Can my company commander force me to go to a school? If not, what's the policy and regulation?

2020-06-17T09:30:30-04:00

My company commander is attempting to force me to go to RSLC(a recon school) but I don't want to go. I want to go to RASP 1 and go to Regiment, but he says that he can force me to go to RSLC. I need to know if this is true, and if it's not, what the regulation is so I can show him proof. He also told me that he won't sign my 4187 for RASP unless I go to RSLC.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2020 9:37 AM

2020-06-17T09:37:36-04:00

Did you stop and think that RSLC will help you later on with RASP?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2020 9:43 AM

2020-06-17T09:43:16-04:00

Your company commander MUST sign your 4187 with either a recommendation of approval or disapproval. A commander may not simply ignore a request. Elevate the issue to your 1SG and CSM and if there is no movement then talk to IG.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jun 17 at 2020 9:54 AM

2020-06-17T09:54:30-04:00

I don't see the issue. Most folks complain they aren't being sent to schools and courses. Going to the course doesn't hurt you in any way and only adds to your skill set and overall resume. But the real question is this the hill you are willing to die on? If you make a stink over this the Command leadership may be less likely to extend themselves for you in the future. Remember this isn't just about executing orders. It's about networking and personal relationships. Maintaining a positive relationship with your chain of command is important and you will be able to network with the instructors who may be able to generate positive influence to get you where you want to go. RSLC looks to be a relatively short course so I would really think twice before you burn bridges over it. You could piss off some folks and end up not going to any courses.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2020 9:56 AM

2020-06-17T09:56:43-04:00

I never in my mind thought I would see something like this. Most of the Army wants to "save money" and only uses schools for retention incentives and rewards, this guy actually wants to send people without them requesting first.
I'd love to say RSLC should be used for the scouts, but man you are getting a slot for a VERY good, difficult, looks great, fantastic training course without having to fight for it.

The 75th also does not like to accept experienced 11B into the Regiment unless they are that good of a Soldier - they like to develop from within (just talk to the Recruiters). Having RSLC will absolutely be one of those courses to show them you are worth them taking the chance to accept you. Not many people get that school.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 17 at 2020 9:57 AM

2020-06-17T09:57:22-04:00

In general military training courses are at least useful to your MOS expertise and at best can alter your career path. I say stop complaining and take every opportunity to go to school that you’re offered. Your Sargents and commander usually have your best interests in mind as well as filling training quotas.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2020 10:06 AM

2020-06-17T10:06:06-04:00

he may not be able to technically order you to go to the school but if you refuse he can do other things to make your life much more difficult. I had a BN CO explain it to me thusly when I was a 2LT, "I can't force you to do it, but it will reflect poorly on your next OER if you refuse"

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Jun 17 at 2020 10:52 AM

2020-06-17T10:52:00-04:00

You never, ever turn down the chance to go to a school. I have never heard of a Soldier try to not go to a professional school. With you trying to decline a school, I doubt your CoC will be looking to send you to any other schools. You should never bite the hand that feeds you.

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Jun 17 at 2020 11:39 AM

2020-06-17T11:39:51-04:00

Ah.... yet another “Can my CO order me to” question.

If the order is not unlawful then the answer is yes, he can order you to do it. He literally has “command” authority over you. He told you to do something and you are refusing to do it simply cause “I don’t want to do it”. Sorry sweet cheeks that ain’t how the military does things. You want to push the issue you will find out that you and the SMA will have one thing in common, you both have reached your maximum enlisted pay grade.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Jun 17 at 2020 11:51 AM

2020-06-17T11:51:17-04:00

Sounds to me like he wants to use RSLC as a test to see if you are worth the effort to send to RASP. I would give RSLC a go, it's taught by the Ranger School and a month running around in the woods with the RI's can't hurt your chances when you go to RASP.
The Commander must sign a 4187, but he can sign it and disapprove it. The CO's opinion goes a long way in the Army, so if he disapproves you most likely won't get a slot.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 17 at 2020 3:11 PM

2020-06-17T15:11:58-04:00

Look Kid, LTG Luck- XVIII ABC Cdr, got so fed up with sending folks to RASP and them boloing out, that he restarted the XVIII ABC Recondo school- as a 2 wk mini-ranger camp. You had to pass it or your request would never see the light of day. Yes Command can force you to go to a prelim course like that to insure better pass rates, cause it costs the CoC money to send you to any school.

