Can one claim "Veteran of the Vietnam War" status merely for wearing the uniform in Germany during the war?

2018-08-05T12:55:54-04:00

I recently read an anti-gun editorial that argued the 2nd Amend. was passed to arm slavers hunting runaway slaves, and that the NRA was advancing racism/slavery. Now, I've read many editorials making similar inflammatory claims, and that is their right. But that is not the reason for my post. Curious about the credibility of the author, I noticed that he was a self-described "Veteran of the Vietnam war." However, googling him I read his bio for a local veterans' memorial that stated that he served as an artilleryman from 1970-1972 only in Germany--no mention of Vietnam. Having never served IN a war, I have served DURING wars, including Beirut, Granada and Panama. I have never claimed to be a "Veteran of Beirut" or otherwise. My question is, what are your thoughts on claiming "veteran of ___ war" status merely for putting on the uniform during that conflict? If I meet someone and they say "I'm a veteran of OIF" or "OEF", can I assume that they were involved in that conflict more than merely wearing the uniform in some unrelated geographic area? Of course I understand there are grey areas, such as airmen/sailors servicing and supporting aircraft headed to the combat zone, and other direct support positions. Or even drone operators stationed in Nevada. My question to Vietnam Vets (those who actually served in country) in particular, do you consider this a "stolen valor" situation?

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Aug 5 at 2018 12:57 PM

2018-08-05T12:57:27-04:00

They'd be a "Vietnam-war Veteran" not a Vietnam Veteran. And its shady if they present themselves as a Vietnam vet having never stepped foot in country or the waters around it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2018 1:03 PM

2018-08-05T13:03:09-04:00

The correct term is Vietnam War era veteran.

Response by CPT George Ruzicka made Aug 5 at 2018 1:18 PM

2018-08-05T13:18:48-04:00

Vietnam era vet. Whenever I see a vet with a Vietnam veteran hat on I always ask what unit, MOS, when & where. A fair number of phony's found doing this but met many brothers as well.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Aug 5 at 2018 1:31 PM

2018-08-05T13:31:33-04:00

I don't know about some, but I do not really care what others wish to call themselves. Those of us that were there know it, and will never forget it. Those that were not, won't. Pretty plain and simple.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Aug 5 at 2018 1:32 PM

2018-08-05T13:32:46-04:00

Personally I’d say no. But the current conflict has changed how I have seen ‘vet’ status thrown around. I’ve met officers and NCOs who never officially deployed with any unit come back with combat patches and orders awarding them the campaign medals. All these folks did was go TDY to Kuwait, then make the leap into Iraq or the Stan. A day or so later, they’re back in Kuwait on the way home. Are they ‘war’ vets?
In both instances I’d say no, but that’s personal bias vs factual truth. Correct me, but 24hrs in a combat zone gets you everything a troop would get in a year, and if your TDY is over 30 days, you can file for fam sep.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Aug 5 at 2018 1:39 PM

2018-08-05T13:39:39-04:00

He may have served during that period, but it doesn't make him a Vietnam vet.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Aug 5 at 2018 2:48 PM

2018-08-05T14:48:55-04:00

They can claim Vietnam Era Veteran because someonew in either the government or media coined the term. I do not like the term "era" because it is misleading. You are either a War Veteran or simply a veteran. Anyone ever hear the term of a WWII Era Veteran? Hell no! That dog don't hunt. I'll talk with any veteran until they use "era" and then I am done talking and walk away.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 5 at 2018 2:54 PM

2018-08-05T14:54:19-04:00

If that is the case, I was a Desert Storm, Bosnia, Panama, Iraqi WarX2, and Afghanistan veteran.

Response by CW5 John M. made Aug 5 at 2018 3:30 PM

2018-08-05T15:30:53-04:00

There has been a lot of confusion about the difference between Vietnam ERA vets and "Vietnam vets". Both have overlapping time periods anchored by specific dates. The ERA vet qualified for the NDSM, and the Vietnam vet qualified for the Vietnam Service medal, or VSM. Every servicemember who qualified for the VSM also qualified for the NDSM....... but it doesn't hold true the other way around. I have written more extensively on the subject elsewhere in RP.

