Can I receive an Article 15 for apft failure?

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 15:47:20 -0400

Can I get an article 15 under article 92 (dereliction of duty) for failing apft and ruck marches multiple times. I have failed the mentioned events multiple times and my chain of command said they will give me an article 15 under dereliction of duty for failure to maintain fitness standards.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2020 3:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 15:48:34 -0400

It’s not unheard of, but it would be much easier to just chapter you out

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2020 3:50 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 15:50:09 -0400

You will be afforded an oportunity to go to Trial Defense Sevices (TDS) unless it is a summarized Art 15. Use that time to ask legal because they will give you way netter advice than anyrhing you will get off social media.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Aug 11 at 2020 5:04 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 17:04:50 -0400

PFC Private RallyPoint Member What other course of action would you suggest or expect your CoC to take or do?

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Aug 11 at 2020 5:33 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 17:33:45 -0400

As stated already seek actual JAG advice before you have to sign. If you have failed multiple times the commander will take recommendations from your chain of command, while chaptering is what normally happens, UCMJ action is faster and will supply more paperwork for the chapter. To be perfectly honest continual failure to meet the standards in my book is a quick trip to civilian life with the stigma of being tossed out to assist you in job searches. If you haven't been read yet I would move heaven an earth to make sure you correct your deficiencies and pass your APFT and make all your ruck marches, its kind of a no brainer that doing that is a standard for all Infantrymen.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Aug 11 at 2020 6:00 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 18:00:10 -0400

Just as you should never have to be told to get a haircut, you should never have to ask this question. Your command has given you every opportunity to remedy this deficiency and it appears you aren’t interested in improving yourself. Why did you join the military?

Response by SSG Brian G. made Aug 11 at 2020 6:22 PM

SSG Brian G. — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 18:22:20 -0400

Absolutely they can. It is the SM's (your) responsibility to maintain the stated and known minimum standards of fitness for duty in all areas of your job and that includes being physically fit to perform.

You say you have failed these events multiple times so obviously they are using this as a way to wake you up. Make you pay attention and step up to perform as a last ditch effort before they make that decision you are a shitbag and chapter you out.

Do you need someone to hold your hand and tell you that you need to get a haircut? Shine your boots? Wash and press your uniform? Clean your billets, make your bed, shower and shave? When you joined the Army you passed from being a child where your parents might otherwise do these things to being an adult expected to do these things on your own.

Comes down to personal pride. How hard is it to score 60% in each of the three events? You are a PFC which means that you are less than 2 years out of OSUT so you should not be failing as badly as you are.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 11 at 2020 7:10 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 19:10:55 -0400

You could receive an AR15, or you could be chartered. There are a lot of options. If you repeatedly fail to complete unit requirements, one has to ask why. Many Soldiers purposefully fail requirements hoping for chapters, if a unit perceived this to be the case, that is when they look to non judicial punishment. Have you given them that impression.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Aug 11 at 2020 9:15 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 21:15:49 -0400

Malingering...just easier to chapter. Unless they are trying to salvage you with a summarized. Go see TDS.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 11 at 2020 9:26 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 21:26:09 -0400

To answer your question, yes. If you have failed multiple graded training/testing events and received appropriate counselings after each failure the command would be within their obligations to enforce current policies and regulations

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2020 9:57 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 21:57:44 -0400

At the moment no the can’t due to the introduction of the APFT. Your last PT test is valid until further notice. Unless you failed tour last PT test as well

Response by Maj John Bell made Aug 11 at 2020 11:24 PM

Maj John Bell — Tue, 11 Aug 2020 23:24:41 -0400

Instead of posting on RP, you should be doing something to improve your fitness.

Without knowing the details, if the command wants to punish you on the way out the door, I have to ask... are you deliberately trying to get discharged; and they are on to you?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2020 12:02 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 00:02:31 -0400

Can they? Probably. They can certainly send up the paperwork. But it also has to be reviewed by JAG to ensure it's on the up and up.

You need to speak with a JAG Trial Defense Lawyer.

DO NOT LISTEN to the Barracks Lawyers.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Aug 12 at 2020 4:45 AM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 04:45:24 -0400

Here's a thought, seek guidance, get yourself in shape, pass your tests.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Aug 12 at 2020 6:05 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 06:05:25 -0400

Can they? The answer is yes, especially if you have had counseling statements regarding your physical fitness or lack of physical fitness. Quite honestly, I would forego the UCMJ action, and go straight to chaptering you out. Physical fitness is a requirement of your job, and if you cannot meet the requirement, then you should be fired (Chaptered). Physical fitness is an individual responsibility, so, failing to maintain the standard is a form of dereliction of duty. If I were you, I would worry less about UCMJ, and more about getting your ass in regulation and shape.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Aug 12 at 2020 7:24 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 07:24:14 -0400

Not sure how long you have been in the Army but you are listed as an Infantryman. If you are an infantryman and you cannot pass a PFT and you cannot make a hump you are a liability to everyone in your squad/platoon/company etc. People will have to carry your weight, your load and/or risk their life to take care of you in combat. Your duty is to be ready, in shape and prepared to answer the call. Clearly you are not ready for duty. The army does not provide golf carts in combat to carry you around.

