct.

Response by CSM Mark Beckford made Apr 28 at 2015 4:30 PM

2015-04-28T16:30:45-04:00

no where in the reg does it say what rank a soldier has to be, but to be safe with no controversy i would use E5's and above or a even a corporal some officers and senior NCO's can be a little touchy with who are grading them, at least if theres an NCO then there shouldn't be any issues ..by the way i'm retire so i will be removing my name from the rallypoint

Response by SSG Rod Schmidt made Apr 28 at 2015 4:54 PM

2015-04-28T16:54:33-04:00

I always liked the idea of the training NCO selecting random NCO's in leadership positions like platoon Sgt's, Squad ldr's. That way you always had a new group of graders and the only rule was not to go to someone in your chain of command. As far as the officers and senior NCO's go I believe there held to the same standards as everyone else so there shouldn't be an issue.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Apr 28 at 2015 5:52 PM

2015-04-28T17:52:08-04:00

There is no rank requirement to grade an APFT. There never has been. Soldiers tasked to be graders are, at least in my experience, pulled from the ranks of those not required to be graded. All that is required is that the grader be familiar enough with the proper exercise form to score one as a completion.

Response by MSG Douglas Tolliver made Apr 28 at 2015 6:00 PM

2015-04-28T18:00:48-04:00

There's no set regulatory requirement to grade the APFT. Commands usually will establish a minimum rank to be a grader but not to grade a particular individual (SGT grading a CPT). I was the HT/WT NCO for my command and also served twice as Detachment Sergeant and as an Operations and Training NCO. Our policy was always SGT and above would grade. If SPC or below (we had no Corporals) were going to be used in a pinch they had to have graduated from WLC (PLDC). It's about training and knowledge of the standards. Teach your troops what you're looking for on the APFT and they'll be better able to serve as a grader if needed but they must understand that the standard has to be upheld whether they are grading an NCO or an Officer, no exceptions.

Response by CPT Peter Grasser made Apr 28 at 2015 6:37 PM

2015-04-28T18:37:36-04:00

Yes, an NCO should be a grader regardless of whom they are Grading on a Physical Fitness Test. A Noncommissioned Officer is the Back Bone of the Army. Being a Corporal is a stepping stone of becoming an NCO, when you are promoted to Corporal it means they have confidence in your ability to be a leader which is a great opportunity but keep in mind if you don't get promoted prior to PCS'ing form that unit you are reverted back to a Specialist. I've worked with several other branches as an NCO for 17 years and an Officer for 8 years and I was always wondering that same thought, this is a great sign because this teaches you how to be a proficient Leader, your time will come, believe me. If anything just sit back learn from those who are great Leaders and then those who are not and that will make you a great Leader beakers you are starting to open your wings and find yourself amongst your peers. Most importantly the hard part is when you get promoted to Sergeant know you will be expected to make decisions tuff ones and that's when you are put to the test.

Response by LTC Reginald Brown made Apr 28 at 2015 7:08 PM

2015-04-28T19:08:34-04:00

Agreed. It allows senior leaders to set the example and show confidence in the those they have promoted. Junior NCO should be training and testing their team or squad frequently; being an official grader in record test reinforces the young NCOs ability to perform their primary task of training their subordinates to be future leaders.

Response by MSG Brad Hansen made Apr 28 at 2015 7:11 PM

2015-04-28T19:11:48-04:00

The unit Commander / 1SG put NCOs on orders for additional duties. APFT is one of the duties and any NCO the command team sees fit to perform the task can be used. As with any additional duty the individual may be removed as needed.

Response by SGM Thomas Raymann made Apr 28 at 2015 7:29 PM

2015-04-28T19:29:59-04:00

Is this a serious question? Para A-9 of FM 7-23 states the mnimum to adminiter a test is 4 (OIC/NCOIC, event supervisor, scorer, and someone to hold feet for the sit-up event). So this inherantly states aminimum of 2 officers or 2 NCOs for supervision, and any other rank for scoring and holding feet. Done. Conduct APFT.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Apr 28 at 2015 7:35 PM

2015-04-28T19:35:10-04:00

I was always a big proponent, along with my CSM in allowing lower enlisted or junior NCOs (qualified of course) to administer the APFT for my soldiers and myself. It was a great motivator for the soldiers to see me (The Commander), (The CSM), and the other senior officers of the Brigade or Battalion taking the APFT right with all the other soldiers assigned to the unit. If the soldiers are qualified and trained to administer the APFT then it shouldn't make a difference what their rank is, unless they are fresh out of AIT. Your NCO Corp should be all about training and instilling responsibility down to the lowest levels! That was my philosophy as a Commander and my CSM's.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 7:54 PM

2015-04-28T19:54:51-04:00

Absolutely yes! Frankly, as soon PFC becomes a Corporal that individual SHOULD be grading APFTs. It's been my experience that if one of my fellow officers has an issue with a junior NCO grading him or her, it's because their not prepared to take the APFT.

