Can I counsel a soldier for not showing up on Sunday for a TA 50 layout?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 03:25:09 -0500

Can I counsel a soldier for not showing up on sunday TA 50 layout? He said he wont do that unless he gets his time back on monday.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2019 3:36 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 03:36:40 -0500

Yes. Failure to follow orders. But why would ypu schedule a TA50 layout on a Sunday may I ask?

Response by SSG Howard Fair made Feb 10 at 2019 4:04 AM

SSG Howard Fair — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 04:04:35 -0500

Of course what's the army coming to?

Response by SSG Cory Bacon made Feb 10 at 2019 7:31 AM

SSG Cory Bacon — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 07:31:27 -0500

Generally speaking, this can fall under the "soldier 24/7" concept. If you're looking for a specific rule/regulation this falls under, it doesn't technically exist, as weekend hours are generally considered mission essential. Is there a particular mission upcoming that the layout needs to be completed for? If not, I'd check with your specific unit's SOP and/or the installation's SOP. 99% of CGs will authorize weekend hours to get the job completed, but if you're concerned, that's a good place to start. If you can't find anything in any of those that say you can't, then you're allowed to.

I'd just make sure there's no time during the week you could possibly fit it in. Unnecessary work on the weekends can kill morale, so I'd only do that if absolutely necessary. There's no specific rule governing against it, I'd just make sure the potential negative effect is worth accomplishing the task.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2019 8:57 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:57:27 -0500

Yes, failure to report. The unit should have better planning to avoid having to work on a sunday. But I have not come across a reg. that states you cant work on sundays without comp time.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Feb 10 at 2019 10:30 AM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 10:30:39 -0500

Of course! You're a soldier 24/7 and if he doesn't like it, well, he can choose to not reenlist. (Or go AWOL I suppose but that isn't the recommended course of action).

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 10 at 2019 1:18 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 13:18:36 -0500

Show me the regulation on compensatory time- if it's 24 hr duty then there is none. You can counsel, you can also UCMJ for Failure to appear, Missing formation, disregarding an order. Maybe the SM would like a field grade ART 15- there is enough charges you could bring to push it. By the way like the sniveling lil snowflake read this!~

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2019 2:33 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 14:33:54 -0500

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAH......I'm sorry. I had to laugh at that one. Counsel the Soldier that if they fail to report to TA-50 Layout per the directive of the 1SG, then no only will they not get that time back, but they will also not get the additional 14 days of time back from the Extra Duty they will be performing from that Article 15 for Failure to Report....

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2019 3:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 15:56:13 -0500

You can counsel someone for anything. It's just a written proof of a verbal statement.
I think a better choice may be to punish them for a failure to report, but I'm old school like that.
If the SM feels you owe them for a Sunday, I suggest volunteering them for EVERY SINGLE Saturday staff duty and staff CQ shift in your company or battalion, plus any after hours details your unit may need. When I was in 3ID we had to dig through dumpsters and separate recycling; that sounds like a great job at 1800 on a weekday.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 10 at 2019 4:52 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 16:52:23 -0500

Got to love Generation Z. I suggest making him come in a couple Sundays for a layout.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2019 8:30 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 20:30:46 -0500

I don't disagree that a Soldier is subject to duty 24/7/365, and admit that a Soldier having the audacity to demand comp time from me would have certainly been newly assigned to the unit, and it would have resulted in a significant emotional event, and any combination of counseling, correct training, and corrective training physical exercise.
That said, where does your COC and NCOSC stand on this issue?
Was it on the training schedule?
Do unit norms require approval of weekend duty to be approved, and/or it be placed on the training schedule?
Why wasn't the inspection scheduled during normal duty hours?
Who approved it, or directed it, and do unit norms authorize the person in that position to order it so?

I don't know of any reason, or regulation, that would prohibit conducting a TA-50 layout on Sat, Aun, or 2100 Hrs Friday evening.
(I am still trying to imagine a Soldier demanding comp time)
My purpose for asking these questions is simple: You need to know your authority.
The fact that you asked the question, suggests you aren't certain of your authority. Learn your authority, and the source of it.
Soldiers sense weakness. Doubt is weakness. (See UCMJ, AR 600-20, 4-6, 4-20, and FM 7-22 5-15 for guidance).
Don't take it personal either. The challenge is between the Soldier and the task or standard, not between you and the Soldier. It is your duty to train the standard, enforce the standard, and take corrective action when a Soldier fails to meet the standard.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2019 6:27 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 06:27:43 -0500

Yes

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2019 8:29 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 08:29:05 -0500

How dare you, Sergeant! Don't you realize he has video games that need to be played? There also better be ice cream and cookies waiting on Monday. I'm so offended that I'm going to contact IG on his behalf.

But seriously, this guy sounds like he's on a slippery slope to Shitbagville. Thinking as his peer (or thinking ahead as a future NCO) it sounds like something that could be fixed with a little free PT (counseling may or may not be effective depending on the soldier, everyone hates being forced to workout). If I saw my peer being smoked for this I would feel one or both of the following: I'd appreciate it because he decided to be a sleezball and I did what I was supposed to AND/OR I'd know not to play games with you and any thought of pulling the same stunt would disappear.

Hope my unsolicited opinion gives some millennial-soldier perspective

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Feb 11 at 2019 11:36 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 11:36:50 -0500

Yes, If the training event was on the training schedule or notice was given prior. Unless your command or post has a policy that limits or forbids weekend training events. I can think of several logical instances where it would make sense to do your layout on a Sunday.
Time back! what a concept, the troops on Army time 24/7. Since when do troops give SGTs ultimatums.

Response by SFC Jimmy Williams made Feb 11 at 2019 11:47 AM

SFC Jimmy Williams — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 11:47:25 -0500

There have always been Latrine Lawyers who say the leadership can't do this or that.
At my first unit post Vietnam we had a PLT with drug, discipline, etc troubles. We had the old WWII wooden barracks. 2 were renovated into 2 man rooms and given to our third plt. The new PSG wouldn't put up with their crap and moved the PLT out onto the lawn in pup tents for a month and gave the renovated BKS to another PLT. The crap house lawyers were working over time. But the PSG did his homework and they stayed in pup tents for a month and he dared them to not keep the BKS straight or get out of line again.
3rd became the best PLT in the company.

Response by Maj John Bell made Apr 3 at 2019 2:39 PM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 03 Apr 2019 14:39:08 -0400

If so far all he has done is threaten not to show up. I'd have him hand write then sign and date the entire text of articles 86 and 91 of the UCMJ. If your legal clerk is a notary or if you have a notary in the unit, I'd have his signature notarized. I'd have him lock his body, look him straight in the eyes and ask him if he understands the two articles he just copied. I would then explain that he just volunteered for every after hours and day off detail I can give him until one of the three conditions is met:
1) Somebody else pisses me off more than he just did.
2) One of the two of us PCS's or ETS's
3) He demonstrates over a period of several months that he has corrected his head space and timing error and offers a sincere apology.

If he actually failed to show up and his understanding of his place in the food chain is that far off, I'd charge him and at every step in the chain of command, at the appropriate time and place I'd make it clear that this turd needs to be flushed.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 3 at 2019 6:20 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 03 Apr 2019 18:20:27 -0400

Make him come in on the weekends in the morning and evenings to sign in with the CQ since he has trouble being showing up for a place of duty.