Can I sue National Guard for unpaid time they force us to stay at drill?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 16:00:06 -0400

Can I sue National Guard for unpaid time they force us to stay at drill? Also meals that are not provided for us with no added pay for meal allowences should we be compensated?
Here's the situation we have a scheduled MUTA 2 prior to Annual Training report time is 0800 we spend all day and night there without any meals being provided then we are told we can not leave! A MUTA equals 4 hours shouldn't we be paid for the rest of the time we are forced to stay?

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Jun 16 at 2019 4:16 PM

MAJ Javier Rivera — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 16:16:19 -0400

I would address it first with the IG.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jun 16 at 2019 5:09 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 17:09:55 -0400

Short answer: Probably not.

Longer answer: You should begin by bringing up the missed meals to you CoC. If they are not responsive, then the IG route is always an option. You'd probably have better luck by starting at the lowest level possible (ie: your PSG, BN 1SG/CO). It's possible they don't realize meals are being missed. There is a DoD regulation that covers being reimbursed for missed meals but I've been out so long I don't remember the number for it.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jun 17 at 2019 6:42 AM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 06:42:21 -0400

No, you can't sue the military. But you can use the COC and IG. Just remember the IG in the guard can only make recommendations.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Jun 17 at 2019 10:02 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 10:02:44 -0400

Actually, a Unit Training Assembly is a MINIMUM of 4 hours, minus meal breaks. If you are in the field during a MUTA, the training day is half a day. Under normal circumstances, the unit should try to mirror local duty hours, but it's still mission sensitive.
OTOH, if they keep you beyond a certain time period, the leadership should have arranged for some kind of meal and meal break, but there is nothing in the regulation that states anything about an 8 hour day except as a minimum.

Response by SSG Darrell Peters made Jun 17 at 2019 4:30 PM

SSG Darrell Peters — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:30:10 -0400

You cannot sue the National Guard. Legally they can keep you until Midnight. I dealt with this issue and it is in the regulations concerning food and subsistence. If you are called in before 6AM they must feed you Breakfast, If they Keep you past 6PM they must feed you Dinner. However, they only have to feed you One Hot meal. Guess what the other two meals can be? MRE's or Box Lunches. If meals are not being provided then you have an IG complaint. as for extra pay not going to happen, They can legally call you in at 0600 and keep you until 1200 hrs. However, they must insure you get at least 8 hours of sleep. Research the Regs.
My command when I was in the NG called us in at 0600 hrs It was a range day. we stayed on the range until EVERYBODY Qualified. we had one hot meal and two mre's. I got to bed at 1200 HRS. we were awakend at 0800. The commander can restrict you to an area, however in doing so he must make sure you have food water and toliet facilities. Notice I didn't say anything about a shower or airconditioning.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2019 4:31 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:31:08 -0400

Before you start bringing up legal, I'd suggest you talk to your chain. It sounds more like a unit problem. Your supply rep and CMD team must ensure their troops are fed by providing at least one meal a day. If it exceeds normal training hours, they must provide dinner.

Response by COL William Oseles made Jun 17 at 2019 4:43 PM

COL William Oseles — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:43:03 -0400

A UTA us 2 to 4 hours.
A MUTA is two or more UTAs,
Therefoe 4 to 8 hours if it is on a single day and can be the entire weekend.
Should there be a lunch break or meal provided? Yes, but they may have figure you are adult enough to plan ahead and bring lunch or order delivery.

Response by COL Brian Shea made Jun 17 at 2019 4:57 PM

COL Brian Shea — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:57:28 -0400

A UTA means a minimum of 4 hours. So for a MUTA 2 it's a minimum of 8 hours. So as far as the time you are at the unit it seems within regs. Yes, your unit should be providing both a noon and evening meal especially if they are requiring you to stay put. Of course, that could mean MRE's for one or both meals. I agree with the other comments about starting with your chain of command to address the meals. No 1SG worth their salt would permit such a thing. The time, presumably 0800-2400 is likely a non-issue.

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Jun 18 at 2019 9:43 AM

MAJ Ron Peery — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 09:43:51 -0400

Without more information, it would be difficult to suggest a solution for you. But if suing is the first remedy that comes to your mind, your priorities may be out of whack.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2019 12:33 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:33:25 -0400

No, you cannot sue the National Guard. As a SSG I'm actually surprised that you came here looking for answers rather than addressing it with your Chain of Command or your Support Channels. You are an NCO you should have addressed it at say 1300 when you realized there was no chow for your soldiers.

