SGT(P) Latoya Unger 43676 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have a newly promoted SFC in my unit that does not want a promotion ceremony. I can not find any regulations that states there must be a ceremony to pin on your next rank. His 1SG is telling him that if he does not have his ceremony by next Thursday that they will initiate a Bar to Reenlistment. Now i have read AR 601-280 that states a little about discrediting the unit and the U S Army but counselings on each occurrence must be done and nothing has been given to him to that fact. Can you please give me a little more insight on this situation. Can he deny this promotion ceremony and pin on his rank? 2014-01-24T19:57:13-05:00 SGT(P) Latoya Unger 43676

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have a newly promoted SFC in my unit that does not want a promotion ceremony. I can not find any regulations that states there must be a ceremony to pin on your next rank. His 1SG is telling him that if he does not have his ceremony by next Thursday that they will initiate a Bar to Reenlistment. Now i have read AR 601-280 that states a little about discrediting the unit and the U S Army but counselings on each occurrence must be done and nothing has been given to him to that fact. Can you please give me a little more insight on this situation. Can he deny this promotion ceremony and pin on his rank?

2014-01-24T19:57:13-05:00 2014-01-24T19:57:13-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 43685

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think it should be up to the individual being promoted, but I understand when CoC's want a ceremony. It is a good thing to do and recognize the soldier on their accomplishments and future.

2014-01-24T20:06:38-05:00 2014-01-24T20:06:38-05:00 SSgt Private RallyPoint Member 43715

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There are people with an irrational fear of being in front of people.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Some people&#39;s fear be can be disabling.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; So the question now may be for him to have a one on one (if this is the issue) and try to work this out.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; SFC is a senior leader but not all leaders are the same.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;

2014-01-24T20:44:57-05:00 2014-01-24T20:44:57-05:00 TSgt Marcial Guajardo 44033

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>Hopefully the SFC recognizes that the promotion ceremony is for his peers, and the unit, not for him. It's an opportunity to build or reinforce unit cohesion. I do understand the dissatisfaction with the chain of command, especially the bullying from the 1SG. I've been in similar situations. He may also want to consider the consequences refusing the promotion ceremony may have on the unit and his role within it. His action could foster a dissention, or even polarization, in the ranks that he will have to deal with so he could be undermining his own authority and making his future more difficult that it needs to be. Choose your battles carefully and don't jump on your sword.</p>

2014-01-25T13:51:14-05:00 2014-01-25T13:51:14-05:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 44037

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I agree it should be personal preference but sometimes it is best to just "render unto Caesar" . If I were him I would be asking myself if this is really a battle worth fighting.<br>

2014-01-25T13:58:06-05:00 2014-01-25T13:58:06-05:00 LTC Yinon Weiss 44075

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I&#39;ve known people who have gotten promoted without a promotion ceremony. I have also promoted people with a very small and modest ceremony in an office. I promoted somebody to E-9 while deployed and we only had a handful of Americans there. So what? I can&#39;t prove a negative, but I am not aware of any requirements to have a promotion ceremony. On the active duty side, promotions are given by the DA, not by the unit anyway.&lt;div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;It sounds like the 1SG really wants a promotion ceremony, and it may very well be within the rights of the Commanding Officer to order one. If your SFC really wanted to fight this (which is not what I would recommend), he should ask for orders by his formal CoC to have a promotion ceremony. Preferably in writing.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;Without being directly ordered to have a promotion ceremony and subsequently not following order, a Bar to Reenslitment sounds like it&#39;s going to get the 1SG in a lot of trouble, as it would be completely unfounded to bar somebody from reenlistment without some significant documentation.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;

2014-01-25T15:26:06-05:00 2014-01-25T15:26:06-05:00 CW3 Private RallyPoint Member 44428

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Sergeant Unger, reading your later comments, this SFC needs to just man up, allow the ceremony to take place, and drive on. &amp;nbsp;Seriously refusing a promotion ceremony regardless of the situation is just sending soldiers the WRONG message. &amp;nbsp;

