Can I be denied religious services while on extra duty?

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 17:34:13 -0400

my chain of command said that I can’t go to religious services while I’m on extra duty

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Mar 16 at 2018 5:46 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 17:46:53 -0400

The best I can say is, carry your Bible with you, and read a little when you get time, God doesn't care where you are when you want to commune with Him, I've done it in the field and while waiting for the commander to get out of his meetings.

Response by SGT Mike Taylor made Mar 16 at 2018 6:10 PM

SGT Mike Taylor — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 18:10:09 -0400

It depends on your religion and how much your command is willing to deal with. Continue be willing and able, however if you are of another community the military doesn't recognize...pick and choose your battles.

Best wishes mate.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 16 at 2018 6:20 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 18:20:24 -0400

Your unit will get their 8 hours out of you. Unless church is your normal thing just suck it up. Your unit can make you start ED after services.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 6:21 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 18:21:55 -0400

No you can't be denied religious services. However, they can limit the number of times you are allowed to attend. If you are allowed to go to the regularly scheduled worship service on Sunday (or whenever it is scheduled) they can say that you have been afforded the opportunity to worship and deny the right to attend additional opportunities like Bible study. Not sure about the Army, but at least in the Navy things like Bible study don't fall under the heading of "religious services", but "religious education."

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Mar 16 at 2018 6:34 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 18:34:25 -0400

PFC Private RallyPoint Member what the heck? I read what other said, but it seems to me this is something that should not be denied. I hope it works out for you.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Mar 16 at 2018 6:35 PM

LCpl Cody Collins — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 18:35:21 -0400

That's why The Bible says study to show thy self approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth.
In other words if you study your Bible it will be in your heart so when you have extra duty you just meditate on what's already in your heart . if you don't study your Bible then there will be nothing there in your heart for you to meditate on when situations like extra duty come to pass. Because you signed up to serve your country not hold Bible study when it's convenient for you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 6:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 18:39:22 -0400

I'me mot a lawyer; that being said when I was in duty status was duty status 8 hours a day or 24 hours a day. Everything else comes after duty. Maybe I'me old school. God will forgive you for living up to your commitments.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 6:51 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 18:51:19 -0400

You are permitted to attend one religion service a week. If they don’t allow either then you should have a reason for recourse. Just deal with it tactfully as you don’t want to end up in more trouble.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Mar 16 at 2018 6:59 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 18:59:40 -0400

False... that's literally the only place you can go. But keep in mind, your extra duty comes first, so if you think you can schedule your church time when you're supposed to be scrubbing toilets, well that's just false.

But if you're on restriction, typically it's supposed to be for 6 days a week and 1 day off for religious service.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 16 at 2018 7:09 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 19:09:51 -0400

You can go before or after, if the extra duty as entails restriction, you can be escorted to and from services.

Response by MSgt Jason McClish made Mar 16 at 2018 7:15 PM

MSgt Jason McClish — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 19:15:03 -0400

Yes...same rules apply to regular duty. Attendance of religious services on duty is not guaranteed, especially if you’re a shift worker, not like most of the military. If you’re an nonner, it’s not an issue. Extra duty, yes.

Response by CH (COL) Geoff Bailey made Mar 16 at 2018 7:20 PM

CH (COL) Geoff Bailey — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 19:20:09 -0400

Have you contacted your Chaplain regarding your request to attend services?

There are many variables to consider in your request. The DoD places a high emphasis on facilitation of free exercise of religion in the least restrictive manner. This is part of why we have chaplains and chapel services. That said, each command makes decisions in consultation with their respective JAG and Chaplain.

I’ve had extra duty Soldiers attend during their extra duty and I’ve also seen units require Soldiers who miss an hour of duty pull an additional hour after their peers left. As a Chaplain, I have my own opinion on that, but supported the command as they did what they felt was equitable.

