Can I be forced to shave if I have a shaving profile?

2020-09-02T16:26:23-04:00

What’s up everybody I’m pv2 jones and I been in the army a little over 9 months, I love serving until it comes to shaving. I’ve tried everything and my face bumps up terrible man I’m talking about it looks disgusting, plenty of my Drill Sgts in AIT tried teaching me how to shave but it doesn’t work. So I just got to my new unit about 2 and a half months ago and I was still shaving even though it was painful and it looked Terrible, one day an NCO From another unit told me that I NEED to go get a shaving profile because my face just looks terrible and she can tell I was in pain so I promised her I will go get one and have them check it out . After my first appointment the dermatologist gave me a permanent shaving profile and told me that I don’t need to shave atleast until my bumps are clear. So a few weeks go by and I have a little beard (still in regulation 1/4 of an inch) so After pt my squad leader pulls me to The side and starts cursing me out at the top of his lungs saying I need to shave , I told him respectfully I have a shaving profile and it hurts for me to shave he stares at me and replied Under his breath “like every other black person in the army that can’t use razors” I didn’t say anything but it kind of hurt because I don’t want to be a odd ball in my company (I’m in a infantry company btw) so later that day we go into work to clean weapons and he calls me over and apologizes about this morning and I told him it was ok he then said that I need to shave still if I want to make it in the military and I replied and told him I’m not shaving so he can F’ing forget about it he then told me since I cursed him my punishment will be to shave or receive a article for disrespecting a NCO so later I went to my barracks room and shaved during lunch and came back in he then told me that no matter what my profile says I need to listen to him and shave I told my platoon sgt about this whole Situation and he told me I need to listen to my squad leader and shave because the army just gives shaving profiles to anyone. Is this right?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2020 4:33 PM

2020-09-02T16:33:20-04:00

I would say you're covered, however if you can help it I would only shave once a week or whatever your skin can handle. Keep your head up and stay professional.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2020 4:34 PM

2020-09-02T16:34:19-04:00

Sounds like you have a lovely command climate.
And unfortunately no, they are not correct and are not doctors. Denying the terms of your profile is not something they have the power to do. As ling as you strictly abide by that profile and stay respectful in your response. you should be fine and could arguably contest and punitive action that is specifically against you not shaving. May get the dogshit smoked out of you, but that's an unfortunate reality with leadership that decides they make their own rules. Hope things work out for ya man.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2020 4:36 PM

2020-09-02T16:36:15-04:00

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2020 4:37 PM

2020-09-02T16:37:41-04:00

You have a profile you need to follow it. But you need to make sure you keep it within the regulations of the profile (1/4 inch). Only your commander can override the doctor’s “recommendation” for the profile. Has your commander signed/approved the profile? If you haven’t, you need to get that done. When he/she signs it you can mention the problem you have with your NCOs. Good luck.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2020 4:48 PM

2020-09-02T16:48:46-04:00

You are required to shave/trim your beard within the confines of your profile and no more than 1/4 inch. Keep your profile on you at all times. And, if this NCO really did say “like every other black person in the army that can’t use razors,” then I would recommend you address this with your EOA and/or EOL, as this could be constituted as a racial slur. Could be. They will be the SMEs to answer that question, though.

Response by SMSgt David A Asbury made Sep 2 at 2020 5:00 PM

2020-09-02T17:00:54-04:00

Are there not products that remove hair without shaving? I am not sure of Army regulations but talk with others who have the the same issue. Over a period of time, you should conquer it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2020 5:05 PM

2020-09-02T17:05:26-04:00

Your commander CAN choose not to accept your profile. A profile, afterall, is a recommendation from a physician to a commander. Anyone lower than the CO in your chain of command cannot tell you to disregard this profile. I will add that your 1SG is usually in on the decision, so you may receive word that the CoC is disregarding the profile from him or her. Either way, its a Command level decision, nobody lower can force you to shave.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2020 5:20 PM

2020-09-02T17:20:54-04:00

Have you tried using clippers?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2020 5:26 PM

2020-09-02T17:26:16-04:00

I'm going to address this part:

"I told him respectfully I have a shaving profile and it hurts for me to shave he stares at me and replied Under his breath “like every other black person in the army that can’t use razors” I didn’t say anything but it kind of hurt because I don’t want to be a odd ball in my company (I’m in a infantry company btw)...
---- THAT is a damn EO complaint right there. That's racist as crap I don't care what unit you're in. That was not only racist but unprofessional as hell.

...so later that day we go into work to clean weapons and he calls me over and apologizes about this morning and I told him it was ok he then said that I need to shave still if I want to make it in the military and I replied and told him I’m not shaving so he can F’ing forget about it he then told me since I cursed him my punishment will be to shave or receive a article for disrespecting a NCO so later I went to my barracks room and shaved during lunch and came back in he then told me that no matter what my profile says I need to listen to him and shave I told my platoon sgt about this whole Situation and he told me I need to listen to my squad leader and shave because the army just gives shaving profiles to anyone."
---- You shouldn't have cursed at him but I can understand the frustration. I would have taken the counseling (he can't give you UCMJ). The most he could do is a counseling and even if he tried to recommend UCMJ, no one in JAG is processing that on one counseling statement.
---- It does matter what your profile says. If I was you, I'd go to the next person higher than your squad leader so your PSG. Let them know what your squad leader is up to. If I had a punk ass squad leader like that I'd want to know. The Army doesn't give anyone profiles - medical personnel give them and no, they don't just hand them out to anyone.

You have an obvious medical issue that you're taking care of. Do NOT let any NCO ever bully you like that. Ever. If they do, you go up the next level in the chain and if it doesn't resolve you go as high as you need to until it does. I don't care what anyone else thinks. We are supposed to be professional - not treat people like they're sub-human.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2020 5:29 PM

2020-09-02T17:29:18-04:00

Thats called an EO violation!

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2020 6:30 PM

2020-09-02T18:30:37-04:00

It never ceases to amaze me how personal some supervisors take this stuff. So you have a shaving profile. So what? They act like that for every one of their personnel that have a shaving profile they are going to get their pay docked by $100 per month. The other part of this is that if the commanding officer has the authority to disregard the medical recommendation, why would he/she? Why would they want to see you in more pain for a medical condition that is not your fault? The way your issue has been handled is definitely not my style of leadership. I wish you the best.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Sep 2 at 2020 7:55 PM

2020-09-02T19:55:16-04:00

Follow the profile.
I had bad second degree burns to my face and I had a shaving profile. I moved on to another unit before I retired - my new CSM called me out in front of my brigade commander. I nodded my head and told the COL that I had a shaving profile but before I could say why the COL told me I was receiving a medal the next day and he wanted me to shave like the CSM said, since he didn't want an 'Unprofessional' NCO in his brigade receiving an award/medal from the Division Commander.
Long story short, I accepted the award with my red and scarred mug from the General. My even more red-faced COL and CSM were there. Once it was all over I asked the commander if I could resume my profile until my scheduled plastic surgery was complete.
I got a yes and that was the end of it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2020 10:23 PM

2020-09-02T22:23:44-04:00

Follow your profile, report your squad leader and your platoon sergeant to the 1SG as well as report the racial remarks made by your squad leader to EO regardless if an apology was insured!!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2020 10:25 PM

2020-09-02T22:25:11-04:00

Being told that you’re like every other black person in the Army who can’t use razors is definitely an EO violation. FYI white people in the Army have shaving profiles as well, razor bumps don’t care about your race.
Your squad leader doesn’t have the authority to give you an article 15 and they don’t have the authority to require you to break a profile. Disrespecting an NCO because you swore in front of them in an Infantry battalion is a pretty far stretch. If you weren’t allowed to say “Fuck this” or “Fuck that” in an infantry battalion the Army would cease to function.

I would strongly encourage you to seek out alternative ways of shaving because, let’s face it, the Army thinks clean shaven = good Soldier. Not that a beard equals a bad Soldier, but a lot of the Army works off of first impressions and sometimes a first impression opens opportunities for you. A good strategy I’ve seen employed is to shave every so often and keep it trimmed low between shavings. A good safety razor and a thorough prep of the surface by using hot towels or a hot shower will also help. But definitely give a shot to the safety razor and going with the grain. The razors are cheaper and sharper than any of those multi blade garbage razors most people use. I have quite a few friends with razor bumps that swear by them. I also use one and I love it.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2020 1:42 AM

2020-09-03T01:42:59-04:00

Report the “like every other black person” comment to your EO rep time now. That NCOs sounds exactly like the type of person we don’t need in the Army. He didn’t make a mistake, he showed you who he truly is.

Response by MSgt Stephen Council made Sep 3 at 2020 2:14 AM

2020-09-03T02:14:17-04:00

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member To be clear, I am not that guy who goes to EO and makes complaints. However, your squad leader clearly violated your rights and military standards with his comment “like every other black person in the army that can’t use razors“! Irrespective of the shaving waiver issue, it is clear to me that your NCOs need a little "education" on how to be fair and unbiased with their soldiers. I advise you to proceed with caution though. When you are making a complaint of this kind, you will have to have all your ducks in a row. If nobody else heard the comment and the NCO denies it, you could be in for a severe, uphill battle. Good luck in your career. Please know that not every NCO you encounter will be like this poor excuse for a NCO.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2020 2:37 AM

2020-09-03T02:37:06-04:00

I’m going to speak out of my online character as I’m reserved and don’t prefer to curse.
Jones, be professional however go out of your way to report and destroy the prejudice NCOs you mentioned. I’m an 11B and for far to long I’ve seen the toxicity in our MOS. I know that type of person and they will fuck with you and wouldn’t hesitate to screw your career up if afforded any chance. Asshole, narcissists with rank. Handle that shit, don’t accept apologies and don’t let it slide. When he’s screwed your job is done. Hopefully your 1SG and Commander aren’t toxic bros too and handle his ass.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Sep 3 at 2020 7:50 AM

2020-09-03T07:50:37-04:00

EO AND/IG...ONLY A CC CAN OVERRIDEA PROFILE. The comment about being like all the other black folks in the Army is totally unacceptable...IF those were his words then you need to go to your command and if they don't do anything about that then you need to go to IG...
just my two cents...comments like that are unacceptable...shave waiver or not!

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Sep 3 at 2020 8:38 AM

2020-09-03T08:38:54-04:00

Sorry you’re dealing with poor leadership. You are required to obey lawful orders, but ordering you to violate a profile is not lawful IMO. You are being ordered to injur a government employee, you. Take advantage of the unit 1st Sgt open door time. He or she can mentor your NCOs. Follow your profile and the regs exactly. Continue to show respect.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2020 1:07 PM

2020-09-03T13:07:40-04:00

I'm a cracker Blonde/white Blue fair skin, I had a shaving profile because no matter how I did it my neck would become inflamed if I tried more often than every 3 days. Had a SgtM get in my face one day about it, as I was trying to get to formation. After Formation I let my chain know about the hassle I'd gotten, never again. Just Keep it as clean as you can. The more facial hair you have the less your mask is going to seal.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Sep 4 at 2020 10:23 AM

2020-09-04T10:23:36-04:00

Totally unacceptable behavior. This needs to be reported up your COC. It seems that you have had the misfortune of landing in a pool of toxic leadership. I can almost guarantee that the squad leader's opinion on shaving profiles has been tainted by the platoon sergeant and maybe higher.
You will seldom here me give advice along these lines, but you've got some bad shit going on there. Get help before they fuck you over. If the platoon sergeant has already ignored your concern, go to the 1SG. If you don't get help there, keep going up the chain until you do.
Above all else, maintain your professionalism. Don't give anyone reason to ding you. Keep yourself squared away in all other aspects. This too shall pass. The overwhelming majority of NCOs in the military are fair and have the welfare of their troops as priority #1. Hang in there. Good luck.

Response by Angela Bates made Sep 4 at 2020 2:10 PM

2020-09-04T14:10:16-04:00

It actually is far more common in Black people to have severe razor bumps or ingrown hair due to the thickness and curl of the hair, but that is all the more reason to understand he may not be able to shave as much and have compassion or at least understanding. It was 100% racist to say that though, acting as though it's some sort of excuse and not a valid issue. I do hope you reported what he said.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2020 2:30 AM

2020-09-06T02:30:48-04:00

Aside from the EO issue, as was mentioned , keep it in regs and make sure your Commander approves the profile (I don’t know of a commander who would override a doctor’s recommendation, particularly a specialist like a dermatologist). With that said, I shared a house with a black officer. He had issues with razor bumps and he used shaving powder. You’ll need to let your face heal first, then if you haven’t tried it, try the powder. It gets rid of the hair without shaving (I believe it works similar to Nair that women use on there legs). Just be prepared because it doesn’t smell very good.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2020 11:40 AM

2020-09-06T11:40:44-04:00

Remember, always maintain your military bearing. That's easier said than done sometimes, but really try hard. The others are right, and if you lose your cool (even in the face of utter ignorance) you're going to potentially create a problem for yourself that didn't exist to begin with. Remember that you have to respect the rank and position of those individuals, even if you're having trouble respecting the person in it. It also tends to earn you respect for maintaining your cool under adverse circumstances. In other words, all a win for you.

Speaking of ignorance, you've dealt with quite a bit. Your NCOs are medically ignorant. Pseudofolliculitis barbae (or razor burn/bumps) is not only painful, it can lead to infection and permanent scarring of the face via keloid formation. So what these folks think is you not wanting to shave is you and your doctor saying you don't want to hurt, or subject you to skin infections or scarring involving the face. And I assure you, as a provider, I don't start sick call and put a sign outside advertising profiles with every visit.

As far as the racial comments, they're ignorant too. Your anger and disappointment is understandable. A number of others on the page are angry just hearing about it. But I'd encourage you to not take the "destroy them" approach as another poster suggested. They're ignorant, and a more effective way of combating ignorance is to correct it. I encourage you to get the help of your local EO rep, 1SG and CO, because they all should be involved. But instead of calling them out, try calling them in, and help them understand why their actions and thoughts were wrong. Firing them and/or throwing them out might ultimately be necessary (and up to the command), because we don't have room or tolerance for that behavior in our military. But then they just go somewhere else and continue to be ignorant, whereas if you change hearts and minds, that pays dividends down the road. Just something to think about.

Response by 1LT Christopher Gonzales made Sep 8 at 2020 8:22 PM

2020-09-08T20:22:39-04:00

Show him a picture of Edward James Olmos and ask him if this is how he wants you to look.

Seriously, there is one person who can disregard a profile: your Company Commander. You’ve done part of the job. Went to your PSG. Now, if I were your PL, this is something I’d want to be looped into. I’d want to know if my NCOs were disregarding a profile so I could take it to the Commander on your behalf. Most importantly, I’d want to know if someone cannot respect people. No tolerance for that shit and I would damn sure want to be looped in as soon as possible.

Response by Kenn Evans made Sep 17 at 2020 4:59 PM

2020-09-17T16:59:30-04:00

If it is of medical necessity, the shaving profile provides for a medical accommodation. Failure to follow the accommodation violates your contract and should be reported through thorough documentation. Failure to follow the shaving profile accommodation can result in permanent facial scaring and infection, in which you could seek damages for. Here is the latest policy revision. https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/tbmed287.pdf

tbmed287.pdf

Response by SGT Logan Clarke made Sep 18 at 2020 1:20 AM

2020-09-18T01:20:01-04:00

Brother listen I don’t give a shit what rank you are first off you have the profile and on top of that for that nco to drop “like every other black person” bull shit he knew he fucked up when he pulled you aside to apologize don’t let them bully you or pressure you there a channels available to use so shut like this doesn’t happen EO is a big deal utilize it

Response by LTC Timothy O'Neill made Sep 18 at 2020 8:50 AM

2020-09-18T08:50:49-04:00

This was a problem in Viet Nam, made worse by the climate and conditions in the field. We didn't handle it any better then.

Response by LTC Timothy O'Neill made Sep 18 at 2020 8:51 AM

2020-09-18T08:51:38-04:00

We had this problem in Viet Nam, made worse by climate and field conditions. We didn't handle it any better then.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Sep 18 at 2020 9:41 AM

2020-09-18T09:41:34-04:00

How does it feel to work for idiots?

Response by SGT Allen Treviranus made Sep 18 at 2020 12:28 PM

2020-09-18T12:28:44-04:00

Your squad leader is not a doctor and you need to file an EO complaint.

Response by PO2 Jon Coulter made Sep 18 at 2020 1:06 PM

2020-09-18T13:06:50-04:00

So many black men have ingrown hairs because of shaving. The chemicals take time to work, and may irritate skin further. If more white petty officers could see what a black man goes through to look squared away, they might be more interested in his combat abilities rather than a pretty face.