The following was taken from Google:
Vietnam era (February 28, 1961 – May 7, 1975 for Veterans who served in the Republic of Vietnam during that period; otherwise August 5, 1964 – May 7, 1975)
Eligible Wartime Periods - Pension - Veterans Benefits Administration

My dad was in the Army until he retired on Dec 31, 1969. He never went to Vietnam, but was a Vietnam ERA vet. He was also a WWII and Korean war vet, and he was a cold war vet. The first NDSM was for the 27 Jun '50 to 27 Jul '54 (the Korean war period). That was his first award. He got his second NDSM for the Vietnam period 28 Feb 61 until his retirement. He never claimed to be a Vietnam Veteran, and he never received a VSM.....
I had a brother who served from Sep '67 until 1973. He never left the States, but he was a Vietnam ERA vet who qualified for the NDSM during the Vietnam ERA. He never claimed to be vietnam vet.
I had another brother who served from 1969 through 1975 and beyond, who went on overseas assignment to Germany for three years. He qualified for the NDSM (Vietnam ERA) without ever going to Vietnam. I had a sister who served in the USAF during the Vietnam ERA who qualified for the NDSM as well. Neither my dad or any of my siblings ever claimed to be Vietnam veterans, even though they qualified for the NDSM during the vietnam ERA. All of them could be considered "Cold War veterans" and Vietnam ERA vetrans, however. None of them ever qualified for the VSM.

Vietnam vets were those who received the VSM - which was awarded those who met the criteria, ie, the proper time frame and locations of service in Vietnam's designated geographical area. Period. It just so happens that the "bonified Vietnam vet (who was awarded the VSM) - ALSO was a Vietnam ERA vet who was also awarded the NDSM during its prescribed period during the Vietnam ERA. Even my sister was confused about this a year ago - because time and "legend" have their ways of affecting memories.....

Response by SPC James Neidig made Aug 5 at 2018 3:34 PM

2018-08-05T15:34:08-04:00

My VA paperwork says i am a Gulf War era and a GWOT Vet even though I was med sep AUG 2001 but was on termanal leave Sep 11 they mailed me GWOT service medal my discharge date in Sep 25 2001 / I do not call my self a combat Vet EVER

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2018 4:37 PM

2018-08-05T16:37:50-04:00

Sgt Mathew Meyer Absolutely not, and he knows that. He is a Vietnam era veteran, and to state otherwise is a bald faced lie. I served in Vietnam, so I am a Vietnam Veteran.

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Aug 5 at 2018 5:04 PM

2018-08-05T17:04:11-04:00

I'm reminded of my first visit to the wall in 1983. Couple of guys sitting on the grass, one in tiger stripes with a rucksack. Says to the other, very loudly "wasn't that the day the gooks hit us with rockets ?" I laughed til I cried.

Response by Sgt Arthur Caesar made Aug 5 at 2018 5:13 PM

2018-08-05T17:13:43-04:00

A vet, is a Vet, is a Vet! If you took the oath, you were on stand by to go wherever you were sent. I never served in Nam, all my buddies in the Nam vets tell me I was lucky, I agree. Guess you could say I am a Vietnam era Vet, 4 years, Navy Seabees, 6 years U S Marines. Proud to say I served!

Response by SFC Carlos Cruz made Aug 5 at 2018 7:05 PM

2018-08-05T19:05:24-04:00

The National Rifle Association of America (NRA) is an American nonprofit organization that advocates for gun rights. Founded in 1871, the group has informed its members about firearm-related legislation since 1934, and it has directly lobbied for and against firearms legislation since 1975.

