Can I be counseled for responding to a counseling?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 10:21:15 -0500

I was issued a counseling that I disagreed with and attached MFR in response. I was respectful and tactful and stated facts as remember them. Now I'm being counseling for my response. Can I be counseled for responding to a counseling?

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Feb 27 at 2020 10:25 AM

SPC Nancy Greene — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 10:25:29 -0500

Evidently SFC BR
Army has ‘counseling’ for everything!
LOL

Response by COL John McClellan made Feb 27 at 2020 10:26 AM

COL John McClellan — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 10:26:01 -0500

Hmmmm. At what level was this counseling?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2020 10:31 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 10:31:01 -0500

Initial counseling from first line (SSG). Follow on from PSG (SSG).

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 27 at 2020 10:40 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 10:40:55 -0500

A counseling is not a legal or punitive action. Any question that begins with "can I be counseled" the answer is yes. You can be counseled a hundred times a day if your leadership deems it necessary. A counseling is nothing more than a written record of a conversation.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2020 11:20 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 11:20:11 -0500

You can be counselled for how you tie your shoes in the morning!!!!!!!

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Feb 27 at 2020 12:29 PM

MSgt Michael Smith — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 12:29:38 -0500

I think you should request a counselling and ask that specific question. CLUE: Counselling is often used inappropriately as a way for incompetent/weak superiors to try to exert authority over you.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Feb 27 at 2020 2:56 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 14:56:23 -0500

Yes, your supervisor can counseling you as needed. Your description lacks details, which is fine for social media. It sounds a little like a "he said, she said" situation. You might be better off to let it alone. Don't escalate it into a big deal and it will probably die. Focus on doing your job as well as you can.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2020 3:26 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 03:26:28 -0500

Your suppose to write your rebuttal in the section and sign. If the counselor gave you a suspense you are expected to meet that suspense or it will count against you. That counselor can assume refuse to sign either way do not not sign or acknowledged. It looks bad on your part for not as hearing to the counseling and your already being reprimanded. I would just write your rebuttals add the MFR as well and send it to the counselor. It makes no sense for him to counsel your for your response your suppose to respond.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Feb 28 at 2020 8:35 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 08:35:36 -0500

Should it happen? Probably not.
Can it happen? Absolutely.
Remember that what SHOULD be, what CAN be, and what MUST be are three RADICALLY different things.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2020 9:13 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 09:13:13 -0500

You should definitely
up the game and attach another MFR to that counseling. While you're at it, offer to correct the spelling, punctuation and grammar errors that are likely found in that counseling as well.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 28 at 2020 1:10 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 13:10:10 -0500

The short answer is yes. But, the appropriate answer is to simply do what is necessary to comply with what they want you to do. In my experience, what we perceive as fairness often doesn't matter. Obviously in matters of EO and the like it should. But, in the day to day business, there are lots of times where it's just going to suck to be lower in ranking and the best way to deal with it is to just drive on. Sometimes I do things to my junior soldiers to try and get them to complain to see if they will, or if they will man up and do what is asked. I generally do that when I am trying to decide between soldiers for an opportunity. In my book, complaining is a waste of my time and effort and distracts everyone from the mission. Our job as soldiers just plain sucks sometimes, and there are times we have to choose the least bad, bad option. Nobody wants to hear anyone complain. Once you are known for complaining about shit you can't do anything about, leadership will think you are a whiner. My advice is to suck it up and drive on. The more you complain, the more you are going to get counseled, most likely.

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made Feb 29 at 2020 1:23 AM

SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA — Sat, 29 Feb 2020 01:23:13 -0500

Can you be counseled? Of course, you just were.
Should you have been counseled for your MFR? Hard to tell without details.

But I do like your approach. Just like a 4856 is used to document what your NCOs tell you, keep submitting MFRs whenever you communicate or respond. CYA always.

Response by SFC Don Vance made Feb 29 at 2020 9:17 AM

SFC Don Vance — Sat, 29 Feb 2020 09:17:45 -0500

A counseling statement is nothing more than a record of a conversation. If you're being counseled because you responded then it's bogus. Depending on the nature of the counseling session I would expect a response and document it accordingly. The quickest way to lower morale is to not have open communication with subordinates.