Refusing access to any options of religious services which are the expression of the adherent is not permissible. Creating solutions which balance free exercise with UCMJ punishment is what leaders do in collaboration with trusted advisors.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 16 at 2018 7:39 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 19:39:50 -0400

"And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly"

When you're scrubbing out the shitter, close the stall and pray. It's be more well received on gods answering machine.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 7:51 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 19:51:51 -0400

Soldiers can not be denied the right to attend religious services. For Christians, that religious service would be the mass on Sunday. Bible study would not apply. Daily religious service, mass, would likely

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 8:18 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:18:54 -0400

Is it the chain of command? Like your commander or is it some NCO that is on CQ on Sunday?

Response by CW3 Jeff Held made Mar 16 at 2018 8:22 PM

CW3 Jeff Held — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:22:34 -0400

OK, so look. I don’t know if you are being genuine or angling for a way to sham out of ED.

Were I your leader I would figure out how to get you to the services and then figure out how you could make up the ED. Services could be any time convenient for me.

What are you on ED for?

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 8:23 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:23:38 -0400

Not up on current regs or Army, but folks on restriction and/or EPD due to UCMJ had to be allowed to attend services in years past. The BN legal folks drafted the restriction/EPD papers. They were kept in custody of the Duty NCO (same as CQ in Army?), and they had to initial them at the prescribed times after working hours. They also spelled out the only places they were authorized to be other than duty, or the barracks. I recall place of worship being allowed.

Response by PO1 Mary Vermont made Mar 16 at 2018 9:47 PM

PO1 Mary Vermont — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 21:47:59 -0400

Your in the militry, what is the problem. You do what your told

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Mar 16 at 2018 11:54 PM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 23:54:10 -0400

There are public assessable directives that detail religious issues; USCG COMDTINST 1730.4C RELIGIOUS MINISTRIES WITHIN THE COAST GUARD. Aboard ship, the church pendant is hoisted during Sunday divine services. No disruptive work is allowed during services.

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Mar 17 at 2018 4:43 PM

CH (LTC) Robert Leroe — Sat, 17 Mar 2018 16:43:54 -0400

There is a policy regarding accommodation of religious practices which encourages commanders to do what they can within reason to allow troops to practice their faith. It is a complicated matter, and usually requests are on a case-by-case basis. Talk to your chaplain about this. The chaplain could explain to your chain-of-command that by going to chapel you might be a better soldier and not be so inclined to do things to cause you to have extra duty.

Response by SFC Daniel McIntire made Mar 17 at 2018 6:05 PM

SFC Daniel McIntire — Sat, 17 Mar 2018 18:05:01 -0400

Wrong answer! The practice of religious services cannot be denied. Such denial will place this command team in trouble with your battalion chaplain, EO/EEO, and other support sections (IG and probably JAG). If requested, your chain of command need to work at making that opportunity possible, despite your offenses and their challenges.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Mar 17 at 2018 6:48 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Sat, 17 Mar 2018 18:48:03 -0400

Nope.

Response by PO1 Cassiopeia Goldenstein made Mar 20 at 2018 6:47 PM

PO1 Cassiopeia Goldenstein — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 18:47:08 -0400

Get your extra duty over with and then go talk to your chaplain.

Response by Jessie R. Smith Jr. made Mar 21 at 2018 6:08 PM

Jessie R. Smith Jr. — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 18:08:01 -0400

Wasn't in the military so I can't say from that viewpoint. However when I was working on Sundays in the Segregation Unit of a Federal Prison, I would read the available Bibles for a while and pray. When I had to work Easter, the Chaplain came by to give communion to the inmates who wanted it. I asked about myself and it kind of shocked him but sure, he used the orderlies ironing board for a small altar and it was short but felt good. The other two officers were Catholic so they couldn't accept from a Protestant Minister. They said they would get it at Mass after work. Really shocked the inmates when word got around that an Officer would be a practicing Christian in Seg.

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Apr 8 at 2018 10:53 AM

CW3 Michael Clifford — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 10:53:42 -0400

I would suggest you contact an military attorney at the Trial Defense Services for the official language regarding religious services and the best way to resolve any restriction upon you. You don’t need to needlessly paint a target on your back when there were much less “in your face” resolution which you failed to explore.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Apr 8 at 2018 11:23 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 11:23:27 -0400

Denied NO, accommodated to your liking NO.
If it was for an SM I felt was not living up to Army Standards, Id have the Chaplin come visit you on your lunch break, you can commune with god at that time, and the go back to work.