National Rifle Association of America
National Rifle Association official logo.svg
Founded
November 16, 1871; 146 years ago
Founder
William Conant Church
George Wood Wingate

Focus
Gun politics
Gun rights
Location
Fairfax, Virginia, US
Area served
United States,
Services
Membership organization
Magazine publisher
Education/certification
Method
Lobbying
Publications
Outreach programs
Members
Increase 6 million (self-reported, as of 2018)
Key people
Oliver North (President)
Wayne LaPierre (Executive Vice President)
Chris W. Cox (chief lobbyist)
Dana Loesch (national spokesperson)
Subsidiaries
NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund
NRA Foundation
NRA Special Contribution Fund
NRA Freedom Action Foundation
NRA Institute for Legislative Action
NRA Political Victory Fund
Revenue
$433.9 million (2016)
Expenses
$475.9 million (2016)
Website
NRA.org
Seal of the National Rifle Association
Founded to advance rifle marksmanship, the modern NRA continues to teach firearm safety and competency. The organization also publishes several magazines and sponsors competitive marksmanship events. According to the NRA, it has 6 million members as of May 2018.
Observers and lawmakers see the NRA as one of the top three most influential lobbying groups in Washington, DC The NRA Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA) is its lobbying arm, which manages its political action committee (PAC), the Political Victory Fund (PVF). Over its history the organization has influenced legislation, participated in or initiated lawsuits, and endorsed or opposed various candidates at local, state and federal levels.
The NRA has been criticized by gun control and gun rights advocacy groups, political commentators, and politicians. The organization has been the focus of intense criticism in the aftermath of high profile shootings, such as the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting and the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting.
History
Early history
William Conant Church, one of the NRA's founders
A few months after the Civil War started in 1861, a national rifle association was proposed by Americans in England. In a letter that was sent to President Lincoln and appeared in the New York Times, R.G. Moulton and R.B. Perry recommended forming an organization similar to the British National Rifle Association, which had formed a year and a half earlier. They suggested making a shooting range, perhaps on the base on Staten Island, and were offering Whitworth rifles for prizes for the first shooting competition with those rifles. They suggested a provisional committee to start the Association which would include: President Lincoln, Secretary of War, officers, and other prominent New Yorkers.
The National Rifle Association was first chartered in the State of New York on November 16, 1871, by Army and Navy Journal editor William Conant Church and Captain George Wood Wingate. On November 25, 1871, the group voted to elect its first corporate officers. Union Army Civil War General Ambrose Burnside, who had worked as a Rhode Island gunsmith, was elected president.[16] When Burnside resigned on August 1, 1872, Church succeeded him as president.

Union Army records for the Civil War indicate that its troops fired about 1,000 rifle shots for each Confederate hit, causing General Burnside to lament his recruits: "Out of ten soldiers who are perfect in drill and the manual of arms, only one knows the purpose of the sights on his gun or can hit the broad side of a barn." The generals attributed this to the use of volley tactics, devised for earlier, less accurate smoothbore muskets.

Ambrose Burnside, Union Army general, Governor of Rhode Island, and first president of the NRA
Recognizing a need for better training, Wingate sent emissaries to Canada, the United Kingdom, and Germany to observe militia and armies' marksmanship training programs. With plans provided by Wingate, the New York Legislature funded the construction of a modern range at Creedmoor, Long Island, for long-range shooting competitions. The range officially opened on June 21, 1873. The Central Railroad of Long Island established a railway station nearby, with trains running from Hunter's Point, with connecting boat service to 34th Street and the East River, allowing access from New York City.
After beating England and Scotland to win the Elcho Shield in 1873 at Wimbledon, then a village outside London, the Irish Rifle Team issued a challenge through the New York Herald to riflemen of the United States to raise a team for a long-range match to determine an Anglo-American championship. The NRA organized a team through a subsidiary amateur rifle club. Remington Arms and Sharps Rifle Manufacturing Company produced breech-loading weapons for the team. Although muzzle-loading rifles had long been considered more accurate, eight American riflemen won the match firing breech-loading rifles. Publicity of the event generated by the New York Herald helped to establish breech-loading firearms as suitable for military marksmanship training, and promoted the NRA to national prominence.

