Can anyone explain what this means, "Soldiers also have a high likelyhood of being passed over for officer promotions, which may lead to?

2020-04-16T19:21:31-04:00

"Soldiers also have a high likelyhood of being passed over for officer promotions, which may lead to separation with no benefits."?

In the counseling I am supposed to sign for OCS, it says i could be separated with no retirement and no benefits if I commission as I have 14 years TIS.

Has anyone heard this or know the details??! I am worried that OCS might make me lose everything.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2020 7:38 PM

2020-04-16T19:38:39-04:00

Let’s just saw you do something profoundly stupid as an LT. It results in a GOMAR. And let’s also say you have 2 years commissioned service. You will likely be passed over for promotion and subsequently separated from the Army and only have 16-17 years service.

The likelihood of a SFC screwing up that bad is unimaginable. Don’t worry about it. Go to OCS and kick ass. Also, know this: to retire as an officer, you must have 10 years commissioned service. So, you will have to stay until 24-25 years total service to retire at highest grade held.

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Apr 16 at 2020 7:48 PM

2020-04-16T19:48:51-04:00

As I understand it: Officer promotions are competitive, more so than for enlisted.
If you are considered and not selected twice, it is similar to meeting RCP on the enlisted side.

I've seen a few cases where twice passed over officers were in the IRR trying to transfer to a drilling status, so I think it is possible for them to continue in that capacity (and potentially resume active duty after further promotion), but I don't recall if any were successful.

Assuming you meet your education marks this oughtn't be a problem though at least CPT so the last 6 shouldn't be a problem.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Apr 16 at 2020 7:52 PM

2020-04-16T19:52:50-04:00

It has been law for years under DOPMA. On the officer side, it's up or out. If you fail to select (FOS) for promotion twice, you must separate within a specified timeframe or get approved by a continuation board to hang around for a good 20; if O-4. In normal promotion flow, O-3s go up for the O-4 board at the 10+ year mark. If FOS twice, they must leave AD, typically about 6 months after. They can transfer to the Reserves and continue there. If you continue to FOS, you can apply for pay billets or VTU for points only. You see continuation boards for O-5s because they are typically FOS twice at around the 15 year point. I recall some stuff about if you have a good 18, you're automatically continued for 20. For sure, anyone that doesn't pass the continuation board would be silly to have that all disappear. Do whatever in the Reserves to make a good 20. You don't see anything until age 60, but given the calculations, getting 38% or so of high three isn't something you casually toss. In your case with 14 good years in and automatic promotion to O-2, that equates to 18 years in and automatic continuation. O-3 has around a 95% promote rate, so you're good for around 23-24 years TIS before DOPMA pushes you out. You look good to go as this aspect really won't affect your ability to retire. My only recommendation to anyone is work to retire under your terms, not the Service's.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 16 at 2020 8:41 PM

2020-04-16T20:41:10-04:00

Is separation pay based on good conduct?

This might help you visualize it better. You have nothing to worry about. https://www.thebalancecareers.com/military-commissioned-officer-promotions-4055887

Military Officer Promotion Times, Rates, and Total Numbers in Service

Promotions among the officer corps in the military start off typically as automatic by simply putting in time, in rate, and meeting the standard.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2020 11:21 PM

2020-04-16T23:21:33-04:00

I read it as meaning, “There is no guarantee that you will retire.” Like, you might be dumb enough to think, if I sign here and become an officer, they’re obligated to keep me until I hit 20.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2020 2:42 AM

2020-04-17T02:42:04-04:00

If refers to the two times non select rule for promotion for officers. Unlike Enlisted who have an RCP, officers get two looks at promotions in their zones. If they are passed over twice they are separated.

However, as a prior enlisted with now break in active duty service, you would be entitled Statutory Entitlement. That would allow you to return to your enlisted rank as opposed being separated without retirement and you would retire at your highest rank held.
With your 14 years TIS AD you'll be retirement eligible prior to hitting a point where it really applies in your situation

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2020 7:32 AM

2020-04-17T07:32:00-04:00

Something that’s different about transitioning to Officer is the fact that you must complete 10 years of honorable commissioned service to retire with Officer pay. So you’ll need to serve 24+ years to earn an officer pension. I think they are just warning you that nothing is guaranteed, I had 17 years PS and just hit my 10+ years as an officer. If o so desire, now I can retire with full pay and benefits. If I would have chosen to retire before my 10 years of AFCS, I would have retired as a SFC and earned that as my retirement. As others have said, you’ll be fine, promotion to CPT ranges between 65-90% selection rates. Unlike SFC, you’ll only get two chances to advance. Good luck in OCS.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2020 9:10 AM

2020-04-17T09:10:27-04:00

Don't sweat it. Officer promotions don't really get competitive until you are going for O4/MAJ. WIth 14 years TIS, you could do 2 years as a 2LT, 2 years as a 1LT and 6 years as a CPT. ANd, bob's your uncle, you have met the 10 year commissioned mark to retire as an officer and you'll have 24 years TIS. easy peasy.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2020 9:33 AM

2020-04-17T09:33:09-04:00

worst case, assuming you don't do anything illegal, immoral or unethical, even if you are a complete and total failure as an officer you can still ride out 6 years as an LT and retire as an E7. I saw it happen twice in the guard. One was an E6 who got commissioned and put off his officer basic course and sat as a 2LT for 4 years. Then he never completed his degree so wasn't eligible for CPT and sat as a 1LT until they forced him to retire. By the time the process worked through he had been commissioned for 10 years and retired as a 1LT. The other was a SFC who direct commissioned and never completed his basic course, he sat as 2LT for at least five years before they forced him out and he retired as E7.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 17 at 2020 2:23 PM

2020-04-17T14:23:48-04:00

If you do 10 more years and retire as a senior CPT in todays terms your retirement per month will be 60% X $6435 = $3861. That is a nice chunk of change.

Make sure you invest in TSP to get matching funds, and it lowers your taxable income.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2020 5:01 AM

2020-04-22T05:01:19-04:00

When the Army goes into a downsizing mode OCS officers with prior enlisted time are usual on the chopping block because the Army wants to only keep enough officers to feed the pipeline and OCS officers will retire too soon and that throws their numbers off.

As long as you make CPT you will be able to retire with 20 years and the biggest cuts were to MAJ and LTC last time.

Also "loosing everything" isn't really that. I resigned at 17 years active to not PCS away from my kids in the middle of a divorce and it was 100% the right call for me. All that time counts for federal positions as well as for reserve retirement. Though I have now been called up and will probably still retire with 20 years active.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2020 4:45 PM

2020-04-23T16:45:59-04:00

The Navy O6 brought up a good point. If you get 18 years in you are in sanctuary and they have to let you retire. You would have to really screw up to not make it another 4 years. Once you 18 they can't remove you, the most they could do is an early retirement, which they have done in the past. The worst case scenario would be if they do a force reduction and you get RIF'd. At 18 years they can't RIF you. I don't know how the Army does it. I know prior enlisted AF officers during the last round of RIF boards were given the option to go back enlisted to retirement.