No place in the regulation does it require a specific place, "type" or length of service for the required religious service. Just that you must be afforded one... Congrats, sit down, eat your MRE with the Chaplin and commune with god.

That said, if the SM was doing really well on his overall attitude adjustment, I felt fully corrected the transgression that got them there, on time every time for ED, accomplished all assigned tasks to standard and never found slacking when on ED (or during the duty day) Id be inclined to send them to the regularly scheduled service of their choice that week... as an atty boy for doing the right thing. Even when no one is watching

Response by SSgt Mose Carter made Apr 16 at 2018 10:01 AM

SSgt Mose Carter — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 10:01:23 -0400

Just grin and bear it fellow. Did you join the military to go to church or to serve your nation. One has to do what one has to do while in the service of our great nation. The God Lives within you. He's everywhere you go whether you are there or not. Thank God for Jesus that's love. Thank God for Liberty that's freedom. Thank God for life that's living.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2018 1:47 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:47:38 -0400

Talk with your BN Chaplain. CH LTC Geoff Bailey's post has good guidance

Response by CSM Patrick Durr made Apr 26 at 2018 12:51 AM

CSM Patrick Durr — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 00:51:50 -0400

If you were routinely going to an organized religious service before you committed whatever offense you committed to get onto extra duty, it is likely that you'll have no problem continuing to attend a service ON POST, with minimal time to get there and back. However, if you've suddenly found some religion to get out of a few hours of cutting grass around the company headquarters...good luck.

Response by SGT Kyle Bickley made Apr 29 at 2018 9:45 PM

SGT Kyle Bickley — Sun, 29 Apr 2018 21:45:23 -0400

No you can't. However, using it as an excuse to get outta extra duty doesn't fly kid! Extra duty? Piss someone off? Fly straight, keep your nose outta trouble, do as your told and I'm sure you won't have any problems seeing Jesus. Take your punishment and quit crying! We won't give you coloring books, counseling, or a safe place on this web site.

Response by SP5 Geoffrey Vannerson made May 2 at 2018 10:55 AM

SP5 Geoffrey Vannerson — Wed, 02 May 2018 10:55:13 -0400

While in service if you received an ART 15 it was 14 and 14, (14 days extra duty and 14 days restriction which was usually confinement to the barracks except for time to go to the PX for supply's. If you are truly a religious person then you know that you don't need to have someone tell you how you should live it is written in the first 5 books of the bible. The (TORAH) provides all the laws you need to follow for living according to GODS plan and will. You don't need to go anywhere or talk to anyone. GOD/JESUS lives with in you through the Holy Spirit. If you read your bible and pray as commanded you have no need to attend until the restriction is lifted. Take this time to spread the word to others who don't attend. I'm just glad to see that the military hasn't removed GOD from the equation (yet)! I salute you for your passion for the word. Keep the faith, for the test will only get harder before it gets any easier. GOD Bless you "double soldier" for you serve two armies......

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made May 5 at 2018 6:03 PM

PO1 Tom Follis — Sat, 05 May 2018 18:03:39 -0400

No one should be denied religious services when and where available. Of course, in my opinion, extra duty should not be required on The Lords Day either. On the same token, one should never use The Lords Day as an excuse either. If you attend services this Sunday, you should be there every Sunday. Word of the wise, talk to the Chaplain and allow him to speak for you. That’s what Chaplains do. Good luck and stay out of trouble.

Response by SSG Brian G. made May 6 at 2018 10:50 PM

SSG Brian G. — Sun, 06 May 2018 22:50:06 -0400

If someone in your chain of command told you that then they are wrong and lying. No matter your status there are basic things that no service member can ever be denied. Medical and religious services are two of these. They have to allow you to go once a week, usually on Sunday. However the extras such as bible study, etc., they do not have to allow.

Get the name and rank of the person that told you that you could not go to religious services. This could be actionable.