Rifle clubs

Ulysses S. Grant served as President of the NRA from 1883 (ten years after he left office) to 1884
The NRA organized rifle clubs in other states, and many state National Guard organizations sought NRA advice to improve members' marksmanship. Wingate's markmanship manual evolved into the United States Army marksmanship instruction program. Former President Ulysses S. Grant served as the NRA's eighth president and General Philip H. Sheridan as its ninth. The US Congress created the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice in 1901 to include representatives from the NRA, National Guard, and United States military services. A program of annual rifle and pistol competitions was authorized, and included a national match open to military and civilian shooters. In 1907, NRA headquarters moved to Washington, DC to facilitate the organization's advocacy efforts. Springfield Armory and Rock Island Arsenal began the manufacture of M1903 Springfield rifles for civilian members of the NRA in 1910. The Director of Civilian Marksmanship began manufacture of M1911 pistols for NRA members in August 1912. Until 1927, the United States Department of War provided free ammunition and targets to civilian rifle clubs with a minimum membership of ten United States citizens at least 16 years of age.

1934–present
The NRA formed its Legislative Affairs Division to update members with facts and analysis of upcoming bills, after the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 became the first federal gun-control law passed in the US. Karl Frederick, NRA President in 1934, during congressional NFA hearings testified "I have never believed in the general practice of carrying weapons. I seldom carry one. ... I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses."Four years later, the NRA backed the Federal Firearms Act of 1938.

The NRA supported the NFA along with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), which together created a system to federally license gun dealers and established restrictions on particular categories and classes of firearms. The organization opposed a national firearms registry, an initiative favored by then-President Lyndon Johnson.
Until the middle 1970s, the NRA mainly focused on sportsmen, hunters and target shooters, and downplayed gun control issues. However, passage of the GCA galvanized a growing number of NRA gun rights activists, including Harlon Carter. In 1975, it began to focus more on politics and established its lobbying arm, the Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA), with Carter as director. The next year, its political action committee (PAC), the Political Victory Fund, was created in time for the 1976 elections. The 1977 annual convention was a defining moment for the organization and came to be known as "The Cincinnati Revolution". Leadership planned to relocate NRA headquarters to Colorado and to build a $30 million recreational facility in New Mexico, but activists within the organization whose central concern was Second Amendment rights defeated the incumbents and elected Carter as executive director and Neal Knox as head of the NRA-ILA. Insurgents including Harlon and Knox had demanded new leadership in part because they blamed incumbent leaders for existing gun control legislation like the GCA and believed that no compromise should be made.

Political expansion
After 1977, the organization expanded its membership by focusing heavily on political issues and forming coalitions with conservative politicians. Most of these are Republicans. With a goal to weaken the GCA, Knox's ILA successfully lobbied Congress to pass the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) of 1986 and worked to reduce the powers of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). In 1982, Knox was ousted as director of the ILA, but began mobilizing outside the NRA framework and continued to promote opposition to gun control laws.

At the 1991 national convention, Knox's supporters were elected to the board and named staff lobbyist Wayne LaPierre as the executive vice president. The NRA focused its attention on the gun control policies of the Clinton Administration. Knox again lost power in 1997, as he lost reelection to a coalition of moderate leaders who supported movie star Charlton Heston, despite Heston's past support of gun control legislation. In 1994, the NRA unsuccessfully opposed the Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB), but successfully lobbied for the ban's 2004 expiration. Heston was elected president in 1998 and became a highly visible spokesman for the organization. In an effort to improve the NRA's image, Heston presented himself as the voice of reason in contrast to Knox.
The NRA has been described as influential in shaping American gun control policy. The organization influences legislators' voting behavior through its financial resources and ability to mobilize it large membership. The organization has not lost a major battle over gun control legislation since the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban. At the federal level, the NRA successfully lobbied Congress in the mid-1990s to effectively halt governments-sponsored research into the public health effects of firearms, and to ensure the passage of legislation in 2005 largely immunizing gun manufacturers and dealers from lawsuits. At the same time, the NRA stopped efforts at the federal law to increase regulation of firearms. At the state and local level, the NRA successfully campaigned to deregulate guns, for example by pushing state governments to eliminate the ability of local governments to regulate guns and removing restrictions on guns in public places (such as bars and campuses).