2014-01-26T07:13:28-05:00 2014-01-26T07:13:28-05:00 SFC William Swartz Jr 44466

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Hell the only actual promotion ceremony I had as an NCO was when I was promoted to SFC....had a falling out with my unit as a young SGT, was left on Rear D due to my wife's difficult pregnancy at the time, made the points and should have been promoted prior to their departure for a Pinon Canyon field problem, ended up pinning myself while pulling duty as BDE SDNCO....was promoted to SSG at the Ft. Riley Reception Center the morning I was due to go to my unit, the OIC and NCOIC pinned me in the office and then had me do an extra week of inprocessing in what they called SNORC(Sr NCO Refresher Course) prior to going to my unit. I finally had a "ceremony" when I was promoted to SFC by the COmmandant of the Ft. Stewart NCO Academy and my wife and mother were on hand to assist in pinning me. Have always felt it gave a little more credence to being promoted to actually be "pinned" in from of my peers, subordinates and superiors, just felt it was what right looked like as an NCO.

2014-01-26T09:42:53-05:00 2014-01-26T09:42:53-05:00 SFC Michael Hasbun 44468

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You generally get to decide who pins you anyway. Just to placate the politics of the situation, I&#39;d recommend he have the ceremony, and then have friends, family, someone he DOES respect pin him. As a SFC, nobody local&#39;s name will be on his promotion orders anyway... It&#39;s a moot point.

2014-01-26T09:47:15-05:00 2014-01-26T09:47:15-05:00 SPC Private RallyPoint Member 44471

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Leave the SFC alone.. Not going to happen but that&#39;s what should happen. Nothing in the ARs say you HAVE to have a ceremony. I know I&#39;m only an E4 but I have yet to have a ceremony. What can I say.. I&#39;m shy. I tell my command to please just privately pin me. My BN CSM (I was his PSD) pinned me in his office and that was that. No evil words about manning up, getting barred, etc. This SFC&#39;s CoC seems to have a private problem with him somewhere along the line if he&#39;s getting such threats. Empty ones at that.

2014-01-26T09:52:16-05:00 2014-01-26T09:52:16-05:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 44505

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is an interesting thread. If/when I get selected for CPT, I&#39;m not sure I would even want some of my senior leaders at the promotion ceremony, or to pin me. Who says I can&#39;t have a private ceremony with just friends and family.

2014-01-26T11:02:21-05:00 2014-01-26T11:02:21-05:00 SFC Andrew Reed 44527

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As a senior NCO, they will ALWAYS be in front giving advice, training, or giving instructions for the days' tasks. As such, the individual has some say about who can pin the new rank but not over the promotion ceremony. The ceremony has an important part in the soldier's career; I remember when I was pinned for SFC and I will never forget it! I guess the soldier could request a very small ceremony but being afraid of being in front of people is unfounded. As a senior NCO, this cannot stand in the way because they are in charge of other personnel, be it two soldiers or a platoon. 

2014-01-26T11:35:40-05:00 2014-01-26T11:35:40-05:00 1SG Steven Stankovich 44536

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SGT(P) Unger, the selection and promotion to MSG/1SG is as much of an accomplishment for the Company/Troop/Unit as it is for the individual SFC.  While I can understand the SFCs reservations in having a large ceremony that, for lack of better terms, celebrates an individual accomplishment, it is "needed" for the unit.  Everyone of those Soldiers in that unit played a part in that selection for promotion.  Give the unit the ceremony that it deserves.  It is more for "them" than it is for "you."

2014-01-26T12:10:02-05:00 2014-01-26T12:10:02-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 44643

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I hate funerals, I see no point in standing around a dead body crying when my faith says that the person is in a better place. However, being unselfish, I attend funerals because I am showing support for the loved ones who are going through a tough event and to celebrate a life.  <div><br></div><div>My point is, as a Senior leader your promotion is not only for you, but for your soldiers, others in the unit, and for those outside the unit that you invite(family, previous peers). It is a time to show those around you that "it" can be done. EVEN MORE SO if you have toxic leadership! If the leadership is truly bad, then think of how many lower enlisted could benefit from seeing a promotion even in the face of toxic leadership. Don't do it to spite your command, do it to inspire your peers and subordinates! Selfless Service! </div><div><br></div><div>Vendettas or disdain toward seniors, peers or subordinates have no place in a leaders mind. That in my opinion makes him toxic also, allowing his own personal feelings to affect an opportunity to motivate his subordinates!  While he earned his promotion and the right to have whomever he chooses pin him. He also inherits a responsibility to his soldiers, to show them how to do the right thing for the greater good, even if it means putting up with someone you dislike. </div><div><br></div><div>Vendettas and butt-hurt just create more toxicity in the ranks. Its a five minute ceremony, that will most likely be held at an end of day formation, which he will be at anyway. Why would a senior leader pass on an opportunity to inspire soldiers because of his own agenda, is the real question! <br><br /></div><div><br></div><div>A leader should be ecstatic to take this opportunity to show his soldiers that he overcame the situation, and that you can still accomplish your goals in the face of adversity and/or bad leadership. Its a moment to acknowledge what your soldiers have done, brag on your family for their support, and thank God for blessing you. An opportunity to inspire or mentor should be seized as often as possible.</div><div><br></div><div> </div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

