Can my rater lie about the number of soldiers that he/she rates in my NCOER?

2020-01-13T12:25:36-05:00

Good Afternoon, I’m inquiring about the NCOER process. I was on ADOS with my Battalion S1 for a year & 7 months. My rater who is an E7 was not honest about the number of soldiers that she currently rates. She stated that she currently rates 4 NCOs. However, I am the only NCO that she rates. This information is also reflected on the BN rating scheme. Also, in the overall performance section she first stated “4 out of 4 NCOs that I served with in my 12 years in the Army”. Then a month later she unsigned the NCOER, after it was kick back, & she changed it to “3 out of 4 NCOs that I over seen in my 12 years of service with the Army”. When I asked her about it she didn’t respond so I reached out to the Senior rater. She was upset that I mentioned her grammar mistakes to the senior rater then added a second comment to my Overall performance section “needs to develop professional environment maturity”. She also only had one bullet in the presence section. She was asked to remove some inaccurate comments by the command and never added new comments to the presence section. She recently closed out my NCOER without my signature and stated “refused to sign”. However, I was never asked to review the final copy. I did not refuse the NCOER because I was never informed it was complete. The NCOER still has some grammar mistakes (Over seen should be one word & “professional environment maturity“ doesn’t make sense together) so it will be kicked back. My question is: Can my rater just lie about the number of soldiers that she currently rates? Can she change the context to over seen if she only served with other NCOs? Can my rater close out my NCOER without me viewing the final draft? The NCOER was due in September.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2020 12:28 PM

2020-01-13T12:28:22-05:00

I would go straight to my 1Sg's office and scoop him up on my way to see the CSM.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2020 12:39 PM

2020-01-13T12:39:37-05:00

Ooooh....someone gonna be in trouble....and that person ain't gonna be you. But I am curious. What did the Senior Rater say about all of this?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2020 12:57 PM

2020-01-13T12:57:03-05:00

Your rater can, yes. But there are supposed to be checks and balances to prevent that from happening. If the NCOER is submitted already I would suggest appealing the NCOER and bringing this all to your CSM and then IG if that doesn't fix it.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jan 13 at 2020 12:58 PM

2020-01-13T12:58:33-05:00

L.D.R.S.H.I.P.

So how's that Army value of Integrity treatin' ya these days?

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jan 13 at 2020 2:32 PM

2020-01-13T14:32:01-05:00

An NCOER is an official document. Therefore, no, NO ONE can lie on it. However "4 of 4 in 12 years" is different than "4 of 4 currently." Just becaise your rater does not CURRENTLY rate 4 NCOs, does not mean that thos is a lie.

Make sure you know "what the facts is" before you go and make an official accusation against that NCO's integrity. Especially since that is your boss. Things go south real quick in these situations.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2020 2:47 PM

2020-01-13T14:47:46-05:00

"4 of 4"
Did you kill her dog?

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Jan 13 at 2020 3:50 PM

2020-01-13T15:50:13-05:00

Look at AR and DA Pam 623-3, they go into painful detail about who does what and what can be done by whom. They also cover the appeals process for perceived unfair or unjust ratings. Since this is going on in an S-1 shop grab your senior rater, 1 SG and head over and see the CSM. I know I'd be interested if my S-1 NCO was playing fast and loose with facts and figures.

Personally I'd stick to the inflated number of NCOs rated and falsified "refused to sign" statements as those are actual quantifiable things that are not based on any subjective standard and are either correct or incorrect. It appears the X /X rating is supposed to be based on currently rated NCOs of the same grade. They also are good things to remember when you write your appeal to the NCOER should the discrepancies not be addressed.
The way I read the reg there must be at least one bullet comment for each rated area so as long as there is a bullet there it meets the minimum standard....
b. Bullet comments. Bullet comments are mandatory regardless of the box check rating given (at least one bullet will be entered in each block of c through i). Standardized rules apply to bullet comments on NCOER. Bullet comments will— (1) Be short, concise, to the point. Bullets will not be longer than two lines, preferably one, and no more than one bullet to a line.

As far as the rater having jacked up spelling, grammar or syntax; I'd leave that out when discussing the situation with the CSM, as it makes it look like you're whining and the apparent lack of integrity far out ways the grammatic errors . Also the Sergeants Major sitting on the board are more concerned with the quantifiable actions and events cited in the NCOER bullets then they are with the exemplary grammar used by the raters.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2020 4:45 PM

2020-01-13T16:45:25-05:00

I am in the similar situation. My rater disregarded my support form and downgraded my work. I volunteered for an additional duty and spent significant time during my civ work and at home. As reserve TPUs, we do monthly drill and AT which are the minimum requirement and get to barely engage with duties in unit and that's why I volunteered. However, despite of my personal 20+ hour for this additional duty and 98 EBDL courses I took online, all my criterias on my eval met the standard. Also, my initial counseling date is wrong - it is read as 2 Oct but I was not with that unit till 19 Oct. For over 2 months now, she doesn't respond to my email, text, phone calls and never made corrections. After a few years as an NCO, I learned the evaluation is nothing but just a garbage as it is only shows who's buddy buddy with the rater. At least, in the reserve units, this happens all the time.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 13 at 2020 6:42 PM

2020-01-13T18:42:55-05:00

Unfortunately she is trying to hurt you. This sounds malicious. Fight for what is right!

Response by SFC Sean Stokes made Jan 13 at 2020 7:33 PM

2020-01-13T19:33:54-05:00

If I were you, I would inform my NCO Support Channel that if that NCOER isn’t removed from my record then I’m going to have to initiate an appeal. CSM’s and 1SG’s as well as Raters and Senior Raters typically do not want to deal with ER appeals. Check the regs on the NCOER and reaference the appeals process. It’s not too hard to do, especially since you weren’t provided the opportunity to sign the ER. In the future if you don’t receive quarterly counseling from your Rater on the quarterly check list, then do it yourself to keep track of the things that you have done during your rated period.....and when you have a dispute over your ER with your rater inform the senior rater and show them your NCOER checklist while requesting they compare that to the checklist the rater was supposed to keep during the rated period according to the regulation, and if the rater fails to produce their checklist it’s usually problem solved.

Response by 1SG Mitchell Smith made May 9 at 2021 4:05 PM

2021-05-09T16:05:14-04:00

If you're quarterly counseling doesn't reflect ANY of the issues. Use the 1SG/CSM open door policy to address all stated above. Don't settle for this NCOER being sent forward it will eventually bite you in upcoming promotions.

Sounds to me this NCOER has become personal and not professional.

Good luck.