Response by SFC James Cameron made Jun 17 at 2020 3:27 PM

2020-06-17T15:27:58-04:00

Why would you not want to attend RSLC? That school will make you an asset to any Unit you are assigned to upon completion. You’re mentioning that you want to attend RASP and join the Regiment, but honestly I don’t think you’re hungry enough for that by your post brother. Rangers lead the way for a reason. They stay hungry. You have to stay hungry and eat up any opportunity for training that will expand your radius of lethality.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Jun 17 at 2020 5:41 PM

2020-06-17T17:41:20-04:00

1.) Yes, that is how the whole "Commander" thing works.
2.) Go. To. RSLC.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2020 9:16 PM

2020-06-17T21:16:31-04:00

I tried to go to RSLC once, was threatened with an article 15. Do the school, it's more reason for Regiment to hire you.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2020 9:23 PM

2020-06-17T21:23:41-04:00

Never turn down more training! Your commander obviously thinks you got what it takes to pass the school. Take it as a compliment and go!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2020 9:46 PM

2020-06-17T21:46:25-04:00

All of your advice has been extremely helpful and allowed me to see from different points of view. You've helped convince me so I'll definitely go and crush it best I can. Thanks guys

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2020 10:42 PM

2020-06-17T22:42:26-04:00

I don't see why you wouldn't want to go. If anything it would be a good stepping stone. Riddle me this? What happens if you fail RASP (and with your entitled attitude its very possible) and you must go back to that Company. Who will advocate for you? You may find yourself pushed out. Go to the school.

Response by CSM Michael Chavaree made Jun 18 at 2020 1:31 AM

2020-06-18T01:31:40-04:00

You do realize the RR will make you go to Ranger School, and then Jumpmaster when able... think of it this way. What if you did get into the RR and the company commander told you to go to RLSC... would you refuse? That would get you a quick slot to Korea or the 82nd. You should really evaluate your mentality. You are constantly being evaluated and its a small world, you just exposed your true self. Good luck with that.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2020 3:53 PM

2020-06-18T15:53:28-04:00

I volunteered for every school, extra training or anything they offered. It opened up a lot of doors and was the best choice. Sanitation! I did avoid that training.

Response by SSG James Stodola made Jun 19 at 2020 9:53 AM

2020-06-19T09:53:07-04:00

Like I have said to many young soldiers on their way up, or at least trying to. Pick your battles son, this is not a fight you want on your record and trust me it will wind up there. I realize there are specific differences yet many similarities in these two schools. Take the RSLC school, do well and later on down the road if you want RASP 1, then go for it. The thing is if you are going to be around for a while, i.e. career, you never turn down schools. When I was in 1973-2005, schools weren't that easy to get, if they are throwing it at you, stand there and catch it and run with it. I see you didn't state your MOS, if you are 11B then you will have a chance at further schools in the direction you seem to want to go. It sounds like you are trying ultimately to get to Ranger school, honorable direction and hope you make it, but don't rock the boat, YOUR boat on the way there.

Response by PO2 Danielle Bohanan made Jun 28 at 2020 7:58 PM

2020-06-28T19:58:21-04:00

I think that you should say you are going to the school they asked you to go to and submit your request for the other as well. They will be more likely to approve what you want if you cooperate. Besides the more things you have in your wheelhouse the better prepared you are for when you get out.

Response by Lt Col Leo Shockley made Jul 6 at 2020 12:09 AM

2020-07-06T00:09:31-04:00

So go to RSLC then hold him to it. Better --get it in writing

Response by SGT Tom Moore made Jul 9 at 2020 10:16 AM

2020-07-09T10:16:58-04:00

I am sorry but to me this might be the dumbest thing I have heard a young soldier ask.
Listen let’s be real. As a private my first school was Field Sanitation. I hated it but, I knew if I excelled in it it was a precursor to ask for and qualify for other schools. Passing schools, boards, PT test etc. are what separate the good soldiers that are doing their best with the “shit bags” that are just their for the benefit of a monthly check.
I understand you want Rasp. Not too many 11B don’t, you are young. Finishing these schools will only better qualify you for other requests down the road.
Put in your 4187. Let the Commander do his thing with it. Complete this school come back and start the quest for RASP. Remember, biting the hand that feeds you will only lead to your own misery. It may not be direct retaliation but, you better believe they aren’t going to do much for you in the future. Apparently to be sent to this school on first site you are being recommended for a reason. Don’t kill that momentum. Pick your battles. This one is not a win. Good Luck AATW!

Response by SFC David Drury made Jul 10 at 2020 10:13 PM

2020-07-10T22:13:02-04:00

WTF! When my Command said jump... I asked how high... thats how is was, and thats how it should remain

Response by Capt Joseph Schvimmer made Jul 11 at 2020 12:14 PM

2020-07-11T12:14:07-04:00

You can butt heads with a superior and prove how right you are and end up long term shooting yourself in the foot because you will have made an enemy who can impede your choices, OR, you can smile and say after i go to your school can i go to my choice? And more likely go where you wanted and have him backing you. It is called dealing with people!

Response by SFC Eric Bates made Jul 30 at 2020 12:07 PM

2020-07-30T12:07:42-04:00

I see you posted this in 75th Ranger Rgt, and that's why I'm responding. I went through RIP (Ranger Indoctrination Program) so I a commenting under the assumption that RASP in this case is the new RIP.

