Can Post Traumatic Stress Disorder ("PTSD") develop in non-combat situations? Can fighting against actions of fraud, waste and abuse?

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Sun, 10 Dec 2017 23:11:03 -0500

Fighting against his poor and negligent leadership, on each and every step of his assignment, in almost a decade and a half of active service, an officer was errantly discharged to cover-up the mistakes of his leadership, clear thru to GOs. Fighting the system; this officer was diagnosed with PTSD. Was this diagnosis another cover-up or can PTSD develop in peacetime?

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Dec 11 at 2017 2:37 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 02:37:51 -0500

Seen it with a family member who was an insurance claims adjuster. He mostly worked settlements. When the company decided nobody could trust nobody, they changed all the work rules and essentially managed by ambush. Seven years and a mental breakdown later, yup, he's damaged goods. The triggers are different than many MILs, but they exist. One thing common in all this is extreme mental terror. Don't know about your particular story because there's a bunch of gaps. PTSD is not wholly owned by the MIL side.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2017 3:34 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 03:34:30 -0500

Yes, PTSD is well documented outside of combat situations. It is also well documented as a non-permanent disorder.

Response by SPC Stacey DeMoss made Dec 11 at 2017 8:00 AM

SPC Stacey DeMoss — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 08:00:54 -0500

Yes sir, it sure can. I can't say that word here. Physical, emotional and sexual abuse are truly evil things. They can and will destroy and forever taint the mind of the abused.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Dec 11 at 2017 8:05 AM

Maj Marty Hogan — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 08:05:42 -0500

Combat is not the only PTSD culprit. People that have grown up in dysfunctional and violent homes, those survivors of a terrible attack, etc. Everyone has different triggers.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Dec 11 at 2017 8:24 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 08:24:55 -0500

I don't know about the in the situation mentioned, but PTSD is not uncommon among Rescue Workers and LEO's that have to deal with "Critical Incidents". Most departments/agencies have programs for "debriefing" those individuals with trained professional counselors. Supposedly kids growing up in areas with lots of gang violence can display the symptoms too. I don't see why not, if you see a bunch of death, I don't see why Chicago would be different from Baghdad.

Response by SGT David T. made Dec 11 at 2017 8:28 AM

SGT David T. — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 08:28:52 -0500

PTSD results from a traumatic experience. What counts as traumatic will vary considerably between people. So I could see that in your example. Most folks who fight the system get run over by it.

Response by AA Joseph Moody made Dec 11 at 2017 9:06 AM

AA Joseph Moody — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:06:11 -0500

About 2 years ago I signed on to help an indie project on a game that wanted to seriously tackle darker themes (game project folded unfortunately) and one thing that we found out was that empathy is a bitch.

In that endeavor over the course of about 6 months our group went from fully well functioning individuals to a neurotic mess, and while I would not jump on the PTSD bandwagon for that there is a type of trauma that happens when you have to get into the persona of people in ugly situations, and unfortunately our minds have evolved faster than our brains. What makes a horror movie so enjoyable is that we all know it is just make believe, even if we suspect that disbelief for a few moments, and part of the art of making one of those entertaining is having an understanding of how the mind works and engaging as much of our deep rooted primitive brain circuits as we can. There is a reason why some of the best directors and writers are full blown psychopaths.

Now as to dealing with a bureaucratic system...'a flight or fight response' is a 'flight or fight response', and a threat is a threat. our brains are wired to deal with threats and to prime ourselves to deal with it, but think of it in these terms, imagine a situation where you need to push your threat detection abilities to not only understand and deal with the current issues but to navigate the meta issues of the movings going on behind the scenes, what traits would aid you in that? More paranoia? More introspection on why that person's face flushed and their voice had what could only be described as a post orgasmic bliss to it while they were giving you that bad news? Would triple extra checks and hyper vigilance to documentation be of benefit?

Our brain while it may be lagging behind in some areas it is VERY good at dealing with threats to survival, and if it thinks keeping you up for 5 extra hours every night while your mind envisions scenarios of what happened and what might have happened behind the scenes is a good thing, then you had best get use to getting by on three hours sleep.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Dec 11 at 2017 10:14 AM

SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 10:14:13 -0500

I think if a soldier or a leader eggs you on long enough to PISS YOU OFF or even in a civilian environment this is enough to set you off and could cause the PTSD to come out. You don't have to shoot a weapon to have PTSD these days I know I've been deployed 4 times and in my counseling classes and being in the hospital for 1 year you learn this.

SAM007

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Dec 11 at 2017 10:25 AM

LT Brad McInnis — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 10:25:55 -0500

Each person is different. I think the operative word in PTSD is stress. If your friend was stressed, then he or she could have PTSD.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Dec 11 at 2017 11:19 AM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:19:22 -0500

SPC DeMoss has provided my hunch in the best manner possible.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Dec 11 at 2017 11:20 AM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:20:13 -0500

Yes, PTSD originitated as a military related phenomena but over the years the medical profession has come to realize that it applies to people in all walks of life. Just recently saw a discussion on PTSD among the survivors of Sandy Hook and have seen speculation that Las Vegas shooting survivors are demonstrating symptoms associated with PTSD.

Response by HN Kathleen M Peck made Dec 11 at 2017 7:20 PM

HN Kathleen M Peck — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 19:20:50 -0500

I'm not sure but I think it's possible. I know someone who suffers from anxiety, depression and almost non-stop tears from the abuse she received from ex. Fortunately, he is in prison and she is with someone who loves her dearly. She still suffers, however, she is finally getting professional help.

Response by CPT Topher Murphy made Dec 13 at 2017 3:16 PM

CPT Topher Murphy — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:16:22 -0500

I'm going to have respectfully disagree. Here is the criteria from the DSM-5.
Criterion A
A person was exposed to one or more event(s) that involved death or threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or threatened sexual violation.

That being said a person developing an anxiety based disorder would reasonable based on the info provided.
I would also wonder how an officer was separated, as they can't be chaptered out.

Response by SPC David Willis made Dec 14 at 2017 11:04 AM

SPC David Willis — Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:04:38 -0500

Certainly, if PTSD only involved combat situations there would be way fewer cases of it in the military.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 14 at 2017 11:54 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:54:15 -0500

The problem many have with stories like this, is they understand the shear number of disinterested parties that have nothing to gain and every thing to loose in such a purported wide spread collusion, it seems impossible to see it as real..Add to that, most times, like here we have but one side of the story, and third party told at that.
So is such a story possible? Yes, as anything is possible, its just most things are unlikely.

Are some susceptible to Post traumatic Stress disorder from non combat trauma? Yes
Has a person, or group gone to great lengths to cover up or discredit someone? Absolutely, and it almost always comes crashing down, because of my very first point. " shear number of disinterested parties that have nothing to gain and every thing to loose in such a purported wide spread collusion"
Eventually, the lie comes apart when someone, just one is no longer willing to further the lie, not even to ignore it.
There is no such thing as a secret..Only a truth that has not yet been told. The only perfect secret is when it is known only to one, and that one person dies having never told, written, emailed, phone called another.