Response by SSG Clayton Lam made Sep 18 at 2020 9:30 PM

2020-09-18T21:30:53-04:00

Wow, what a toxic NCO. Apparently he just recites the NCO Creed for boards and to impress people. He obviously has a biased against you and judged you before he knew you. He should be removed from a leadership position or maybe, if he displayed a pattern of this form of racism then he should be recommended for punishment under the UCMJ. You need to report him for the racist comment he made because poor and toxic leaders produce poor and toxic Soldiers. If you don’t report him to EO then you are allowing others to be discriminated against. There is a quote and am not quite sure who said it but I think it may apply “ The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing”. Racism is evil and doesn’t belong in the Army. He obviously doesn’t care about you or your pain and he is failing to do his job which is taking care of Soldiers. Most likely, there are other Soldiers who have been mistreated by him and by reporting him you are probably doing them a favor. You might even give courage to Soldiers who were afraid to speak up because of possible reprisals. Overall, he needs to go.

Response by SGT Terry Brown made Sep 20 at 2020 11:13 AM

2020-09-20T11:13:40-04:00

good for her and thank you for your service.

Response by SGT Terry Brown made Sep 20 at 2020 11:15 AM

2020-09-20T11:15:08-04:00

Good for her and thank you for your service.

Response by CPT Carolyn Andrews made Sep 20 at 2020 11:33 AM

2020-09-20T11:33:52-04:00

Those of the male population doesn't know what others go through upon shaving. I knew of a few white soldiers who have had to get that profile.
As long as you are within your profile your good to go. Don't let your higher ups harness you. If it keeps up turn them in.

Response by CPT Carolyn Andrews made Sep 20 at 2020 12:49 PM

2020-09-20T12:49:10-04:00

Health and welfare of the soldier may cause a soldier to shave.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2020 1:21 PM

2020-09-20T13:21:49-04:00

Since you do have a profile, needs to be signed by the commander and have to have it with at all times.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Sep 20 at 2020 8:41 PM

2020-09-20T20:41:28-04:00

I seriously can't believe this issue is still around. This is one of the first disciplinary cases I faced when I was a new commander in 1980. In the case I was involved with it turned out that a kindly doctor issued the profile but when other doctors got involved the airmen had other options that would eliminate the problem. Guess this is when I first learned to not necessarily trust the first opinion. A shaving profile is fine if backed up by several medical opinions but one shouldn't blindly accept the profile. Ask for advice from other doctors, up the chain if necessary, and honor the profile until you have a final answer.

Response by Cpl James Karraker made Sep 20 at 2020 9:09 PM

2020-09-20T21:09:49-04:00

i can tell this that a marine that was station with found in the reg. that can 6 mouths with a no shaving medical profile he can be medical discharge that in 1976-1977 way in marine barracks

Response by MAJ Van Chase made Sep 20 at 2020 9:45 PM

2020-09-20T21:45:39-04:00

That clown can’t order you to violate your profile. He can get an Article 15.

Response by MAJ Van Chase made Sep 20 at 2020 9:48 PM

2020-09-20T21:48:45-04:00

You can request laser treatment remove the bumps. It just doesn’t work for everyone.

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made Sep 21 at 2020 1:54 AM

2020-09-21T01:54:34-04:00

While I never had a shaving profile myself, I always checked through chain of command when one of my subordinates claimed to have one before calling them out about it. It turns out to have been the correct move because I only found one subordinate who actually lied about it and I issued the order to maintain grooming standards within minutes of finding out. This young airman was put out not long after for many false claims.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2020 7:59 AM

2020-09-21T07:59:06-04:00

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Sep 21 at 2020 8:09 AM

2020-09-21T08:09:29-04:00

If a person has a shaving profile and gets this type of treatment go back to the Doctor and the Medical people, they tend to straighten them out fast ! From a Military Doctor that is an order and if they see sit to interfere with it they may have their own new problem and be subject to punishment themselves under the UCMJ. Orders from a Military Doctor aren't optional and I have seen Doctors light up people that didn't get that. There are people that need that profile, it usually isn't permanent but thats the Doctors call NOT someone that just doesn't like it. There are standards even with a profile but some outgrowth is needed to remedy the problem and shaving isn't a solution to that. Some of the people I've worked with that had those profiles were and remained good troops and they did keep their appearance within standards. The ingrown hairs on some people that have very curly hair can be very painful due to irritation and even infection and this is treatment. The shaving waiver is medical and anyone that can't understand that has some problems of their own in My opinion. Also I think people from the Equal opportunity Office may be able to support You as well.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Sep 21 at 2020 12:25 PM

2020-09-21T12:25:28-04:00

Okay razor's don't work, I get that, I assume you have tried the other stuff? I can't recall the name, but you mix it up leave it on your face for a while and the hairs are dissolved? it may be an option, maybe not.

Response by SSG Conrad Sylvestrelamb made Sep 21 at 2020 3:36 PM

2020-09-21T15:36:50-04:00

Very wrong , but always respond respectfully I have a shaving profile DAFORM 3349 present as needed, copy of with id

Response by SSG Jason Trammell made Sep 21 at 2020 4:30 PM

2020-09-21T16:30:11-04:00

You have an EO complaint on your hands, but, let me reiterate something, that still doesn't let you say whatever you want to say, use your chain of command, go as high as you need to, but, like Col Harris said, get your profile signed and looked over by your commander, Always stay professional in these situations otherwise you could find urself on the otherwise of some UCMJ if you keep going that route, Drive On.

Response by SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret made Sep 21 at 2020 6:08 PM

2020-09-21T18:08:34-04:00

A profile is a profile however it is not perminate, you stated it was until your face healed.
NOW, There is a product that you can put on your face to get rid of the wiskers, it stinks to high heaven but it works. Go to the PX and get the product and use it.

Response by SFC Dave Nutter made Sep 21 at 2020 7:46 PM

2020-09-21T19:46:22-04:00

wow EO complaint at a minimum and i will hold the rest of my opinion cause it to colorful

Response by SFC John Raymond made Sep 21 at 2020 9:53 PM

2020-09-21T21:53:27-04:00

Well Bud your sqd ldr and platoon SFC is some what right. When you are on a profile, that paperwork needs to be on you 100% of the time. We had to teach some black soldiers about saving at night under a got shower and it seemed to work. When you lost your military bearing with your squad leader, you was in the wrong. But profiles are there for a reason and should not be broken. On the other side of that coin a soldier can get in trouble for riding a profile.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2020 10:29 AM

2020-09-22T10:29:42-04:00

File EO complaint and ask to leave that battalion.

Response by LCpl Sandy Moran made Sep 22 at 2020 11:35 AM

2020-09-22T11:35:11-04:00

All I know is my son has a similar problem, and he got a cream that he used to shave with. He applied it on before then after his shave to help cool his face from razor burn. When I was in the service we had a man with the same problem and he too had to shave. Hope this helps. Sorry I don't know what cream he uses

Response by PO3 Jereme Wellbaum made Sep 22 at 2020 11:47 AM

2020-09-22T11:47:25-04:00

Become a Shiek or a Norse Pagan, Get a Beard Waiver, Enjoy the rest of your days in the army with a full proud beard!

Response by SSG Brandon David made Sep 22 at 2020 1:45 PM

2020-09-22T13:45:35-04:00

Fuck no!

1) If you have a no-shaving-profile, don’t shave.
2) If anyone in your chain of command demands that you shave, take the issue up your chain of command.
3) 10 times, out of 10, the reason shit like you just explained happens is because you’re too scared, or confident, to assert your “right(s)”.

Keep your head up and stop letting power-hungry ignorant military soldiers tell you BS.

Good Luck

Response by Cpl Cory McClure made Sep 22 at 2020 2:14 PM

2020-09-22T14:14:04-04:00

Clippers are what you need...I had a No Shave Chit a couple times in my 4 year Service in the Marine Corps but our NCO’s ALWAYS honored the chit...get you some clippers man so that Butt Hole will leave you alone

Response by SFC Terry Bryant made Sep 22 at 2020 11:20 PM

2020-09-22T23:20:33-04:00

Well first off if you have an MILITARY profile, "not a civilian profile" as you have to get to TMC and have an Army Doctor or PA convert ANY profile you have from a civilian doctor to a military one. Only an Army doctor can give you a Military Profile, unless they are a DA civilian who works with the Military. Second of all if you have a Military Profile, no level or chain of command can override a profile. ANY profile. I don't care if it is for a sprang toe they do not have the authority. Second of all if you had ANYONE refer to you as black because of Anything you need to have an EO complaint brought against that person. They have no business being in charge of anything or anyone. Would make no difference if he is white or black that kind of shit has no place in the Military. I know many many black men who can not shave because it is just too painful and have a profile because of them. I also know white and latino men who have them as well. That is not a disqualifying medical condition from active service. Especially when many of those men can out Soldier most anyone else I know. So let me give you some advice. Learn the regulations and rules of being in the Army and never stop learning them because that is what will get you to the highest rank you want to go. Well that and good work ethics and good leadership skills.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2020 11:03 AM

2020-09-23T11:03:33-04:00

Maybe instead of letting it get 1/4" long you should just buzz it daily... before I joined the military I never grew my beard out but I buzzed it all daily.

Response by SPC William Carter made Sep 24 at 2020 2:16 PM

2020-09-24T14:16:56-04:00

A shaving profile is a medical issue bottom line. It can turn into an infection and your leaders can get into serious trouble if it gets worse. The platoon sergeant should know better. Just because they don’t like it for their own reasons is their tough luck. If they keep pushing the issue go up the chain and if that doesn’t work, talk to the I.G. Sometimes you have to look out for yourself.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2020 7:34 PM

2020-09-25T19:34:02-04:00

First of all, WOW! I admire your restraint, respect for the rank and willingness to comply when bidding against a more senior service member. However, they should have verified you had a profile and it was on your person, once verification happened they should have ensured you were still within regulations with what the profile states. Also, that comment regarding race SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED! That is unprofessional behavior on top of the threat of UCMJ (which they cannot do as NCOs have no authority to issue any UCMJ actions) warrants a conversation with the Commander/1SG or at the very least your PSG. Secondly, you should have never used profanity whenever dealing with a situation like this because in the military (many know this to be true but will likely not admit this) when there’s an issue between two members, the lower ranking will always receive punishment if their actions are unprofessional as well.

This person needs to be reported because that type of toxic leadership is not ok especially in this current climate. They seriously need to do some self-reflecting and be removed from that position if this is how they treat soldiers.

My last piece of advice, you need to read every publication you can regarding the rules and regulations. I’m speaking of UCMJ, dress codes, etc. Do your research and protect yourself in the event another situation like this occurs. You will be better equipped to deal with this situation and know what these “leaders” can and cannot do. As always, maintain your professionalism, practice restraint and be respectful even when others are not. If you must deal with it, they have leaders that will address this. Beat of luck!!

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Army DA administrative publications and forms by the Army Publishing Directorate APD. The latest technologies high quality electronic pubs and forms view U.S. Army Regulations and DA Forms.

Response by SFC Charles Woods made Sep 28 at 2020 2:29 PM

2020-09-28T14:29:29-04:00

First off I am retired a long time.So some of what I have to say may not apply,but my PSG had razor bumps,and if he used a razor the bumps got worse.The local PX sold a product called Magic shaving powder that he could and did use.White powder user simlply dampened the powder applied it,then it could be wiped off or scraped off with a plastic knife.Smelled bad,worked well,he only used it about three times a week.I saw the same product in the PX at JBLM a couple years ago,the container said they had gotten rid of the bad smell.The N.C.O that was giving you a hard time about your profile should reported up the CoC.axxholes like that cause a lot of problems for everyone.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Oct 9 at 2020 1:50 PM

2020-10-09T13:50:06-04:00

I don't think we had a shaving protocol when I was in but if there is one and you have it I don't see how you can be forced to. Now the way he expressed his order is just purely racist and I know that is against the regulations so while I was handling my complaint to a superior on that I would also add that to my complaint.

Response by SFC Terrence Griffin made Oct 28 at 2020 6:14 PM

2020-10-28T18:14:57-04:00

I'm gonna be honest with you...if you plan on staying in the military and becoming a senior NCO you gonna have to come off that profile and figure something out.I know shaving can be hard for us Brothers with the hairs curling back in but trust me trying to make E-7 with a shaving profile is even harder....

Response by CW3 Kenneth Henderson made Oct 28 at 2020 6:22 PM

2020-10-28T18:22:36-04:00

The top answer to your question is "No, this isn't right". When a medical doctor issues a physical profile regardless of reason, the individual soldier can get in big trouble for violating that profile. Your chain of command should know that.
Having said that, I served on an MOS Medical Review Board(MMRB) that evaluated soldiers with medical profiles to determine whether that condition was sufficient to warrant the soldier being discharged, or remaining on active duty. The board also had a medical officer as a member. I remember a case of a young black Sergeant that came to us with a shaving profile. He was clean shaven, and looked incredible. It appears he and his dermatologist had developed a treatment that provided him relief sufficient to clear his skin of the condition. We applauded the soldier and his dermatologist, both of whom were serving in the First Cavalry Division at the time. You may want to inquire of your dermatologist to see if he or she is familiar with any such treatment. Good luck, and I wish you well.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2020 4:48 AM

2020-10-29T04:48:03-04:00

No this isn't right at all. Sounds like you have some Toxic leaders within your formation. I personally don't like shaving profiles as most SM don't know how to keep an unshaven face looking presentable. But, that being said your Team Leader, Squad Leader, PSG, Hell even your 1SG nor your CDR can over rule a Doctors Profile. They may discuss with the Doctor and try to have it reevaluated but they can not over rule it. Now you getting a Perm shaving profile right off the bat is not how the system is supposed to work, It is supposed to be a process with a temp profile and trying different things from the dermatologist. A perm profile for shaving normally takes about 6 to 8 months if done correctly. I would do a couple things. 1. talk to your EO representative (as the comment made by your SQD LDR is concerning) 2. Go back to your dermatologist and ask for other courses of action, things to try. 3. talk with others who have the same issue and how they deal with it.

Response by Sgt Ed Beal made Oct 29 at 2020 3:54 PM

2020-10-29T15:54:52-04:00

No you don’t need to use a razor but you still need keep it trimmed close almost all beers trimmers or hair trimmers will get as close as 1/16 or closer this is not shaving and it will not affect your skin. So I would say yes you need to cut it shorter or shave your choice.

Response by LTC Karen McKay made Oct 29 at 2020 10:31 PM

2020-10-29T22:31:52-04:00

Maybe you should find another career field--someplace that does not have the grooming standards of the military.

Response by PFC Shannon Evans made Oct 30 at 2020 6:13 PM

2020-10-30T18:13:08-04:00

You can also get an article 15 for not follow a profile. You are not following a direct order of your physician. I suggest if the problem persist with your chain of command you have a visit with the profile issuing physician and let them know what you are encountering. I was a combat medic that also worked in the local clinic to keep my skills up and continue my education in other classes such as how to give and treat shaving profiles and applying casts etc. Good luck Pvt2. Don't let a few bad eggs get you down and especially don't let them treat you differently due to your race. I had issues being a female medic in an infantry unit I was given a lot of grief when I required special sleeping quarters and shower facilities when in the field. Stay strong!

Response by MSG Scott Johnson made Oct 31 at 2020 10:51 AM

2020-10-31T10:51:37-04:00

Thiese two NCOs coerced you into breaking a profile. They're subject to NJP for that. But, most Glaring, you need to contact your PL and Commander about discrimination. If they do nothing, go to your EOA.

Response by SPC Anitra Bailey-Bearfield made Oct 31 at 2020 2:43 PM

2020-10-31T14:43:00-04:00

A profile is a profile for a reason, it is not that you don't want to but you can't, I had a profile because I tore my knees up running on concrete everyday and none of my superior could say anything because I had severe issues with my knees and was in physical therapy and the military doctors wanted to give the cartilage in my knees time to heal ie, no running profile and I never had a issue, my first sergeant stopped me once because I was not running with the company and asked me why I wasn't running I told him I had a no running profile, I showed it to him he said okay and to take it easy and went about his business. If your superior made that racist statement which in fact is a racist statement then you need to report it to his superior and if it isn't hands file a EO complaint because that was racist and unprofessional and when you are supervising soldiers you need be professional because lower enlisted soldiers are looking up to them. Good luck soldier

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2020 2:56 PM

2020-10-31T14:56:35-04:00

This has EO written all over and you need to make a complaint! Don't wait or blow it off.