The simplest thing to do is to get in shape and pass the PFT and not fall out of humps. If that is not something you will do them the next best things would be bowing out as honorably/quickly as possible. Fighting the system and trying to avoid responsibility is not going to work well for you or shine well on you as you go down the path with your chain of command. They have seen this all before and you are only wasting their valuable time.

It is your responsibility to be in shape, to pass your PFT, to make the hump with your unit, period. You won that, start acting like it.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Aug 12 at 2020 9:15 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 09:15:33 -0400

PFC Private RallyPoint Member I usually don't get involved in these types of questions on RallyPoint, but since I was enlisted for 9 years and commissioned for 28 years I thought I would add my 2 cents. You shouldn't have even asked a question about something you know the answer to. Right? The APFT has been around forever and it's part of what we do to mainatin the fitness and readiness of ALL soldiers (male and female) no matter what their MOS is. I started taking the PT Test in (1975) with (5) events in combat boots and fatigues (no running outfit or tennis shoes) and I my first assignment was Co C, 2nd of the 17th Infantry, 7th Infantry Division, Fort Ord, CA (Buffalos) where I still took my PT Tests (5 Events) in combat boots and fatigues (no Fatigue Shirt) and I passed, because first, I wanted to personally as part of my self-respect and determination, Secondly, to meet the requirements of the Army, and third to make sure that I was doing may part for the unit (physcial fitness and readiness) - let me see that is referred to Unit Integrity and Unit Pride. In 37 years from age 17 to age 54 (retired 2012) I passed or surpassed the APFT requirements because that is what the Army asked and demanded of me as soldier, NCO, and Officer. A one time I worked so hard that I maxed the PT Test in Europe three years in a row. If you want to be a part of the Army and Soldier with self-respect, self- discipline, and selfless service then get yourself in shape. It takes working out every day instead sitting on your bunk or going out and partying. It takes doing push-ups and sit-ups every night before you to to bed (every night) and even with the newest version of the APFT there are things you can do to improve your physcial fitness daily. You have to want it! If not, then see all the responses from these great Senior NCOs, CSMs, and 1SGs - you can get an Article 15 and you can be Chapter out of the military. The choice is yours. Just my 2 cents Colton!

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 12 at 2020 3:07 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 15:07:05 -0400

Read the UCMJ manual- you can get an ART15 and or court-marital for any violation of those regs- any it doesn't have to be numerous times. It will be easier on your command to just toss you out on a chapter since you can't soldier.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2020 11:26 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 11:26:17 -0400

I had a soldier not pass is APFT for years. I also reduced him in rank at least once I can remember. In fact the Retention NCO came into my office and told me he had a soldier that wanted to extend his contract, but that he recommended I DO NOT grant him the waiver needed because he was flagged for APFT. WOW....... that's the first time Retention came in and recommended I NOT grant a waiver, and without saying the name I knew exactly who he was talking about.

Well, the soldier had TWO WEEKS before he ETS'd and without MY WAIVER I could FINALLY get him out. USAR Generals are reluctant to kick soldiers out for anything less than drugs or criminal acts, so I couldn't get him out with a Chapter Packet with APFT as the only reason.

But I HAD HIM!!!! There's NO WAY he's going to pass APFT, right?

So I told him, and I was very arrogant about it, I finally can get rid of him without having to go through a General. I have no interest in granting him a waiver. HOWEVER, he has two weeks before ETS, and if he can come into the office before then my full time staff will administer the APFT for him, and if he passes, I will remove the flag, and there is nothing stopping him from re-enlisting.

The SOB passed. Are you F-ing kidding me????????? HE PASSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He hadn't passed in FOUR YEARS, and when it was on the line he managed to pull it out in TWO WEEKS!!!!! It was the RUN that was failing him, and I absolutely KNOW my full time NCO's didn't fudge this guy's numbers on the Record APFT, because if he was GONE everyone's administrative life would be much better.

I personally think that there is a generation of soldiers out there that think breaking a sweat is an emergency medical condition.

Response by SFC Wilfredo Ramos made Sep 13 at 2020 10:51 PM

SFC Wilfredo Ramos — Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:51:25 -0400

Army standards are there for a reason to keep Soldiers capable of fulfilling the Army's primary mission "to fight and win the United States wars.". If you are not able to maintain these standards you cannot continue in the Army.