2014-01-26T16:29:39-05:00 2014-01-26T16:29:39-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 44910

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I had this exact same discussion with my 1SG when I was a young LT.  This is the rationale he gave me...It is his promotion...but it is also for other Soldiers in the unit to see what they can strive to be with hard work and dedication.  Might as well get used to the spot light now…because he'll be in front of troops for the rest of his career, in one way, shape or form.

2014-01-26T22:45:47-05:00 2014-01-26T22:45:47-05:00 CPT Aaron Kletzing 45122

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This may be a situation where the SFC will need to decide whether this &quot;hill is worth dying on&quot; -- so, to fight this or resist it, formally or informally, could put him at odds with his CoC moving forward, and that would make life pretty painful within regs. &amp;nbsp;The situation you described here raise my eyebrows -- with the threat and all -- so I hope things don&#39;t get ugly for him, when his promotion to SFC should be honored instead of muddied up.

2014-01-27T09:08:38-05:00 2014-01-27T09:08:38-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 45183

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>When I make SFC, I want the whole dang post there.  I have worked to hard not to enjoy my 30 seconds.  </p><p> </p><p>Although he may have lost confidence with his unit and feels 1SG is trying to go a dog and pony show.  We don't know this particular SFC state of mind so to question his rationale is a bit much but believe me when I pin on SFC EVERYONE IS INVITED!!!</p><p> </p><p> </p>

2014-01-27T11:39:58-05:00 2014-01-27T11:39:58-05:00 LTC Paul Labrador 45528

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>Sounds like someone is angling for a free lunch.... ;)</p><p><br></p>

2014-01-27T22:53:10-05:00 2014-01-27T22:53:10-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 45945

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Honestly, I think it should be completely up to the SM whether or not to have one.&amp;nbsp; Point blank.&amp;nbsp; There are many reasons why a SM would choose not to have a traditional ceremony and those reasons should not be known to others.&amp;nbsp; Again, just my opinion

2014-01-28T17:48:31-05:00 2014-01-28T17:48:31-05:00 1SG Johnny Carter 45984

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Such a HOT topic!!! Let&#39;s be honest, Soldiers earn promotions and should have them at THEIR convenience. Nothing will break the morale down faster than a COC demanding when and where. Soldiers should be afforded the opportunity to plan it the way they want just like a reenlistment. Never interfere with plans that deal with family on these special occasions. These memories are a life time for them and their families. Build a fighting force that works together and has eachothers backs thru thick and thin!

2014-01-28T18:51:32-05:00 2014-01-28T18:51:32-05:00 CSM Mike Maynard 46155

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>SGT Unger,<div><br></div><div>AR 600-8-19 does mention promotion ceremonies. Table 2-1 states required actions for promotion to PV2, PFC and SPC and states in step 15 that the unit will conduct a promotion ceremony. So, SPC and below - no ones choice, must be done.</div><div><br></div><div>Oddly though, for active duty, the regulation is silent on promotion ceremonies for centralized promotions. Ceremonies are only mentioned in regards to National Guard in which it states that it is not required.</div><div><br></div><div>Now, while not required, a ceremony is due as it takes a lot of hard work and dedication and time and we should celebrate an accomplishment to SFC. I understand his reasoning, but they should find a way to be professional about this and allow themselves to be congratulated. Additionally, I'm sure they feel that their subordinates are responsible for their success, so why not dedicate the ceremony to them and for them.</div><div><br></div><div>On another note, since the regulation is silent, could the Officer invoke the "add to, but not take away" from the regulation? hmmmmmmmmm</div>

2014-01-28T22:38:54-05:00 2014-01-28T22:38:54-05:00 SFC Vernon McNabb 91517

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I concur with SSG G.  However, let me ask this, would this also apply to "mandatory" retirement ceremonies, where you are paraded in front of a bunch of people you barely know, or don't know?  That is happening this month at my location, and an officer in my BN wishes to forego the ceremony.  Certain senior leaders are saying that it's mandatory.  I asked what the repercussions are for not attending, are they going to un-retire the officer?  I understand if the unit wants to acknowledge the retiree's accomplishments, but they need to respect the request of the retiree.  I believe he/she has earned at least that much for devoting a big chunk of their life defending our nation.

