Can my platoon sgt ban vaping and give us an curfew while in Kuwait?

2020-09-01T10:24:12-04:00

So we got deployed to Kuwait about 5 weeks ago and it’s been totally hell because our platoon sgt is overprotective and loves to play the mommy role from formation every 2 hours to just having meaningless meetings about things that has nothing to do with us for an example we had someone from another unit put some substance in his vape that made him trip out bad and he was rushed to the hospital after that she council us the next day and told us we can be punished by ucmj if she sees us with any kind of vape, we asked for an copy and she refused to give us one now fast forward 2 weeks later someone had a girl in the male bay I guess and someone went and told her she came in and caught them but they were watching a movie not doing anything sexual or anything now she is saying that everyone in the platoon has an 11:30 pm curfew and if you want to go anywhere you will be escorted by an Nco including midnight chow and everything else I just want to know is she allowed to do this stuff because all of us are really considering going to IG

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 10:27 AM

2020-09-01T10:27:02-04:00

I would say he can do this. Whether he should and if it’s easily enforceable, is another question.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 10:29 AM

2020-09-01T10:29:16-04:00

Get it in writing and CMD Concurrence.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 10:31 AM

2020-09-01T10:31:09-04:00

Found this hotline, call and ask them haha.
https://girightshotline.org/

GI Rights Hotline: Military Discharges and Military Counseling

The GI Rights Hotline provides accurate, helpful counseling and information on military discharges, AWOL and UA, and GI Rights:Why should I call 1-877-447-4487?The GI Rights Network…

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 10:33 AM

2020-09-01T10:33:43-04:00

Moral... legal... ethical... your PSG is in the clear.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 10:46 AM

2020-09-01T10:46:09-04:00

Honestly, she can but she gets her power and authorization to impose these measures from her PL who says it's alright to put these measures in place. Remeber as An NCO we are there to enforce the standard and keep order and discipline within the ranks. Maybe you all should have a sit down with her during one of the many meaningless meetings she has and bring up these cocerns in that forum.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 10:52 AM

2020-09-01T10:52:28-04:00

Maybe you should talk to your PSG, then your 1sg, then your commander......

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 11:08 AM

2020-09-01T11:08:17-04:00

I am reading absolutely nothing that is illegal, immoral nor unethical. If the Platoon Sergeant gave these directives, then they more than likely came down the pipe from the Platoon Leader....and possibly the Company Commander. Now, the wonderful thing about the Army is that everyone pays the piper for someone's errors in judgement. But, I digress. To break down your listed concerns:

Vaping, like smoking, is a privilege. I know of no regulations stating that Leaders HAVE to let you smoke/dip/vape. And if some dumbass wants to taint his vape juice...then your Platoon Sergeant is actually protecting you by eliminating that possibility.

Formations every 2 hours? You are in a forward deployed location. These formations are for accountability and information dissemination. It could be worse. Trust me.

UCMJ? That one is a bit of a reach as NCOs do not give UCMJ. We recommend. But, if you were given a legal order not to vape and you do....well....

Are females allowed in the male bays? If not, then they violated orders/policies.

Curfews? Your curfew is 2330 and you're upset? Be glad it's not a 2000 curfew or a 1900 one. Again, nothing illegal, immoral nor unethical.

NCO escort at midnight? In Iraq and Kuwait back in '10-'11, there was a rash of rapes and stabbings of people walking by themselves at night with no battle buddy.

If y'all want to go to IG, go ahead. However, be prepared to be told that no policies, regulations or orders are being violated.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Sep 1 at 2020 11:26 AM

2020-09-01T11:26:26-04:00

From what you have listed I don't see anything you can take to the IG that will stick. They will investigate it and if there isn't anything actionable it will get get cleared and anything you complain about in the future will be overshadowed by the fact you already went to IG with no real evidence of wrong doing. Don't break that glass unless you have a legit problem.

The problem is that your fellow colleagues there are screwing the pooch which puts the leadership in a reactionary posture.