My first reaction is this; if you are seeking RASP, is it to go to Ranger School or to go to an actual Ranger Battalion? If its to go to a Bat, then that is a unit request. I see you are a specialist, so you don't need the letter that officer's and NCO's need (at least I don't think you do), so this should just be a simple unit transfer request. I admit I am not up on admin stuff, but I don't understand why you need permission from your commander to request going to a unit that you believe will better yourself. So my first reaction is that you need to go to your admin office and ask about unit transfer.

Which leads me to my second though. Your CO said go to RSLC and that he wouldn't send you to RASP unless you do. I interpret this as, pass RSLC and then he would consider giving you the shot at RASP. So this is a no brainer: Go to RSLC. Even if you don't want to go, you should be able to take something away from that school. If you absolutely feel the need (which I am not keen on this idea), you can always write in a comment on your eval about your interest to go to RASP and how your goal is to obey orders so you went to RSLC so you could get your shot at RASP.

I think you have a larger problem though. To me, and this is just based on reading between the lines, I get the sense your CO isn't convinced you either deserve RASP or that you can make it if he does send you. The fact that you are complaining about going to a specialty school is a little mind boggling to me, especially because RSLC seems like it would be conducive to helping you prepare for RASP.

Good luck either way. RLTW!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2020 12:26 PM

2020-07-30T12:26:02-04:00

I curious how this turned out. If you had RLSC it would look so much better. I hope you have a Ranger Tab at least least. If not they are not going to take you very serious. You may be squared away but there are also a lot of other Soldiers out there with RSLC and Ranger School already knocked out that want to go.

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Jul 31 at 2020 7:36 AM

2020-07-31T07:36:11-04:00

Your Commander obviously has confidence in your ability to complete this course. Personally I would take that as a compliment, thank him and go kick ass. Then when you want to go to another school he is on your side. What's wrong with having another school under your belt?

Response by Cpl Alex Moore made Aug 19 at 2020 11:21 PM

2020-08-19T23:21:19-04:00

For me, I never wanted to do any school ever. I would do what was required of me, i.e. pistol qual, rifle qual, swim qual, heavy weapons qual and a bunch others, however, I never wanted to do the extras. Corporal course, Sergeants course and the like. The main reasons were simple, I knew I wasn't going to promote above E-4 in my first 4 years (it was next to impossible, and the only Sergeant that did promoted 1 month before the end of his enlistment) and I knew, for a fact, that I had no intention of re-enlisting ever. If I had intended on re-enlisting, I would have taken every extra course, done every educational class and done everything I could to make me appear more attractive. You need to ask yourself, am I in for 1 enlistment or do ai want to make this a career? If you intend to re-enlist even once, you need to do the schools. It sounds like your company commander is trying to help you, albeit poorly, and you should consider it. Depending in the commander, maybe you can horse trade. Be careful with this, some will not appreciate it, however, my last company commander was cool and would have done something like it. Tell your commander you would love to go to RSLC, if he will cut orders for RASP 1 at the same time.

Response by CW4 Alex DeLorey made Aug 20 at 2020 8:40 AM

2020-08-20T08:40:32-04:00

I second the DGM’s recommendation. Take the course and don’d fight the system. Chose your battles carefully and wisely. I’d start with your 1st Sgt first and get his guidance; he’ll probably tell you to take the course. Prove your mettle with Top and the CO and then it might be easier to get other training you want to advance in your career. ALs a retired CW4 with 24 years, my only regret is that I didn’t take advantage of all training opportunities offered. Good luck. Take the training. He cant force you but you’re not helping yourself at all.

Response by Pvt Jeff Oehlsen made Aug 31 at 2020 6:19 PM

2020-08-31T18:19:47-04:00

There is a good chance you are a dummy. As a dummy, do what you are told, and stop having ideas. If you continue to have ideas, perhaps you change units.

Also, seriously ? Who cares ? So you get to go to TWO schools instead of one ? Cry me a river. I was a Marine, and when I asked to go to schools, they left billets unfilled rather than advance any of us.

You are living the dream.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 14 at 2020 11:46 PM

2020-09-14T23:46:39-04:00

You sound like you haven’t spoken with the CSM, I am sure he can make you understand the importance of attending all of the schools you can. Your commander sounds like he is trying to groom you. Accept his support.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Sep 14 at 2020 11:51 PM

2020-09-14T23:51:19-04:00

You want to be in Special Operarions and 1, turn down training that can potentially make you better and 2, challenge your command cause you simply don’t want to. Do yourself a favor and stay in the regular Army. You are not Special.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2020 7:13 AM

2020-09-15T07:13:35-04:00

Tell you commander I will take your school slot and have him send me an email!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2020 8:51 AM

2020-09-15T08:51:22-04:00

Dude, go to RSLC take all the schools you can, you’re still young in the military. Soak up all the schools you can as well as shooting your own goals. RASP will still be there after. And if you’re super concerned about it have him counsel you on going to RSLC and then rasp and get that in writing