Can Brigade CSM deny BLC if I passed APFT (all events over 70%) and am within Army body fat percentage?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:43:22 -0400

Response by SSG Dan Willmont made Apr 3 at 2016 10:47 PM

SSG Dan Willmont — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:47:04 -0400

Nope.

Response by MSG David Chappell made Apr 3 at 2016 10:51 PM

MSG David Chappell — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:51:22 -0400

Question is why would he? Are you asking as in "would" he or "could" he?

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Apr 3 at 2016 11:09 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:09:07 -0400

I will defer to the Senior NCOs on this one :)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2016 12:45 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 00:45:38 -0400

Obviously someone put faith in you to be a junior enlisted nco. There should be no reason to set your career up for failure by not sending you to any NCOES school. Especially when you are meeting the standard. I would push through your chain of command and really dig into this. If there is still doubt in them, take a few hours at the sauna and shed some extra water weight before your next weigh in.

Response by SSG James Elmore made Apr 4 at 2016 4:35 AM

SSG James Elmore — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 04:35:31 -0400

Command has the final say on everything...

That being said they have to have some sort of reason, if you feel your being treated unfairly you can always look into the program's put into place to keep things equal.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2016 6:31 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 06:31:37 -0400

The Brigade CSM can indeed pull your packet. Especially if they feel you are "marginal." It doesn't appear that you are marginal, however, based upon what you've shared. I would use the open door policy and inquire as to why your packet was pulled.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2016 11:41 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 11:41:21 -0400

With the step program it's your units responsibility to give soldiers with the most tig and promotion points priority when filling up class rosters. Says it plain as day in the milper msg for the new system. That could be a reason you got pushed right

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2016 1:05 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 13:05:11 -0400

Shouldnt since slot is determined by hrc

Response by CSM Carl Cunningham made Apr 4 at 2016 4:33 PM

CSM Carl Cunningham — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 16:33:30 -0400

Something isn't adding up here. I don't know many BDE CSM's that would tape someone 7 pounds under UNLESS they have a history of being overweight and close on tape.

Response by SFC Donald Neal made Apr 5 at 2016 1:39 AM

SFC Donald Neal — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 01:39:54 -0400

There should be documentation (counseling) as to why you are not going to an NCOES course. You meet the APFT and body fat standards, but 1% is fairly close and you could have an issue if the school tapes you and their test determines you are over body fat.

Granted the CSM could and should be worried, not over the monies spent sending you, but the potential damage it could do to your career.

Given that, at least they should be doing counseling on you, and then working with you to get you on a plan so you can easily meet the body fat standard with some room to spare in case there's an issue. Your unit MFT should be able to help you get ready in a healthy way without compromising your ability to pass the APFT.Where are you on the OML? That is another issue too, since you'll have a clue as to when you're attending the course, so you have a deadline to prepare for.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 7:16 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 19:16:47 -0400

A CSM shouldn't be denying you anything- that's a commander's call. However, he can certainly influence. And as long as you pass everything, why would he get in the way?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 10:28 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 22:28:35 -0400

With the integration of STEP, command teams are pulling more packets to make room for those who have not attended.

Response by SGT Jack Stevens made Apr 6 at 2016 6:22 AM

SGT Jack Stevens — Wed, 06 Apr 2016 06:22:57 -0400

Well appearance does count as well. I had a CSM who would not allow anyone to attend any school unless the scored above 90 on all three PT events. And if you had a P3 profile, just forget about it. The saying goes... They are not allowed to, but they have done it. Really comes to mind.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Apr 7 at 2016 8:50 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 08:50:31 -0400

Query - Were there soldiers that scored higher than you on the APFT?
I ask this because I always wanted those that excelled to move ahead faster than those that only 'passed' the APFT, especially if they did not strive for their best score. This also applied to weapons qualification etc. Key things were their performance in all soldier areas - uniform, maintenance of individual/unit equipment, attitude (did they gripe about everything), did they help others, were they functional/deadweightmembers of the team, did they have bad checks, domestic problems, drugs/drunks, wife-beaters, chasing married spouses and a long list of other behavorial problems.
No one is perfect and I certainly screwed the pooche a couple of times myself but looking back I did fairly well. I will say everytime another soldier was selected over me for a school or position it was fair. On the other hand I wasn't interested in ever being a 1SG or a CSM. It wasn't my path so there were times I didn't paint the correct rocks red.
Best of luck to you.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2016 9:19 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:19:04 -0400

...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2016 1:09 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 13:09:42 -0400

I am the schools rep for my Squadron. It takes a Generals signature to pull a BLC packet. If you don't fail, then there is no justification to pull the packet.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2016 1:25 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 13:25:10 -0400

Maybe he doesn't want borderline soldiers that barely meet the standard. Been there done that.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2016 1:59 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 13:59:56 -0400

As a former BN Schools NCO, this question and issue would come up alot in the processing of packets. This was particularly true for NCOES and Drill Sergeant/Recruiter packets. Each Brigade has it's own SOP as far as what it wants for acceptable packets. Also, depending on the installation and where the course is, there are requirements set forth by the Division CSM. If a Soldier was within 2% of the maximum body fat percentage (regardless of ht/wt), then they would be counseled by the 1SG and BN CSM and then the BDE CSM before the packet would ever make it to DIV Schools.

It comes down to each individual CSM's standards and the fact that they don't want to respond to an RBI to the Sergeant Major of the Army (which I have had to write a few of). Also, Thomas...you should remember this from 1-64.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2016 2:01 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:01:09 -0400

You may not be getting denied, so to speak, so much as being placed in line. With the new STEP program, each unit has an Order of Merit List for those needing to attend BLC. Obviously, Sergeants who have not attended are at the top of that list, than E4, regardless of CPL or SPC. Then it'll be those E4's who are promotable, based on time being promotable/time in service. Finally, all the other E4's in the unit. The OML then gets sent up to BDE, and they get slid into spots with the other units, all sorted criteria above. Brigades will only get X amount of slots per class date to fill. It may just be a case of you not being high enough of the OML, vs. a CSM.

Response by SFC Antonio Nieto made Apr 7 at 2016 2:02 PM

SFC Antonio Nieto — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 14:02:48 -0400

Maybe he feels you are not ready to be a zebra

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2016 7:13 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:13:27 -0400

ABCP is the Commander's program. The Commander can assess body fat whether or not you meet screening table weight. However, it is NOT a requirement. If the BN CSM is going to pull a Soldiers packet, he should advise the BN CDR to establish a policy that states all Soldiers attending PME will be taped and will not attend if they are within such and such percentage of the body fat standard. Set the standard, so Soldiers know the standards.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2016 12:34 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Apr 2016 12:34:45 -0400

If you are meeting all the requirements, then no....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2016 11:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 23:33:00 -0400

Yes, he can. Just leave an assignment after two year as a BLC instructor, you are correct you will not be taped but the CSM can set his standards a bit higher to show cause why he would not send you. Or just say that he thinks your not ready. Either way he can.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2016 11:37 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 23:37:31 -0400

there sounds like we are not getting the entire story. Why is the BGE CSM pulling your packet. And as one of the other seniors stated, did you receive a da form 4856 stating why?

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Aug 10 at 2018 6:23 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 18:23:46 -0400

Command Sergeants Major can not deny you unless the CSM is the Commandant of the school or runs the selection board for a BLC candidates. I have to agree with the others that something here "does not pass the smell test" in other words