2014-04-02T10:26:49-04:00 2014-04-02T10:26:49-04:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 91686

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>We had a similar situation involving a retirement ceremony once.  The SFC who was retiring didn't want to have a ceremony for it.  The BN CSM, said "Well, it's your ceremony and if you don't want it, we can't really make you do it.  But the BDE Commander isn't going to be happy.  So be ready for that..." A few weeks later the BDE Commander asked him during a briefing when his ceremony was.  The SFC told her that he wasn't having one.  The COL's eyes bulged slightly and she told him to talk to her after the briefing.  The SFC stated his reasons, the BN CSM backed him up, and even though the BDE Commander was displeased, there wasn't much she could do about it.  There were no threats or counselings (hard to threaten a guy with much if he is about to retire) and he retired quietly the way he wanted to.  I know promotion ceremonies are both for the individual and the unit, but leaders should exercise tact when faced with a Soldier who doesn't want a ceremony.  Threats to do it a certain way can truly ruin the spirit of the event and everyone will know what is really going on. 

2014-04-02T13:15:08-04:00 2014-04-02T13:15:08-04:00 SFC Gary Fox 92311

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is an interesting discussion. &amp;nbsp;My son was promoted to SFC this past Feb. &amp;nbsp;He&#39;s currently serving as a Drill SGT at Ft. Jackson. &amp;nbsp;I remember when he was an E-4 and stationed at Ft. Lee. &amp;nbsp;He was getting promoted to SGT and wanted me to come up and pin him. &amp;nbsp;I told to just give me two days notice and I would be there. &amp;nbsp;His 1SG went up to him the next day and told him the CO wanted to conduct his promotion ceremony that afternoon at final formation. &amp;nbsp;He told the 1SG he wanted me to be there to pin his new rank on him and wanted to do it in two days. &amp;nbsp;The 1SG told him if the CO wanted to do it that afternoon, then it was going to be that afternoon.&lt;div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;My son was pretty ticked off when he called me and told me what was going on. &amp;nbsp;I told him to use this as an example of what kind of leader not to be. &amp;nbsp;The 1SG could have gone to the CO and told him the circumstances and said two days wouldn&#39;t hurt. &amp;nbsp;If the CO wanted to hold the ceremony to boost his unit morale (if that was the case, he had some issues) it would have served better for his Soldiers to see a parent there to pin his NCO son; especially since that parent was a SR NCO himself.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;What should have been a very happy day for a new NCO, turned out to be a very disappointing one. &amp;nbsp;Someone took pictures of my son being promoted and he had a very angry look on his face.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;div&gt;I&#39;m sure if the 1SG had gone to the CO and said, &quot;Sir, SPC Fox would like to have his promotion ceremony on Friday because it would allow his father, SFC Fox to be here to pin his rank on him,&quot; the CO probably wouldn&#39;t have had a problem with it. &amp;nbsp;&lt;/div&gt;

2014-04-02T23:26:18-04:00 2014-04-02T23:26:18-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 193956

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Ok so let me throw a wrench in this question. Let's say it is opposite. The Soldier is told there has to be a ceremony and the Soldier is willing. The ceremony is never scheduled and the Soldier is left hanging. Self pinning prompts the implication that you are disrespecting the leaders of your unit.

2014-08-04T12:44:29-04:00 2014-08-04T12:44:29-04:00 SFC Gary Fox 377525

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I had received a copy of my promotion orders a few days before they went into effect. On the effective date, I showed up to work with the new rank pinned on my uniform and the orders in my pocket. The 1SG asked me why I was impersonating a SFC. I told him I wasn't and pulled out my orders and showed him. He said the orders didn't make me promoted. He said I wasn't officially promoted until the orders were officially "published" at a promotion ceremony. I told him the orders said the effective date of promotion was 1 Sep and it was indeed 1 Sep and on this date I started receiving pay for the new rank. <br /><br />He then got the CO to order me to put back on the old rank. They did arrange for a promotion ceremony to take place that afternoon with the TF CDR pinning my rank on. <br /><br />When a Soldier gets promoted, it should be his/her decision on whether they want a promotion ceremony or not. I know the whole idea is to promote the Soldier in front of their peers to promote morale. Do you really get that when you have Soldiers standing out in the freezing cold or high heat temps waiting 20 minutes beyond when it was supposed to take place because CDR's are pretty much late for the formations they call.

