Can soldiers be forced to go to college or threatened with being counseled?

2019-01-22T06:00:22-05:00

is this allowed? forcing an entire squad to go to college or else they will be counseled and be revoked days off to work

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Jan 22 at 2019 6:38 AM

2019-01-22T06:38:45-05:00

Man, I sure as hell hope so. I wish I would have thought of that when I was still in.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2019 7:15 AM

2019-01-22T07:15:14-05:00

I've never heard of this.. It is hard telling a soldier "Any branch" You must attend college. No way while I was active duty doing a job with those hours and juggling a household of kids I would have time for college. But if your COC is giving you the time to actually do the work during work hours that is actually pretty amazing. I tried back in 03 with tuition assistance after the 3rd week I couldn't keep up. But if my COC actually gave me time to do the work I might of accomplished it back then. But I would take that up with JAG because I wouldn't even know the regulation to look under to see if a COC can force you to do college. It's not a mandatory school like NCO academy so I'm not sure.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jan 22 at 2019 9:14 AM

2019-01-22T09:14:31-05:00

As others here said also, I do find that unusual, certainly, for what must clearly seem myriad obvious reasons. That being said, whether you, I, or others agree with the concept, I can comprehend some aspects of it, though the manner is clearly somewhat seemingly Draconian. Here's why, and please understand, these are obviously purely my own viewpoints, of course: First, I'm assuming what you sent in is genuine, which, of course, you should find out if is in fact the case. Second, if genuine, ten it quite logically must be based on some kind of regulation, pamphlet, or other codification under law, I'd expect. Now, whether one would wish to try to challenge it, due t inability, either for reasons of money, or family problems, or what have you, would, I think, be a debatable matter at nest. Candidly, I'd actually go and ask chaplains where you are to look into it for you, they're generally quite accustomed, as all clerics are to dealing with social-work type questions of that sort, even if the topic is rather offbeat and unusual in this case. However, that nein said, let's assume, purely for sake of argument, that the cost would be brne by a svc, such tat money wouldn't he a problem, assuming, of course, that coursework would get done, otherwise, as with e.g., VA, which does ask one for grade slips, as do industrial companies that need such proof of completion, for their corporate taxes, which was why I always laid out money myself, and would always ask for any reimbursement afterward, then, aside from money, the only other interfering factor would be family or personal stuff, combined with work stuff. Now, if as the notice said, time would be allotted for doin coursework, presumably online, I'd expect, there yes yet another objection, even if one might not necessarily wish t be viewed as an errant or truant schoolchild being rapped over the knuckles to get such coursework done. Believe me, I emtirely comprehend the mentality expressed in what you'd sent in, and can entirely comprehend your initial reaction. I can only say, when I was in, that it was quite definitely and quite literally shoved down our throats, mainly because we, esp. I, really did need it, to go for the further training. Believe me, when you're warrant or commissioned, or even in many midrange or senior enlisted I'd known, doing undergrad or grad coursework was viewed as pretty much obligatory. I can completely understand why one might not wish to be compelled in such an overtly Draconian fashion, with a Damoclean sword hanging over ones head to get it done, however, and I do genuinely think tis is a good thing, even if certainly a trifle heavy handed at first glance, that actually making college at all levels a legal requirement of svc life, regardless of seeming inconvenience, assuming money might not be a problem and time would be allotted, is, at least to my worm:s-eye way of thinking, basically a good thing. Now, I entirely grasp that many of you here aren't necessarily going to agree with my viewpoint, I expect and grant that completely, however, I do think such a rule was certainly inevitable, I !EAM, why otherwise would USAF have CCAF? Why would Navy ships have civilian faculty on board, as I've often read about and often wished I could actually participate in, if not for my total perm disability? Why would all svc facilities have educ ctrs? I mean, come on, guys, however Draconian the edict here might seem, is it all that surprising in a 21st century society where online training eases the burden of driving to and from a school? I had to get up for grad coursework given near my installation with the crows, and go at night at all hours...education, esp on an undergrad and/or grad level, like it or not, is, I'm afraid, a xoncommittant obligation of svc life, like it or not, even if an edict like this might tend to shove it down one:s throat, honest. So no, I'm not surprised, if in fact what's here is real, I can also entirely understand it, as well as, whether or not I'm disagreed with, in many ways actually applaud it, assuming that time and money aspects to minimize distraction and/or hardship have been accounted for. If real, whoever thought up such a program was clearly very forwards thinking in their viewpoint, despite the inevitable groans of dismay such an edict might initially elicit, that's my viewpoint, guys, as I said, I know many of you would take !e to task, however, also, I had to do all the prof mil educ (PME) coursework as well, and where I was they were REALLY Draconian about that, aside from hammering all lieutenants and captains where I was to get at least a !asters, I was ordered to help tutor enlisted in my unit on engineering topics, as well, as sevl were doing undergrad coursework, so trust me, guys, what's here is no great shock to me, honest...I'd he eager for any thoughts, even if disagreeing, if it's real, as I expect it likely might be, I'd certainly love to know the rules, regs, and na!e of the program involved, I'll also try to look it up if I can, as now my curiosity has certainly been piqued, if you will, I did find that one of the most interesting things I've ever seen on here, by all means, and, as I said, if real, by no means a surprise, certainly, as well.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2019 9:36 AM