Response by SFC Carlos Rivera made Nov 1 at 2020 6:12 AM

2020-11-01T06:12:58-05:00

PV2 Jones,

Sorry to hear your situation and the complete ignorance of your squad leader. Unfortunately, many soldiers assume what they think or heard is the correct answer. The most important weapon you could acquire for your military career is knowledge. Do not go by what you heard before or believe should be right. Gather the information right from the Army Regulations, and read the whole paragraphs and not only the sentence that may prove your point. Understand what the regulation is addressing before you quote the Army Regulation. It seems your unit needs a lot of training to address this type of behavior from the Senior NCO's to lower enlisted.

About your issue,
First of all, you need to address this to your Platoon Sergeant and inform him that you want to use your Commander's open-door policy. You must bring this to the Commander's attention, as it seems that this may be happening without his knowledge and if he wasn't afraid and scream this to you, then is the norm there, and the Commander is losing control of his unit.
The Doctor wrote a profile that informs your Commander of the limitations you may have. The Commander may analyze the Doctor's recommendation and grant you the request from the Doctor. In my 20+ years of experience, nine out of 10 the Command does not oppose the Doctor's advice. But with this said, it's the Commander authority, not your squad leader authority, and if you Platoon Sergeant agreed with the statement made by his squad leader, it shows his lack of experience or knowledge.
Second, you need to contact the Equal Opportunity for the racial statement that is not acceptable "like every other black person in the army that can't use razors." If you don't address it now, this squad leader will continue this behavior with you and with others. You should not accept another verbal apology from him as he disrespected you in front of many, and there should be many witnesses of his statements. The problem is if he treats you like this during a non-stressful environment, imagine how he is going to treat you in a combat situation and how he will value your life.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2020 1:25 PM

2020-11-01T13:25:18-05:00

Permanent profiles do not need to be signed by the commander only temporary profiles do since it is basically a doctor recommending a course of action to the soldiers commander. Permanent profiles are not recommendations like a temporary profile, and normally they are signed by at a Lieutenant Colonel or above making a permanent medical diagnosis. Comnanders don't have the authority to make a soldier ignore that profile like they do with a temporary. As far as the racial comments, that needs to be reported ASAP.

Response by Stephen Bracken made Nov 1 at 2020 1:55 PM

2020-11-01T13:55:30-05:00

Some of these responses don't give me a warm feeling that we can win in combat. EEO complaint? Lol

Response by Maj Dale Smith made Nov 1 at 2020 3:09 PM

2020-11-01T15:09:34-05:00

You have a medical issue that is signed off by a military doctor. If your MOS does not call for you to be clean shaven which would require a change of MOS, then you have handled this correctly. If you are still receiving letters of repremand for this, go to your company NCO and if you get no relief from this office, go to the staff of the Batallion. If you are black, you might want to seek out a black NCO to run interference for you. I had women under my command that couldn't wear bras because of dermatology issues. In a case like this, I found a female TSGT to handle the issue. In this case, the young A1C (E-3) did not have a medical letter and the TSGT rectified the situation. You have one and your shaving could present an infection situation rendering you NMR.

Response by PO2 Lawrence Janiec made Nov 6 at 2020 10:58 AM

2020-11-06T10:58:17-05:00

You should ask the NCO in question if he requires Soldiers who have facial injuries due to an IED or a fire and part of their face is burned... does this NCO require that Soldier to run a razor over his face, too? (But yes, that's racist af and you should report it all the way up the chain of command and report everyone who sided with this racist pos as well.)

Response by SSG(P) Danielle Birtha made Nov 10 at 2020 2:48 PM

2020-11-10T14:48:37-05:00

pfffttt... I had a (male) soldier in my platoon with a shaving profile. He was NOT combat ready, because he couldn't wear a gas mask and get a seal. He was also Caucasian.
Shaving bumps are not confined to a certain skin color... but to a certain hair type... CURLY.
What is the primary cause of shaving bumps? SHAVING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, and using anything with alcohol on your face!
Men... IF you get bumps (beard hairs trapped under the skin), use (Real) Lemon juice as an after shave. It is antiseptic, aseptic, and antibiotic... it heals nicks as it keeps the skin soft, so hairs don't get trapped under dry skin... it's also better than any anti-acne product offered.
It also removes old skin, allowing new healthy skin, keeping your face tight and young as you get old... throw out your expensive anti-aging creams women... the simple lemon is all you need...
apply a thin film of REAL lemon juice to your skin one hour before bedtime... let dry... rinse off in the morning... wake up looking ten years younger... use twice per week ... enjoy the youthful Natural look, and the compliments, when you tell them you are 30 years older than you look ;)

Response by SPC Nils Hammer made Dec 2 at 2020 1:32 AM

2020-12-02T01:32:29-05:00

In my 1970s basic the guys in your position showed me the depilatory they used. Sorry I foget the name of it. I'd think that you ought to tell the sqd ldr that you are following orders of the doctor, who probably outranks him.

Response by SP5 Richard Welch made Dec 4 at 2020 3:39 PM

2020-12-04T15:39:35-05:00

No it's not right, and recieving an Article15 for swearing at your NCO is BS. He's obviously not ready to be an NCO, or Platoon Leader because he doesn't understand basic Army regulations. A shaving profile is given because of possible infection's and worse from forced shaving. That being said, my facial hair was very quick to grow, and I sometimes had to shave twice a day to avoid getting hasseled. Your Platoon Sargent is not doing his job, and if he backs an NCO that doesn't follow basic Army regulations, than that's all anyone needs to know about him. You squad leaders use of the phrase 'like every other black person in military' is discrimination and he should be brought up on charges. I suggest you go to Army legal aide and file charges of discrimination against him and your Platoon Sargent. Nothing worse than an idiot using racial slurs to denegrate a soldier. Have you talked to your First Sargent and or your Battalion Sargent Major about this?

Response by MSG Clyde Mills made Dec 5 at 2020 12:32 AM

2020-12-05T00:32:09-05:00

If you indeed have a shaving Profile, then the answer is (NO) you do not have to shave, but you do have to keep the facial hair cut to a certain length with a pair of scissors that the issuing Profile PA will give you. I had this happen to one of my soldier's I had in one of my Platoons when I was serving back in my active day's. He had to trim the facial hair with the scissors as close to the face as he could and believe me it took quite awhile for him to do it. Just to stay within the guidelines of the Profile. he later told me he'd of much rather of kept on shaving if he'd of known how much harder it was to trim the entire face with the scissors.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Dec 6 at 2020 1:42 AM

2020-12-06T01:42:45-05:00

A shaving profile is issued ONLY for medical reasons which You had and No one has the authority to ignore what a Doctor has ordered. It seems IAW the Regulations You kept it within the length limits specified and allowed for that treatment to work. Your Squad Leader apparently fails to understand why it was allowed, because it was Medical Treatment prescribed by a MD, Medical Doctor and NOT an option. Unless the Medical people remove the order it is just that an order and actually that Squad Leader could have been subject to Disciplinary action Himself for His response. I've seem Doctors straighten out a few people Who had responded in such a manner about the force of a Medical waiver order. One man I worked with had the condition, it wasn't going away and He had a substance that He applied and removed with a butter knife which of course had no sharp edge, not being a Doctor I don't know if that would work with everybody though nor would I try to second guess them.

Response by SFC Tim OReilly made Dec 6 at 2020 9:29 AM

2020-12-06T09:29:04-05:00

I've been out 20 plus years ... but back when a dr was an officer and a squad leader an plt sgts were nco s ... so the officer won, in fact I was told that it was illegal to break a profile

Response by SFC Tim OReilly made Dec 6 at 2020 9:31 AM

2020-12-06T09:31:18-05:00

Oh yes, so complaint an forget about him getting you on any charges ... but do maintain a professional ... attitude, at least on the outside

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2020 5:34 PM

2020-12-06T17:34:57-05:00

I would like to give you some practical advise to help you in the future:

1. I agree with everyone else that this is an EO violation and is definitely reportable to whomever in your unit is your EO Officer/NCOIC. This is not acceptable behavior from an NCO.
2. NCOs do not have the authority to override a profile - only your commander does. NCOs do have the authority to ensure you are maintaining your profile correctly, so don't think that you couldn't be mandated to trim your facial hair to the appropriate length IAW your profile by an NCO in the future if it was deemded an issue. I do not think his approach was appropriate, nor is the proper way to counsel a subordinate if there truly was an issue.
3. Make sure you keep a copy of your valid profile on you. This way there will never be a question of "he said, she said". I would not necessarily yell back at an NCO, but you can definitely indicate that you will not violate a valid profile and you are within your rights to do so until your commander overrides it.
4. I would also recommend looking at some of Dollar Shave Club's Dr Carver's Shave Butter for when you do have to trim and such. I had such bad skin issues shaving everyday, and honestly this stuff is a life saver. Shameless plug, but still.

Response by PO1 Charles Coffee made Dec 6 at 2020 6:38 PM

2020-12-06T18:38:28-05:00

Ist- the shaving profile was give to you by a Dermatologist...who is a Army Officer. The profile is an order give you by an office. The NCO needs to be brought up on charges for his racism, disrespect, and his disregard for an Officers order!!! This is an on going problem in all branches of the service when it comes to medical orders. My first question for the NCO would be...what year did you graduate from medical school. So, have him brought up on an article 15!!!

Response by CPL Gary Dishman made Dec 7 at 2020 10:44 PM

2020-12-07T22:44:55-05:00

Back when I was in we had a few in the company that had the same problems and if you keep it as short as you can and looking decent then he shouldn't have anything to say . But if it looks like mine then I would be telling you to keep it within army reg's and not a hobo .

Response by SGT Alan Dike made Dec 14 at 2020 9:09 AM

2020-12-14T09:09:45-05:00

1. Sounds like your NCO forgot the NCO creed. His actions are unprofessional, and yes.. even racist. File an EO complain with your company EEO officer... not optional. Our service doesn't need that type of crap happening, period.

2. Quarter inch is max on a shaving profile.. I suggest getting a good set of oster or wahl trimmers and get a 40 blade for them.. It's what vet's use to shave pre-surgery. That should keep your squad leader happy without the irritation.. If you experience irritation, move up one blade size, say a 10 blade (~ 2mm length after cut.... 1/4" is ~6mm). Maintain the blade (meaning weekly disassembly and oiling) and they'll last you longer than your term of service. Yes, it costs you a little bit of money... dont cheap out on your clippers. That said, it shows you're complying to regulation as much as possible from within your profile and it should keep NCO's off your back.

Response by SPC Clayton Ellzey made Dec 16 at 2020 1:23 AM

2020-12-16T01:23:51-05:00

I feel your pain I had same issue but it was my 1st Sgt who gave me hell about my profile.
He also was black but he pulled me aside and showed me how he shaved and after care .Never had a need for it again

Response by CPT Brad Wilson made Dec 16 at 2020 1:47 AM

2020-12-16T01:47:41-05:00

I have heard of shaving profiles but never knew anyone that had one but I would never harass someone that had one. I also had served with black soldiers and had black instructors at many schools I attended and none of them had a shaving profile so his comment is false But that comment is a definite EO offense and is more serious than not shaving and needs to be addressed. As others have said if there were no witnesses it will be hard to prove but if he has made similar comments to others and they have reported it then it will show a pattern of behavior. Hopefully it was just a moment of stupidity and doesn’t happen again

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Dec 21 at 2020 11:04 AM

2020-12-21T11:04:32-05:00

You have a written order ( Shaving Profile ) and most are written and signed by and officer. I one see and EO Complaint and two IG visit. Three being told to ignore a written order? Who in the hell do these NCO's think they are anyway you NEVER ignore a written order Unless it is a violation of Health and Safety.

Response by SPC Steve Bryant made Dec 24 at 2020 11:54 AM

2020-12-24T11:54:01-05:00

That is the classic example of toxic leadership. They are correct that in the infantry world, being different usually cripples the career. However, you are a supply specialist that is responsible for helping them navigate the Army supply chain to help them get what they need. Any other unit (non-combat arms) you were assigned to would most likely not have a problem following the orders of a shaving profile. You did the right thing. Even though that dude deserves to lose his leadership position saying racist shit like that, sounds like you mostly kept your cool. The other senior leaders on this post seem to have good advice for you. The Army is in need of leaders who understand their soldiers, and can apply their strengths to the appropriate places, rather than continually tear down useful people that don't conform to their image/definition of what something is.

Response by SPC Robert Bobo made Dec 28 at 2020 10:31 PM

2020-12-28T22:31:34-05:00

I have never had a problem shaving and about 80% of the other black men shaved as well however, a couple did have profiles in my company also my oldest son has to use special order shaving supplies as he has had some shaving challenges while my youngest has never had shaving issues, it does affect some Black Americans but not all. My thoughts are find a solution and pick your battles, I was in the corporate world at a high level for 42 years and "beards were discouraged" , I built a reputation for being a company man that got things done, not the executive with a beard, I retired as one of a few company SVP's in USA

Response by SSgt Randall Matheny made Dec 31 at 2020 4:53 PM

2020-12-31T16:53:51-05:00

Short answer: Your squad leader and your platoon sergeant are wrong. They are putting you between a rock and a hard place. Either you back down and shave, in which case they have successfully abused you, or you file a complaint, in which case you will be known as a bellyacher. My advice is file the complaint and let the chips fall where they may. Then put forth 100%+ and prove your mettle as a soldier. That will shut everyone up but the other soldiers who will respect you for your service.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2021 8:05 AM

2021-01-01T08:05:24-05:00

It’s a medical condition they will just have to her over it.

Response by COL Jeff Del Fuoco made Jan 1 at 2021 8:08 AM

2021-01-01T08:08:46-05:00

If this crap continues, I'd recommend that you take a look at Article 138 of the UCMJ. Consult with the JAG shop if you need to, but Article 138 should stop it in its tracks. Note that it is an extreme measure, meant only for the egregious situation. Check it out.

Response by PFC James Edward VERNON jr made Jan 1 at 2021 12:12 PM

2021-01-01T12:12:36-05:00

DOES NOT MATTER, BLACK, WHITE, BROWN, BLUE, YELLOW, ETC. A "SHAVING PROFILE" MEANS NO SHAVING. I HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM IN THE LATE 60s(1969), MY PLATOON SGT. MADE ME "DRY SHAVE" THE PEACH FUZZ OFF MY FACE IN THE CHOW LINE. I NEVER GOT A "PROFILE" AND EVEN TODAY AT 71 I CAN GO DAYS WITHOUT SHAVING.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2021 6:29 PM

2021-01-01T18:29:04-05:00

It is kinda funny because it seems like every colored person gets a shaving profile but anyways no if you got a shaving profile permanently then they can’t tell you to shave. However if your senior NCO or your team/ squad leader wants you to shave you should. Reason being is if you want to make a career out of this it would make it a lot easier to just shave

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made Jan 2 at 2021 7:28 AM

2021-01-02T07:28:46-05:00

Known several people with your medical condition, including myself, when I was in the army and the navy. I'm a white guy but as a young man I had very curly whiskers. To a man, they either started shaving, including me, or got out. The prejudice against beards was just too great. It's not right and you can buck it and maybe win, you're in the right. Problem is that chain of command will give you subtle downchecks on evals and not list that as the reason. I saw that happen time and again.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Jan 2 at 2021 3:06 PM

2021-01-02T15:06:24-05:00

No, it's not right that your squad leader and platoon sgt treat you this way. They don't know the pain "bumps" can cause. The demonology clinic issued you a shaving waiver, they have to honor it. One of the shaving razor companies has a new razor blade out, that is designed to ease the pain of shaving with bumps. Check the BX/Commissary for those blades.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2021 4:04 PM

2021-01-02T16:04:26-05:00

I cannot speak for other branches but the Marine Corps has guidelines to accommodate for personnel with a “shave chit”. As long as you are within those guidelines set, you are within regulation.

Response by 1SG Donald Elmore made Jan 2 at 2021 6:09 PM

2021-01-02T18:09:07-05:00

During my time in hte Army 1955 to 1975, if the Doctor gave a buck slip to not shave, no NCO or Officer could make you shave. In 1974 we had a black SP5 that got a buck slip to not shave due to ingrown hairs. He went to the barber for a haircut and a beard trim. The barber reported to me, (I was his First sergeant) and I spoke to him and orderd him to go back to the doctor. His bead was full of body lice. The doctor pulled the buck slip and told him he had to shave and treat the lice condition and then treat the ingrown hair problem. H never got another buck slip.

Response by CW3 Michael Hess made Jan 2 at 2021 6:36 PM

2021-01-02T18:36:55-05:00

No, they don’t give one to anyone. There has to be a medical reason. I understand your NCOs point of view but that is an opinion and if he ain’t a Dermatologist he has no business getting involved. The NCO would be best served if he worked with you and the medical field to clear up your condition. You might be able to move to a different job???