Somebody gets dosed using a vape. They ban vapes. They segregate the living spaces but somebody sneaks in a girl. They restrict liberty as a result. You can't complain about the punishment if idiots are breaking the rules and continuing to do so. I'm not defending the punishments given but you can't realistically think you can break the rules and not get push back. Everyone there is an adult and needs to come to terms with the consequences of their actions.

Response by COL David Turk made Sep 1 at 2020 11:33 AM

2020-09-01T11:33:55-04:00

I’ll put it back on you; you’re now the PSG, how would handle these issues? Remember, you are deployed (host country rules in effect).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 11:37 AM

2020-09-01T11:37:13-04:00

Your PSG is well within their authority. I was at AJ last year and I'm not sure about other bases there but there's clear signs on the barracks saying females aren't allowed in male barracks and vice versa. Mainly due to the SHARP incidents. While they may have not been doing anything sexual, your PSG has put out guidance. Your PL would or should tap the PSG if they crossed the line. Based off my reading, your PSG might seemingly be extreme but it's not illegal, immoral, or unethical.

Response by MSG John Joseph made Sep 1 at 2020 11:38 AM

2020-09-01T11:38:46-04:00

My advice is ETS and find a job where you set your own rules and boundaries. I'm sure your Plt Sgt
would rather deal with bigger issues on a deployment to the middle east than soldiers crying about a curfew and vaping policy. It's nice to see current NCO's enforce good order and discipline.

Response by CW2 Christopher Esparza made Sep 1 at 2020 11:39 AM

2020-09-01T11:39:18-04:00

You know what I would do, strike.

Response by SFC(P) John McLaughlin made Sep 1 at 2020 11:45 AM

2020-09-01T11:45:00-04:00

First of all, had you attempted to have a sitdown with the PSG? What about your squad leaders? Have you had conversation with them about this?

Response by CSM Carlson C. made Sep 1 at 2020 11:47 AM

2020-09-01T11:47:11-04:00

I would assume that some external event transpired for these things to happen. While my unit was in Kuwait, there were multiple sexual assaults. The response ended up being that regardless of rank you had to have a battle buddy when you walked at night, this was enforced on all the camps for a short period. That I can understand. Regarding the e-cigs... That goes along the lines of dip and other tobacco products. The Army sent out messages last year warning about lung-related illnesses associated with e-cigs: https://www.army.mil/article/226973/ The Exchange has pulled e-cigs from its shelves: https://www.stripes.com/news/like-aafes-shops-navy-exchange-concessionaires-will-stop-selling-vape-products-oct-1-1.600385

Now, with all that said, I think that you should have an open dialog with your PLT SGT. I can't tell you exactly what their rationale for implementing this, but if it is health-related and your chain of command is implementing something then they are trying to maintain your health and welfare and are well within their right. Now if she is refused to convey why, that may not be the best way, but I doubt the IG will be your best bet to resolve this issue. It is definitely your right, but I would suggest attempting to resolve it at the lowest level. Request a conversation with your 1SG with their open-door policy if your PLT SGT is not willing to converse.

If you are not supposed to have the opposite sex in the bay, then that is the rule, has nothing to do with what they are actually doing or not doing. You know what you're not supposed to do. I would love to know you PLT SGT's rationale because I and the rest of the seniors who have responded to you have been in the military long enough to know that there is more to the story than you have conveyed for things like this to transpire.

Army issues public health alert after multiple severe lung illness cases associated with vaping

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Sep 1 at 2020 11:54 AM

2020-09-01T11:54:04-04:00

By all means, go to the IG. When they tell you there is nothing there, don't accept that and talk to your Congressman.

NEWSFLASH: THE MILITARY LIFE IS TOUGH AND HAS RULES. YOU ARE NO LONGER A CIVILIAN.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 12:09 PM

2020-09-01T12:09:14-04:00

What a world we live in today where a junior enlisted Soldier, can use his phone while in a forward deployed location to complain to the world about moral, ethical and legal directives given out by his platoon Sergeant.

