Can I receive a counseling statment with corrective action and an article 15 for the same mistake. Can this considered as a double jeopardy?

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 11:47:13 -0400

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2018 12:02 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 12:02:58 -0400

Stop get of the internet with your current legal issues and go see JAG TDS is a free use it.

Response by MSG David Johnson made Apr 24 at 2018 12:38 PM

MSG David Johnson — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 12:38:43 -0400

I highly recommend you take the course of action suggested to you. Nothing told to you on this forum is binding in any way, nor does it protect you.
But it could hurt you.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Apr 24 at 2018 12:59 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 12:59:16 -0400

A counseling is non punitive. Corrective action can be construed as punishment if administered inappropriately. Speak to JAG and thank you for your service.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Apr 24 at 2018 2:05 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 14:05:08 -0400

It is not double jeopardy. Corrective training/action is not punishment. If you are late to formation, your NCO can give you a counseling and have you show up early for a week in order to train you to show up on time and at the same time your PL can recommend that you receive a summarized art 15 because you make a habit of showing up late. Usually, or at least what I always did, was wait until I have three or so counselings that deal with negative actions in a certain time frame, usually 30-60 days, and if those happen then I would recommend an Art 15 on the grounds of pattern of misconduct and more than likely I'll get that through. Getting an Art. 15 for one offense, unless it is pretty damning, usually doesn't happen.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Apr 24 at 2018 2:53 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 14:53:06 -0400

If done correctly, no it is not. Example: Drunk on duty- Company Grade Article 15, 14 & 14. Counseling & corrective action- referred to ADAPCP. One is judgment and punishment for the crime, the second is to address the contributing factors. conditions, and behavior that resulted in the crime.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 24 at 2018 5:10 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 17:10:34 -0400

Way way too vague- A counseling statement with CORRECTIVE action, is not construed to be punishment but as CORRECTIVE Action. An Art15 is punishment after an investigation concludes you did violate UCMJ. Our talk is cheap, you have the right to see JAG at any time, and quite frankly- they are the only ones who can help you in legal matters. Get off your 4th POC and go see them, with your paperwork in hand.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2018 7:09 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 19:09:50 -0400

NJP = Non Judicial Punishment (emphasis on Non)

Response by SGT David T. made Apr 25 at 2018 12:32 PM

SGT David T. — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:32:58 -0400

Nope...totally double jeopardy....can't do it.....unconstitutional...you have rights....demand trial by court martial and you'll walk....

All of that advice was sarcasm and probably shouldn't be followed. You should go talk to JAG. They can advise you of what your best COA is. Or if you don't trust them, pay for a lawyer off post who specializes in military law.

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2018 12:39 PM

MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:39:44 -0400

Report to directly to JAG, don't pass go, and don't collect $200s. Oh,,, and most importantly Soldier...Stay out of trouble!!!

Response by PO2 Richard Blakey made Apr 25 at 2018 12:42 PM

PO2 Richard Blakey — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:42:11 -0400

no first cover your ass in us army 24/7

Response by SGT Patrick Danielson made Dec 22 at 2018 10:19 AM

SGT Patrick Danielson — Sat, 22 Dec 2018 10:19:39 -0500

It depends on if you have been given a council on the issue before and the severity of your action. A double jeopardy doesn't really exist as far as counseling statements go, as you can be counselled by different people for the same issue.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 6:04 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 18:04:50 -0500

Yes, you can receive both. Make the changes you need to make, so that will be your final Article 15 and negative counseling statement. Accept the consequences and figure out how you turn this around.

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Jan 14 at 2019 10:53 PM

MSgt Steve Sweeney — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 22:53:13 -0500

No, and you should go straight to your 1stSgt and tell him so. Be sure to tell him of the scrupulous legal counsel you received on the internet.... and make sure there is a video... You know, for evidentiary purposes.

Response by SFC Cynthia Eyer made Feb 19 at 2019 1:22 PM

SFC Cynthia Eyer — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 13:22:55 -0500

Yes. Absolutely you can. Two different actions. Counseling statements are a historical record of service while under a particular command.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2020 10:59 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 22:59:45 -0500

If I get an article 15 and then a Coinciding on top of that what happenes next

Response by SGT Larry Braswell made Mar 6 at 2020 9:46 AM

SGT Larry Braswell — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 09:46:03 -0500

Yes. Command may use the counselling statement as a basis for issuing further NJP. no. It isn't additional punishment, or punishment again, just further needed corrective action.

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Aug 31 at 2020 7:10 AM

SSG Paul Headlee — Mon, 31 Aug 2020 07:10:38 -0400

Its NJP. So yes. Figure out what is going wrong and engineer a work-around so you can put the situation behind you.

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made May 3 at 2021 11:32 AM

MSG Reid Zohfeld — Mon, 03 May 2021 11:32:18 -0400

Well if they started with a article 15 first and then a counseling is a little backwards but OH YES it can and should be done Counseling Article 15 then Counseling every day week or month
Young soldier You are not a civilian