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2021 1:33 PM

2021-01-03T13:33:57-05:00

I'm sorry you're experiencing this leadership. Like others suggested, file an EO complaint. Also if your platoon SGT just dismissed it and said to listen to your squad leader, and that doesn't satisfy you, your Commander likely has an open door policy. You can go to him or her and ask if you can use their open door policy (rather than go thru the Chain of Command), and inform them of this situation while also asking them to sign your profile.. If this was happening in my ranks, I would want to know. Good luck!

Response by PO3 James Bobiney made Jan 3 at 2021 4:14 PM

2021-01-03T16:14:40-05:00

Bully and disrespectful NCO's/Officers like that is why alot of younger people have told me they will not go into the Military.
But he made a racial slur and regardless of his apology, I'd complain about it. He sounds like a jerk with a capital "J". He obviously has no respect or concern for your medical condition. I've dealt with "ass hats" like that when I was in also. We would contact the chain of command, gather, and have meetings. One Platoon Sgt(E7) was removed for constantly making racial slurs towards any other race than his(he was black). Because of our actions in the correct manner he was relieved.
Anyway, I see this thread is four months old. I hope you somehow resolved the matter at hand.

Response by PV2 Michael Straub made Jan 3 at 2021 4:16 PM

2021-01-03T16:16:45-05:00

Hell no! Don't put up with any of the remarks you heard. Many black people are prone to bumps from shaving, need to use creams, or nothing! I must say though, that I have actually seen a private booted for not being able to shave, so figure out what you want to do quickly, or your life will be hell in the military! About the moron that said "Like every other black person in the Army," fight your impulse to smack him across his face (Then, you'd be wrong,) but tell him, the next time he makes any sort of reference to your color in a negative manner, you'll report the incident. This let's him know, that you just cut him some slack, but also, that you won't put up with that BS!

Response by PO1 Richard Mecom made Jan 3 at 2021 8:37 PM

2021-01-03T20:37:59-05:00

Just say it is religious. Put a towel on your head

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Jan 3 at 2021 9:52 PM

2021-01-03T21:52:39-05:00

No it is not right. You should complain to your Sergeant Major, when you speak to him you tell him you have already spoke to the platoon sergeant, and you did not wish to go up the chain of command, because you feel this is enlisted business. I would also mention the racist comment made by your squad leader. If he retaliates, you then need to request, via the command chain, a transfer to another company.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2021 7:08 AM

2021-01-04T07:08:40-05:00

Let me know if you would like for me to contact your unit to get this situation handled.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2021 7:20 AM

2021-01-04T07:20:16-05:00

It was not an issue with us. An alternate, such as shaving powder was allowed. If you have a no shaving profile from a Dr. that should not be challenged. https://dermnetnz.org/topics/folliculitis-barbae/#:~:text=Pseudofolliculitis%20barbae%20is%20a%20foreign,shaving%20rash%20or%20razor%20bumps.

Page not found | DermNet NZ

DermNet provides Google Translate, a free machine translation service. Note that this may not provide an exact translation in all languages

Response by CW3 Joseph Lawrence made Jan 4 at 2021 6:26 PM

2021-01-04T18:26:29-05:00

I was witness to this problem in Germany from 1968 thru 1971 and the First Sergeant knew of the problem and said as long as the soldier is neat and orderly he sees no problem with the profile. I agree. I have seen profiles for a number of reasons and in most cases they don't prevent the soldier from doing his/her job. The individual muttering under his breath should be reported to the C.O. and disciplinary action taken.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2021 7:26 PM

2021-01-04T19:26:57-05:00

I hope this has been resolved satisfactorily. However, if it is not, you can contact me and I will ensure it is resolved. The first thing you should do is not shave, but ensure you maintain standards for wearing the beard. The next thing you will need to do is make sure you do not talk back to your NCOs, whether it is in in front of anyone or in private. Don't say anything derogatory to your teammates about your NCOs. You don't need that coming down. When your NCO asks you to shave, tell him you cannot and show him a copy of the profile. When you need to, speak to the Platoon Leader. If your PL does not take care of it like your PSG should have, you can give your PL my information and I will find the time to set him straight. But work this through your chain of command as much as you can before taking it outside the CoC.

Response by SGT Charles Mitchell made Jan 5 at 2021 6:31 PM

2021-01-05T18:31:25-05:00

i,m white and i had a shaving profile in the 70s coming back from Nam was station in St Paul when i got the profile they can't over step a officer.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2021 3:54 AM

2021-01-07T03:54:50-05:00

Racism aside I'd suggest finding a good barber who can give you a close enough shave that doesn't break off the hairs or pull them out. The problem a lot of Africans have with regular razors is that they'll pull hairs or break them beneath the surface of the skin and cause ingrown hairs and thus worlds of hurt to the face. A good barber should be able to shave those chin hairs close enough but to where it won't cause irritation. You can (and should) definitely take this up the ranks though for the blatant racism. His apology was false in that he said sorry but then was like do it anyway and acted like a child when you reacted with understandable anger.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2021 4:13 AM

2021-01-07T04:13:05-05:00

Had to log in for this one: Go to your Company or Battalion EOL.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2021 6:37 AM

2021-01-07T06:37:13-05:00

That is not correct at all. I have a soldier and he has a profile for shaving and he walks around with a full beard but he does shave here and there when it’s important but I don’t advise him to shave because I know that it really does hurt if you don’t know how to do it correctly. I hate people that try to use there little rank because they feel like it and you can definitely make a complaint on him for being racist cause how is it okay for you to say what you want to a soldier but want him to still respect you.

Response by MSG Michael McEleney made Jan 7 at 2021 6:03 PM

2021-01-07T18:03:12-05:00

The Dermatologist is at least a Captain and Physician. Your Squad Leader a SSgt and your Platoon Sergeant an SFC. A medical order is just as binding as any other.

Response by CMSgt Donald ONeill made Jan 7 at 2021 9:45 PM

2021-01-07T21:45:44-05:00

Use a daily moisturizing product that contains salicylic acid or glycolic acid to keep the hairs growing in the right direction .I think working with your platoon leader showing you are making a effort to correct the problem . Being in the Infantry always a chance of being in combat as myself in Vietnam I didn't have to shave . LOL All the best to you and your career .

Response by SFC Howard Holmes made Jan 7 at 2021 10:41 PM

2021-01-07T22:41:59-05:00

It is against military regulation for anyone to give you an order to break a profile. I would imagine the only exception is in a combat situation where lives are on the line, but again, you shouldn't be in that situation either. If I remember correctly, them giving you an order to break the order of a profile is a USMJ violation. You also have an EO complaint, thought it's your word against the Squad Leader's word. As far as cussing him out, that is where part of self discipline comes in. Even if the NCO deserves it, in the long run, practicing self discipline makes you a better soldier and a better person.

Response by 1SG Chad Mcdaniel made Jan 8 at 2021 10:11 AM

2021-01-08T10:11:22-05:00

I'm appalled by the racist comment a NCO used. There is no place in MY ARMY (yes my Army any one who serves/served should feel that way) for this type of racism. The NCO apologized later for one simple reason, the NCO knew they were wrong on so many levels. This NCO apologized to try keep you from reporting the misconduct. Sorry for the rant NCOs like this simply disgust me. As for the profile someone did say the Commander must sign it and with that if the Commander chooses to override the profile that should be after discussion with the profile writer. And if the commander chooses not to sign or abide by the profile the do so at their own risk, meaning that they would be responsible if shit went sideways. But if you have a legit profile then no worries pertaining to your Squad Leader and Platoon Sergeant. If they force you to shave they will knowingly be violating your profile and they will be subject to UCMJ. If you knowing violate your profile you are subject to UCMJ. Be tactful watch your tone and your demeanor when being addressed about your shaving situation and for sure dont curse as that tends to be seen as disrespect.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2021 4:18 PM

2021-01-08T16:18:40-05:00

I’m part of my command’s CMEO, you need to report that comment about “like every other black person” it’s unprofessional and disrespectful

Response by CPL Veteran Lawrence made Jan 9 at 2021 10:45 AM

2021-01-09T10:45:38-05:00

Just hope the NBC mask has a tight seal around the face if ever a bio/chem/nuclear happened.
Sounds like the gentleman has been cursed with bad acne and or allergic to metal creams or plastic or all above.
One would figure with all the "new" technology and scientific knowledge available that the issue of shaving would have been resolved by now. Try a liquid hair remover. As far as the ignorant response, knowledge stamps out ignorance.
However, "wiillful ignorance" proves evidence of fault. There are people all across the human spectrum on this planet that have the skin/shaving irritation issue, not just one protected group. So get better educated. If infighting is allowed to continue within the ranks due to bad perceptions, hidden jealousies, willful ignorant thinking and "whose better than whom" ideologies, and allowed to continue to fester, then might as well not have a military at all. It is defunct from the beginning. Always remember there will be those who will take negative advantage of a needful situation/solution for self-serving ends. Waiting it out without solving the skin hygiene issue just causes needles problems and hassles for everyone involved.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2021 3:21 AM

2021-01-10T03:21:21-05:00

For good reason there are various medical reasons one cannot serve in the military. Blind, low IQ, handicapped...... When it comes time to dawn your MOPP gear you would become a casualty.

Response by SP5 Robert Hayhurst made Jan 10 at 2021 10:56 AM

2021-01-10T10:56:05-05:00

Gee go spec forces and become a operator they grow beards. What's the big deal here?

Response by SSG Bob Teachout made Jan 11 at 2021 2:02 AM

2021-01-11T02:02:24-05:00

All I know is that shaving profiles are not limited to black GI's
I had a shaving profile for about 30 days and the last time I checked - I am white!

Response by SPC Clayton Ellzey made Jan 21 at 2021 12:02 PM

2021-01-21T12:02:54-05:00

Try magic shave also it stinks some but gets job done

Response by CPT Kevin Connolly made Jan 31 at 2021 10:03 AM

2021-01-31T10:03:56-05:00

Your squad leader and platoon sergeant think they are standing up for the Army values. You should do the same and go up the CoC because racist leaders are toxic anhd they need to go bye-bye. In my book, they both warrant BCDs because this kind of racism needs to move to Russia, where they will be appreciated.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2021 7:56 PM

2021-01-31T19:56:57-05:00

Read the profile man, the only person who is allowed to tell you to shave is your unit commander and only when there is an actual danger of exposure to a toxic environment. Also see Med Tech bulletin 287 which is what covers this.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Feb 1 at 2021 1:30 AM

2021-02-01T01:30:42-05:00

Okay. First off. You need to read AR 670-1. There is a section that covers shaving. Even though you have a profile, the hair on your face can only be a specific thickness that is specified in the reg. So LOOK THAT UP!! Next, your squad leader did say something foul, and he addressed that. That DID NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT to say what you said thereafter. Respect goes BOTH WAYS. The squad leader showed you that respect when he pulled you to the side, and apologized to you. STUDY THAT REG!! You'll be a better Soldier for it.

Response by SFC Cynthia Eyer made Feb 6 at 2021 7:24 PM

2021-02-06T19:24:06-05:00

I see three violations in the transactions that occurred:
1.) When you stated that your supervising NCO cussed you out, did he use curse words. He doesn’t have the right to disrespect you in that manner and the regulations clearly state that a ranking person may not use their position to berate and harass.
2.) What he stated to you under his breath is a direct violation of EEO regulation.
3.) No one can make you violate your medical profiles. Anyone who does is in direct violation of disobeying a lawful order and can be held liable for HEPA violations as well.
Please write up all that transpired and report it up your chain, to include your physician of care. If they are doing this to you, they are doing to others and will continue. It is up to every Soldier to bring to light violations that cause harm to others. Keep a paper trail of everything. This is what courage is—to be willing to stand in the face of this type of fear and shed light on it.

Response by Sgt Eric Dixon made Feb 8 at 2021 3:24 PM

2021-02-08T15:24:23-05:00

I also had a shaving waiver in my early days of enlistment. Throughout the years I have discovered that no man of African descent should use anything other than SAFETY RAZORS. Only one blade is in contact with the hair and skin. It may require you to shave more often but it's far less traumatic to the skin than 2, 3 and 4 blades on your skin. If that still proves to be an issue, use an edger and shave in one direction only- downward. As for the Drill Instructor - you need to see a commissioned officer about.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2021 2:58 PM

2021-02-09T14:58:47-05:00

Not right those shaving profiles are directive by the medical staff doctor signature officer, the squad leader but know the regulations, and not being such a bully! Leadership starts with Be, know, and do, follow the regulations. Shaving profile gave provision some related to health to the individual facial hair, some guideline dispict 1.8 inches as specified on the private profile. But last but not least the squad leader can advised the private to always make copies and keep in the soldiers medical records for future references! Say no to bully unthinking squad leaders!

Response by SGT Teddy Holtry made Feb 9 at 2021 7:57 PM

2021-02-09T19:57:50-05:00

He is wrong, you should not have cursed him, that is YOUR eff-up, , but profiles are there for a reason. I was in Infantry 27 years, as a D I and Gitmo Panama and all the way to Iraq, you can see the bumps,and pain and when I was in Panama, heat and tropics accentuate the cut bumps into open sores risking infection, HE could get into trouble, multiple counts, least of which is damaging Government property, heh heh

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2021 7:24 AM

2021-02-10T07:24:59-05:00

No one can make you brake your profile. Your profile sick slip DD form 689 is a command order by a commissioned officer (army doctor). And anyone including you who is found to brake that order is guilty and punishable under UCMJ OF THE MCM.

Response by SFC Dwight Beaver made Feb 10 at 2021 8:26 AM

2021-02-10T08:26:18-05:00

Pvt first mistake was going outside your unit for advice. 2nd mistake is cursing the very nco youre trying to get help from. 3rd, even you have a profile you shaved anyway. Now, you have a reason for that profile. We white nco's are uneducated when it comes to your problem. I had a soldier explain it to me where i could understand the situation.
Do you know your chain of command?? If not,learn it and exercise it.
Always carry a copy of your profile in your pocket. No words necessary, just whip it out. Just dont argue with the nco's or curse them because that'll get you in deep trouble...

Response by SFC Stephen Everett made Feb 10 at 2021 12:01 PM

2021-02-10T12:01:09-05:00

I, myself had a shaving profile and I understand how you feel. It’s not easy, and more important you’re looking out for your well-being. When I started looking into shaving profile I wanted the doctor to educate me of my conditions and was clear that I want to meet the Army Regulations as well, the Army standard. The good part is it took 5-8 years of my initial career for my skin to clear up and by taking medication to clear the skin. As long you are making some type effort to better the issue. The more you will feel better for yourself. NOW, with the Squad Leader or whoever they are you need to annotate information and talk to your company EEO about the racial issue. That type gesture was uncalled for. FYI, the colors of the Army is “Green”, and I still see it that way. “Rock on Infantry soldier”.

Response by 1SG Rick Seekman made Feb 10 at 2021 7:26 PM

2021-02-10T19:26:19-05:00

That so called squad leader needs his forward assist tapped!

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Feb 10 at 2021 8:47 PM

2021-02-10T20:47:20-05:00

This is a issue that has gotten way out of hand. Your first reply was a good one, and should have settled the issue with that particular NCO. When he approached you the second time you should not have cursed him, but you should have directed him do your platoon SNCO or OIC for further clarification on this subject. Since he interject the racial comment, I would have stepped up to him and informed him that. My shaving issue has already been addressed by upper channels so if you can drop the issue I will drop the issue of your racist comment and we can both go our separate ways. If he’s smart he will go clean his rifle that he was failing to give attention to because he was so busy worrying about why you haven’t shaved.

Response by PO1 William Wright made Feb 10 at 2021 10:48 PM

2021-02-10T22:48:34-05:00

You never heard of Magic Shave? No razor needed and Black Soliders and Saliors have been using it for decades. It is in the PX and every drugstore. I had to teach many of many recruits about it.

Response by SMSgt Sheila Berg made Feb 11 at 2021 8:07 AM

2021-02-11T08:07:06-05:00

Not if you have a legitimate profile. Now beards are permitted for religious reasons. Should keep the profile paperwork with you.

Response by MSgt Gilbert Jones made Feb 12 at 2021 2:30 PM

2021-02-12T14:30:44-05:00

PV2 Jones, you did the right thing in not argue with the NCO, but either bring it up to your unit commander or go back to the hospital and inform them of the problem - you must protect yourself. As a First Sergeant, I had several individuals in my unit at any given time that had the same problem. As long as you have a medical excuse for not shaving you are covered. Just don't argue with those that face off on you - that is what some of them want you to do so they can bring you up on charges. I would suggest that whenever your face is clear you try to shave, just don't shave to close. At least that would show you are trying to adhere to regulation. Good luck!