Along with that I am a FIRM believer that our junior NCOs (and junior officers) should be given more leadership responsibility as early as possible. When given the chance; our junior leaders, typically, do a fine job.

Respectfully,

HPW

Response by SGT Mike Sears made Apr 28 at 2015 8:01 PM

2015-04-28T20:01:15-04:00

I graded when I was a SPC. I would initial the corrects spot, but all would be verified by a NCOIC. The senior NCO would only choose those that had good scores to grade and it was a matter of principle that as a grader you would be tough, but fair.

Response by SSG Billy Wilkerson made Apr 28 at 2015 8:02 PM

2015-04-28T20:02:56-04:00

When I was assigned to the 25th INF Div everyone had to take the Silver Streamer PT test every 6 months at Division level. The graders were all Master Fitness qualified. No matter Rank! You could have a Sgt grading a E8 as long as they were assigned to the Division Master Fitness section.

Response by SSG Billy Wilkerson made Apr 28 at 2015 8:10 PM

2015-04-28T20:10:00-04:00

I had a Major last year stood in my office and told another Major he had not taken a record PT test in over 9/10 year. Swear it!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 8:20 PM

2015-04-28T20:20:45-04:00

It doesn't matter, there's too much buddy buddy slick stuff happening. Fix that first. I always go to support my Soldiers and I'll pay very close attention to numbers and times; I am often shocked when I look at the cards later.

Response by 1SG Mark Colomb made Apr 28 at 2015 8:20 PM

2015-04-28T20:20:36-04:00

Any NCO can grade individuals during the APFT. Whether or not the 1SG, CSM, or Plt SGT allows them to grade is a different story.

Only those NCOs who have demonstrated competency in grading each event of the APFT should be allowed to grade. I know I certified every grader as a 1SG and Plt Sgt.

Response by SSG Robert Pierce made Apr 28 at 2015 8:50 PM

2015-04-28T20:50:01-04:00

I graded my 1SGT'S PT test as an E-5.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 9:05 PM

2015-04-28T21:05:11-04:00

Hello all
I do not see a problem with anyone grading the PT TEST as long as they are in compliance with the APFT themself. It just better if it an NCO so the intimidating facter would not come into. Play,

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 9:44 PM

2015-04-28T21:44:52-04:00

You are correct that FM 7-22 does not state who qualifies as a grader on the AFPT. It does state that there be an NCOIC and OIC present. When I was stationed with the G-6 (OCP), in Kuwait, we were not allowed to test with a grader from our own unit. I don't think this was because of "You passed him/her because they are your soldier", but speculation of that would question the integrity of the grader no matter what their rank. I have taken many AFPT's in 29 years and even failed one or two, but It doesn't matter who is your grader or their rank versus yours. If you are not meeting the standard then you need to "Get your collective shit together and do what it takes to do better". I had a commander say "Its not hard to pass the APFT but it is harder to do really well on the AFPT"! SSG Brian P. Kelly(Ret).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 9:48 PM

2015-04-28T21:48:30-04:00

In the units I was assigned to, any NCO in the ranks of E-5 thru E-9 could be a grader for the APFT. During my first tour as a Drill Sergeant, even the rank of Corporal E-4 was used as graders. I don't see rank as a factor ,as long as all graders are consistant on standards and impartial to all persons being tested.. back in the day ( 1970's ) we had a group or cadre from G-3 that were from outside the company test our soldiers and that worked pretty well.

Response by SGT Shayne Merritt made Apr 28 at 2015 10:10 PM

2015-04-28T22:10:11-04:00

I feel that as a Jr. NCO and have graded APFT for CSM's, COL's ect... If your command can't or won't trust you with the responsibility of doing this task to standard.. Even as a CPL (which is a rank I also held) then there needs to be a reduction board or they need to slot you back as a SPC... NCO's are NCO's, it doesn't matter how you try to spin it, if you don't feel that a the SPC you lateral promoted to CPL can faithfully carry out the duties of an NCO, don't waist everyons time by bringing them into our ranks... However if they are there, they should be utilized accordingly

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 10:31 PM

2015-04-28T22:31:11-04:00

It was fairly common for all the pt studs e-2 to 5 commonly in my unit to grade all the way upto even officers depending on how much of the company is doing it, they merely have to be briefed and tested before hand. It is one of the encouragements to proving your ability to Lead and show integrity on your brothers and sisters behalf