Response by SFC Carlos Cruz made Aug 5 at 2018 7:11 PM

2018-08-05T19:11:30-04:00

A veteran (from Latin vetus, meaning "old") is a person who has had long service or experience in a particular occupation or field. A military veteran is a person who has served or is serving in the armed forces. Those veterans that have had direct exposure to acts of military conflict may also be referred to as war veterans (although not all military conflicts, or areas in which armed combat takes place, are necessarily referred to as wars).

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Aug 5 at 2018 7:16 PM

2018-08-05T19:16:56-04:00

Sounds like what most people would call a "Vietnam 'Era' Veteran".

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Aug 5 at 2018 7:45 PM

2018-08-05T19:45:32-04:00

Your Editor is both misinformed since there are many writings by the founding fathers that explain the reasoning behind the second amendment. So far as his claim to being a Vietnam vet, ask where he was stationed in Vietnam, the explain he was Vietnam era, not a Vietnam vet. You cannot be a veteran of something you did not experience.

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Aug 5 at 2018 9:36 PM

2018-08-05T21:36:18-04:00

No there are a lot of support Soldiers and served during our OIF/OEF that served in other areas. Hope this helps

Response by SFC Byron Perry made Aug 5 at 2018 10:38 PM

2018-08-05T22:38:19-04:00

They aren't a Vietnam Veteran, but a Vietnam Era Veteran.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2018 10:50 PM

2018-08-05T22:50:47-04:00

According to new VA policy (I checked about 3 months ago), if you were in uniform during the designated dates of the Vietnam War, and, because I asked about this also, if your were in uniform during the first Gulf War in 1991, you will see Vietnam War and Persian Gulf War on your VA-supplied tombstone when you pass. Until then, yes, you are a Vietnam Era veteran.

Response by MSgt David Wray made Aug 5 at 2018 11:12 PM

2018-08-05T23:12:08-04:00

I agree with Carl. He was a "Vietnam Era Vet" but not a Vietnam vet or a "Vietnam Combat Vet"

Response by SPC Henry Francis made Aug 5 at 2018 11:22 PM

2018-08-05T23:22:31-04:00

The strange wording is likely an attempt to make the actual status “Vietnam Era Veteran” sound like he actually earned the badge of a “Vietnam Veteran”. I am a Vietnam Era Veteran. I got to my PDS, B-Co 2/504, on Ft Bragg in November 1972. 1/504 returned from Vietnam 3 months earlier. No other 82nd troops went to Vietnam after that.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2018 8:11 AM

2018-08-06T08:11:29-04:00

I think the ground has been adequately covered by others on what right looks like here.
However, I would add one thing:
Anyone besides me notice that when a crackpot offers up crazy talk about messing with, redefining, or otherwise changing the Constitution that they tend to claim some form of service to bolster their credibility on the subject?
Whoop-de-freaking-do, you served for two whole years in the Army in Germany. Thank you for your service.
You're still a crackpot.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Aug 6 at 2018 9:16 AM

2018-08-06T09:16:38-04:00

Very gray area. Because I joined in 1973- I am a Vietnam ERA Vet, which I claim went asked if I was in SVN. He is pushing the envelope with is claim- You should contact him with this as it is misleading but not really illegal. Also tell him to research the 2nd better

Response by LTC John Griscom made Aug 6 at 2018 9:56 AM

2018-08-06T09:56:33-04:00

To be a vet of Vietnam or any other conflict, you have to have boots on the ground in that AO. Otherwise, they are an "era" vet or just vet.
I don't consider it on the same level as "stolen valor", but petty ego enhancer.