2019-01-22T09:36:36-05:00

Seems a to overzealous to me in trying to help develop and improve the Soldiers. I understand the thought behind it, but to revoke days off if you don't enroll....

Response by CSM David Hopkins made Jan 22 at 2019 11:02 AM

2019-01-22T11:02:36-05:00

For the question you posed, absolutely not. Can you be counseled monthly? Yes, you should be counseled on the importance of self development and furthering your education. You should not be punished for not taking college though. The part about bringing you in on the third day off for training is against any regulation or policy I have ever seen, especially if it has nothing to do with the transgression, which in this case does not even exist.

Use your chain of command for what they are designed to do. Talk with your PSG and tell him what your SL counseled you on. If he doesn’t fix it or there is retribution from the SL, take it further up the chain until someone resolves it. Another avenue if that does not work is to talk to the IG. I would highly encourage you to speak with the chain of command first and give them an opportunity to correct the situation.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Jan 22 at 2019 11:37 AM

2019-01-22T11:37:30-05:00

Wow! Looks like the author of this little memo needs to go to college because they cannot write in complete sentences. In fact this is written at about a 3rd grade level.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Jan 22 at 2019 1:22 PM

2019-01-22T13:22:19-05:00

Hell no, Your boss isn't paying the bill, But I would recommend you take the free education while you are in because after you get out you can only use so much of your GI Bill or Forever GI BIll, I see a lot people with Masters degrees and can't afford to pay them off.

you control your career brother.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2019 2:50 PM

2019-01-22T14:50:59-05:00

Despite its best intentions, this is a Bad idea, not enforceable, and poor leadership. One of the most important things to learn in the military is when and how to pick and choose the battles you’re going to fight.

This is one the soldier should fight, and he’ll win.

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Jan 23 at 2019 9:23 AM

2019-01-23T09:23:26-05:00

This is a positive opportunity and You should make the most of it, prioritize your time Active Duty/School/ and then whatever else...people come and go but your education is yours.

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Jan 23 at 2019 9:25 AM

2019-01-23T09:25:51-05:00

I am currently enrolled in college and working on my Bachelor's Degree for Teaching and working two jobs.

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Jan 23 at 2019 9:27 AM

2019-01-23T09:27:43-05:00

Any unit could use a 92F?

Response by MSgt John Taylor made Jan 23 at 2019 9:28 AM

2019-01-23T09:28:30-05:00

At what level of supervision was this sent? Take it to his/her boss.

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Jun 6 at 2019 8:18 AM

2019-06-06T08:18:21-04:00

Wow! What a great opportunity to start/continue/finish a degree...The units I worked for never had anything like this.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2019 3:02 PM

2019-06-07T15:02:09-04:00

I wish I had that type of leader...