Response by SFC Jay Needham made Apr 29 at 2015 12:43 AM

2015-04-29T00:43:45-04:00

I was used as a grader for physical fitness testing when I was promoted from a specialist to corporal and as SGT, SSG, SFC, as long as the solders you are scoring are not subordinate to you it shouldn't make a difference. It was the same when scoring on the range or for EIB testing how ever usually we would rely on NCO's from another battalion / Regiment for EIB testing as they would rely on us Bottom line is an NCO is an NCO from Corporal to CSM integrity and professionalism is the same.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Apr 29 at 2015 2:15 AM

2015-04-29T02:15:04-04:00

I really think that grading an APFT should be done by at least a sergeant. I just don't think I'd feel comfortable about any rank under that making that judgment call. If it were possible and I know that it all situations it isn't, I'd trust and recommend a drill sergeant as best qualified for that duty. I saw too many servicemen other than my drill sergeants who couldn't have done the daily exercise routine that I received in basic training to save their lives.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 3:27 AM

2015-04-29T03:27:14-04:00

An officer must always be present to oversee the event and ensure it is conducted properly. As long as you have the minimum requirements, per the FM, to conduct the APFT, then I see no problem. An NCO is an NCO. So, treat them as such, otherwise, what is the point in them wearing the stripes if you have to question their integrity?

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 4:57 AM

2015-04-29T04:57:21-04:00

I concur with this idea as well ("borrowed"). The Task Force I'm with ,at present moment, is going through a similar heartburn with buddies and good friends who have been together for years expecting to give each other that "extra push" to "glory" on the APFT. When I have younger soldiers and NCO's looking at their example calling out every little detail even on myself so an integrity check is in order. Everyone has a bad day, but the standard is set and it's my duty to see it is met(no matter how easy or difficult), for myself and my soldiers with respect and tact to one another. By no means do I proclaim to be a PT stud, but I do practice and achieve what I preach. My opinion speaks out that it should be about what a soldier earns not what they want. If you want a perfect score come earn it, same goes for the minimum. I digress.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 10:57 AM

2015-04-29T10:57:11-04:00

On the face of it, there should never be any question. an NCO's integrity should not be in question, regardless of the sometimes wide rank disparity between the testee and grader. To me, it's a nonissue. Personnel that seek to use their rank to influence (albeit passively, for the most part) need to check both their personal and professional oaths with the man in the mirror.

Live the Creed.

Response by SGT Anthony Bussing made Apr 29 at 2015 11:54 AM

2015-04-29T11:54:09-04:00

I wonder...should the PT test be the same across all branches? I dont really care but just playing devils advocate here.....

Response by SSG Billy Wilkerson made Apr 29 at 2015 3:57 PM

2015-04-29T15:57:24-04:00

I am Retired and been out over 17 years, But I have always said do away with the PU,SU and run and have all Combat arms MOS do a 12 Mile full gear in 3 hours as the Air Assault and Non-combat MOS do it in 4 hours. What better way to test your endurance!!

Response by SSG Ronald Rollins made Apr 29 at 2015 8:56 PM

2015-04-29T20:56:28-04:00

In every unit i was in you had to be a senior sergeant or staff sergeant. That was the only way they would let you grade a PT test especially if it was for a school or promotion board. Most times they used staff NCO's. The reason given was the junior NCOs could be intimidated or would cheat for a friend.

Response by SGM Paul Shenep (R) made Apr 30 at 2015 2:37 AM

2015-04-30T02:37:43-04:00

Be a Legend!

Several instances in my career where a younger Soldier graded, "to standard" a ranking member (CSM, or General)-- and still a legend spoken around campfires today! Here is your biggest homework assignment to learn verbatim as grader.

Grader, example you say while repeating last correctly performed repetition:
9, Body not generally straight
9, Body not moving as a single unit
9, Upper arms not parallel to the ground
9, Arms not fully extended

If your grading warriors, they usually reach muscle failure (they don't stop at minimum) and this will be your cue to sound off with discrepancy above or--TERMINATED, "lifted hand or foot off ground" or "resting on ground."
Be a legend....

Response by CPL John Debus made Apr 30 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-04-30T13:21:19-04:00

what if that NCO worked for the NCO being graded, do you think he will fail the NCO (his supervisor) if he had to, Integrity is a must but it is a good Question? I think if your in a NCO position you should be able to grade it and do as any other NCO would be able to do.