Do people who jump behind a single, third party story often find them selfs later wishing they had not, when "The Rest Of The Story" comes out? Yes, all too often.

With the current administration there is no better time to have your comrade (what an interesting choice of terms) to come forward and seek justice. If it is as you say "the evidence proves that all the information provided by the service was totally false and that the service had eliminated my comrade to cover-up the mistakes within."
It should be a slam dunk case, the media will eat it up, a public trial will no doubt agree totally with your comrades evidence that proves that all the information provided by the service was totally false and that the service had eliminated my comrade to cover-up the mistakes. That is after what happens when there is such evidence.
Being vindicated will likely go a long way in your comrades recovery,,or at least certainly cant hurt I would think.. If it is the false allegations that caused the PTSD, having those allegations proven false by the "totally false" information your comrade now has evidence of...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2017 12:35 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:35:54 -0500

Anyone can get PTSD who suffers any trauma. It's post TRAUMATIC stress disorder. My mom's cousin lost her son to suicide three or four years ago (he was a soldier - young too in his mid 20s). She has PTSD among other issues.

Response by SPC Joel Quey made Feb 12 at 2018 5:29 PM

SPC Joel Quey — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 17:29:53 -0500

Is there a specific reason to believe the diagnosis may be a cover up? Something like this should generally be pretty obvious - if the officer is convinced it's a cover up, then it probably is. If the officer really believes the symptoms are there, then it's probably a real diagnosis. I guess it is possible that the officer sees some symptoms that might be like PTSD, but doesn't believe it's actually PTSD (maybe just depression or anxiety). Someone can always get a 2nd (or 3rd) opinion from another mental health provider (outside the military system too, if you want).

I recently ended up getting a 2nd opinion for a different MH issue almost accidentally, because I had initially gone to Harborview, who later sent me to the VA, so I ended up with a follow-up with both places due to a minor misunderstanding on my end.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Feb 12 at 2018 8:16 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 20:16:18 -0500

Everyone piled on claiming Post Traumatic stress because there was no toilet paper. Deluged by these claims the VA accepted almost all of them. Then they didn't want anyone talking about the stressors because we were upsetting the others. How sad. Most never fired their weapons much less saw combat. We need to seperate COMBAT RELATED POST TRAUMATIC STRESS from anxiety disorder. As it is it interferes with the treatment of those who need it

Response by SPC Bogus Cornett made Feb 13 at 2018 7:11 PM

SPC Bogus Cornett — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 19:11:59 -0500

I wonder if I have had it because my tank crew and I was almost killed on a mountain in Germany

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 14 at 2018 5:05 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 14 Feb 2018 17:05:13 -0500

Anyone who sees/survives a traumatic incident can get PTSD- just as firemen, police, and any other 1st responder. Tho it does sound fishy to me.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2018 10:18 AM

Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 10:18:26 -0500

PTSD can develop from even mild forms of traumatic events/ stressors. It depends on the body and the way it reacts to the trauma and/or stressors

Response by MAJ Bill Maynard made Feb 15 at 2018 3:15 PM

MAJ Bill Maynard — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 15:15:52 -0500

Is there a published account of everything that took place? I would be really curious to read the details. I know a chain of command can sour on someone who is "not on the team". I have no idea what happened, but I do know that no one in a position of authority wants someone to question them and make accusations, whether true or false.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Feb 16 at 2018 12:24 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 12:24:13 -0500

Most definitely yes, We are finding more and more police, firefighters, EMT's and Paramedics are having PTSD. Rape victims, victims of pedophiles, without knowing what the officer went through how can we from the 30,000 foot level determine if it is real or otherwise.

Response by LtCol Brian Ford made Feb 17 at 2018 2:31 AM

LtCol Brian Ford — Sat, 17 Feb 2018 02:31:16 -0500

Without a doubt, YES! I suffer from it after EVERY session of the nightly news!

Response by SSgt Harvey "Skip" Porter made Feb 18 at 2018 1:36 PM

SSgt Harvey "Skip" Porter — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 13:36:46 -0500

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana It's been proven that any traumatic event can cause PTSD. EMS workers, Police and Fireman get it. Individuals involved in traumatic accidents or other life altering events get PTSD. That's fact all one has to do is read or research it.

Peace!

Response by CW5 Ivan Murdock made Feb 19 at 2018 7:21 AM

CW5 Ivan Murdock — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 07:21:09 -0500

PTSD is overdiagnosed - just like ADD ADHD we have allowed our medical field to look at the causes and fail to teach coping mechanisms, look at the current events another young shooter filled with drugs. It is a culture of big pharma in the name of helping us giving these drugs and a culture of acceptance. We have to make sure that you fill the narrative that everyone has PTSD, now it is almost a stigma for our returning soldiers. I served 35 years and saw lots of combat. With that lots of things that just part of the job. I currently am a full-time student getting another Grad degree, I talk to young soldiers all the time on campus, they are in school telling me about their rating and their benefits. I almost always have to ask what caused it, but it does lose some of its shine when I hear "we had a mortarman who had a tube blow up, so every time I fired a mortar I kept waiting for it to blow up" He now is receiving PTSD as a disability. He never saw it, and it never happened to him. There is a point where it would be a temporary issue, but we damage these young men and women by crippling them for a lifetime. There are real cases and they should be given EVERY treatment available but they are clouded by the large numbers of those who have learned the system and have a financial reason to simply never get better. Maybe temporary adjustments and re-evaluations would be part of a system to help our veterans, again care vs. a check. Combat isn't necessary at all, 1st responders, hospital workers, and many others are subjected to trauma. But we can cripple our soldiers by letting this be used for a lifetime. The care is available for a lifetime, but if they would take away the disability rating for most cases after an adjustment period they would empower these young heroes more often than not. I will share, that I do know what PTSD is, my father was a WW2 POW and I saw a man at almost 70 years old that you still couldn't touch when he was asleep, he masked it with booze for a decade and 2 divorces. When he finally met my mom and time had passed he was able to live the rest of his life normally. I never saw the effects but his ability to tell the stories and recover was inspiring. Personally, I had a daughter killed in a car accident, I was at the scene that night and identified her and my daughter in law. I see her in my mind almost every day in the back of the ambulance but we have to learn to cope. I was offered things to help (drugs) and I chose running and cycling to get myself where I could sleep. We need to engage and help our young soldiers, but we need to be honest too, we have allowed our political correctness in our society stop us from a little tough love. I liked to use the "Buck" example from the Band of Brothers mini-series. After diagnosed with combat fatigue he was treated and sent back, he returned after WW2 to prosecute the Robert Kennedy murderer and served on the California Court of Appeals as a judge.

Response by SPC Barbara (Crocker) Carlson made Feb 22 at 2018 1:38 PM

SPC Barbara (Crocker) Carlson — Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:38:35 -0500

Absolutely....... MST is one of the traumas that can result in PTSD. Injuries and situations of high stress, verbal abuse from higher ups, etc etc etc. That PTSD occurs more often in those who’ve been in combat makes total sense; those who weren’t in combat situations can also have experienced traumas that result in PTSD.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Feb 25 at 2018 6:11 AM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Sun, 25 Feb 2018 06:11:24 -0500

I am interested in Delta Dunn's story, if she cares to share with me how, when, why and how to prevent chronic pain. Thanks.