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Feb 22 at 2021 1:04 AM

2021-02-22T01:04:25-05:00

People with shaving profiles are generally Latino or African American. The painful bums they have on their face is caused by the use of a double edge or electric razor. This problem didn't exist when men were using single edge safety razors. Try and switch to the older single edge blade, but be warned. You may cut the hell out of yourself, so go slow when shaving.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Feb 22 at 2021 10:39 AM

2021-02-22T10:39:30-05:00

First, if you have a profile to not shave, that trumps a Squad Leader's wishes.
Second, his comment about, "like every other black person," while dead wrong for both fact and EEO issues, has SOME truth. When I was in Nam, the black guys used to joke about not having to shave, and SOME were known to take advantage. Still, if they had a profile, that was the end of it - and that was in the Marine Corps. NCO's didn't like it, but they weren't stupid about it.
I don't know if I would make an EEO complaint; at least not without asking him to speak privately. Give it one more shot to convince him that you have a LEGITIMATE reason for the profile. You can also tell him that his previous comment about "like" others was wrong. If he's smart, and if he's a decent NCO, he SHOULD not only agree with your profile, but apologize for his remark.
Your in a unique position. You can help educate the guy, or you can probably burn the guy. If I were him, I'd certainly appreciate a second chance.
It does NOT sound to me like you "cursed him." You literally used an adjective and did not directed it AT him (as a verb). Profanity is not illegal - unprofessional PERHAPS. I'm actually more disappointed in what your Platoon Sergeant said. Usually, it's good when someone sticks up for his Squad Leader, but YOU HAVE A MEDICAL PROFILE. As I said, that trumps everything else. Hopefully, you'll have the opportunity to demonstrate that you are otherwise a top-notch soldier.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Feb 22 at 2021 2:31 PM

2021-02-22T14:31:21-05:00

If you have a valid profile and you are within standards no one can make you shave. Having said that, don’t get caught out of tolerance. If you NCO’s persist ask to see the 1SG on his open door. Making you shave could cause infection or worse.

Response by SFC Terry Stinnett made Mar 1 at 2021 12:57 PM

2021-03-01T12:57:30-05:00

A little late to "the party" but a link to an interesting piece I read today, from Dec 2020. I do think (as a retired female NCO) the services can and should accommodate medically driven profiles for those with the skin condition. Leaders of all ranks need to remove their heads from their nether regions, and respect those boundaries.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/air-force-shaving-profile-bad-for-career/

A shaving profile might be bad for your Air Force career

Airmen with shaving profiles said that the profiles had disqualified them from prestigious positions, leadership opportunities, or awards.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 1 at 2021 5:08 PM

2021-03-01T17:08:25-05:00

Start reading some of the previous posts on this one. It comes up, seems once a month now. If you have a profile, it states what it can be. If you exceed that, your NCO would be wrong for not pointing it out.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Mar 2 at 2021 10:29 AM

2021-03-02T10:29:55-05:00

As long as you follow you profile, these things should not happen. i would guess your profile was signed off by an O-6, which carries alot of weight. If some fool E-5 waants to argue with that, well then , go through your chain of command about it.

On a different tack, I suggest trying a Braun beard trimmer to shave with, they cut very close . I have the same promblem with any type of "rotary electric razor" , my face will bump up and I am white LOL. Also I always had problems with just normal shaving before I joined and for my first few months in ., until a comrade in my first unit suggested "sensitive skin" shaving cream. You might want to try that , if you have not. Avoid razors with any kind of "glue strip" as well, they irritate skin. Plain double or single edge razors seem to work best, . The triple/quads are just a waste of money and they go dull super fast , even faster than single/double edge ones. always use a sharp razor , even if you just use it once. (I use shick slim twins or Bic single edge) if I want something closer than just using the Braun beard trimmer as a razor.

Now as far as any racial issues, and also losing your cool as well. Avoid that stuff, and fuggettaboutit. On the medical issue of having a profile is the key thing of import. People have all kinds of biases and sometimes they don't like people for a variety of reasons. I've seen officers look down on enlisted just because they make less pay. I have seen several "ethnics" look down on anyone else. This is just not a white-black issue. I saw whites look down on blacks , blacks look down on whites . and the same stuff with Hispanics , Jews , Masons, against other "clicks", you name it, Fuck it, do your job and follow the regs . Assholes will hang themselves. Keep your own cool , things will work out of their own accord.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2021 7:39 PM

2021-03-06T19:39:51-05:00

My opinion: First off, even if you are a PV2, you need to speak to another soldier like you are a soldier. If I had a soldier who said "It hurts me to shave", instead of giving a copy of their profile (which you should have been carrying at all times anyway), I would have probably had something to say as well, being that I expect a soldier to be a soldier and not a baby. There may be times when you will get a REAL hurt, like a bullet wound, and you will understand the difference between that and shaving bumps. Secondly, you do not tell a ranking soldier that you're not fucking doing anything. That was disrespectful; once again, you should have had your profile ready to whip out. Stop with the cryinging about what the NCO said about Black people and shaving; a lot of men do fall back on the shaving profile. So, watch your mouth and carry your profile. Stop being a baby.

Response by COL Victor Hagan made Mar 7 at 2021 10:59 AM

2021-03-07T10:59:22-05:00

I would recommend that you request to speak with your company commander through your platoon leader on his open door policy immediately. Depending on how the conversation goes with your company commander, I would report the matter through EO channels. This is to ensure that if anything else happens with this same NCO the chain of command has a full picture of the situation.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2021 8:35 PM

2021-03-07T20:35:30-05:00

You should file an EO complaint. That's a racist and disrespectful thing to say.

Response by CPL Joseph Bennett made Mar 9 at 2021 9:25 PM

2021-03-09T21:25:18-05:00

Whats worse disobeying noncoms or disobey the officer that wrote that profile???

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2021 6:27 AM

2021-03-10T06:27:26-05:00

The only way anyone can order you to shave is the commander and it has to be for a real world NBC threat. The squad leader and PSG were out of line and need to be educated on the regulation.

Response by SPC Jared Robbins made Mar 10 at 2021 12:20 PM

2021-03-10T12:20:45-05:00

Your squad leader committed an EO violation with his remark about “every black person in the Army”. That’s a serious offense on his part if he wants to make the Army a career.
You did the right thing by getting the profile AND BEING RESPECTFUL.
Stay respectful. Never disrespect an NCO even when they’re in the wrong.
You were wrong to curse at him, but at the most that’s a counseling statement. Not an Article 15.
Your PLT SGT is wrong to not stomp on your team leader’s ass for what he’s doing. Go up one more, even to your 1SG or Commander if necessary.
A correct profile should be signed by your Commander, so make sure that your Commander has signed it. Stand up for yourself, but be respectful.

Response by MAJ Mark Steskal made Mar 11 at 2021 11:27 AM

2021-03-11T11:27:24-05:00

1. A little understanding would go a long way in enhancing your grooming standards and quality of life as a junior enlisted man. I grew a deployment mustache I only shaved it twice, once when a General was coming and the LTC asked me to and once for R&R (my wife is not a fan either).
2. It is a stretch, but I am guessing that you come from an African or Middle Eastern or Mediteranean descent. The hair is different (more curly) than caucasians, and tends to get caught in the follicle before getting out of the skin after shaving to the surface; causing what is known as "Pseudofolliculitis." or pimples. I had a black friend in college who used Nair depillatory as shaving cream and a kitchen spatula to shave. The below website has other suggestions for how to keep within regs while avoiding pizza face.
https://www.uspharmacist.com/article/pseudofolliculitis-barbae-prevention-and-treatment

Pseudofolliculitis Barbae: Prevention and Treatment

Nathaniel E. Eraikhuemen, PharmDAssociate Professor of Pharmacy PracticeCollege of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical SciencesFlorida A&M University–Davie Instructional SiteDavie, Florida

Response by MSG Kristin Wahl made Mar 11 at 2021 10:43 PM

2021-03-11T22:43:10-05:00

The squad leader obviously doesn't understand the curly hair is what causes the hair bumps. A permanent profile is just that permanent. He shouldn't have used physical and as punishment.

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Mar 12 at 2021 12:40 AM

2021-03-12T00:40:48-05:00

For one nobody can tell you to disregard a doctors orders. Only your doctor can release his/her orders if your situation has cleared up. However you must keep it groomed as close as possible to the flesh. There is creams, conditioners and razors that will help but not always. There is even trim clippers that can be used to make it like you shaved. But again not always. On thing, not all Black Men has this issue. I'm no doctor, but experienced it as a NCO why Black Males get bumps when shaving is because one is releasing hair follicles but instead of surfacing, the hair stays under the skin and grows in a Spiral configuration (ingrown hair) i.e. Afro. I hope this helped and best of luck brother.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2021 7:35 AM

2021-03-12T07:35:52-05:00

Sounds like a typical shitbag leader that uses his rank and authority because he hates his life!

Three things to remember,
1. Keep yourself in check at all times, use Chain of Command all the way up to the IG if you have to for legitimate complaints against this type of bullshit, write everything down, keep it organized and never tell anyone what you are writing down after the fact until it is time to use it, who witnessed anything, you know the 5 W's its all important when making a complaint even though sometimes it may not be a good idea at the time, but it can save your ass in the long run. One thing to keep in mind, the IG will always be for the Commander and not the Solider hence the reason I put number 3 down and you need to keep their information phone numbers address, etc. in your phone!
2. All Army Regulations pertaining to profiles, uniform and appearance, PT, Base Regulations as well, and everything else,
3. Your Congressman/woman and don't be afraid to use them because they have such great power Chain of Command will shit bricks when one comes down through Army channels but you better have everything documented as I mentioned in number 1!

Here is my little experience;

I have been in the Army for 31 years and in 2018 I had a stent put in due to bloackage and because I was on blood thinners for a year and couldn't shave without my face profusely slowly bleeding for hours all the time. I am a white guy so I caught a lot of flak even though the Army Medical Review gave me a permeant profile for shaving and even though I am not on blood thinners anymore. I pulled a year tour with ARNORTH in 2019-2020 and I had a shitbag SGM that stopped me in the courtyard on my first day there. I had a backpack over my shoulder, a briefcase in my left hand, (as I had to in-process), and a coffee mug in my right hand and he called me over to him and asked me who I was because he recognized the patch on my shoulder but not my face. I stopped and told him I was the new Security NCO and he said Okay glad to have you. Then I went about my business! He never questioned me about why I hadn't shaved, (it was well within regs) and almost a month later I get called up to my Chain of Command and get grilled by my supervisor and PLT SGT on how I disrespected shitbag SGM out in the courtyard outside of my office area but couldn't give me a date, time, or anything! The day in question I had been in my office with a civilian employee who works with me and pointed out to my supervisor and PLT SGT that there are cameras all over the facility inside, outside perimeter walls, parking lot, my office area, etc and no one has even came to my office the whole day. I told them all they would find from the time I ever started working there is see me drive in the parking lot, walk to the Quad, go to my office and not once will the cameras show anyone stopped me the whole time I have been on orders here, especially shitbag SGM that started making false claims!

Then weeks later shitbag SGM decided to call Yuma Arizona to verify if I went to military freefall school there and when they came back and said no record of me going to school there, shitbag SGM notified my Command that I needed to remove my freefall wings. My command went to the IG they all verified my record that I went to school, but I did it at Ft Bragg way back in the day! But shitbag SGM never came to me to ask me!

Long story short shitbag SGM kept up his BS trying to accuse me of other BS. My payback to him was finding security violations of his people bring cell phones into areas where classified information was being processed, (1st time violations myself and a civilian employee who worked with me caught 16 people with cell phones to include shitbag SGM on his personal cell phone talking, 8 open computers and unsecured CAC cards), (3 times after that kept finding more violations to include shitbag SGM not complying and I could and thought about removing his clearance for repeated violations).

So instead of just notifying the security channels of the violations and ARNORTH Command ignoring the issues, I also did a congressional on the whole matter and you should have seen the shit flying, not on my end, but its good to let the Congressman/woman, DoD and the Department of the Army to know about issues when you have legitimate issues against shitbag leaders when Chain of Command ignores it!

One thing you will learn in your career, Chain of Command usually protects their own and will and you are the lower ranking newbie and they will play it out that you are the shitbag soldier! That's why it is important to know the 3 things I mentioned above and not be afraid to use it!

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Mar 12 at 2021 4:04 PM

2021-03-12T16:04:56-05:00

One of the Sergeants First Class addressed this part already when you let your squad leader know that you have a shaving profile and they got real unprofessional under their breath (you know what I'm referring to). THAT PART is an EO complaint because that part is straight-up BS! When he apologized and told you that you still need to shave, simply reminding him of the shaving profile should have been just fine. Adding the 4-letter word with -ING on the end of it was a bad idea because you did in fact disrespect an NCO. From what I've seen, your platoon sergeant was in the wrong for saying what they said as well because the Army DOES NOT just hand out shaving profiles to anyone. I applaud you for utilizing your NCO support channel as well. Best of luck in your situation.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Mar 12 at 2021 7:16 PM

2021-03-12T19:16:50-05:00

I served in the 60's and I don't recall anything called a shaving profile. But I guess in todays friendlier PC military things are different.

Response by LTC Mo Vanderslice made Mar 12 at 2021 7:51 PM

2021-03-12T19:51:04-05:00

PVT Jones you are a soldier. Keep yourself and your uniform neat and clean. Wear pressed uniforms when possible. However, do not violate your profile (keep a copy of that document with you during duty hours should you ever need it - neatly folded and inside a zip-lock). Your chain of command should be looking out for your health. You can ask other black soldier of longer service who also have shaving profile about the solutions they’ve found to help you in the garrison environment. However, forget about attempting to shave in the field. The last thing you need is an infection. If your 1SG sees that your a hard charger who also makes every effort possible to look professional, he/she will lookout for you if they are worthy of the rank and position they hold; the same goes for your CSM - they’ve seen everything and can tell who is busting their butt and who is shamming. Trust your NCOs. Good luck trooper!

Response by SPC John Tacetta made Mar 13 at 2021 1:32 AM

2021-03-13T01:32:41-05:00

No. Your squad leader's a dick. It happens. This is a real problem (both your SSG and your condition), but too often NCOs think your getting over somehow. Just wave that profile in his face, smile and carry on. Go up the chain of command if you have to, but keep it professional. You probably won't make Sergeant Major of the Army (who's too say not), but you can certainly enjoy a career if that's what you're looking for.

Response by A1C Donald Hanes made Mar 13 at 2021 9:34 AM

2021-03-13T09:34:29-05:00

Stop complaining and looking for a way to bend or manipulate the system. Purchase an electric razor and get on with your tour of duty.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2021 7:40 PM

2021-03-13T19:40:57-05:00

Personally I hate shaving every dag-on day...but I have to do it...!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2021 9:16 PM

2021-03-14T21:16:37-04:00

I have seen people of different ethnicities have shaving profiles. As everyone has said that comment is a direct violation and it does validate a complaint. Who knows how many Soldiers he has caused to end their career because he was toxic. If you don't want to file an EO complaint then ask your PSG to address it. That comment does not need to go without being properly addressed. Give your command a chance to correct this NCO's mental thinking of shaving profiles. No excuse but the guy may just be jealous that he can not get a shaving profile or that he simply can't grow one.
The swearing at the NCO, you should show that you are a better Soldier by maintaining your composure. I know it is hard and frustrating but right now it's just the proper thing to do even when someone else loses their bearings. I am not trying to bash you for it as I have lost my cool on higher up's multiple times but you have to do it in a (common saying) tactical way.
The profile is something once you receive it you must abide by it unless it is something you can work your way off of it. There is no if's about it.

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made Mar 15 at 2021 1:11 AM

2021-03-15T01:11:11-04:00

No but they now have shaving creams that solve this problem. Get a second opinion about it and it is not just black people who have this. For awhile I had to make my own shaving cream to help. The kind that uses a brush and make sure your face is very wet. Dry skin can irritate the problem also.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2021 10:36 PM

2021-04-05T22:36:23-04:00

I'll just say....don't try to use your shaving profile as an excuse to look like Rick Ross. This is the Army but we are still a professional organization. Also, like everyone else has said....REPORT THE COMMENTS TO THE 1SG AND EO! (And yes I too have a permanent shaving profile, but I do shave at least twice per calendar week. Not only because I am a Sr. NCO; but because I don't like looking raggedy because of an unlined beard.)

