Can i still fight my ABCP Chapter 18 if it’s already been approved by the BC?

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 18:47:21 -0400

So here’s some back round: i was put on ABCP because of rapid weight gain due to a medical condition right before COVID. My first month on it I didn’t show improvement(but I didn’t gain), I was exactly the same weight and BFP. Then next few months I made progress. The month covid started I had a second “no progress”(again same story as the first with the not gaining but just stalling). April I received a counseling that ABCP was being suspended until further noticed. We had no ht/wt or remedial PT until July. In July I met with the commander to do a weigh in and when we did my counseling he told me AND WROTE ON MY COUNSELING THAT IT WAS MY INITIAL WEIGH IN AND I WAS RESTARTING ON THE ABCP PROGRAM. My first line was with me and he verified that none of my stuff was going to be held against me from before COVID. The commander said it would not but that he was going to keep the nutrition and medical memo so that I didn’t have to redo those but that the actual paperwork as far as weigh ins was starting over. Cool. Well fast forward to September. I had a month again, only lost 2 lbs and my BFP stayed the same as the month before. My commander then told me he was initiating my chapter but not to worry because initiating didn’t mean I was done and out. Let’s fast forward to last month… I have since September still been participating in ht/wt and taping and making progress every month. As well as finally being treated for the temporary medical condition that had caused me to gain the weight and had medication changes to help me lose the weight and to regulate some hormone and vitamin deficiencies that also played a part in the weight issues. However, when I weighed in, I am still just 2% over(I started at 9%over and that 9% happened in less than 4 months which is what sparked almost a year of testing).. my commander advised me he was moving ahead with the chapter and sending it to the BC so I needed to contact TDS if I didn’t agree. I have less than 6 years of service so I do not qualify for a separation board. However I met with them and the attourney told me I had a good case and I shouldn’t be separated due to 1) the NEW Inital counseling in July, 2) the temporary health conditions which I should have been given time to deal with before even being negatively impacted by that(yes I know I’d still be in ABCP but he said I shouldn’t be being chartered) and 3) some of my counseling’s aren’t signed or some of the 5501 aren’t signed or there isn’t a confirmation tape in the packet. He writes me a memo. Tells me to have my NCO to write a sworn statement about what was said during my counseling session, get character statements, and to write my own.

Now today, I get called into the commanders office and am told to bring my LES. I am informed that the BC approved my chapter and my last day in the Army is April 12(so 19 days from now) and I should expect my orders tomorrow by email) and I will start clearing on Monday.

So I guess I’m wondering, is that it? Can I still try to go to TDS and fight it because I feel as though the BC didn’t read anything that was sent up to her by me. And obviously the BC and company commander see each other on a much more regular basis than I see her considering I don’t even know what by BC looks like. So maybe she’s just taking my CC word and just chattering me? I’m just so confused right now and kinda feel like I’m being screwed. This man literally said “you’re an outstanding soldier and have the potential to be a great NCO. But that doesn’t mean you belong in the army. Not everyone does.” Like wtf does that even mean? Also, sorry about the rant. My head is a mess. I knew this was a possibility but I’ve been working hard with my doctors on top of the PT and I’m sooooo close to being done and my NCOs were even making future plans for me cause they knew by next month with the rate I had been at these last 2 months I would be done with ABCP. And my commander just had me on this “initiation does not mean separation” bullshit belief. He said it every month when I met with him. And then BAM. I’m gone.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2021 7:05 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:05:53 -0400

I recommend you go back to TDS. TDS can speak with MAMC's legal department and get a strait answer for you on the status. (not sure this would happen before Monday)
If for some reason the chapter goes through and you are discharged, it will be honorable and you can reenlist at a later date - gives you more time to get in shape.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 25 at 2021 7:41 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:41:45 -0400

By all means go see JAG/Legal, ASAP.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2021 7:56 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 19:56:00 -0400

I plan on doing this first thing in the morning. I attempted to call TDS but the closed at 1500 and I called at 1459(when I got realeased and calmed down a bit). The more my NCOs and I go through my paperwork the more we don’t understand why he did it and how it could have gotten approved and done so fast and without hesitation. I’m taking my time this evening to gather everything together yet again along with the regulations and medical documents to see why can be done early tomorrow morning. One of my NCOs did try to say “they are cutting orders so it’s too late to try to even fight anything now” but I’m also being told but some others that I can still fight it because I haven’t put processed at all and my orders can be put on hold or canceled if there needs to be more of an investigation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2021 8:10 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:10:39 -0400

If you have orders cut then that's it. It's hard for a commander to justify why they have a Soldier flagged for ABCP/APFT for over a year. These flags are reviewed at the Brigade and even Division level when they go over six months in length. At that point your Commanders bosses are pressuring him/her to separate you.

Your commander did you a solid by reinitiating your ABCP several months after your first weigh in, either that or the admin portion wasn't followed up on correctly and they decided to restart the process. It happens more than you'd think. Also, height and weight requirements were never suspended, only the requirements to conduct an APFT every six months. People with failing APFTs still have to take an APFT and pass, so if you had a failing APFT along with your ABCP that's two reasons your Brigade and Battalion level Commanders would be pushing for your separation.

You can always come back down the road with a waiver if this is what you want to do.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2021 8:43 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:43:42 -0400

Reach out to TDS again, and ask about preparing a letter through your chain of command to brigade requesting a suspension of separation. You will need character references from those you have worked with who know your character as a Soldier. I suggest an array of NCO and officer references.

Additionally enclose all supporting documents that show your improvement and medical issues.

Don't stop fighting until the last second, and even if you go down you can still get back in just keep at it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2021 9:06 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 21:06:39 -0400

I'd go back to TDS because this all sounds shady as f*.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2021 12:49 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Mar 2021 00:49:37 -0400

This is a tough one. The commander may be looking at this from another angle. If the BDE commander signed the packet it is usually approved by the BDE legal team. I am curious how this came out. I have discharged quite a few. I have never seen one that was signed by a BDE Commander get overturned.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2021 4:40 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Mar 2021 16:40:29 -0400

There was a common misconception with COVID; ABCP was not suspended, if you were on it, you remained on it until successful removal from it. All policies and procedures surrounding ABCP were still in effect and required proper mitigation.

If you were on ABCP and failed to make progress or regressed, you failed the program and are subject to separation. Not much TDS can do for you if you had 3 weigh ins, and only made progress on 1.