Response by Lisa Fiedler made Feb 25 at 2018 8:31 PM

Lisa Fiedler — Sun, 25 Feb 2018 20:31:35 -0500

First off, it has been renamed PTSS for quite some time now. It's not a disorder. PTS Syndrome happens as a result of any traumatic event. It was finally realized and brought to light thereby changing the name. It is something that absolutely requires talking it out (with either a trusted friend or a professional counselor). I believe that fighting against actions of fraud, waste and abuse is a different kind of stressfulness, but not to the extent of PTSS. Though too many people nowadays cry stress in almost any situation. Grow up! Get the job done; move on with your life.

Response by PFC Donnie Harold Harris made Mar 2 at 2018 11:12 AM

PFC Donnie Harold Harris — Fri, 02 Mar 2018 11:12:21 -0500

Lets not overdose in simplistically their Captain.

Response by Amn Grant Sturm made Mar 22 at 2018 1:59 PM

Amn Grant Sturm — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 13:59:10 -0400

I was in the hospital for a month, died once cause my own immune system was attacking my organs. Also woke up during surgery so yes you can have PTSD from non combat situation

Response by CPL James Zielinski made Mar 23 at 2018 3:41 PM

CPL James Zielinski — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 15:41:33 -0400

It can, but there must be a traumatic experience like an assault or a rape. To think that a rape couldn't cause PTSD is crazy to me. Just being a sucky officer who can't cope isn't enough though, that's plain old incompetence.

Response by SGT Christian Hoskin made Mar 30 at 2018 11:39 AM

SGT Christian Hoskin — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 11:39:20 -0400

Fine ..yes it can..but they hand out that stamp too easily

Response by SMSgt Jeff Kyle made Mar 31 at 2018 11:35 AM

SMSgt Jeff Kyle — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 11:35:50 -0400

I have PTSD, the VA even agrees that I have it. I’ve never been in combat. I have done and seen some pretty horrific stuff over the course of my 25 years. Nightmares every night, which results in very little sleep. I’m jumpier than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. I’m easily startled, the having people directly behind me... I could go on. If you want specifics, I might reply to a PM. I’d rather not talk about any of those experiences. Talking equals remembering, which equals symptoms getting overwhelming. I don’t have enough info from your post to question whether or not the Captain was suffering from PTSD. I have come across narratives that indicate false PTSD claimed have inundated the system.

Response by Sgt Stephen Murphy made Apr 13 at 2018 7:25 AM

Sgt Stephen Murphy — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 07:25:27 -0400

That is clearly not enough information. The word trauma is right in the diagnosis. Combat is not a requirement for trauma but this quick synopsis does not say WHAT traumatic events were experienced. Did the officer"s negligence lead to the injury or death of anyone under his command? That could most definitely have a lasting effect.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2018 10:18 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 10:18:46 -0400

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana you can always develop post traumatic stress disorder in any situation that is traumaticly stressful. It is the in the name, combat is not in the title.

Response by Sgt Roy Thomas made Apr 15 at 2018 12:37 AM

Sgt Roy Thomas — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 00:37:43 -0400

Yes. It can develop during peace time but I believe that it is a different kind of diagnosis

Response by SFC Quinn Chastant made Apr 16 at 2018 9:37 AM

SFC Quinn Chastant — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 09:37:31 -0400

PTSD can have multiple triggers, as for development in peace, yes it is very much possible. Individuals have variable tolerances to psychological trauma, and the physical assault of the senses we associate with that. Police, Fire, and EMS workers are equally suseptable to PTSD as are combatants. As for Office Workers, it can happen but they often had undiagnosed PTSD prior to developing signs and symptoms. A Medical practitioner or clinical psychologist would be the one making a PTSD determination more so than a Layman.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2018 1:27 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 13:27:44 -0400

Individual results may vary.

Response by WO1 Mark Sisto made Apr 22 at 2018 11:20 PM

WO1 Mark Sisto — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 23:20:24 -0400

Would have to be something that shocks you to your core. An especially traumatic relationship can do it ... Manifesting it's muscle spasms.

Response by Chris Smith made May 1 at 2018 8:56 AM

Chris Smith — Tue, 01 May 2018 08:56:05 -0400

I have no clue if the involved officer in the OP’s diagnosis of PTSD was a coverup or not, but PTSD is by no means restricted to combat survivors, and it is found in civilian populations too. I can’t find the source at the moment, but I read somewhere once that something like 80% of all reported cases of PTSD were experienced by a civilian who had been involved in a motor vehicle accident. Whether that is true or not, PTSD definitely happens outside the context of combat-related military service.

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd/index.shtml

index.shtml

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made May 11 at 2018 7:10 AM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Fri, 11 May 2018 07:10:08 -0400

Much-appreciated Chief.

Response by SGT Shane Larson made May 18 at 2018 9:54 PM

SGT Shane Larson — Fri, 18 May 2018 21:54:59 -0400

Must have missed it, Who, what, when, you know the stuff that goes with the story as proof, or at least some slander would be a start. Very light on the information for such a heavy subject. Just my suggestion, want real responses, get some meat and potatoes in this story.

Response by PFC Stephen Trynosky made May 22 at 2018 8:59 AM

PFC Stephen Trynosky — Tue, 22 May 2018 08:59:31 -0400

Trauma can cause PTSD, period. Been in life threatening situations twice, once heads first off a motorcycle at 55MPH, second at 70MPH a Bobcat coming at me that fell off a trailer. I relive those at least once a month, cold sweats and all. I suspect EVERYBODY does. I can see where someone in a position of authority, he/she cannot handle but who has a sense of their own failures and a conscience could relive their could have's, would have's, should have's for the rest of their life. Now, should you get a disability rating for that. In my opinion, NO.

Response by CMSgt John Nederhoed made May 23 at 2018 8:07 AM

CMSgt John Nederhoed — Wed, 23 May 2018 08:07:40 -0400

To answer the first question, Yes. However having it documented and diagnosed is a whole new issue. The standard check the box question from the VA is "have you been in direct combat" when you say no, the VA automatically checks the no PTSD box. When I asked why, I was told you can only get PTSD from direct combat. I then asked what if you were a remote sensor operator and saw/heard everything the troops in direct combat saw and heard. The VA answer was "Policy says only those in direct combat can have PTSD"

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2018 12:55 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 May 2018 12:55:06 -0400

If there wasn't VA disability for PTSD I'd say no, but since there is, yes...

Response by SGM Jeffrey Hall made May 25 at 2018 2:13 AM

SGM Jeffrey Hall — Fri, 25 May 2018 02:13:44 -0400

PTSD can manifest with any form of trauma: combat, accidents, assault, abuse, natural disasters, witnessing trauma, or being told of trauma. PTSD can and does develop in peacetime. I refer you to DSM-5, where you will find a comprehensive definition of as well as an explanation of potential causes.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made May 25 at 2018 12:54 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Fri, 25 May 2018 12:54:11 -0400

Yes it can, I'm an example of it.