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Sep 1 at 2020 12:17 PM

2020-09-01T12:17:35-04:00

Yes. I know you're frustrated with the situation but just know that it can get worse. Don't antagonize your PSG. Maybe she'll lighten up a bit as time goes by.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 12:43 PM

2020-09-01T12:43:04-04:00

Wow. Is that all in one breath?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 1:09 PM

2020-09-01T13:09:28-04:00

Your PSG can’t give you a legal order not to use tobacco products or vape. That’s why they didn’t give you a copy of the order because enlisted are not authorized to give legal orders.
Everything else is within the grounds of your PSG working within the commanders guidance in order to maintain good order and discipline

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 1:50 PM

2020-09-01T13:50:18-04:00

You sound pretty upset, but I think you'll live due to the fact there truly nothing wrong being done to you by NCO

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 2:00 PM

2020-09-01T14:00:43-04:00

I know it's now frowned upon but back in my enlisted days, if a platoon member was screwing the pooch and getting the rest of the platoon put under restriction said platoon member would be taken out back and administered "corrective training" by his platoon mates.

Response by SPC Salvatore LaMarca made Sep 1 at 2020 2:04 PM

2020-09-01T14:04:22-04:00

Me being the dumb grunt I am I think while in country you have not to much to say about anything, but go see the IG it is your right.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 2:11 PM

2020-09-01T14:11:09-04:00

The only issue I see here is if she gave you a written counseling but refused to provide you a copy that’s...concerning. Otherwise, this is how it works.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 2:19 PM

2020-09-01T14:19:33-04:00

So someone OD'd on drugs, and gender mixing in the barracks was violated?????? and the Platoon SGT is trying to cover her rear end................ I'm surprised this isn't being directed from above here. So what's going to happen is things can continue on elsewhere and soldiers with rank on their shoulders will have to act, they might look at what is going right and see your Platoon SGT's actions, and simply follow that example.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Sep 1 at 2020 2:24 PM

2020-09-01T14:24:03-04:00

Recommend you use the chain of command before going to IG. It probably will have a greater chance of success. Use your unit's first sergeant's open-door policy to make an appointment to talk about the problem. Be sure to document all the things you put in you post. Bring copies of text messages or e-mails setting out the policies you describe. It may be that your PS is overreacting to problems in the unit, on the other hand the PS may be acting on directives from above. You're in a foreign country and Kuwait places restrictions on US military units.

Meaningless meetings are a hallmark of my military experience. In my 22 years active duty and 6 years as a DAC, I went to hundreds of useless briefings, training sessions, and meetings. Sometimes they were required by higher headquarters, others were traditional meetings or briefings we thought we had to have, and some were just poorly conceived and executed events. As a Spec 4 you might want to educate yourself on how to run productive meetings. If you make E-5, or are otherwise put into a supervisory position, being able to run a good meeting is a priceless skill. A quick Google search will yield training courses and books on effective meetings.

Response by SPC Andrew Murray made Sep 1 at 2020 2:55 PM

2020-09-01T14:55:12-04:00

Skip the IG go straight to the first one star in your chain if you want fast results.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2020 3:01 PM

2020-09-01T15:01:59-04:00

One question: Do these restrictions apply to the entire unit or just your platoon? No gender mixing is standard policy so that one is a no brainer. The vaping ban, IMHO, is ridiculous. it's like telling you what you can or cannot eat from the DFAC. 2300 curfew is perfectly reasonable. Being escorted anywhere after midnight by an NCO is iffy and I'd be pissed if I was the NCO who got stuck with that duty. and formations in a forward area are bad tactics. Just my 2 cents as a former PSG, PL, and CO.

Response by SSgt Ray Stone made Sep 1 at 2020 7:35 PM

2020-09-01T19:35:25-04:00

I feel sorry for you brotha..that's all I'm going to say cause others have said what needs to be said

Response by SSG Brian G. made Sep 1 at 2020 10:56 PM

2020-09-01T22:56:26-04:00

Wow. Just... wow. Ok, first off, step back and breath. Second, check yourself. You are in the Army not in college where you can do what you want, when you want, how you want and not have it bite you.