Response by COL Anthony Scotto made Apr 30 at 2015 1:22 PM

2015-04-30T13:22:21-04:00

As with any other Army Regulation, it is within the Commander’s authority to be more restrictive with Soldiers within his unit. Every unit is different, and the regulations provide a way for Commanders to make adjustments that are the most effective for their specific situation. Often their actions are misinterpreted …. I often encouraged NCOs from other Battalions to assist with out APFTs… not because I was concerned about legitimate scoring… but rather because it is always to the benefit of Soldiers/leaders to see how other units do things. If there is concern about Officers/NCOs meeting the APFT standard and a belief that the scorers will not grade properly… then your unit likely has many other problems too. Besides… a point or two either way should never be an issue.

With the reduction in field training time and lack of deployments…. APFT becomes the fall-back for poor leadership. Instead you should ask are you taking advantage of the “down time” to develop your young leaders? Have they visited every Soldiers “home”? Do they know their spouses and children by name? Are they working on their education? Are they doing anything for their community? When is the last time your unit has visited the local VA home? When is the last time your unit has planned a unit training event (SCUBA diving, SkyDiving, Private Weapons on the Range) that introduced something they were not required to do by the mission? Do all of your leaders know and understand motorcycle safety? Even those without motorcycles? Who is planning your Thanksgiving and Christmas event to collect food and toys for those in need…. In and outside the military.

Response by COL Dan Fuhr made Apr 30 at 2015 1:29 PM

2015-04-30T13:29:07-04:00

I'm a bit troubled that this would even be a question. In my opinion, an NCO CPL - CSM is a leader entrusted to enforce the Army standards. This applies to the APFT, uniform, courtesies, carrying out tactical orders you name it.

If an NCO is not trustworthy enough to grade an APFT, then I wonder if that soldier is trustworthy enough to have stripes. Those with more stripes are there to make sure the junior NCOs meet that standard of leadership.

The day we don't trust NCOs to enforce discipline and standards is the day our Army is doomed.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Apr 30 at 2015 5:34 PM

2015-04-30T17:34:28-04:00

The NCO Corp is the backbone of the Army. You can't say that a younger NCO is any more or any less mature than an older NCO with more rank. If the FM 7-22 doesn't specify a specific rank of NCO then I would use whoever was at my disposal and challenge them to uphold the highest standard when discharging their duty as grader.

If the current Chain of Command entrusted a particular individual with the responsibilities of an NCO by promoting them. You develop that trust and responsibility by trusting them and challenging them to do every task to the best of their ability.

In many situations the choice of trusting an individual to administer or grade an APFT is up to the officer or Senior NCO in charge of the individual whether they feel they are competent to be the grader.

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 1 at 2015 12:02 AM

2015-05-01T00:02:04-04:00

Yes! Any leader can do this, I think, so long as (A) they are properly trained to do so, and (B) they are more than capable of passing; I would only use those who score 270 or above.

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made May 1 at 2015 8:13 PM

2015-05-01T20:13:51-04:00

I had been testing/grading when I was a Spec. before I was an NCO. My Unit had trusted me. They knew I had good morals, and knew that I would not be swayed into cheating or anything like that etc. They even sent me to Master Fitness School. I do not recall if there was a "grade" who can do the testing or not? Although on the form it does say "NCOIC/OIC" for signature. But again, that's on a piece of paper....You have to remember that you have only so many NCO's and a lot more Jr. Enlisted to be tested. When I was an NCO, I would grab those who I knew had good PT scores and I trusted and knew who would not give a higher score, and who could count! I would not go below a Spec. to be honest...Just because of experience and the Spec. needs to be prep.'ed for PLDC(?) becoming an NCO and needs to get responsibility under their belts (PT belts LoL!)....

Response by SSG William Parsons made May 15 at 2015 12:41 AM

2015-05-15T00:41:27-04:00

nore doze it say what grade of an NCO can not

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 8 at 2015 8:21 AM

2015-11-08T08:21:23-05:00

E-5 can lead and grade PT , they better be good at it and do a good job.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2021 11:42 PM

2021-02-05T23:42:23-05:00

RESERVES: I was honored to be laterally promoted to a CPL to be assigned as the PTNCIOC of a JRIC. (Disclaimer: I was 31 years old) As such, I utilized my leadership heavily, to guide me but I learned quickly and appreciated the opportunity as a young NCO to run APFTs and PRT for all branches. I continue to chose my graders based on their score of 260 and above even if that means SPCs which means I take full responsibility for the continuity of the grading, so I've trained and test my graders. Thanks for allowing me to share my experience. I hope my experience helps to answer your question.