Response by CW2 William Jones made May 28 at 2018 7:32 AM

CW2 William Jones — Mon, 28 May 2018 07:32:08 -0400

PTSD is a tough condition to diagnose. It can be caused by any number of causes and one is prolonged exposure to a situation out of the persons control. For others in non combat related cases it is sexual trauma, civil service such as EMTs and police officers, and those that have faded life’s worst such as loss of a loved one or even worse. (Burn victim, amputations, etc.) PTSD is he brains inability to process that trauma and how it manifests itself is different in each case. If they are diagnosing him/her with it, it may be a blessing because it is a minimum 50% disability rating. It is better than getting pushed out with no compensation as if the situation was being pushed under the rug. It is also possible that the two are completely unrelated and that his PTSD is due to other cercumstances that are not being mentioned. No one can really know unless they knew the soldier and had all of the facts.

Response by SPC Steve Willis, PhD made May 29 at 2018 4:58 PM

SPC Steve Willis, PhD — Tue, 29 May 2018 16:58:30 -0400

PTSD can be — and is — experienced by a significant number of non-combatant victims of abuse, period, end of story! Not every victim does, but it is FAR more frequent than the general public is aware of.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2018 5:19 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 May 2018 17:19:48 -0400

Of course, it can.

Response by PO3 Michael James made May 29 at 2018 5:44 PM

PO3 Michael James — Tue, 29 May 2018 17:44:51 -0400

CPT Gurinder, Sir; I have no idea.. Non-combat situations ?? All I can say is that if you suffer from life-threating issues and all you get is denials, after denials... If you request help from our Government reference FOIA, and our own Government denies you this information.. Well this is a Non-Combat situation, however, this is VERY stressful, and Extremely depressing.. The FOIA information I requested was what type of aircraft I was on !!! This is NOT a threat to national security... They refuse to answer this !!! Is this how the government honors its Veterans ?? With Respect..

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2018 8:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 May 2018 20:46:14 -0400

You don't even have to be in the military to suffer from PTSD. Any type of stressful situation with a prolonged effect can cause it from getting a divorce to the death of a family member.
Now whether the situation you described is actually PTSD or not is a separate matter.

Response by SGT Albert Melise made May 30 at 2018 8:18 AM

SGT Albert Melise — Wed, 30 May 2018 08:18:52 -0400

Yes you can get it in non combat situations. I got it in GTMO Cuba for taking part in torture of detainees. Also female soldiers can get it when being raped or sexually assaulted.. In a civilian side as well for many traumatic events in life..

Response by LCDR William Higgins made Jun 3 at 2018 11:03 PM

LCDR William Higgins — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 23:03:00 -0400

It can fully develop under many Situations. I know a veteran who was subjected to severe beatings as a junior enlisted, back in the age of "fan room discipline".. In subsequent years he had mental health difficulties. He was actually in patient at a va hospital for potential suicide attempt when he was discharged. He attempted 2 tines for help, and was granted social security disability. When I learned the story, I encouraged him to apply again, after being denied. After record keepers said his medical record did not exist, telling it to us senators, the records did not exist. It took a freedom of information act to get them found after 5 years. He received unemployability with 5 years retroactive from that third application. It actually should have been back to his first application years earlier.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Jun 3 at 2018 11:33 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 23:33:43 -0400

The only "qualification" to get PTS is to have a traumatic experience. It can be a car accident, sexual assault, a hostile work environment or a natural disaster. Remember - many combat Veterans have PTS but not everyone who has PTS is a combat Veteran.

Response by CPO David Sharp made Jun 5 at 2018 11:42 AM

CPO David Sharp — Tue, 05 Jun 2018 11:42:53 -0400

As far as leadership problems, I have experienced them and they are frustrating, In peace time, Police, Sheriffs and Fire Fighters can have the same problems. The only thing I don't support is the use of the term for many aspects that occur in life.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Jun 6 at 2018 12:11 PM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Wed, 06 Jun 2018 12:11:32 -0400

Great contributions to this excellent discussion on PTSD. Some understand that PTSD can be chronic and others thread a tale of deception, non-permanent conditions, and curable wounds. In all, the best are confused it seems. Thanks.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2018 10:19 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 22:19:45 -0400

Absolutely.

Response by SSgt Dr. David Leffler made Jun 9 at 2018 1:39 PM

SSgt Dr. David Leffler — Sat, 09 Jun 2018 13:39:55 -0400

Veterans of the wars in Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, Somalia, Iraq, and Afghanistan suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) found significant relief from their symptoms as a result of practicing the Transcendental Meditation® technique, according to a new study published recently in Military Medicine.
The 41 veterans and 5 active-duty soldiers in the study had been diagnosed with clinical levels of PTSD. After one month, 87 percent had a clinically significant decrease of more than 10 points. The reduction was so great that 37 participants had their symptoms reduced to below the clinical level for PTSD.

Source: https://academic.oup.com/milmed/article-abstract/183/1-2/e144/4781643?redirectedFrom=fulltext

4781643

Response by Sgt Jean Civitarese made Jun 10 at 2018 12:41 PM

Sgt Jean Civitarese — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 12:41:45 -0400

Of course it can! I have it. As I explained earlier, I was traumatized when I was punished for reported that I was sexually assaulted and my OIC, the perpetrator, was not punished. AND, he cont. to assault more women! You know how much guilt I have because I could not stop him from hurting others??

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 11 at 2018 7:42 AM

SSG Brian G. — Mon, 11 Jun 2018 07:42:34 -0400

Can PTSD develop outside of Combat? Yes. This has been shown to be the case with Firefighters, Police Officers, and even victims of car crashes. Basically PTSD is a catch all mental disorder that can manifest anywhere there is trauma that the mind cannot handle. The mind is tricky as some have significant barriers and fortitude while some seemingly do not.

Response by Patrick J Salem made Jun 17 at 2018 9:57 AM

Patrick J Salem — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 09:57:47 -0400

PTSD isn’t a condition limited to combat. Any life-threatening event can result in a person developing PTSD. Which I guess begs the question, how much of the above-described “fight” led this person to feel as though their life was at risk. I taught middle school on the South Side of Chicago, and many of those kids exhibited the symptoms of PTSD from living in neighborhoods with high murder and gang violence rates. I worked with non-combat vets who were victims of MST, and they had PTSD. I know corrections officers who have PTSD from working in jails/prisons.

The thing that I would be interested in discovering is why you and I could have the same experience that results in one of us developing PTSD but not the other one. Because if we can figure that out before combat, many, many veterans and their families could have better lives.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Jun 17 at 2018 7:58 PM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 19:58:00 -0400

I am so glad and tickled that my question concerning PTSD on RP has invited a very healthy discussion between my compadres. Some disagree that PTSD can develop outside of combat situations, while a vast majority of us experienced, first hand, PTSD outside combat conditions. A few found cures for their ailment, while others are still discovering a befitting cure. Many are not terminal cases, while a sizable portion are acute.