Response by SSgt Jeanne Wallace made Aug 6 at 2018 10:35 AM

2018-08-06T10:35:17-04:00

They also serve who only stand and wait.....the correct term is Vietnam ERA vet.

Response by TSgt Richard Herman made Aug 6 at 2018 10:36 AM

2018-08-06T10:36:04-04:00

The fact he was never IN country, he was not IN the War/Conflict/Police Action. I always state ERA when talking about my service. I was not iN country but joined during, so I'm a Vietnam Era Vet!

Response by TSgt John Marshall made Aug 6 at 2018 11:19 AM

2018-08-06T11:19:44-04:00

It's Viet Nam Era veteran. Just like I'm a Desert Storm Era veteran.

Response by Col Lyman Faith made Aug 6 at 2018 4:44 PM

2018-08-06T16:44:18-04:00

Since you brought it up: "The National Rifle Association was first chartered in the State of New York on November 16, 1871 by Army and Navy Journal editor William Conant Church and Captain George Wood Wingate. On November 25, 1871, the group voted to elect its first corporate officers. Union Army Civil War General Ambrose Burnside, who had worked as a Rhode Island gunsmith, was elected president." Please note, UNION officers began this organization. Slavery had been done for at least five years by this point.

Response by Cpl Tom Boscoe made Aug 24 at 2018 12:44 PM

2018-08-24T12:44:36-04:00

That's a helleva good question. I served 72-78, several deployments on ships and to "far off exotic lands", but never in a combat zone so I have always called myself a "Vietnam Era" veteran if asked. That line has been blurred by some simply by mistake or forgetting to say "Era" but I see no shame or blame for them unless they state they are "combat veterans" and claim medals they did not earn. Not sure what anyone else claims, especially some who state they served during the Gulf Wars, are they "Gulf War Era" veterans? All said and done I still believe that if you raised your hand and took the oath it didn't matter where you were sent, you signed, you stepped up and you knew there were chances you'd not come home. Stolen valor? I don't know. Just my 2 cents.

Response by SPC Les Darbison made Sep 13 at 2019 1:20 AM

2019-09-13T01:20:13-04:00

Yes, I do Consider it stolen valor. A war era veteran isn't the same as an on the ground participate.

Response by WO1 Craig L Wirth made Mar 17 at 2020 1:49 PM

2020-03-17T13:49:29-04:00

I am a Vietnam Era veteran and I will never accept the nonsense some have said that if you were on active duty during Vietnam then you're a Vietnam veteran.

I volunteered for Vietnam and was told I had a bad attitude and they would send me to Germany as they wanted to end a war, not start another one... so I went to Germany and did something I think, in many ways, was even more dangerous. I married my 1SG's daughter... and he did NOT like me.

Full disclosure... he wasn't my 1SG when his daughter started going out with me.

Response by WO1 Craig L Wirth made Mar 17 at 2020 1:59 PM

2020-03-17T13:59:48-04:00

You got me with the nonsense about: "2nd Amend. was passed to arm slavers hunting runaway slaves, and that the NRA was advancing racism/slavery"
1.) I've always understood it was to allow former slaves to protect themselves from the racist democrats and their enforcement arm called kkk, but I believe it was for all Americans were specifically empowered to defend themselves against a tyrannical government as the founding fathers had to do with England in the revolution... (Long before slaves were freed.)
2.) NRA has NEVER been involved in democrat's racism or harming slaves/ex-slaves in any way. In fact, they actually helped former slaves to protect themselves against the racist democrats. (democrats were the predominant slave owners who did NOT want to see them freed.)

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Jul 6 at 2020 1:12 AM

2020-07-06T01:12:59-04:00

2 points -
1. Call out fake/exaggerated Veterans whenever you can. They deserve it.
2. The 2nd Amendment is for ALL Americans - including blacks who want to defend themselves against racists or gays who want to defend themselves against homophobes.
Equal rights for all means equal rights for ALL.