Can I recieve a negitive counseling for not answering my phone?

2018-10-16T06:43:29-04:00

Recently my nco try getting a hold of me at 2am called and texted my 8 of more times till he showed up at my house
Granted when we got off the day before they said keep your ringers on(in which I forgot to do)this happened Thursday, on Monday I was counseled for failure to follow instructions, and have to write a 1000 word essay on the importance of directions and accountability, and also report to the Cq desk every Tuesday Thursday and Saturday at 0515, I’m not complaining, I’d be mad too , but to me it my personal property that the army doesn’t pay for,so was this right/ correct

Response by SFC Jason Evans made Oct 16 at 2018 7:48 AM

2018-10-16T07:48:42-04:00

Yes and your supervisor needs to be able to reach you pretty much at all times unless you’re on leave. Unit recalls happen at least annually to test the roster. If you didn’t have a cell phone, you need to have a different method to be reached on short notice. The alternatives are a land line or live at the unit.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Oct 16 at 2018 11:28 AM

2018-10-16T11:28:46-04:00

SPC Private RallyPoint Member - Short answer: Yes, you can be counseled for it.

From your own admission, your NCO instructed you to keep your phone and ringer turned on during the weekend so you could be contacted. You failed to meet the expected standard. Be glad a counseling and writing assignment are are you are receiving. Had your NCO or someone higher in the Chain so desired, they could have been real @$$holes and pushed for UCMJ action for disobeying a direct order (yeah, I know, it's stretching and total BS if they did but it COULD happen).

Use this as the learning opportunity it is. I have no doubt you'll soon reach NCO status yourself and will be tasked with looking out for junior Soldiers. It will become glaringly apparent why adherence to instruction and standards are necessary. Learn from this. You'll be a better NCO in the long run.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2018 11:45 AM

2018-10-16T11:45:56-04:00

You were instructed to keep your ringer on. You admitted you failed to do so. Being a personal phone is not relevant. You were given lawful instruction and failed to follow those instructions.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Oct 16 at 2018 12:50 PM

2018-10-16T12:50:14-04:00

It is just a counseling statement. You failed to do as you were told. It isn't like you are getting chaptered for this, who cares?

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Oct 16 at 2018 1:11 PM

2018-10-16T13:11:20-04:00

I once had to write an essay on disrespectful facial expressions because my NCO perceived my eyes as disrespectful. To be honest, they probably were but at the time I thought it was ridiculous because I did what he said and didn't "talk back". Accountability is a much bigger issue. The cell phone issue has been argued and lost for a long time. My first unit gave the option of be reachable by phone or be remanded to the barracks. Accept that you made a mistake and dont repeat it. One counseling is not the end all to be all unless you are a repeat offender. They are meant to help you learn and grow.

Response by SPC Patricia K. (Williams) Elliott made Oct 16 at 2018 2:41 PM

2018-10-16T14:41:19-04:00

If you are required to be accessible at all times then you had better be accessible regardless of whether it's your phone or one that is given to you by your company!! You got off lucky in regards to the punishment you received. Keep the ringer on when told to! Back in the day when I was in you would have received an Article 15 for failure to obey an order!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2018 3:21 PM

2018-10-16T15:21:58-04:00

The Army cannot make you get a cell phone, but they can make you answer it if you have one. I have been in units where Soldiers were forced to live in the barracks because they either didn't have a means of communicating with their leadership after-hours or they flat out refused to answer their phone once their duty day was over.

I honestly think your punishment is fitting. It's not over-the-top and it is not too lenient. It seems like you have a decent leadership team watching over you and your buddies. From what I have seen on Rally Point, a lot of Soldiers wish they had a leadership team like yours. Take the time and put some thought in your essay. As a leader, I hate it when I give an essay assignment and the Soldier half-asses it. Put yourself in your NCO's shoes and try to see things from his point-of-view and learn from this. One day you will have stripes and you can use instances like this to help you as you mentor and train the next batch of young Soldiers.

Response by SSG Matthew Koehler made Oct 16 at 2018 3:31 PM

2018-10-16T15:31:32-04:00

What was his message at 2am?

Response by SrA John Monette made Oct 16 at 2018 4:17 PM

2018-10-16T16:17:18-04:00

yup

Response by SrA John Monette made Oct 16 at 2018 4:31 PM

2018-10-16T16:31:40-04:00

no, you cannot receive negitive counseling. however, you can and probably will receive negAtive counseling

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Oct 16 at 2018 4:44 PM

2018-10-16T16:44:23-04:00

No offense...but you joined the Army...they did not join you. You have to follow the rules that are set up according to your unit. Just to flip it...how would you handle it if you had a soldier you are responsible for that you could not get a hold of?

