Can NCO make you run in place entire PT time with permanent profile?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 08:12:15 -0400

So this is not my story, but I saw this happening today.

During PT, one of the soldier had Permanent Profile for his leg.
It's written that "Own pace and distance running".
During a run day, one of the NCO made him run in the place for the entire PT.
He said to him that its "Own pace and Distance, you are not going anywhere but just running in place so it's fine."
That soldier got angry and said "There is so much other things I can do during the PT to workout" either way the soldier still did it. Later on, he used open door policy to talk to 1st sgt about it.
However on the next run day for PT, the NCO made him do it again and the soldier was very angry about it. the NCO also stated that, "Unless I hear directly from anyone higher than me saying I can't make you run in place, I won't stop doing it".
So the soldier got really angry and walked away from that NCO.
The NCO said he is going to counsel him for disobeying his orders and walking away while his talking. Possibly recommend UCMJ against that soldier.

I see both soldier and NCO is not having a good camaraderie and I think they both have approached the situation badly.
What are your thoughts about this issue??

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Aug 25 at 2021 8:19 AM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 08:19:56 -0400

I'd be interested in knowing what the 1SG said... and walking away in this case is not the right answer.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Aug 25 at 2021 9:29 AM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 09:29:45 -0400

LTC Kevin B. Can you boot this Gen ereDFEe Cosmos guy?

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Aug 25 at 2021 10:15 AM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:15:01 -0400

I am not going to say the NCO was correct or not, there are better ways to do this then what appears to be out right screwing with someone. Own pace and distance, I would of run in place for 10 seconds said my leg hurts and been done. Want to be a smart ass two can play that.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2021 10:32 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:32:59 -0400

The Soldier walking away in anger....wrong response. That's all I will say on that.

As for the other part....If making a Soldier run in place does not violate the profile, then there is no harm. Personally, I would see it as a dick move and then have a side bar with this NCO. Now, if it were me with this profile and the NCO wants to play stupid games like this, I would run in place for about a minute then stop as I would be keeping in the parameters of the Own Pace and Distance. Granted, it would be seen as petty, but so is making a Soldier run in place for an entire PRT session.

Any idea what 1SG said to the Soldier?

Response by Maj John Bell made Aug 25 at 2021 12:12 PM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 12:12:07 -0400

I think the soldier needs to see the physician who issued the profile. Doctors don't take it very well when leadership pisses on their chits.

I've a story to tell about a field grade who ordered a company grade officer to take a PFT the day after outpatient surgery, but it's too long. Just suffice it to say, the doctor made a piece of bad paper stick to the field grade's personnel file.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2021 12:22 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 12:22:06 -0400

Yes - the NCO can tell someone on own pace and distance profile to run in place for all of PT. The soldier could then run in place, stop and start again since it's their own pace and distance.

Since the soldier already talked to 1SG, not sure what came of that, but they probably should go back and say the behavior hasn't stopped.

The soldier shouldn't have walked away - but I understand why they did. But the counseling will be the correct thing to do.

My opinion - the NCO sounds like a petty prick based on this story. Someone needs to have a talk with them, probably 1SG.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 25 at 2021 2:50 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:50:53 -0400

The Solider shouldn't have walked away because that just aggravates the situation. The Solider needs to re-engage with the 1st Sgt. It also depends on what the 1st Sgt's take was. If the Solider can't job in place or run at their own pace they need to engage with their primary medical provider and revise the profile to reflect what he can do.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2021 5:24 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Aug 2021 17:24:28 -0400

Walking away is going to hurt him in this situation, though I understand why he did it. Better to walk away than punch a jackass who outranks you in the jaw. Which I have also seen, and that goes way worse. As a side note, all parties involved even the 1SG thought it was a good hit even if inappropriate.

Quite frankly, I've seen 1SG's and CSM's destroy NCO's who have played games with profiles. I know of one that ended up on twice a week runs with the CSM and the BC would join them sometimes and those guys were like track stars. The NCO in question ended up doing some public moaning about it after the second week much to his chagrin.

So I am curious as to how Top is going to handle it. Your friend should probably write out a thought out explanation as to why he walked away, what his concerns are, and to request an address of the NCO playing games with his profile instead of working with the Soldier to build an actual PT plan that benefits fitness and recovery.

Sometimes people with rank are a pain, curse of the meritocracy we live in.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 26 at 2022 5:53 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Sat, 26 Mar 2022 17:53:52 -0400

Not your lane stay out of it you are not in high school

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 26 at 2022 6:07 PM

LTC Ray Buenteo — Sat, 26 Mar 2022 18:07:15 -0400

NCO business till it reaches my level. But if it reaches my level 1. Soldier disrespectful to NCO walking away and refusing order. That soldier will answer for that. 1sg handle that shit. 2. If the NCO was not violating the profile then not my business 1sg handle that shit. If it did violate the profile 1sg handle that shit. No one says you have to like a damn thing in the army and you can get angry if you want but you follow orders of those officers appointed over you and yes NCOs are officers just not commissioned. You dont know why this NCO decided to have this soldier run in place. Whether it was a sick move or not that NCO made the decision and owns it.