Can I be denied terminal leave?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Feb 2022 20:05:45 -0500

First I just want say, I understand leave is a privilege in the military and can be denied. However:

My TIS began in MAY 2017 and will conclude in DEC 2022. In those 67 months, I accrued about 167 leave days. I have only taken leave 3 times which totaled 68 days. Which will leave my as of today, 99 ETS Bal (72 CR Bal).

My problem is my leadership above the Co, did not believe I had so many leave days. So after this, I did the math and gathered PHYSICAL COPIES of the leave log book of S1 with those 68 days of leave I’ve used. I will present this tomorrow but even then, can this be denied and what are my next steps if it is?

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 16 at 2022 12:10 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 00:10:42 -0500

Yes, it can be denied, and it is solely in the hands of your Commander, You could sell some of it back if the CO doesn't want to approve the whole thing. You could take it to the next higher commander on an open-door policy, but check with your CAM 1st

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2022 12:40 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 00:40:35 -0500

Are you saying that your leadership doesn't believe your LES? Or are you saying your LES doesn't reflect 99 days - because the way you accounted for your leave is not the way its calculated.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Feb 16 at 2022 9:19 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 09:19:34 -0500

Leave is approved by the commander "at the needs of the service". They do have to follow policies of the their commanders and the US Army Policies, but some of those include manning-requirements (so many soldiers available for duty, etc.) plus some of those policies restrict loooong leeeeaves.
In the end the commander decides and approves.
The answer is YES, you can be denied terminal leave.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2022 10:04 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 10:04:54 -0500

Can you be denied Terminal Leave? Yes, you can. Now, what can also be done is Command says NO to all the days you want to take and inform you that you can only take 60 days (as an example). If your days are cancelled, then your next step is to sit down with your Commander and ask how many days you CAN take (because the Commander still needs to meet end strength for mission). If they say 30, then what ever is left you sell.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Feb 16 at 2022 10:43 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 10:43:08 -0500

It sounds like you have different irons in the fire.

The Commander is the one who denies/approves leave.
You normally can only use 60 on terminal and the cap on selling leave is also 60.
The Commander may not want to let you use 60 for terminal which is a conversation to have i advance so you can make arrangements. Before my retirement I had to burn some leave before terminal to reduce my balance. You may have to do the same. Or you can sell the max amount and see if they will let you take the rest as leave. Regardless, whichever you pick you will need to coordinate with leadership. They just need to know the plan and third and fourth party telephone messages get lost in translation sometimes.

With all that said you mentioned they are contesting your leave balance. I would recommend working with S1 to validate the numbers before speaking to leadership.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2022 11:34 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 11:34:46 -0500

Actually, leave is a right granted by Congress via federal law, not a privilege. The caveat is even though it's a right, it doesn't mean we can take it whenever we want. It is up to the commander to approve or deny leave basing it on mission requirements, pending UCMJ, etc.

I don't understand their issue. They're denying you terminal leave because they think you have too much leave? Like your battalion commander doesn't think you really have that much leave? (You said leadership above the co so I assume it's going to BN commander to sign).

Yes even terminal leave can be denied but it's so weird why they want to deny it. If you show them yes you have that many days, then just work out a plan as mentioned below. Selling back 60 days or you knock it down to 60 days before you ETS.

Response by PO1 Sam Deel made Feb 16 at 2022 2:07 PM

PO1 Sam Deel — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:07:34 -0500

The very REAL answer is.....YES!!! Ever since the Obama Regime, there are no longer any absolutes with Regs. They were routinely broken to affect social climate change and demographic makeup in the US Military, under the guise of "Force Downsizing". Never mind that this was during a two-front Global War on ACTUAL terrorism. Myself was caught up in this, Regs violated left and right, ending my career and leaving me Disabled from lack of proper care. A Chief in my Squadron got the boot in his Sunset Cruise, for no good reason. A fellow First Class Petty Officer, less than a year qualified in the Red Manned Billet of C-130T Flight Engineer, was also given the boot by an unexpected forced cross-Rate with only a single two-week look cycle. Many, many more. Call it what you will, but this is what happens when the upper echelon Brass in the Pentagon are dutiful political servants, instead of, Leaders of Warriors.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2022 4:22 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Feb 2022 16:22:53 -0500

Well for one, you will only have 97 days for your ETS balance if you’ve used 68 days. You earn 2.5 per month. Usually, terminal leave does not get approved over 60 days UNLESS you are retiring. They will force you to sell the remaining balance

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Feb 17 at 2022 1:56 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Thu, 17 Feb 2022 13:56:23 -0500

Are you being given a reason that you will not be allowed to use 99 days of terminal leave? Do you have a skill set that cannot be replaced? If so your commander can easily deny terminal leave.
At 4.5 years TIS and at the rank of SGT you should already know this. Mission first.
Next step: ask when you will be allowed to start terminal and plan accordingly.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2022 10:37 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2022 10:37:07 -0400

Any update on this issue? I had the same concern as you before, but then my terminal leave was approved. I told my chain that I was supposed to take 50 days of PCS leave but somehow I only took 14 days due to Covid cutting my travel plans short-long story. Don’t overthink. Your leadership may be surprised you had so many leave days, but they didn’t indicate they are not going to deny it.

Response by SFC Randy Markgraf made Apr 6 at 2022 9:25 PM

SFC Randy Markgraf — Wed, 06 Apr 2022 21:25:36 -0400

It may have changed since I retired, but you used to forfeit all leave in excess of 60 days at the turnover of the fiscal year on 1 October. For awhile, they were letting us keep up to 90 days, but that was temporary. You may have forfeited some of your leave days and never noticed. I took 112 days when I retired, but that was 20 days permissive TDY, 90 days accrued leave where over 30 of that was expended prior to the changeover of the fiscal year, and two days accrued and used after the new fiscal year.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Apr 6 at 2022 9:47 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Wed, 06 Apr 2022 21:47:38 -0400

Show them your LES!

Response by SSG Ken Potts made Apr 12 at 2022 8:46 PM

SSG Ken Potts — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:46:54 -0400

What does your LES show? They believe that only.