My complaint, while on active duty, was not investigated. I question the IG today and the IG claims that all concerns in my complaint were addressed, but there are no reports of investigation on-file with the IG, even under the FOIA and Privacy Act. How should I tackle this IG without inviting reprisal? I welcome your votes, comments and above all, your advice.

Thanks my Brothers, Sisters, and friends.

Response by SSgt Holden M. made Jun 20 at 2018 3:58 PM

SSgt Holden M. — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:58:02 -0400

I think it's a slippery slope when it comes to diagnosis and not being a Psychologist because everybody has an opinion and tends to compare to others. When I was talking to a Psychologist hired by the V.A. to talk about my PTSD to figure out a disability rating he told me for the purpose of figuring out the disability rating to think about the traumatic events that I felt like I could have been killed during the event. He didn't discredit the other things that are traumatic that happen like a really bad car accident that I had a mild concussion from. So ever since then when people talk about PTSD diagnosis my first thought is did that person think that they could have been killed during the event. So if there were threats made against that individuals life and they felt like those making those threats against that individuals life could fulfill those threats and made different advances to prove that they are serious and that individual was/is always looking over their shoulder waiting for somebody to kill them then I would say there is something there but since I'm not a Psychologist I don't feel like I would be a good judge to say PTSD or something else. I'm sure there is a diagnosis out there and PTSD seems to be the most popular these days and sadly seems like a lot of people like to self diagnose as well.

Response by 1stSgt Ed White made Jun 24 at 2018 4:23 PM

1stSgt Ed White — Sun, 24 Jun 2018 16:23:44 -0400

Definitely, I have seen airman assigned to assisting with the aftermath of aircraft accidents suffer severe incidents of PTSD. But, that is not the only incidents i have seen. Officers commanding units where a suicide has occurred feel a great deal of responsibility feeling they should have prevented it. There are other instances that cause PTSD that are not as severe, but it is still PTSD.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2018 5:36 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Jul 2018 17:36:20 -0400

Your description is a bit too vague to answer definitively, and couldn’t be answered definitively except by a BHO who had examined the person in question. However, here are the criteria used to make the diagnosis:

Criterion A (required): must be exposed to death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual of threatened sexual violence by either 1) direct exposure, witnessing the trauma, 3) learning that a relative or close friend was exposed to the trauma or, 4) through indirect exposure to aversive details of the trauma (e.g. first responders, medics, etc). Unless the person in question was exposed to death, threatened death (such as a mortar attack or fire fight), actual or threatened serious injury (maybe others threatened his life or health?), then he wouldn't technically meet the criteria for PTSD, though he could exhibit any of the stress related symptoms below.

Criterion B (required): re-experiencing of the trauma through unwanted, upsetting memories, or nightmares, or flashbacks, or emotional distress after exposure to reminders, or physical reactivity (e.g. hyperventilation, racing heart, etc) after exposure to traumas. One or more of these must be present.

Criterion C (required): avoidance of trauma related stimuli by avoiding trauma related thoughts/feelings, or trauma related reminds. One or both must be present

Criterion D (required): negative thoughts or feelings that began or got worse after the trauma such as memory problems about the trauma, negative view of yourself or the world, excessive blame of self or others for causing the trauma, negative emotions, loss of interest in doing things, feeling isolated or alone, problems with having positive emotions or enjoying fun things. Must have two or more of these

Criterion E (required): arousal and reactivity that started or got worse after the trauma such as irritability or aggression, risky or destructive behavior (speeding, drinking, etc), hypervigilance (always watching), larger than normal startle reaction, problems concentrating, or problems sleeping

Finally, all the above must last at least one month and must cause the person emotional upset/distress or problems getting along socially, at work, school, etc.

Your friend, if distressed, should seek a behavioral health consultation. At the very least, there may be an occupational stress disorder (not the same at PTSD) or other issue present.

Response by SrA Sarah LaPlante made Jul 14 at 2018 1:59 PM

SrA Sarah LaPlante — Sat, 14 Jul 2018 13:59:07 -0400

PTSD is real. I have the diagnosis and I said Fuck the diagnosis I'm going to still be productive and shit. I went back to school got to Master Degrees had a great Fucking job. Would get to work before everyone else work my ass off leave after everyone else. Followed a good diet, exercise, socialized, took time off and shit still didn't stop me from eventually losing my job. What did I not do right?

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Jul 16 at 2018 5:16 PM

SPC Randy Torgerson — Mon, 16 Jul 2018 17:16:40 -0400

I think its possible to develop PTSD in peace time, because there are types of training and mission critical operations that are related to actual combat stress. But for being lazy on your job or not performing your job to set standards, then no. That is miss using PTSD to fill an answer void.

Response by Sgt Erle Mutz made Jul 17 at 2018 12:39 AM

Sgt Erle Mutz — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 00:39:08 -0400

PTSD can come from a huge plethora of causes. ANYTHING that causes a traumatic event in someone's life can initiate PTSD. Rape, accidents, witnessing (anywhere within your visual perception) any tragedy, mugging, stabbing, drug use, mass shootings, bombings, molestation, abuse (physical, mental, drugs), neglect, murder, and many many more 'events' that you may experience or see. I've ONLY scratched the surface, but I'm sure you get my meaning.

Response by Sgt Ivan Kenter made Jul 17 at 2018 6:48 PM

Sgt Ivan Kenter — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:48:00 -0400

Not sure how to reply to that. I have been out for 15 years, but 5 years ago a building fell on me in Omaha. (It was a bad day) I do not know about PTSD but I do not want to go in a large concrete structure anymore, Any one who wants to see the pictures look for INI omaha, jan 2014

Response by PO1 Barbara Matthews made Jul 17 at 2018 9:49 PM

PO1 Barbara Matthews — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 21:49:47 -0400

Yes, PTSD can and does happen in peace. Training accidents, sexual assualt, witnessing or being a victim of a violent crime, terroristic events, are some common things. Usually PTSD is caused by being exposed to a traumatic event or reported exposure to events or actions.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jul 17 at 2018 11:29 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 23:29:13 -0400

Nightmares thirty years after retiring from a toxic employment represent a form of PTSD!! CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana Having a Patrol Cap, size 7-5/8 nearby, reduces other nightnares.

Response by Maj Chuck Chatham made Jul 19 at 2018 10:17 AM

Maj Chuck Chatham — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 10:17:19 -0400

Of course it can. It is a result of extreme emotional distress, especially that which was brought on over a period of time.