Your Platoon Sergeant, while doing some questionable things ie the formations every two hours, is well within her authority. She is maintaining good order and discipline given what you have provided and you are literally on a public forum whining about it.

Curfew is due to SM's co-mingling and likely other instances that were not provided here. Vaping ban is due to a health and safety concern due to a SM smoking something which degraded the unit readiness and mission capability. And it actually falls under the DoD policy that bans smoking and Tobacco use in and around all US facilities and yes that includes Forward Deployed areas.

Short answer is yes she can do all that and a whole lot more.

Sure, go ahead and go to the IG with your complaint. Whoever accepts it will look at it, look at you, stifle a snicker and circular file it and then remember your face because they know you will be back. Then you become "water cooler" talk as a .... "no shit this Spec-4 came in and made a complaint about.... wait for it...."

Response by SGT Eric Davis made Sep 2 at 2020 12:17 PM

2020-09-02T12:17:55-04:00

I had to stop reading when you asked about a curfew! How about to go IG and see what they say lol!

Response by SFC Aubrey Campbell made Sep 2 at 2020 7:38 PM

2020-09-02T19:38:02-04:00

It’s a deployment SPC. Your PSG is your mommy!

Response by SGT William Tate made Sep 2 at 2020 9:51 PM

2020-09-02T21:51:44-04:00

Lmao, this made me laugh. Get the sand out and carry on. You’ve got it easy trust me lol! Relax and focus on the mission everything else is noise.

Response by 1st Lt Padre Dave Poedel made Sep 3 at 2020 12:26 AM

2020-09-03T00:26:13-04:00

You just gotta love it! Next it will be “why didn’t they take us to a place with nice beaches and barenaked ladies serving us drinks that were free.....”

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Sep 3 at 2020 1:33 PM

2020-09-03T13:33:30-04:00

Sadly, regardless of if you are correct or not, we know Army leaders only face accountibility when it causes political problems. It is far better to work to attach their stupid decisions and actions to their google results so that it follows them after they take off the uniform and hopefully has some negative impact.

Response by CW4 Scott Hyde made Sep 4 at 2020 4:09 AM

2020-09-04T04:09:16-04:00

This just sounds awful. You should go to your PSGT and work things out.

Good write up.

Response by SGT Stephen Perry made Oct 5 at 2020 6:49 PM

2020-10-05T18:49:53-04:00

If you do decide to go to IG do so knowing that is at your own peril. Do what your rank can handle...This is not a fight you can win.

Response by MSgt Allen Chandler made Oct 11 at 2020 9:45 PM

2020-10-11T21:45:39-04:00

You're in Kuwait And someone's trying to keep you safe. You're in KuwaitAnd somebody did something really dumb in another unit And now your leaders are telling you guys to be careful. I just don't see where your problem is. As I remember approving your Barricks was always a bitch. We all knew it and we live with it.

Response by SSG James Stodola made Oct 12 at 2020 10:19 AM

2020-10-12T10:19:36-04:00

Well first of all from what I am reading, it sounds like you and maybe some others need to realize you are in the real world now, and need to grow up and stop acting like a child. There is nothing illegal about what is going on, you have orders to follow every single day about something, the fact that you don't like those orders is irrelevant. You are in the Military, you follow orders like them or not, or you get out. It also sounds like you got someone in your midst that needs to be hauled out to have a chat with the MP's regarding this "substance" that was placed into the vape pen. Regarding the female in the male bay, is this an allowed policy or is it forbidden period, that's something that needs to be more clear, again it is something that can be regulated by the command structure. Yes curfews can be set, especially in your location where dangers to American military personnel are much higher. You are not "Back on the block" as it were so you cannot simply do as you wish without expecting repercussions. If you wish to pursue this you have that right, it will of course not come out as you think it will so you might not want to waste your time on this and just learn to follow orders.