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Oct 16 at 2018 5:37 PM

2018-10-16T17:37:08-04:00

You were lucky! In my time & my regiments, we had to be prepared to go wheels up in 18 hours- they were unit tests, army exercises and even real deployments- In your case- it could have been UCMJ for missing movement with a Field grade Art 15. Use this as a practical experience to do as ordered, and work it out.

Response by SGT Phelan Hoover made Oct 16 at 2018 5:48 PM

2018-10-16T17:48:22-04:00

Yes, specialist Jeffy you can bec counseled and even more so if the mission was important. You could of gotten yourself a shiny article 15. You even said, that it's your phone not his property. You are the governments property 24/7. Not wanting to answer the phone, becuase you think that he doesnt pay for your phone is redundant. You still have to follow orders, if you cannot be relied on, failure to adapt and then kick you out. Their are many differant ways to get kicked out is service for stupid shit. 2 a.m. in the morning you should be used too not getting any sleep. Non-Commissioned Officer for life-peace bitch.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2018 7:15 PM

2018-10-16T19:15:14-04:00

The answers you're being given are a bunch of bull. The harsh reality is they can counsel you, sure but it's not justifiable. Whatever the Army requires of you, it issues you and more likely than not you weren't issued a phone. With that being said, you're not obligated to answer the phone you pay for. If they wanted to get in touch with you, there are other means but don't confuse past practice for actuality.

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Oct 16 at 2018 9:27 PM

2018-10-16T21:27:02-04:00

Liberty is not a right, but a privilege. There is no regulation that requires you to use your personal cell phone, or car for official business. Suggest you tell your command that if the Army doesn't issue it, then you won't use your personal devices. Your boss will gladly accept your decision and ensure you never see the civilian side of your base fence again.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Oct 16 at 2018 11:27 PM

2018-10-16T23:27:50-04:00

The Army is 24/7. This is basic Army stuff. The alternative to you being reachable is to check in with staff duty on a really short interval or providing a contact number to each location as you arrive and depart. Sound ridiculous? This was life pre-cell phone, especially if you were on any kind of stand by or alert status. my Dad did this for an entire enlistment as a SAC Ground Crew Member on three hour Nuclear alert. So it's nothing new. This is the alternative to a cell phone.

You are lucky to have an NCO that cares enough to come to your house and make sure you are safe.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 17 at 2018 9:45 AM

2018-10-17T09:45:26-04:00

I'm going to take a different route and say that, the mere fact you are able to recognize your fault in the matter and accept your punishment like an adult, tells me you will do fairly well for yourself in the military. As you stay longer in the Army, you will see that although your Soldiers will make mistakes, the ones who can recognize their fault, learn from it, and move on, could end up being your most dependable Soldiers.

That said, accountability is a very important topic. Depending on the type of unit you are in and/or the region you are working in, cell phone contact can be crucial. For instance, if an Emergency Deployment Readiness Exercise (EDRE) happens, they need to be able to reach you quickly in order for your unit to meet its activation timeline (often within 2 hours); you will eventually hear of the term "N+2" There are often follow-on actions that occur throughout the remainder of the exercise, which require units to move quickly. For instance think of South Korea; in the event of a North Korean invasion, units being able to reach everyone quickly can make a massive difference in our ability to defend and repel attacks, while also getting civilians out of the country through Non-Combatant Evacuation Operations (NEO).

Cell phones make it to where units do not necessarily (but still can) have to hold multiple mandatory formations throughout any given day. In 2007, I was rotated back from COP Callahan to FOB Taji for a 12-hour re-fit (PX run, DFAC, MWR, quiet sleep, and such). During those 12-hours, we had to physically attend 3-4 accountability formations in our tent area, which took almost an hour to get to, because the FOB shuttles only came around every 30 minutes or so and it took 30 minutes to get to the tents. So say I am at the tents, it would take an hour to get to the DFAC, then I have to spend an hour getting back for formation. Then if I want to go to the PX, I have to spend another hour; shortly after getting there, I have to spend another hour heading back to the next formation. Then if I want to go to MWR it would take another hour. Then of course we have to get back for to prep gear and convoy brief, so that's another hour of transit. That's 6-hours out of a 12-hour refit spent just transiting to mandatory formations. The next time a re-fit came around, I waived my rotation.

So while there is no regulation specifying Army leaders can dictate the specific usage of your cell phone, it is VERY MUCH in the best interest of a Soldier's personal time to be available for instant contact, rather than having to transit for formations. While cell phone contact is unofficial, it has been accounted for in the U.S. Army's ability to respond to global threats very quickly, while maximizing Soldier down-time (except for that one 1SG that loves to hold everybody late, lol).