Response by SFC Jeffrey Port made Jul 19 at 2018 5:30 PM

SFC Jeffrey Port — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:30:34 -0400

I know soldiers that were diagnosed with PTSD while serving state side without a doubt. Stress is stress.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2018 12:54 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 00:54:47 -0400

PTSD is a general term that has to do with stress-traits being exhibited after a traumatic event. Traumatic events don't only happen in combat.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2018 11:15 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Jul 2018 11:15:33 -0400

PTSD can absolutely develop in peacetime. It’s mistakenly associated with combat only. Whereas it has many forms. Some even include dormant traits caused by childhood issues. Or even just work stressors that can break an individual down. One event traumatic enough to cause shock to an individual can cause a reaction powerful enough to cause changes in an individuals life. Those changes are classified as PTSD

Response by Sgt Scott Sullivan, CCNP, CCNA, Security+ made Jul 29 at 2018 10:37 AM

Sgt Scott Sullivan, CCNP, CCNA, Security+ — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 10:37:11 -0400

According to the DSM-5, yes. I'm not sure it requires an internet forum poll to validate. But, simply claiming PTSD because of stress isn't enough. The criteria is pretty well defined

https://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/PTSD-overview/dsm5_criteria_ptsd.asp

dsm5_criteria_ptsd.asp

Response by PO2 Steven Michaeli made Aug 6 at 2018 5:32 AM

PO2 Steven Michaeli — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 05:32:54 -0400

My wife has the opinion that I have “problems”. I participated in remains recovery from Jonestown and during OIF I was kept stateside and had to welcome home several friends horizontal instead of vertical. Now I have a problem with crying. I think it’s from the concussions and subdural hematoma I had. She thinks PTSD, but I never saw combat

Response by SGT Kyle Bickley made Aug 7 at 2018 10:35 PM

SGT Kyle Bickley — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 22:35:06 -0400

I don't really buy the office work as a PTSD situation. As for can it happen in non combat situation? You bet! Training accidents can be very violent. Watch in the late 80's as 3 troops were cut to pieces on Fort Carson by a Bangalore. That messed with the heads of many of our guys on the range that day. Also seen a guy get his head smash at NTC on board a APC. Our Medic went into depression over that. In Germany seen a man get shot at Red Leg in Heilbronn. Killed him instantly. I could go on but you get the message quick. These are not normal situations. Seen some of the hardest guys I ever met crack when they lost a buddy. Seen an entire company break down and cry on a roll call when we lost our guys at Thundar Ally. Units are close. I'd say closer then most family's!

Response by LTC Wayne Dandridge made Aug 10 at 2018 12:16 PM

LTC Wayne Dandridge — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 12:16:03 -0400

PTSD can and frequently results from trauma of any kind, auto or aircraft or train accident, rape, assault, burglary, armed robbery, death of a loved one or loved ones, domestic abuse, etc..

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 10 at 2018 12:47 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 12:47:45 -0400

I firmly believe constant stress over a long period of time, or a sudden intense stressor can cause PTSD.

Response by LTC Wayne Dandridge made Aug 10 at 2018 4:02 PM

LTC Wayne Dandridge — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 16:02:08 -0400

Thanks for the vote up Gene.

Response by SPC William Weedman made Aug 11 at 2018 9:55 AM

SPC William Weedman — Sat, 11 Aug 2018 09:55:30 -0400

The best description I ever heard of PTSI is that everyone has a “slop bucket” we toss bad things in. As we live we add to it and sometimes we get to pour a little out. PTSI occurs when the bucket overflows. Living life fills the bucket (I.e. chronic stress fighting FWA) then a major event happens and the bucket overflows into the rest of your life. In a word....Yes

Response by SFC Roger Senatore made Aug 13 at 2018 3:34 PM

SFC Roger Senatore — Mon, 13 Aug 2018 15:34:22 -0400

PTSD is nothing but a list of symptoms, and, it seems, the causation of the symptoms is not particularly important. TBI and Mefloquine toxicity often have greatly over-lapping or consistent symptoms with "PTSD." If this officer came into the Army as a healthy well adjusted young man, but latter developed some kind of mental illness that rendered him unfit for continued service, we are morally obligated to take care of him. To the point others have made; there is no way on God's green Earth that some elaborate conspiracy is involved.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Aug 17 at 2018 12:22 PM

MSgt Michael Smith — Fri, 17 Aug 2018 12:22:30 -0400

Yes. Its called PTSD-The S is for Stress. It's not PTCSD for Combat Stress. Combat is just one way people can get PTSD.

Response by CW3 Susan Burkholder made Aug 21 at 2018 11:00 AM

CW3 Susan Burkholder — Tue, 21 Aug 2018 11:00:33 -0400

It is erroneous to believe that PTSD only exists in the military. Civilians can experience trauma and have nightmares, etc and lifelong consequences afterward.
There is however clinical depression and moderate depression as well. Working in a prolonged toxic work environment can lead to depression easily. I'm skeptical that a doctor or psychiatrist would risk his license to diagnose PTSD just to help out the soldier who was inept.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Aug 26 at 2018 11:52 PM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Sun, 26 Aug 2018 23:52:49 -0400

Yes, it can. I speak from personal experience from serving in fire and EMS. I have seen it in others, and in myself ... granted in some ways that was closer to a combat situation than not ... no one can look at a broken and mangled body, or work feverishly to save the life of another human only to lose the battle and not be effected. Each time takes it's toll. Some can't take a lot, some can take more, some find a way to manage, some do not. I saw the breaking point coming, and made the necessary adjustments.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Sep 2 at 2018 10:25 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 22:25:31 -0400

I've personally seen some toxic leadership environments lead to actual physical disease in the recent past. In one small unit, a group of four subject matter experts were exposed to so much stress that three of the four developed heart disease. One had to retire and the other two require continuing medical treatment to this day. Yes, PTSD can develop in non-combat situations, and it's not just a matter of "he said, she said..", it can be quite real.

Response by AN Eric Lewis made Sep 3 at 2018 5:35 PM

AN Eric Lewis — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 17:35:10 -0400

Whether PTSD can develop from non-combat situations shouldn't be in question. It has been treated for decades as stemming from personal physical assaults, survivors of any traumatic experience such as plane crashes, earthquakes, hurricanes, 09-11-01, car crashes, helping reclaim the dead bodies from disasters, and many other situations, can develop it and have developed it. It isn't a, "military," term. There are many more people treated for PTSD outside of our military circles than within them. We hear about it as being a veterans issue because we are veterans. However, developing it because of administrative encumbrances? I asked three psychologist friends about this and they all looked at me with blank faces then began shaking their heads. They each said that they'd not be able to justify an administrative encumbrance as crossing the threshold of a traumatic experience. They all also asked if perhaps his persistence to fight the system, "at each and every command over a decade and a half," his oppositional defiance if you will, was actually a symptom of his PTSD. They said it isn't an uncommon manifestation and the diagnosis and discharge could have been accurate but there's no way to know with such limited information. So, I'm just speculating. There are many who develop and get treatment for PTSD during peacetime, though - EMT's, Paramedics, physical event survivors, Law Enforcement Officers, Firemen, doctors and nurses, and anyone involved in saving (and losing) lives.