However, make sure before you go down this road that you have a solid pattern of actually going to religious services and are not using it as an out to avoid an hour or more per week of ED. Command will find out in some way.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2018 1:03 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 May 2018 13:03:07 -0400

Spend more time keeping yourself out of trouble and less time trying to get out of your duties.

Response by SSG Phillip Bliss made Jun 3 at 2018 12:06 PM

SSG Phillip Bliss — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 12:06:11 -0400

I’m going to express my skepticism on this one, based upon personal experience, I will admit that I have no knowledge on your situation but in general Soldiers across the Army (military) have a tendency to exhibit similar behavior under similar situations.
Setting: I’m on BN staff duty on Saturday, which runs me into Sunday morning at 0900. PVT Extra enters the staff duty area, in uniform, to check in. ‘SSG, I am checking in early to make sure I am accounted for and to request to attend religious services today, is this ok?’ ‘Sure thing’, says I. ‘PV2 Duty should be here soon, he too will be attending religious services with me, I’ll be back to pick him up when he signs in.’
So here’s the deal, the Staff Duty brief and duty desk has the ‘religious services’ schedule posted and the policy clearly stated on the attendance of religious services.
So 30 minutes later in waltzes PV2 Duty and PVT Extra in very casual civilian attire (looking more like gym clothes than church clothes, sweats, sleeveless shirts) and inform me and the oncoming SDNCO (whom had just arrived) that they were off to ‘religious services’. The oncoming SDNCO states to PV2 Duty, ‘which service will you be attending?’ PV2 Duty curtly replies, ‘church’. After about 30 seconds of a shocked and defensive stare down I intervene. ‘PV2 Duty, SGT SDNCO is asking you which religious service you and PVT Extra are planning on attending, so she can log your location and have an expected return time for you two.’ ‘CHOP’, replies PV2 Duty, ‘can we go now?’
So here’s the issue, PV2 Duty has been extremely rude and curt with SGT SDNCO and I, is clearly not planning on attending religious services in accordance with the Staff Duty SOP and clearly has an air of entitlement. I ask the two soldiers why they are in civilian clothes and what looks to be gym attire, not church clothes. ‘CHOP is a come as you are church, and we like to be comfortable’, is the reply.

I have PV2 Duty and PVT Extra read aloud the policy that is posted (taped on the duty desk right next to the extra duty sign in log) and proceed to ask them to explain why they think there’s an issue with the current situation that they have created.

List of issues and red flags:
Soldiers request to ‘attend religious services’, not ‘go to church’ or a religious location by name.
Extra Duty Soldiers are restricted to on post, and must remain in duty uniform. CHOP is off post, and ‘come as you are’ would allow for being in uniform.
Refusal to state a specific time of return (didn’t know because they had no intention of attending?).

Moral of the story is,
1. Attend religious service in accordance to policy.
2. Actually attend the service within policy guidelines.
3. Provide the information about your specific intentions, within the guidelines, to the local policies, to the Staff Duty, S3 NCOIC (typically who provides oversight of Staff Duty), and Chain of command prior to event attendance, or upon assignment to extra duty.

I personally believe that the Soldiers in my situation had no intention on attending ‘religious services’ based upon the haphazard way that they went about their request for attendance. Regardless, they were attempting to break all of the guidelines and were extremely rude while doing so.
I gave them the schedule of services and asked them to clarify which service they were attending on post. They both declined, and were sent back to their rooms to change and report to duty at 0900.

Response by COL Robert Davies made Jun 10 at 2018 2:27 PM

COL Robert Davies — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 14:27:25 -0400

Actually, yes. If you are on extra duty, it is the chains' call. It is an accommodation. Some depends on how long you will be on extra duty, if along duration, some leniency afforded.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2019 4:02 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:02:13 -0400

shoulda thought about that before you got in trouble

Response by 1SG Charles Hunter made Jan 18 at 2021 10:11 PM

1SG Charles Hunter — Mon, 18 Jan 2021 22:11:27 -0500

Your chain of command must provide reasonable accommodation for your religious beliefs, including attending worship services. Key word, "reasonable." This does not replace your extra duty.