Response by Cpl Craig Franklin made Oct 30 at 2020 10:39 AM

2020-10-30T10:39:02-04:00

Both in the service and in the civilian world you will have bosses that you may not agree with, but you have to learn how to deal with them nonetheless. I would strongly caution you about going over your immediate boss's head, though, because you may wind up worse off than you believe you are now. Remove your wants and emotions from the situation, study the rules, then ask yourself honestly... are any rules being broken? If the answer is no, then you are just going to have to learn how to adapt to your situation.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Nov 9 at 2020 1:51 AM

2020-11-09T01:51:04-05:00

Are you in the Army? If yes, then the answer is yes!

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Nov 9 at 2020 4:02 AM

2020-11-09T04:02:46-05:00

I think you are missing the point. Your first line leader is responsible for you and is accountable for your actions. My advice is to suck it up and prepare to go to the promotion board. Once you are placed in a position of responsibility and become accountable for others, then you can complain all you want about it. Until then, you are indeed accountable for your time and your NCO has the absolute right to control nearly every aspect of your day. This is the military, not scouting. Besides, nobody wants to follow a complainer. Secondarily, nobody wants to promote a complainer either. If you suck it up and just so what you are told to do, and prepare for the next level of responsibility, you will generally prosper.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Nov 9 at 2020 7:05 PM

2020-11-09T19:05:38-05:00

I read this run on sentence again. I'm questioning the judgement of whomever approved your advancement to E4. Understand no one person matters more than the mission. Go read the NCO creed and you'll see that. The best advice I can give is to say the only thing that you should say is Roger sarge. To be frank, whenever one of my joes complained about platoon business outside of the platoon there was he'll to pay and I was the banker. Really the best thing you can do is put your mind on the mission and ignore your own comfort. Be the example of dedication and loyalty. Until you can sustain that you won't be ready to be an NCO. Mission first. Always.

Response by CPL Scott Young made Nov 10 at 2020 2:47 PM

2020-11-10T14:47:22-05:00

Suck it up cupcake. When you signed that contract you became property of the military. They can order you to sleep outside. If it isn't illegal, unmoral, or unethical, do it. This generation of troops askinng "WHY" is not cutting it. Ruck up and Charlie Mike.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Jan 5 at 2021 5:59 PM

2021-01-05T17:59:04-05:00

I may be wrong, however, I believe "...you're in the Army now..." If you need "baby sat" the CO can implement a "curfew", etc.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Jan 11 at 2021 12:05 PM

2021-01-11T12:05:30-05:00

Yes he most certainly can. Vaping is a known health risk, and as such it can be regulated by the command. The curfew, like wise, is designed to keep you form losing your head, literally.

Response by SPC Earl Semler made Jan 21 at 2021 8:01 PM

2021-01-21T20:01:16-05:00

Suck it up buttercup. There is nothing wrong with her orders. She is trying to protect the platoon she responsible for, If you think she has given an unlawful order find the AR covering that order an talk it over with her. Remember if the order doesn't endanger anyone's life you follow it, and talk it over with her. If she doesn't think the AR isn't for her order you two can take it to the platoon leader, then to the CO. Don't get the IG involved that will cause problems for the Lt, the Sgt, the CO, and the platoon as a whole. Follow your chain of command. You should have learned that in basic training.

Response by Jacob McMillow made Nov 16 at 2023 10:20 AM

2023-11-16T10:20:41-05:00

Man, that sounds like a tough situation you and your platoon are dealing with in Kuwait. It's frustrating when leadership goes overboard with rules and restrictions. As for your platoon sergeant's actions, it's essential to know your rights and what's allowed under military regulations.
I've heard that also E-Cigarettes like these ones https://e-zigaretteria.ch/ might be banned.
If you're uncertain about the legality of these restrictions, it might be a good idea to consult with the IG or another appropriate authority to get clarification on the situation.