Response by SFC Zohn Tennyson made Apr 6 at 2021 6:47 AM

2021-04-06T06:47:58-04:00

You’re a PV2 and you cursed at an NCO? A lack of respect combined with the shaving thing should have you out the door.

Response by SFC Craig Titzkowski made Apr 7 at 2021 12:03 AM

2021-04-07T00:03:16-04:00

I think most of this issue comes from the proception. That some people are trying to buck the system and the people that have this issue for real are paying the price. I have had many soldiers in my day have shaving profiles and it does set off alarms on some leaders do to their proception that most people are trying to get one over on the commands. Integrity is the key word everyone has integrity until you show me you don't at that point you are accountable for your issue that put your integrity in question or loose of trust. I think if everyone had more integrity and honesty along with accountability for ones actions there would be less questions about peoples personal issues and a little no shave chit or profile would be the least of anyone worries. On a personal note I can go a presentable beard if I wanted to I have summer beard disorder. some hair here some hair there but not much anywhere good luck and I wish everyone to follow the ten simple rule from the Bible.

Response by SPC Adrian LaPene made Apr 7 at 2021 10:57 AM

2021-04-07T10:57:33-04:00

I can’t help you with your chain of command but there are people that can. Now, here is a possibility that you may not be aware of as far as shaving and I hope it helps. If you are using a multi blade razor stop. That is the number one reason for razor bumps. You need a single blade razor, preferably what is known as a safety razor. You also need a shaving brush to apply shaving cream, it exfoliates the skin and helps to keep hair from curling in and becoming razor bumps. Razor bumps for the most part are hairs that catch on the skin as the hair grows causing the bumps. If there is one where you are stationed find yourself a store called The Art Of Shaving or a gentleman’s salon that can help/teach you. Unfortunately the army doesn’t have a shortage of assholes that instead of trying to help their soldiers don’t want to be bothered

Response by SP5 Roberta Sanchez made Apr 7 at 2021 11:37 AM

2021-04-07T11:37:18-04:00

No soldier needs to be bullied into something that is causing harm. Have you considered going to the IG or the Chaplin? It will not help you dealing with this NCO but maybe it will help you get away from him.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Apr 8 at 2021 9:29 AM

2021-04-08T09:29:08-04:00

Sure, to the limits of the profile. Profiles are not absolute; they’re still a standard you must meet. For example, in a shaving profile, you may allow to grow up to 1/8 in to prevent shaving bumps. You may be forced to shaved to 1/8 requirement.
Exceptions: in rare occasions, the military will grant religious waivers. In that case, you don’t have to shave at all.

Response by LCpl Andrew Montoya made Apr 8 at 2021 9:42 AM

2021-04-08T09:42:13-04:00

Here's a scenario. "You need to shave". "Roger that". Problem i have is the explanation. Just be quiet and shave to the best of your ability. Then if your squad leader says anything after you say " this is the best I can do, here is my shave chit". As far as the comment like every other in the army, instead of looking at him like its a racist comment, how about you understand the frustration because we all know damn well people that abuse the system. Was is unprofessional, sure but infantry unit it happens. Was it racist? Give me a break.

Response by SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret made Apr 8 at 2021 3:01 PM

2021-04-08T15:01:16-04:00

Go and get that stuff that you mix with water, put on your face and it removes hair. If that does not work then take a copy of your profile to the First SGT and then when you continue to get backlash, the Company Commander then when that dont work, the Inspector General.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2021 3:30 PM

2021-04-08T15:30:09-04:00

You should just go to selection so you don’t have to worry about it anymore!

Response by SFC Jason Manners made Apr 8 at 2021 3:55 PM

2021-04-08T15:55:05-04:00

If you are sure he said the comment about black people then that should be reported just like if someone said just like every other white person in the Army. A whole race or skin color shouldn't be referred to in any manner because each individual is different. He should also be encouraging you to follow your profile because you are required to. You can get in trouble for not following it.I always tried to take each Soldiers situation into consideration because they are all different but can still be part of the same team. If you can't shave then you can't shave. I am sure that it doesn't hinder your job performance. I would tell the DOC at your unit about what your squad leader said and he will contact your 1SG or Commander.

Response by LT Tom Grugle made Apr 8 at 2021 6:31 PM

2021-04-08T18:31:07-04:00

It's been a while since I was a Navy physician, but I had no authority to suspend regulations for anyone. That being said, no one ever countermanded my recommendations - and I gave out a lot of "no shave" chits. PSEUDOFOLLICULITIS BARBAE is a common medical condition among folks with curly facial hair and can be permanently disfiguring is left untreated. What I would have wanted you to do was come to sick call, tell me the issue, and then me and the hospital Admiral could have a talk with the NCO. Education is sometimes all that is required. That being said, PSEUDOFOLLICULITIS BARBAE is disqualifying for many MOS's of course (are they still called MOS's?)

Response by PO1 David M Burns made Apr 8 at 2021 9:21 PM

2021-04-08T21:21:18-04:00

The only thing right about it is "the army just gives shaving profiles to anyone!"

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2021 6:32 AM

2021-04-09T06:32:57-04:00

I also had a one of them, and I felt like a oddball so I started using clipper with guards and trimmers keep it well Groomed they won't bother u again. Well not as much.

Response by CH (1LT) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2021 8:49 AM

2021-04-09T08:49:32-04:00

I had a shaving profile while I was enlisted, getting bumps, etc if the shave was 'too close.' Anyway, my solution in the end was a razor shave once or twice a week and electric in between as needed. Especially after my profile ended, I kept the electric on me in uniform just in case I got called out.

Response by Maj Maria Avellaneda made Apr 9 at 2021 2:34 PM

2021-04-09T14:34:12-04:00

If you have a medical problem that prevents you from shaving your doctor can give you a waiver that can be permanently placed in you record! I will carry a copy of it for the i credulous!

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2021 5:12 PM

2021-04-09T17:12:22-04:00

Young Soldier, I have been in that very same predicament. I had a shaving profile for a very long time. The fact is your squad leader or platoon Sergeant don't know what uniformity or keeping simple order and discipline is. If they know they're simply unaware of your pain. Don't you abuse your shaving profile. Go a step up your chain and utilize the open door policy. You do not want to keep wearing a nasty face in uniform or worst yet get a Pseudofolliculitis barbae (PFB) on your face. JAG or the IG can put it in prospective better for you if they keep messing with you. But as I said don't abuse your shaving profile always keep a very low even trim (a T Edge Andis clipper will work). Do it the right way by educating your squad leader and PSG respectfully.

Response by Maj Maria Avellaneda made Apr 9 at 2021 5:17 PM

2021-04-09T17:17:55-04:00

If you have a medical condition that prevents you from shaving,, you need to pay a visit to your Doctor Who would make an assessment and it’s warranted he will provide you with a profile waiver that will become part of your permanent record. You ashould carry a copy of the authorization for the Incrediulous.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2021 8:13 AM

2021-04-15T08:13:19-04:00

Well, I'm not in the army however, this is an EO complaint top to bottom. Also, if you have a valid shaving waiver, he can't make you shave regardless of how red in the face he gets.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Apr 23 at 2021 9:27 AM

2021-04-23T09:27:50-04:00

1st of all, the EO violation by the Squad Leader must be addressed. Not only African-American soldiers suffer from shaving profiles, I had one because I contracted an allergy in the field and doctors recommended a shaving profile. My Commander reviewed my profile and signed my profile giving a copy to the 1SG. No one bothered me for three weeks and I maintained standards. My profile was reviewed after three weeks. This is common and the process is in place. There is no need to curse or demonize a race. The Squad Leader is out of line, but the soldier shouldn't have retaliated in a cursing contest with his leader. This was easily manageable at the PSG level. We don't beg for profiles, yet allergies find us and attack us, which is why doctors recommend profiles.

As Company XO, I am the 1SG fielded many complaints of unprofessional appearance. In each case, the doctor's recommendation weighed on our decisions because doctors are not into the business of dishing out profiles without good reason.

Best is to have your profile sanctioned by the Commander and provide copies to the 1SG and the PSG to avoid conflict in the ranks, AND refrain from revenge matches with seniors chosen to lead you.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2021 7:58 AM

2021-05-02T07:58:06-04:00

I have had a permanent profile, after a knee injury and surgery, for 8 years. The profile is guidance for your command team to take into consideration when in the performance of your duties and used to determine your deployable status, should you come up for a deployment. They are in no way authorized to force you to violate the guidance set forth in the profile. Them telling you to do so is way outside their left and right limits and could get them into some hot water. I had a SL try to force me to violate my profile by running the 2 mile just a couple weeks after the surgery, telling me he was ordering me to run. He tried to have UCMJ action taken against me for disobeying his order. He was removed from his leadership position for this, counseled thoroughly, and made to give an extensive PowerPoint presentation on what profiles are and how trying to force someone to violate them could be detrimental to their safety and readiness.

Response by SPC Henry Francis made May 2 at 2021 3:17 PM

2021-05-02T15:17:33-04:00

As far as the threatened article-15, it seems that this one would be the one to buck. Go for the court martial where the facts are presented at trial. I think they would not want the facts to be presented to a board of officers. F***ing as you used it is an adjective that has no connection to the NCO at all. It is directly connected to “forget it”. If the NCO EVER used the word that way in speaking to you he has no legs to stand on (and probably doesn’t even if he didn’t since it is so f****ing commonly used). I would check with JAG about it to be sure.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2021 3:57 PM

2021-05-02T15:57:42-04:00

You need to file an EEO complaint. That was terribly racist and not mention, completely unprofessional.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2021 11:35 PM

2021-05-02T23:35:44-04:00

You have to operate within the limits of your profile. If you shave and become NMC due to the resulting sickness, you possible face disciplinary action.... Possibly. As for your immediate COC, you need to escalate this issue with your PSG or higher. The Army is trying its best to get rid of Toxic leadership and toxic mentality, so it appears that your immediate COC require some remedial training in soldier care. Good luck.

Response by A1C Justin Turnbow made May 3 at 2021 9:50 PM

2021-05-03T21:50:48-04:00

Both of you were unprofessional at that point, as far as comments towards one another, and cursing at your leadership is something you're gonna have to stand tall and answer for. Your medical documentation is what covers your butt. If one link in your chain of command isnt functioning as they should, you take this issue to the next level, dont ever ever ever lose your professional demeanor. Not ever. And lastly I cant stress enough, using your chain of command, it's there for a reason. It allows those who get paid to make corrections do their jobs appropriately.

Response by SGM M.B. Pace made May 4 at 2021 7:34 AM

2021-05-04T07:34:07-04:00

Unfortunately I experienced the same harassment earlier in my military career couldn't grow facial hair until I was 20 years old but my face would bump up. I had shaving profiles and was harassed but just ignored them. If you are threatened with a Art 15, demand a court martial. Use your chain of command and if they fail you, you might want to reach out to the IG. I receive 10% disability for PFB ingrown shaving bumps I am retired military. Some people aren't educated enough to realize PFB is for real and think we purposely bump up our faces to wear a beard? Not true, course, coily hairs curly up into bumps. Let your dermatologist know about your situation and get advice or even JAG and get legal advice. I wouldn't walk around with my face rushed up because "They" have an issue with it, Good luck !

Response by PV2 Duane Schlender made May 4 at 2021 5:24 PM

2021-05-04T17:24:33-04:00

Response by PV2 Duane Schlender made May 4 at 2021 5:24 PM

2021-05-04T17:24:42-04:00

Having read your information, allow me to try and help.

The reason those of african decent get shaving bumps is because unlike (example given here) white people, african hair grows at an angle. I have known people with shaving bump issues, and they usually have to shave using nair or something of the sort. That is because it dissolves the hair. Try and electric razor, or the dissolving products, but work with the medics so that if you get a reaction they can fix it and also have your back medically.

Furthermore, you need to go to the medics and tell them what has happened with your command structure. They are blatantly breaking military regulations. Medics outrank EVERYONE in the interest of the soldier they are treating. PERIOD. Do not let it go, but don't curse anyone out or do anything against regulations yourself.

The main 2 reasons that your ranking superiors are making a big issue out of this, boils down to TWO things :
1) Military uniformity (I.E. : TEAMwork)
2) Beards do not allow a seal with gasmasks, and if you go into combat you will not have a proper gasmask seal and could be exposed to anything NBC related.

Response by SP5 Wilbert Jennings made May 4 at 2021 10:24 PM

2021-05-04T22:24:15-04:00

I went through the same thing while in Nam. While in a secure company , MACV Head Quarters I developed a really bad rash on my face and the hair was getting infected from shaving three times a day to look presentable. I ended up with a permanent shaving profile, just had to keep it trimmed not like a full beard. I have my beard today 51 years later. Go to the Dr. or medic and ask for a profile and carry it with you, buy the way most of the guys in Pakistan, Iraq and other countries wear a beard not to offend their customs????

Response by SFC David S made May 5 at 2021 1:59 PM

2021-05-05T13:59:58-04:00

I had a shaving profile and I kept it trimmed as best I could without bleeding from breaking the bumps. I am not a black man and this post sounds more like racist ranting and wanting validation from the people that don't know you. This post should never been publicized but handled at the company level. in my opinion you and your squad leader should be put out of the military, and banned for life from re-entering in any branch.

Response by 1SG Dave McWilliams made May 5 at 2021 4:07 PM

2021-05-05T16:07:49-04:00

I’m a retired light infantry 1SG and let’s start with the obvious .. I had a battle that when I first came in that had shaving profile that was shown and respected and everyone in his food chain new it . Your 1SG has an open door policy that you can request to see him directly. Be careful with doing that before also touching base with your PSG . Next you need to thicken up your skin when someone above you talks and maintain your baring . Part of being in is earning your place and taking the heat when it comes . Make sure you know the difference between someone attacking an issue and attacking you as a man . Their is a big difference. One thing in the army that comes free is an asschewing .

I think you SQD LDR is keen on someone fresh in cursing at him and I agree . If you keep your bearing and keep it tactful he can’t do anything about your words .

Saying the F word isn’t the right way to go .
Now let’s address the profile . Your within your right not to shave but bring up the food chain to keep it in tact by going to PSG and if that doesn’t work go to the 1SG through the open door policy .
Remember attack issues not people . Leave your personal opinion at the door . The military is a profession not a job and it a way of life . Drive on new blue cord brother and keep trying to do what’s right .

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2021 1:21 PM

2021-05-07T13:21:01-04:00

Absolutely not! You obtained a (needed) waiver for medical reasons, explained your reason for not shaving respectively and was still berated by your leadership for it. I would take it to your next highest level of enlisted leadership and explain the situation.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2021 10:18 AM

2021-05-08T10:18:38-04:00

Bottom Line, you need to report his initial comment. That is a blatant and racist comment and completely unnecessary. It sounds to me like you have. Been following you profile, like others have said in the comments, keep that profile on you at all times. If you feel comfortable enough to speak with your PSG or PL about the incident, then go do that, if they ignore it, use your COs open door policy. The EO violation is the one that concerns me the most, shaving profiles are not new or unique, so for your SL to feel so strongly about you shaving to say something like that is not okay and will bread that toxicity in the unit.

Response by Sgt Emmanuel Vargas made May 8 at 2021 3:18 PM

2021-05-08T15:18:02-04:00

Brother, do your 4 years and get out. You just found out the hard way that the military is racist and that no one gives an absolute fuck about you. It's all power trip.

Response by CMSgt Donald ONeill made May 8 at 2021 5:56 PM

2021-05-08T17:56:06-04:00

Do you have documentation that you have a shaving profile . If not deal with it .

Response by SP5 Gerbal Geek made May 9 at 2021 12:59 PM

2021-05-09T12:59:23-04:00

How about the shaving powders?

Response by SPC Jim Groce made May 9 at 2021 4:27 PM

2021-05-09T16:27:42-04:00

You needed a shaving profile, you had reasons for one. Your not slacking or trying to be difficult. The racist comment is more concerning and needs to be addressed at some point. As far as the profile goes, you plt sgt nor your squad leader are qualified to determine whether you need that profile or not. Use the profile, be respectful and if they push ask them to put it in writing. Seems as though there has been a mistaken idea of a power struggle that did not exist from your leadership.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2021 5:45 PM

2021-05-09T17:45:55-04:00

I also have a shaving profile and ive had it since i was a PFC. I've been through schools, selections, and promotion boards as a white guy with a beard. It hasnt hindered my career yet, and i dont think its going to. Maintain your beard within the limitations of your profile, and you will always be covered. Your commander is supposed to see all profiles to make determinations for unit readiness, mostly concerned with performance limiting profiles. Your profile should have given you a MRC code of 21111 which annotates non performance limiting, giving your commander no reason not to sign it. As far as the blatant unprofessionalism and disrespect towards you, i hope you went to EO with it, as like many have said we dont need NCO's with that mentality in the Army. Maintain your own professionalism when similar issues arise, and they likely will, and you wont be on the side getting punished. Read up on regulations and policies concerning profiles, and memorize what yours entails. A commander can rescind your profile if you move to a CBRN prevalant zone or for CBRN training, so be aware of that. Other than that, keep your beard up and bask in the envy of all the other soldiers not allowed to grow them.