As for the Unit Training Assembly (UTA) it is not a 4 hour day, its actually 1 training day which must be no less than 4 hours. (NGR 350-1 Table 3-3) A Multiple Unit Training Assembly (MUTA) are multiple UTAs and each shall be no less than 4 hours. Technically, the Command could in fact use a UTA and hold you for 24 hours. Your MUTA 4 which you conducted that weekend is authorized to be as short as 2 days and as long as 4 days.

My strategy on this would be to address the lack of food with the NCO channels and your Command. I would also ensure my Soldiers understand the UTA appropriately.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 19 at 2019 12:27 AM

SSG Brian G. — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 00:27:24 -0400

Wow. Ok, a 'muta' is one four hour period. So a "muta-2" is 8 hours. Normally this is an 0800 muster and a meal (lunch) provided in the way of meal reimbursement. That is just a payment thing, as far as how long they can keep you? They can keep you until midnight as each 2 Muta's is a days pay.

You are not owed anything additional in terms of pay. You are however entitled to a second meal being provided, and yes an MRE counts as a meal.

Sounds like your unit has had problems in the past of soldiers being no-shows to AT muster and this is the way they solved it.

No, you cannot sue the National Guard. Your recourse is to go through your chain of command and make them aware of the situation. However as you have stated elsewhere, they are there with you, you may need to address this higher in your chain of command and possibly IG to get redress. However you will not get any sort of compensation backdated, merely from this date forth.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2019 2:56 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 14:56:20 -0400

If meals were an issue than the senior leaders should have stepped up and figured something out. Many times My platoon leader and I split the cost to order a few pizzas to feed our troops when MRE's weren't available and we didn't have the time to let troops go to lunch or dinner chow. But yeah suing the NG that's funny. I hope you aren't talking like this around your troops. Its bad enough they got to stay late with no food. If they see and hear you complaining it definitely makes things worse.

Response by MSgt Michael Bischoff made Jun 21 at 2019 9:14 AM

MSgt Michael Bischoff — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 09:14:53 -0400

You must also remember you are governed under Title 32 not Title 10 when doing you weekends and such. Therefore any issue you have and question run up through your chain to the TAG's office. It appears to me you only real argument is the meals unless as stated by others you we're offered MRE's then it also is moot.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2019 4:18 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 16:18:44 -0400

Definitely not. A muta is any four hour minimim period for pay within the hours of 0000 through 1200 and 1201 through 2400. If you are being held beyond 1800hrs, the unit is responsible to feed the soldiers. If the unit provides an MRE for supper, it will suffice.

You always have the responsibility to bring it to the Chain if Command. If not resolved, you can file an IG complaint.

Response by SGT Eric Davis made Jun 26 at 2019 1:41 PM

SGT Eric Davis — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 13:41:02 -0400

No about the pay cause when you are at drill technically you are on military time and they can make you stay there or sleep in the drill hall. You know you are only required 4 hours of sleep in the military. So the only issue you have is the meals!

Response by CPL Mark Garrigus made Dec 29 at 2019 1:23 PM

CPL Mark Garrigus — Sun, 29 Dec 2019 13:23:34 -0500

Sounds like a NG question!

Response by CPT Brad Wilson made Feb 2 at 2020 11:05 AM

CPT Brad Wilson — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 11:05:58 -0500

A MUTA 2 is generally an entire day To get credit for a MUTA 2 each UTA has to be a minimum of 4 hours. When my unit did a pre AT MUTA 2 they provided lunch Since BN MESS was busy packing out their equipment this was usually a sack lunch or MRE but sometimes Bn Supply was able to get a catered meal (Subway or KFC) if they could provide meals cheaper than the government meals and many times the could. Going through your chain of command is the best route but a law suite even if allowed will never make it. The reimbursement rate for lunch and dinner the last time I checked was 6-7 dollars the fee to file in small claims court is more than that. If it’s that big of a deal save your receipt and claim it on your taxes

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2020 12:41 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 00:41:41 -0400

Regs are pretty clear about when they are required to provide a meal (MRE counts, no one cares if you dont agree) and even if you are allowed to leave, they still have to provide. If you're kept past a certain time in the evening, you get dinner.
Also, no, you cannot sue, but you can go through the proper process to get the reimbursement or the MRE. Did anyone in the whole unit ask where food was?

Response by SPC Dawn Appelberg (Johnson) made Aug 4 at 2020 6:32 PM

SPC Dawn Appelberg (Johnson) — Tue, 04 Aug 2020 18:32:31 -0400

Military pay clerk here!!!! (well out now.) The guard pays two units a day - supposedly 4 hour time slot (yeah right). If they calle d oyu in the day before or the day after they have to pay you the UTA. If you stayed late on a drill date you are SOL.