Posted on Aug 31, 2014
Can anyone out there besides me answer the question what do the rifle calibers of the 1800's mean and the calibers of the 1900's mean?
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The calibers of the 1800's have a partial similarity to the 1900 calibers. If you know the differences the century of the cartridge origination, is easily determined. Some examples are 30-30, 32-20, 30-40, 45-70. Any guesses?
Other examples are 30-06 and more difficult 303, 308.
Other examples are 30-06 and more difficult 303, 308.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 2
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The 19th century black powder metallic cartridges follow the caliber-charge system. The first set of numbers is the caliber of the bullet, the second is the number of grains of black powder measured by wieght; commercially there would be a last set with the wieght of the bullet in grains. For example in this system a 50-90 Sharps has virtually identical case dimensions to the 50-100 and 50-110 Sharps. 30-30 was actually named ".30 Winchester Centerfire" but Marlin and UMC (Remington) didn't want to advertise for big W so they used the blackpowder designation instead (30-30 was always a smokeless carteidge). The 30-40 Krag followed the same convention as did its replacement the 30-45 but the Small Arms Board later renamed it 30-03 with the second character being the year of adoption (1903). The same convention follows for 30-06. the second set is the year of adoption. .303 is a lit7tle goofy, it also follows a blackpowder convention; because it was originally eas one, .303 is the measurement across the lands. .308 Winchester is measured across the grooves. Realistically cartridge names after 1918 don't have a standard it's however the manufacturer (or wildcatter) felt would fit. 22-250 is a 250 savage necked down to 224, and a .303/25 is a 303 Brit necked down to .25. The reason all bets are off is best personified by the .380 Auto which is also known as the 9mm Short, 9x17mm, 9mm Kurtz, 9mm Browning Curto, 9mm Corto, and 9mm Browning; depending mostly on the country you live in. 19th century blackpowder rounds from Continental Europe were identified solely by caliber/case length and the original developer I.E. 7x57mm Mauser, 8x56mmR Mannilicher, 7x54mmR Mosin-Nagant. 7mm Mauser was also known as .275 Rigby in the British Commonwealth (measured across the lands as the .303 is).
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MSG John Wirts
Well I don't know about all of that, but the cartridges in the 1800's were identified by caliber (first two digits) and by number of grains of blackpowder(second two digits). Some cartridges were designed for smokeless powder, but most powder of that era had a conversion to black powder so the grains of black powder was kept as the second number.
In the 1900's the 30-03 was 30 caliber developed in 1903, the 30-06 was developed in 1906, it was a 30-03 cartridge with the round nosed bullet replaced by the current pointer nose bullet. thus the 1903 Springfields were designated as 30-06 after the bullet change. The british always do everything different their designation 303 means 30 caliber developed in 1903 with just the 3 not proceeded by a zero. It is a rimmed cartridge, the 308 was a thirty caliber rimless cartridge developed in 1908.
In the 1900's the 30-03 was 30 caliber developed in 1903, the 30-06 was developed in 1906, it was a 30-03 cartridge with the round nosed bullet replaced by the current pointer nose bullet. thus the 1903 Springfields were designated as 30-06 after the bullet change. The british always do everything different their designation 303 means 30 caliber developed in 1903 with just the 3 not proceeded by a zero. It is a rimmed cartridge, the 308 was a thirty caliber rimless cartridge developed in 1908.
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SSgt Gregory Guina
SSG(P) Auston Terry That is one hell of an explanation and I see that you know your weapons. I never really looked into the history and naming conventions of rounds.
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SSG(P) Auston Terry
MSG, Respectfully the .303 was developed sometime between 1879 and 1888 and fielded with the Lee-Matterson(? it starts with an M) The original Lee-Enfield of 1895 was also chambered in .303. The .303 was the round singled out by the Dutch at the 1899 Hague Convention that resulted in the condemnation on the use of expanding or "dum dum" bullets that remains in place today. There's a pretty good summary of the development of the 308 here: http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/02/history-30-80-wcf-origin-of-308.html. I've always believed that the designation was just to throw off corporate espionage and that 308 was used to ensure the new round was a commercial success in a sea of 30 caliber rounds avialable in the post war era.
Thank you both.
Thank you both.
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Honestly, I keep watching from the shadows to get the answer to this great question. Are we the only ones still up? I'd hate to embarrass myself but I'll throw out a guess. Did the technology of the 1800's not allow for the very close tolerances that we can expect in today's manufacturing?
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MSG John Wirts
Not too many people were ever thought about this. I have personally had hands on all the officially adopted U.S. rifles, except the Johnson. My family owns 2 30-40 Krag-Jorgensen rifles from the 1800's, I have trained with the 1903-1903A3, the 1917 Enfield, the M1 Garand, the M-14, the M-16 and M-16A1. So I was taught the histories of these rifles.
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