Response by LTC Donell Kelly made Sep 3 at 2018 5:54 PM

LTC Donell Kelly — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 17:54:56 -0400

As a retired ANC, I can tell you from experience that PTSD is much more common than reported in the AMEDD. The seemingly endless stream of massive body wounds from down range since ‘03 have left many in the AMMED with multiple deployments both downrange & to various MEDCENS around CONUS. 1year down range service in CHS’s & FST’s (Combat Support Hospitals & Forward Surgical Teams) get their patients directly from the battlefield, received from flight medics in air rescue/air ambulance crews. These personnel are both AD & USAR. 3 year PCS assignments for AD to receiving the wounded @ Landstuhl in Germany, Nat’l Naval Med Cen in DC, & the burn unit in San Antonio are also back filled with many USAR personnel who often extend their service for an additional year’s tour.
That’s anywhere from 1to 3 year assignments where the staff AND all the support staff see severely wounded patients every single day; multiple amputations, ex-fixes, wound vacs on open bellies, ICP (intracranial pressure) monitors sticking out of the skulls swathed in bandages, usually ventilated, etc. Docs in the USAR usually do 90 day rotations, many of them trauma/ICU docs from civillian trauma hospitals, who freely admit that the battle trauma is many times more severe. Nurses, medics, lab & radiology techs serve 1-3 yrs, depending on AD or USAR status.
The sights, sounds, smells, colors of the wounds are a daily immersion in the horror of acute & massive trauma. Add to that the additional ongoing interactions with pt families, their grief, fear, & anger, & you have classic sensory & emotional overload. For those serving down range, mortars, IED’s, VBIED’s, etc, it’s compounded. Unfortunately, since the AMEDDare the “fixers & healers” there is both personal & self-imposed professional pressure to stuff it down, step up, keep on going, etc. Often, the stuffed down feelings come back to haunt us years down the road. So the question of whether or not non-combat PTSD happens, at least in the AMEDD, is a moot point.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Sep 10 at 2018 5:59 AM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 05:59:11 -0400

Thanks for participation of all who provided their inputs to my post "PTSD outside combat situations, which in many cases is caused by toxic leaderships". Your participation has given me a new generation subject to write about. Much appreciated.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Sep 10 at 2018 6:27 AM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 06:27:24 -0400

Much appreciated all that contributed to my post "PTSD - the cause of a toxic leadership", which has given me new wings to explore a fresh manuscript titled "Toxic Leaders are cause and become catalyst for PTSD outside combat". I hope my manuscript is worthy of your attention and appreciation. Thanks. PFC Cody "Delta" Dunn,SGM Erik Marquez AN Eric Lewis,1stSgt Ed White,CH (CPT) James L. Machado Workman,Col Private RallyPoint Member,Maj Marty Hogan,LtCol Charlie Brown,Lt Col Lee Colburn,SGM Erik Marquez,Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin,PO1 William "Chip" Nagel,SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth,COL Mikel J. Burroughs,CW5 Ivan Murdock. All others I missed; please know your thoughts and participation are accounted for and will be incorporated in my manuscript too. Thanks to all alike!!!

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Sep 10 at 2018 6:31 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 06:31:59 -0400

Yes sir I believe PTSD can develop in individuals in non-combat situations, childhood traumatic experiences can trigger it.

Response by Tina Whitman made Sep 13 at 2018 8:50 PM

Tina Whitman — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 20:50:41 -0400

PTSD is a traumatic event that causes issues. It doesn't just have to be combat. Any type of abuse or violence can cause it or even something the person perceives as an attack that keeps replaying in their mind. Might not seem like much to someone else but to the affected person, it is a ptsd event.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Sep 28 at 2018 11:11 PM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Fri, 28 Sep 2018 23:11:42 -0400

Yes it can. Look at the case of one F-15 crew chief at Spangdalem AB, Germany in the late 90s. He inspected his aircraft during a phase maintenance, found a questionable discrepency with two control rods, realigned them according to the tech manual as he should. But yet, when the aircraft flew, it crashed, killing the pilot. The crew chief was interviewed about his maintenance proceedures and found innocent of any wrong doing. But his feelings about what he might have got him thinking, he killed another human being. He felt deeply regretable, went out in to a farmer's field, climbed into a hunting stand and shot himself. If this isn't PTSD in a non combat sotuation what is? (Note, I might be wrong about the air base name in Germany, please forgive my poor memory that hits me now and then).

Response by 1SG Ken Rossi made Oct 7 at 2018 11:17 PM

1SG Ken Rossi — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 23:17:55 -0400

Here is a general site that provides an extract of what DSM-5 indicates are the causes, symptoms and treatments for PTSD. https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/posttraumatic-stress-disorder-(ptsd)-dsm--5-309.81-(f43.10). You can also look at https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hijacked-your-brain/201306/ptsd-becomes-more-complex-in-the-dsm-5-part-ii. The best source is to check out the DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, 5th Edition). This is the general reference used by psychiatrists and psychologists when diagnosing disorders such as PTSD. Is it the best source? probably not but it is all we have to go by for now until research provides us with more guidance. As you will see, there is no specific connection to combat. According to DSM-5, ". . . an event which creates psychological trauma in response to actual or threatened death, serious injury, or sexual violation."

Theravive

This therapist does not exist on our site or is currently inactive.

Response by A1C John Reese made Oct 13 at 2018 10:43 PM

A1C John Reese — Sat, 13 Oct 2018 22:43:51 -0400

Just what is PTSD? A response to an event that one is either emotionally or psychologically prepared to handle? I didn't get it for a while, but growing up with WWII vets all around and watching families deal with Vietnam while I was in school, I saw patterns. My uncle was a top turret gunner/flight engineer on a B-17, and never talked about his experiences. When he did talk, it was at the VFW with fellow vets. He finally opened up to my older sister who used his experiences to write a history of the war from his perspective. He brought out photos he had taken twenty years earlier and that had sat in boxes all that time, never seeing the light of day. During a lot of those "study sessions" he would just stop talking and start crying.
Many years later while starting a family of my own we lost our youngest son at birth, and that mentality of "Suck it up cause you're the man of the house" meant the raw emotions were shoved away for later, never dealt with in a realistic way. They came back to the surface some twenty years later while back at school for a career change, covering US history and subjects that brought back my own memories. It didn't help that I'd been recently in an accident, and my son had run over a cyclist who ran a stop sign, memories have a way of being just as fresh "today" as they were from the past. Nope, not service related. Not even close. But who is really prepared for the worst? Looking back at how my uncle had kept his secrets for all those years I can more fully understand what it's like. The actual cause could be almost anything, from personal loss, injury on or off duty, or whatever events take us on that mental trip we're not prepared for. To be quite honest, I wouldn't be able to write this without some very serious help from some great people on campus. Starting with our dean of students and other professionals who help students deal with the stress of learning.

Response by SPC David Mangum made Oct 15 at 2018 2:06 PM

SPC David Mangum — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 14:06:25 -0400

Absolutely, I served in the Army, Didn't have PTSD, Eight years later got it from my Wife, So glad I Divorced her.

Response by MSgt Dave Burke made Oct 29 at 2018 4:33 PM

MSgt Dave Burke — Mon, 29 Oct 2018 16:33:21 -0400

PTSD is NOT just for combat troops. For some really dedicated troops the stress of dealing with idiot officers and NCOs can do just as much damage as combat. In fact it is a type of combat and must be taken seriously.