Response by SFC Douglas Entwistle made May 9 at 2021 6:45 PM

2021-05-09T18:45:15-04:00

Your medical provider Trump's your leadership, to a point. A limiting profile is ultimately supported by your Commander. (It is almost ALWAYS enforced by the Commander. Very, very few Commanders will contravention profiles. It's a career risk. )

You MUST be in possession of your profile and be able to produce it. Also a copy must be with your training records (it goes there after your Commander has seen it) and in your medical records. As with everything, if it isn't on paper, it didn't happen. You must also strictly abide by the profile. If it says, for example, you must keep your beard at 1/8 inch, you must do so. Profile expire. Leadership is within their authority to order you to shave off your profile lapses.

Learn the regulations. Regulations are power.

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made May 10 at 2021 1:52 PM

2021-05-10T13:52:05-04:00

First, his comment (like every other black person in the army) was unprofessional. Second, technically you didn't curse him or curse at him. You swore, but still, NOT at him. Sorry this is months late (just appeared in my thread) but I would tell him you don't appreciate his racist remark nor being blackmailed (shave or receive a article for disrespecting a NCO). Take it from there.

Response by SGT Robert Farrell made May 10 at 2021 9:36 PM

2021-05-10T21:36:50-04:00

My first month in Nam I had a beard. A 2nd LT tried to jump in my S--T but i whipped out my profile and he just walked away

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2021 11:18 PM

2021-05-10T23:18:32-04:00

If you cannot resolve this within the company. Inform the provider that gave you the profile that your first line is making you violate the profile. Get your EO rep involve in the situation make them aware of what was said. Pseudofolliculitis barbae (razor bumps) is a common condition of the beard area occurring in up to 60% African American men and other people with curly hair. The problem results when highly curved hairs grow back into the skin causing inflammation and a foreign body reaction. Over time, this can cause keloidal scarring which looks like hard bumps of the beard area and neck. Shaving sharpens the ends of the hairs like a spear. The hairs then curve back into the skin causing pseudofolliculitis barbae.This can lead to Infections it is not to be taken lightly.

Response by SPC Keith Sloan made May 11 at 2021 4:20 AM

2021-05-11T04:20:25-04:00

Pv2 Jones, first thing's first. Educate yourself on AR 670-1 (if that is still the regulation for wear and appearance... ). Stay within the military regulations as much as possible with all things, actually. Knowing your shit is what will keep you out of trouble. Also, you disregarding your profile is up to you but highly
NOT recommended. Going tit for tat with your leadership is not what I'm saying. In fact that is what you should not do. But a shaving profile, as far as I recall, does not penalize or hold off a troop from awards or promotions. Solution for your painful Nestle crunch of a face and neck (I've been there too so no worries): Get rid of your cheap, nasty bacteria infested ass reusable razors and the shaving cream cuz its obviously not for your skin. Instead, use some hair clippers or hair liners. As for your bumps, unfortunately, you may have curled up hairs in there. Buy yourself some tweezers and remove those hairs that your nasty razor didn't catch. If it's that bad, it'll only get better for you. When you are in the field, use an electrical shaver. Find a black e6 or e7 who isn't bumpy. He can most likely steer you to the best one at the px, closest local Walmart or wherever. Welcome to adulthood, young soldier. This will forever be an issue if you continue using razors. I hope others here decided to mention the other underlining issues here. I just cared to offer a solution to your bumps.

Response by SGM Jeffrey Craig made May 11 at 2021 1:59 PM

2021-05-11T13:59:35-04:00

Have you tried Magic Shave?

Response by SGT Eli Peralta made May 11 at 2021 6:44 PM

2021-05-11T18:44:09-04:00

For everyone that does not know, a company commander must sign a waiver saying that they accept full responsibility in the condition that the service member under their command will not be following the profile and any further injury from not following this profile will basically be the full responsibility of the commander. The commander will then need to prove and justify the decision as to whether that decision was made in the best judgment to better the unit's mission capability or overall increase in the performance of the unit. This is very hard to prove which usually blowing up a small situation and most commanders are better off just taking the hit and having the soldier just follow the shaving profile. A shaving profile doesn't stop any work anyways so sometimes you get bad luck with personal ideals like previous commanders and NCOs in some of these other comments. Good luck hope you have a good career!

Response by Sgt Tee Organ made May 12 at 2021 11:40 AM

2021-05-12T11:40:55-04:00

No, go to medical and tell them you can't follow the rules of your profile because your squad leader is threatening to send you up for disobeying his order. Don't be afraid to mention his name either. You can still wear the gas mask under the profile rules and you can still perform your duties as a soldier. Man I WISH was I was in now just for that shit! I'd flat fuck somebody up for that BS! I'm sorry but I saw that shit in my time in and I didn't let that happen then either. If you're a straight bag of ass, then certainly but fi you follow the rules even if you are a general turd I took care of my folks.

Response by SGT Horacio DeSouza made May 12 at 2021 11:42 AM

2021-05-12T11:42:44-04:00

You need to take this high than him. You have profile and that you need to follow. Let the platoon Sargent know what's going on. If you violet your profile you can be punished. He may want for you to get off your profile but if you're that bad don't do it just to please him. Even if you have to got through your chain of command that is what you have to do. Even if you got to go to IG. He should not force you to break your profile. Also you should follow your profile to the T. Keep it to standard, so long you keep it within regulation He should not mess with you. you need read up on the regulation and keep it in your back pocket. Do not just go by what other soldiers say the rag say Know it .

Response by SGT Horacio DeSouza made May 12 at 2021 11:57 AM

2021-05-12T11:57:46-04:00

What is doing is also a EO complaint. He may not like the idea that you have that profile but you have a Doctor that gave you that profile. He's cannot override the Doctor order. He's not a Doctor. The black comment I'm not going to say much just EO

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2021 1:21 PM

2021-05-12T13:21:55-04:00

EO!!! You can't let stuff slide it's so much of this toxic stuff in the ranks and it's sad. "No one is more professional than I" you have to live by that as a NCO. Also get in the regs i know you're a young soldier but learn regulations and then nobody will be able to say anything as long as you're within regulation. I dealt with this for over 15 years but I've never had anyone openly put race in it. Go talk to your eo rep.

Response by Cpl Ross Curtis made May 13 at 2021 10:35 AM

2021-05-13T10:35:53-04:00

If you have a shaving profile, you CANNOT be forced to shave. It is against the UCMJ for ANYONE to force you to go against a medical order. You were wrong to curse at your NCO, but HE was wrong for his racial comment “Like every other black person in the army”. You could file charges against him for that you so chose, but you will be black balled for it. I STRONGLY suggest you leave the infantry if you have a shaving profile. A gas mask will NOT properly seal if you are not properly shaven. It is a matter of life and death. So you could either leave the infantry and not shave, or stay and not shave and be black balled and be guaranteed a death if the enemy uses gas. Your choice brother.

Response by SFC Charles Dennis made May 13 at 2021 12:03 PM

2021-05-13T12:03:20-04:00

You're profile was given to you and signed by an officer in the medical corps, therefore, if you violate your profile, you are disobeying a written order given by a commissioned officer.
I would let your Team Leader know you would like to have an appointment with your commander to discuss your shaving profile and to make a formal EO Complaint. If he ask what the complaint is about, let him know you will discuss it with the. commander.
After this, seek out your unit EOL and let him know.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2021 9:20 PM

2021-05-13T21:20:52-04:00

I know I'm way late to the party on this but here goes.

1. If what you said is accurate, he's a walking EO complaint waiting to happen.
2. An NCO can not countermand a medical profile.
3. An NCO can not give you an article 15 or chapter you out, that authority lies solely with the Commander and is processed by JAG.

You'll find that the Army does have NCO's that try to lie to you to get you to comply with their orders. Those NCO's are weak. I don't care what their MOS is, how much of a PT stud they are, if they have to lie to you to get you moving they're weak willed and weak minded.

Here's where you messed up, you cussed at your NCO. He's already in the wrong, and you damage your argument by being less professional. An NCO like that is going to have hurt feelings the instant you talk back, even after they just spent time cussing and chewing you out.

They'll probably counsel you and report your attitude, but on the up side that counseling will probably look like it was written by a 2nd grader. I joke but I have seen far too many incomprehensible 5W lacking counseling statements in my short time. A lot of those counseling statements get kicked back when they get sent to JAG as supporting documentation because of how poorly written they are.

So in short if everything is as you described, your NCO's are wrong. What can you do? Make sure you understand your profile and the regulation to the letter and that you follow it to the same. NCO's that are willing to lie, are also probably not up to date on what the reg actually says and will utilize NCO Chatter (the NCO version of PNN) rather than looking it up.

If this behavior continues by which I mean the EO, threats of UCMJ, and demanding that you violate a profile remember to document everything and then you take it to your 1SG since the PSG has already been involved. I fully expect your 1SG to be professional and handle things, keep in mind you also have your EO representative as an option if you want to make a complaint.

What can you learn from this? Someday you are going to be put in charge of your own troops. Be better than what you've experienced. Do not let what they did affect how you will lead.

Response by PO2 Gabriel Patterson made May 14 at 2021 8:11 PM

2021-05-14T20:11:34-04:00

It's not a legal order so no. It's very wrong.

Response by SPC C. Michael Morrison made May 17 at 2021 6:27 PM

2021-05-17T18:27:36-04:00

As a former Infantry Medic (11B/68W) I would first advise speaking to your Squad/Platoon Medic if you have one. During Desert Storm several Infantrymen had Shaving Profiles for one reason or another and most times a simple reminder from me to the NCO/Junior Officer giving the Shave Profile a hard time that the Doctor issuing the Profile was an Officer did the trick.

If you have a Squad/Platoon Medic, then s/he should be aware of your Shaving Profile. Also, it would be nothing for your Medic to verify the Shaving Profile with the Doctor who issued it. Having your Medic tell the NCO/Junior Officer that the Shaving Profile "is legit and there is nothing they can do about it" should end the matter. Carry on.

Response by CPT Jose A “Tony” Fernandez made May 21 at 2021 10:34 AM

2021-05-21T10:34:47-04:00

No! Absolutely false. Remember the phrase “watch your lane!” when going to the firing range? Your Sqd Ldr and Plt Sgt were out of their lane in saying to you what you claim they said. It is in the Dr’s lane to determine whether you need a profile or not.
Having said that, you need to watch your lane, when talking to others in general, but certainly watch your lane when talking to superiors, NCOs, and particularly, watch your lane when addressing your squad leader. Remain professional, maintain your military bearings, and deal with nagging details calmly and respectfully... of course, if you want to have success in the military profession. Good luck!

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made May 24 at 2021 2:53 AM

2021-05-24T02:53:33-04:00

Ok, I feel your pain. I’m a white guy that got a permanent shaving profile. Surprise!!! I got diagnosed with See a boric (sic) dermatitis. I was diagnosed when I was 24, in Germany. I’d be walking with a black soldier ( also on a shaving profile) and I would be stopped and questioned, not the black soldier. People couldn’t believe a white soldier could get a shaving profile. I had my Sargent Major damn near bite my head off for not shaving. I showed him my profile ( I had it laminated) and he shook his head and said the damn military has gone to hell in a hand basket. I still suffer this skin condition today and I’m 58. Imagine your skin burning and looking like you have a splotchy sun burn on your face after shaving. Every cream, even today is more of a hindrance than a help. I had to buy a beard trimmer to keep my beard down. My original platoon when I got the profile was supportive, cause in the words of my platoon Sargent, I was ugly, and shaving made me even uglier, and it was difficult for him to look at me unshaven, but not as difficult to look at me when I did shave. I took a lot of heat, kept my profile on me, kept the trimmer handy and Charlie Miked. Good Luck my follow soldier, I support you. A lot of people think we are Gold bricking, keep your professionalism at all times and soon, the people around you will realize you have a minor disability but your still a hard charger.

Response by CPL Charles Jackson made Jun 3 at 2021 12:51 PM

2021-06-03T12:51:55-04:00

Both were out of line and that the proper course of action would be to request to see the 1st Sgt. At which point you should request to see an EEOC officer to make a formal complaint. If you allow these NCO's to treat you in manor will only lead to to further problems. Further by disobeying the profile order given to you can be subject punitive action for not following the instructions given by medical personnel. NO NCO can order you to violate it.

Response by SFC Cynthia Eyer made Jun 5 at 2021 2:17 PM

2021-06-05T14:17:49-04:00

As an Senior NCOIC and an Acting Commander as an E-6, I fought for all Soldiers rights under the regulations, which are supported by the UCMJ, regardless of rank. I also took those aside and inquired from them the facts around being in violation of regulations that govern all Soldiers. If the violation was blatant, i.e. hair on the collar (even women), uniform not worn correctly, etc. then I informed them of the regulation they were not in compliance of and asked them to correct it within the next 5-30 minutes, taking in regard the circumstances and where we were located at the time. If you find someone that requires a reminder, ensure you are tight and without offense yourself. Then politely, and off to the side our of sound range of others, inquire and then correctly inform if needed. Don't assume someone is just wrong. They may not be aware of their appearance or unaware of the regulation specifics, as some regulations are vague. Regulations also have other regulations for specific situations that must be inclusive of the determination of violation. Ensure you do all of your research.
No, you cannot be made to shave if you have a profile as long as you stay within the regulation of the tight look of a beard. For them to act indignantly toward you is also punishable per regulations that govern EEOR. You have every right to speak to an EEOR Advisor and report the conduct toward you in violation of a medical profile by your Squad Leader and Platoon Sergeant. As for the screaming match and language, that's petty and shouldn't be responded to in like manner. Hold your integrity of what you feel, in your primal gut, what is respectful treatment of yourself and offer that to all in every experience. Hurt people hurt others and most hurt people disrespect others from a disrespectful "place" of perception of their life based from a fearful place of low self-esteem and lack of validation under conditional requirements. Keep calm, say what is needed with respect, and then act per your rights under the regulations and UCMJ. If you don't know the regulations, then I highly suggest you make yourself aware of them, especially those which are applicable to your situations in the Army. Ignorance of them is not a defense, nor is it another's requirement to tell you what the regulations governing your situation are. That is your responsibility to be accountable for your own life and understand and admit to your part in participating in all your experiences. Your Sergeants were wrong. That doesn't mean you need to be in reaction. Learn to respond from an informed position, not react. When you learn the regulations and then quote them with the regulation, chapter, page, and paragraph, then there isn't anything anyone can say or do against them. If you wish to be a Sergeant one day, then begin acting like a respectable, well informed, mindful Sergeant now.
I wish you the best and hope that the time I took to offer guidance is heeded for your greater good and the greater good you have the opportunity to be as a representative for other Soldiers.

Response by MAJ L Perugini made Jun 6 at 2021 5:54 PM

2021-06-06T17:54:38-04:00

You’re protected per AR 670-1 1-8 2(c). I work in dermatology now as a civilian after what I learned in the Army and I’ve written many of these profiles because we don’t you to have an infection or scarring. It doesn’t inhibit you from performing your duties per AR 40-501. It’s not your fault, don’t settle for that abuse, go over his head respectfully. You can also ask for help from the Doc who wrote that profile for you. Only your commander can over-ride a medical recommendation or disqualification. He’s lucky I’m not there, that shit wouldn’t fly for a second.

Response by MAJ L Perugini made Jun 6 at 2021 6:06 PM

2021-06-06T18:06:11-04:00

You are protected per 670-1 1-8 2(c). Go over his head respectfully. I’ve written so many of those profiles and it’s necessary to prevent cellulitis, infections and scarring. Only your commander can override a medical profile and they typically won’t without talking to the doc who wrote it. I now work in dermatology as a civilian because of what I learned in the Army and I know how important those profiles are. It won’t make you non deployable per AR 40-501 so don’t stress it. He’s lucky I’m not there to interact with his racist ass. I would love a confrontation with him because I’d tell him to eat a bag.

Lu

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2021 12:36 PM

2021-06-07T12:36:45-04:00

I remember I tried getting a shaving profile a few years ago. The PA was a 1LT and told me “I don’t know why you people think you can just come and get shaving profiles like nothing.” And then quickly followed up with you e-5s just don’t want to shave. I just walked away smh Go see your EOLC. Some of us have course hair and shaving destroys our face regardless of whatever technique you use. The fact that this stigma is attached to people who get shaving profiles is a damn shame.

Response by SGT Malcolm Kitchen made Jun 8 at 2021 1:02 PM

2021-06-08T13:02:58-04:00

So let me understand this correctly, to be clear this happened in 2021 on an Active Duty Army Base? I ask because of the comment that your NCO allegedly mumbled under his breath. Now I wasn't there, I retired many moons ago but I have to get this out in the open with everyone slinging the EO complaint and that's racist comments. Number one, there is absolutely no place in the military for that type of behavior, that's pretty much a guaranteed permanent one way ticket home, it was that way when I enlisted back in 2000, so you see the huge date gap we are talking about here; don't you? As an NCO he knows by heart what that behavior does to any career joe, not to mention you train on it a few times a year, death by power point. On the flip side you must know what those allegations do to a career Joe, it stops it dead in the tracks, and one doesn't even have to prove it, just say it happened, that's all she wrote. With that said, you are literally telling everyone one reading this that a career NCO mumbled that comment after getting on to you for not shaving? In the Active Army in June of 2021? PVT, based off everything else you said, the way you explain this and a few key words you managed to use, I have to tell you, something smells funny, it's a few somethings in your post from start to finish that tells me you are not being 100 percent truthful, any Army Behavioral Specialist that reads this will all say what I'm saying, if that's the case you need to fix yourself and double time doing it. If by chance this is the truth, all of it, than you also need to fix it, either by chatting with that NCO by way of PLT SGT or take and file an EO complaint. The Military has no room for it, never has, but the same is true on the flip side. However just to be clear, an NCO in 2021 mumbled a racist comment under his breath? And in that same breath told you to underscore a live profile and do what he says regardless and no matter what? And none of your other chain of command is batting an eye at this? Something is amiss and not making any type of military sense.

Response by SPC Collyn Lorimer made Jun 11 at 2021 8:44 PM

2021-06-11T20:44:01-04:00

Pv2 Jones I'm going to tell you that when I was in there were a lot of black guys in my unit that had shaving profiles. If you have a permanent shaving profile from a doctor they cannot make you shave with a razor. Yes you are going to catch some harassment but as long as you keep it within the regulations there's nothing that you're squad leader or platoon Sergeant can do about it. I know this because I was put on permanent profile for having two fractured tibias. I caught a lot of s*** from the guys in my unit but that's just something that you have to deal with is the harassment. If your squad leader is threatening you with an article 15 and your platoon starting said to do as your squad leader says then apparently the two of them are in cahoots and you need to take it up to the next level in your chain of command. I had a first line supervisor that used to threaten me with article 15s all the time also. I ended up having to be put in another company because we ended up coming to blows over his constantly harassing me for no reason. I'm pretty sure your company commander and your first sergeant have an open door policy. It sounds to me like your squad leader is a racist. You don't have to take that just because you are a lower rank. Hang in there soldier and as long as you are doing your job and doing what you're told to do then they have nothing to say. Maybe you could try using a 16th inch guard on your clippers to keep it even shorter. Then it would just look like a 5:00 shadow instead of a beard. Good luck to you soldier. I hope it all works out for the best.

Response by SGT Lenise Hamilton made Jun 11 at 2021 11:59 PM

2021-06-11T23:59:07-04:00

PVT Tyquavious,

The above information that you put out, whom-ever this Squad Leader is first of all is a total idiot and should be relieved of his peon position. Secondly, he's Racist, yes he's Racist! for him to come out of the side of his "ass" and confront you with that statement is totally over the top. Always remember, do not let anyone make you fell like a penny waiting for change. For they are no better than you are and your blood is the same color as there's.

Your a man just like that sour-puss is, however, the difference is your more professional and stronger than he is. In closing, if I were you I would report this incident to your Chain of Command along with the representative that handles "recist complaints".

if you have a profile, your covered! Do Not, I repeat Do Not violate your profile, nor, damage your integrity any longer. I don't know you personally, but I can say that you are a beautiful black man that should always walk with dignity. Always remember your worth! All the best to you.....

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2021 1:22 AM

2021-06-12T01:22:16-04:00

They are absolutely wrong, I received the same profile you have when I was in basic. I also had the same profile in AIT. As for his comment and trying to write you up, I'd report him for his racist comment. They were probably showing you how to shave with those cheap ass ravors, it's common knowledge that those are terrible for black men. They cause ingrown hairs which are very painful, I could barely even sleep my face and neck was so bad.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jun 12 at 2021 12:00 PM

2021-06-12T12:00:47-04:00

Forced? In my day that meant the platoon was punished until they made sure you shaved.

Response by PO2 Joseph Fast made Jun 12 at 2021 4:54 PM

2021-06-12T16:54:36-04:00

I'll give you a story I had. I was on an aircraft carrier and I got into my bunk. I slammed my head into some piping and hurt myself bad enough to make me fall and question whether I gave myself brain damage or not. This guy who outranks me and has never been friendly with me in even the slightest starts laughing and mocking me. I curse him out for a solid 30 seconds. Suddenly this guy has rank over me and we need to talk with respect unlike the second before when he was mocking me. Tried to use that crap about disrespecting higher ranked people and that I better apologize to him and make some serious corrections to my attitude. I told him to screw himself and that we will be talking in a bit.

I went straight to my LPO and explained what that douche bag did and within an hour the douche bag was looking for me to apologize for his conduct. Obviously the issue was dropped after that. He learned his lesson. The sad part of it is if he had even once talked to me like a human being rather than as scum who was beneath him (mind you I could have killed him if I wanted to) I would have taken his laughing and mocking me without anger.

Don't EVER let some douche bag tell you they have power over you because you disrespected them and they are a higher rank. They want respect then they can effing earn it. You gave him his due respect for his rank when you explained the situation. He lost that respect with his conduct. Next time call them out on their bluff. Take it up the chain of command. As long as your leadership doesn't fail you (it does happen, but it's rare), they will stop abusive behavior like that.

Response by SPC Brian Mason made Jun 12 at 2021 8:24 PM

2021-06-12T20:24:09-04:00

I don't know the policy but as a Medic, a skin irritation get get severe enough to scar and cause infections.
There's always a solution for almost any problem. LIkely, your facial hair doesn't all grow in the same way. You'll have to 'feel' for where it does and where it changes. Shave appropriately. Don't force a blade against your skin. It's sad they are costly but dull blades will make it worse.
There are gels that you can use instead of cream that help the blade cut easier and reduce friction against the skin. I'd advise you to seek the Medics about something better. It can take a long time to heal from it.
https://www.healthline.com/health/razor-bumps#home-remedies

Pseudofolliculitis Barbae: Treatment, Causes, Prevention, and More

Pseudofolliculitis barbae, or razor bumps, can be irritating and may lead to complications if not treated. Here's what you can do.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2021 11:25 AM

2021-06-13T11:25:48-04:00

The regs & your doctor who gave you the profile should have told you what is required & allowed.

Response by LCpl William Swink made Jun 14 at 2021 12:49 AM

2021-06-14T00:49:25-04:00

As a former Marine and current barber, I will tell you: No! A shaving chit/profile is a MEDICAL document and you can not be made to shave… BUT, if you’re not shaving because you don’t know how, you need to learn. If you’re not shaving because you have pseudofoliculitis barbae (nasty, painful ingrown hairs) then I would suggest trying a foil shaver like the Wahl Finale. If foil shavers still bump you up, then a good barber quality trimmer is the move! I would suggest a Babyliss GoldFX or a Wahl Detailer. They both cut super close (shape up/line up trimmers) and are cordless. You may have to run it over your face maybe twice a day, but it will make your face AND command relations smoother! Good luck

Response by SP6 Maria Garza made Jun 14 at 2021 1:05 AM

2021-06-14T01:05:31-04:00

Everyone has rights, when you are counseled you wright “I do not concur” then you explain why. Like the fact that you have a skin condition and were given a no shaving profile by your doctor. Give the doctors name that signed your profile. You can also write the racial comment that was made and that you plan to talk to the EO to make a complaint. Then you inform him that your taking it up the chain of command to get the situation resolved. Never sign a counseling statement with out putting your rebuttal and make sure you write “I do not concur”

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Jun 14 at 2021 1:54 AM

2021-06-14T01:54:59-04:00

First - if you look at my picture you can see I am WHITE! I have been able to shave without a problem most of my life and that is fine for ME, but it has nothing to do with your skin condition and neither does your RACE. My Nephew is whiter than I am, if he goes into the sun he BURNS just like his dad did. My Greek heritage allows me to TAN, not burn. Genetics often determines what we can and cannot do, unfortunately, your NCO and his racism have nothing to do with genetics he was raised to hate people different than him.

My Nephew CANNOT SHAVE close. If he does he looks like what you describe so he has a short beard and wishes he could be clean-shaven. As I said, he is white so that skin condition has nothing to do with race!

Shaving, as I said has nothing to do with race and your NCO is a racist! If he had said you and every other lazy SOB, he would have been safe, but he is a RACIST! and there is no doubt in my mind. If you did not report him he will ride you out of the Army, not just your squad.

Take this up your chain of command.

Response by SSG John Justin made Jun 14 at 2021 8:56 AM

2021-06-14T08:56:26-04:00

While it is understandable, cursing and loosing your temper never helps. The Squad leader was wrong and when I was the medical platoon Sgt in the guards, if I'd run into this situation, I would have over ruled the Squad leader and spoke privately with him. If I could verify the under the breath comment I'd reflect it on the Squad leaders evaluation and take sterner action. Hopefully both individuals would learn from the experience and become better soldiers. I was a Hospital corpsman with the Marines and we gave shaving profiles and they were necessary, Most of the Marines were able to use techniques which allowed them to shave, however it is time consuming and not an easy task. Another suggestion is for the PV2 to learn from this and as he raises in the ranks be sure he never makes the same mistake this Squad leader made. You can learn from the Good leaders as well as from the Bad.

Response by SFC Michael Krogmann made Jun 14 at 2021 10:00 AM

2021-06-14T10:00:00-04:00

First of all, you showed excellent restraint when he made the racist comments! Your profile overrides what your squad leader says and he should know that. Take it up to your platoon sergeant and as others have said, make sure your CO signs the profile.

Response by Sgt William Fulbright made Jun 14 at 2021 2:13 PM

2021-06-14T14:13:27-04:00

Short answer is yes. In my experience people with a “shave profile” or a “no shave chit” can still be forced to shave the areas that aren’t infected or inflamed.

Response by PO2 Michael Henry made Jun 15 at 2021 10:28 AM

2021-06-15T10:28:31-04:00

No it's not. If you have a written medical diagnosis from a licensed doctor and it's in your medical file, they can't do or say anything about it. Stuff like that isn't given out to everyone, there is a reason why. For the cursing, the most that can be done is a counseling chit, no more unless it got physical.

Response by PO1 Darren Martin made Jun 17 at 2021 4:06 PM

2021-06-17T16:06:21-04:00

Dude you have razor bumps don’t shave. I was a fmf corpsman and I had a shave profile. I always carried it with me and if they violate it go to your platoon leader which is violating an order. FYI your skin can get infected if you shave with razor bumps. If I was there I would have said something to your squad leader for his stupid remark.

Utilize the chain of command and always be respectful it sucks being at the bottom of the chain but it doesn’t last long. I had an issue with a corporal at my first command who was highly disrespectful to me all the time. I picked up HM3 at Viper right before the deployment and the guy actually avoided me. I picked up 2nd class a year later and the guy really avoided me after. He also got busted back down to lance criminal in that time.

Response by CAPT Edward Schmitt made Jun 27 at 2021 5:56 PM

2021-06-27T17:56:54-04:00

Unfortunately your NCOs were wrong and I consider their statements harassment; senior leadership should be informed. Only real physical problem I know of with not being able to shave is failure to get a good seal with gas mask and increased possibility of burn from flash fire.

Response by SFC Ritchie Inns made Jul 13 at 2021 6:28 PM

2021-07-13T18:28:26-04:00

That’s EO! And not only your squad leader but your platoon SGT are friggin idiots who need to be relieved…after they are charged with an EO complaint! And btw, I’m retired infantry. See your company commander, and read up on Mepcom 40-501. Know your rights when you have a profile. They need to stop taking testosterone shots.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2021 2:24 PM

2021-07-30T14:24:11-04:00

As a medic in the infantry who has dealt with this exact problem with many fellow soldiers: I highly suggest you get one of those battery powered pocket shavers...find one that works well for you and always have it on you with your profile. When you are asked to shave, you can simply say "yes, sergeant" and whip it out right there on the spot. If they have an issue, then you show the profile. This way you are still showing them the respect they want while maintaining your health. This will help your leaders to understand one of the most hated profiles in the military.

Response by SSgt Jeanne Wallace made Aug 5 at 2021 4:46 PM

2021-08-05T16:46:37-04:00

no its not right...tell the medical people what happened..their perscription was not being followed because it offend some jerks sence of how a soldier should look...I once had a friend who needed such a waver bedly ( his face looked like ground beef after he shaved and then like a pimple party for weeks after) he could never get one..because he was caucasian....so sad..hope you are doing better

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2021 1:07 PM

2021-08-21T13:07:32-04:00

No this is not what right looks like

Response by SPC Robin Price-Dirks made Aug 23 at 2021 1:56 PM

2021-08-23T13:56:30-04:00

No they cannot!!! To do so they are saying that whatever officer you saw was not correct. That's like telling a guy with a broken leg he has to do a 2 mile run, or a pregnant woman she has to do sit ups. I would report the EO problem right away. I would also go back to the dermatologist and tell them you were ordered to shave at this time, by this person, on that day, and tell them he threatened you with disciplinary action if you did not do so. I would also let my CO know the same thing before I went back to the dermatologist. I am a licensed barber and I know the pain and damage that can be done if you do shave. Good Luck!!

Response by SSG George Duncan made Aug 28 at 2021 6:44 PM

2021-08-28T18:44:49-04:00

no but can send you home

Response by CW3 Steven Bailey made Sep 3 at 2021 11:45 PM

2021-09-03T23:45:00-04:00

Well even when I was in and I retired in 1998 I had the soldiers with a shaving profile to go to the local PX and they sold a powder that mixed with water to make a paste which could be used that took the hair off and all was satisfied with it. Didn’t break the profile and worked quite well. The soldiers didn’t mind using it and it stopped the hair from growing back into ones face and making bumps on ones face which I would think would have hurt quite badly. Our Doctors started prescribing the paste before handing out profiles left and right. I’m most sure today’s Army has something similar you could suggest before all parties are getting all upset.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2021 10:06 PM

2021-09-13T22:06:03-04:00

This is a NCO Who is basing this on race not the Medical AR on the shaving chit second the medical department should be sending you to a dermatologist the medication you apply will stop the bump after shaving next please contact your black CSgtMajor thru your chain of command. But first get medical help if they refuse submit a person action request thru the chain of command then see if their is a black 1st Sgt who can talk to you off line. The NCO should know this is a medical issue not a personal issue also if you pay for tricare go to a outside dermatologist.or the va hospital keep all medical records this is a service connection issue under scars on the face.my email is [login to see]

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2021 10:27 PM

2021-09-13T22:27:35-04:00

The dermatologist should be prescribing your a shaving liquid before shaving and a pill to kill the infection under the skin low the shavind is not get to the root of the problem.as you shave the chemical will start to toughen then skin were eventually all you will need is to apply the medication this will never no away be get better the you get the human body chemical change every 8 years my bumping did not stop until I turn 40 i. Served in the navy and then army and retired at age 56.i have been In your shoes and fondly got help by a great 1Sgt and great Major who followed the medical AR and the dress appearance AR under the code of conduct.

Response by SFC Linda Clipp made Sep 19 at 2021 7:25 PM

2021-09-19T19:25:32-04:00

Hi PVT Jones. Ever tried a depilation cream?

Response by SPC Robert Bobo made Sep 20 at 2021 9:50 AM

2021-09-20T09:50:01-04:00

It's not 1970 ,There's so many options these days for shaving I haven't used a razor in years and shave regularly, life is to short, pick your battles!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2022 5:55 AM

2022-02-06T05:55:53-05:00

I have several troops in my unit and have addressed this particular topic. I also brought the issue of some females violating AR 670-1 regulations and they were treated differently. You have a valid reason. The controversy here is that once a permanent profile is issue a soldier's responsibility is to carry a copy in a water proof small bag(Zip lock) to presented to the questionable Chain of Command and wherever place you go within our military spectrum. Good Luck troop, 11B .