Response by CPL Peter King made Nov 5 at 2018 1:35 PM

CPL Peter King — Mon, 05 Nov 2018 13:35:52 -0500

"PTSD is a normal response to an abnormal situation". It is not a soldiers diease' it can occur with anyone who has been faced with a traumatic event, be that combat, rape, assault.

I think that in the military we are better equipped to cope with it. For us it now a recognized condition. For many civilians they have to deal with it alone.

Response by SGT Philip Klein made Nov 12 at 2018 3:22 PM

SGT Philip Klein — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:22:21 -0500

Are you high or something?

Response by SrA John Monette made Nov 12 at 2018 3:33 PM

SrA John Monette — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:33:59 -0500

PTSD can certainly develop in non-combat situations. survivors of assaults, rapes, and other violent crimes can absolutely develop PTSD. the name itself is an indicator. "Traumatic Stress" I would be skeptical about someone developing PTSD from the example you provided.

Response by MAJ Jim Hollingsworth made Nov 25 at 2018 3:31 PM

MAJ Jim Hollingsworth — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 15:31:51 -0500

Yes it can, the same as for any civilian in a situation causing a significant emotional event.

I startle. I have done so for over 30 years and didn't understand why until recently. In May 1983 two of my Soldiers were seriously injured in an electrical explosion that occurred approximately ten feet behind me. Whenever I am focused on something or unaware someone is behind me even a quiet whisper causes a a reaction.

Response by PO3 Sondra Baier made Oct 23 at 2019 8:43 PM

PO3 Sondra Baier — Wed, 23 Oct 2019 20:43:37 -0400

Well I know for a fact I didn't go to combat but the things that happened to me in my military career 10 years definitely compounded and made my PTSD complex and brought me to a seven year old emotional state and Mister trying to prove that I get pushed out for higher 10-year when I'm Medical Board and now the VA won't even consider me as PTSD and I got to go through the whole thing again disassociation panic attacks nightmares fatigue you name it I have it but I didn't go to combat therefore do you think I'm discriminate against absolutely

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2020 8:19 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 08:19:04 -0500

This criteria must be met for a diagnosis of PTSD to be met.

The person was exposed to: death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual or threatened sexual violence, in the following way(s):

Direct exposure
Witnessing the trauma
Learning that a relative or close friend was exposed to a trauma
Indirect exposure to aversive details of the trauma, usually in the course of professional duties (e.g., first responders, medics)

That’s the T in PTSD. There, of course, is other criteria but absent a T there is no PTSD.

But let’s say he did meet the criteria. A diagnosis does not mean discharge. First the Soldier has to have received proper care (or refused care). Then, the Soldier must be permanently non deployable. At that time, a medical discharge can be pursued.

Details are limited but I’m hard pressed to think how your friend would meet criteria.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2020 9:30 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 09:30:21 -0500

if you're asking this question, you've obviously never worked in logistics or admin. LOL

Response by SSG Gordon Holmes made Feb 28 at 2020 1:14 AM

SSG Gordon Holmes — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 01:14:10 -0500

Yes PTSD can occur from non-combat situations. The first time I had PTSD I was a Rescue Diver for the Sacramento County Drowning Accident Rescue Team (DART). I was searching for a body (and I had recovered many bodies in different states of decomposition), I was in the water alone being tended by other team members with a back up diver on the surface. I found a boat which I thought was the one I was looking for. I tied off the search rope to the boat and searched for the body but did not find it. I started to surface and ended up getting trapped under and object. My first thought was it was a barge we were working next to. I was trapped for a while, I managed to find my way back down to the boat I was tied up to and located the rope again and surfaced. It turned out the boat we were looking for was tangled with the ropes from the boat I found and was floating above it. I was trapped in the overturned boat. I only made one dive after that day and could not handle it anymore. I had all the symptoms of PTSD and treated for a couple years. With the right treatment I overcame the PTSD but still have not dived since.

Years later I joined the CAANG to finish out my 20 years. I deployed for OIF, but was injured not combat related, and sent home. I tried to get treatment from the VA and the military for months but kept getting told I was off orders so I couldn't treat military and the VA doctor (after 3 months) told me I could not treat until my claim was approved (which was a lie). After about 4 months I was sent back to my original unit. All this time I had been fighting by myself against the VA and Military for treatment. When I got back to my original unit I continued to fight for treatment. Over a period of months I was threatened over 15 times with Article 15's for pushing for treatment. I was threatened for going to the Wounded Warrior Hot line. I was physically threatened by my first Sergeant when by regulations I advised him I was going to the press. The company commander threatened to have me arrested if I did not attend AT, even though my doctors all wrote profiles. I did not attend. My VA psychologist told me to take a vacation out of state. Not withstanding my injuries I ended up being diagnosed with Severe Depression and PTSD. I am still being treated after 12 years.

Google complex PTSD. Complex PTSD involves multiple incidents of triggers instead of a single incident. It is a newer diagnosis that is not included in the usual mental health diagnosis. But it is accepted by the VA. The continued threats combined with my previous injuries contributed to the depression and complex PTSD.

Response by CPO Jeffrey Bohemier made Feb 28 at 2020 2:36 AM

CPO Jeffrey Bohemier — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 02:36:03 -0500

PTSD can be caused by a number of reasons, such as watching a loved one fight and loose a battle to cancer, which happened to me over a 4 month period. I flew home from Aden, Yemen after the USS Cole had been bombed. I found out my Mom had terminal cancer the same day as the bombing, which, incidentally, was the same day the ship I was on had arrived in the Persian Gulf. We were immediately turned around and sent to protect the Cole from further attacks. Thankfully, my command recognized that I was dealing with a major problem and allowed me to seek professional counseling to get past it. For me, that was the deployment from hell, and the loss was way too personal. So yes, you can definitely get PTSD in a non-combat situation. The military didn’t invent or create PTSD. It can effect people from all different walks of life.

Response by PO1 Lyndon Thomas made Jun 23 at 2020 9:26 AM

PO1 Lyndon Thomas — Tue, 23 Jun 2020 09:26:26 -0400

PTSD can and does develop in non-combat situations. I personally know several who've suffered from PTSD in Non-Combat situations. We all act, react and respond to the many situations or circumstances we face on a daily bases. Sadly, it never gets reported diagnosed or healed in many of us. I hope and pray he's much better today.

Response by 1SG Charles Hunter made Jun 23 at 2020 6:57 PM

1SG Charles Hunter — Tue, 23 Jun 2020 18:57:10 -0400

, , , fighting against actions of fraud, waste and abuse? How is this related to some sort of trauma? Not all stress is post-traumatic.

Response by LT Trudy Shelton-Harris made Jul 2 at 2020 12:52 PM

LT Trudy Shelton-Harris — Thu, 02 Jul 2020 12:52:47 -0400

Yes, it can. I have it due to poor and demeaning leaders. Have nightmares often about being on ship with them and under their command.