2014-12-19T11:55:16-05:00 2014-12-19T11:55:16-05:00 CW4 Private RallyPoint Member 489743

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I know this is old, but I find it completely irrational that we would entrust an NCO with a promotion and then bar him from reenlisting. So you are worthy of greater responsibility nut we don&#39;t want you to stay around any more.

2015-02-21T13:13:57-05:00 2015-02-21T13:13:57-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 489780

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I personally wanted everyone at mine! I worked hard to get it, but some people are much more humble. I wouldn't deny him that right. I would encourage him to have a small one, but it is his accomplishment.

2015-02-21T13:37:51-05:00 2015-02-21T13:37:51-05:00 MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member 489805

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is also a concern regarding award ceremonies. What that NCO fails to understand, the promotion is not just about him/her. Yes, it is in their honor, but it is also for many various reasons. <br /><br />Lest we forget about the whole tradition thing; honoring the thousands before him and all. It's also about the Soldiers and NCOs he leads. It's about setting the right example. It's about showing younger Soldiers what a senior leader is suppose to be, what 'right' looks like. Be proud. Hand off that SSG rank to the SGT that shows the most promise. <br /><br />The time, 'how,' and the 'when' has always been about the promotee. But, the 'why' is so much more. A senior NCO should not need that explained to him. A senior NCO shouldn't be forced to do so. Btw, if the 1SG wants to order the promotion, it's well within his legal rights. It is not an unlawful order. Digging around in ARs or DA Pams simply to fight something like a ceremony is minutia.<br /><br />I'm a little disappointed, as a leader, that a senior NCO is looking for ways to sidestep tradition. As a former SFC, I'm honestly embarrassed. I was proud to get promoted in front of my unit, my team, my family. I didn't earn it all on my own. So, I wasn't selfish about the small celebratory moment regarding my promotion. I knew it was not simply about going through the motions.<br /><br />The NCO can just get pinned, say thank you, and set the example and exceed the standard for his junior Soldiers.

2015-02-21T13:57:06-05:00 2015-02-21T13:57:06-05:00 CSM Private RallyPoint Member 489940

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Short answer: The SFC does not have to have a ceremony, nor can the 1SG bar the SFC. The bigger question I have is why doesn&#39;t the Sergeant want one? Usually, when Soldiers don&#39;t want awards or promotion ceremonies within the unit, it signals a huge issue with the command climate there. I mean, if you love who you work with and where you work, why wouldn&#39;t you want those same people to share in the joy, unless....<br /><br />The CSM needs to get involved to explain that the ceremony is about the Army tradition just as much as the Seregant&#39;s individual accomplishment. I didn&#39;t want a CoR as a 1SG, but, some great leader explained to me the reason for it, that it was more about the Army than me. Maybe the CSM can convince him more than the 1SG trying to bar him. But, I still recommend looking at the command climate. It may uncover bigger issues than just a ceremony.

2015-02-21T15:33:11-05:00 2015-02-21T15:33:11-05:00 LTC Geoff Metcalf 490202

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Since when does any NCO get to tell 1SGT what ceremony they will or won't attend?

2015-02-21T19:44:26-05:00 2015-02-21T19:44:26-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 490243

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>OK here is my .02 worth. I personally don&#39;t care for MY promotion or award ceremonies to be presented in front of the unit or to even have a ceremony. <br /><br />I have been scolded and publicly berated for this preference. Just let me pin on or give me the green folder and lets get back to the task at hand. <br /><br />I believe it should be up to the Soldier who has earned it. To threaten the Soldier with a bar to reenlistment or berate makes a statement about the ego of the leader involved.

2015-02-21T20:19:52-05:00 2015-02-21T20:19:52-05:00 GySgt Private RallyPoint Member 490344

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I got a note on my iPhone that I down voted this. Heck, I don't know what happened, but if there is a down vote it was unintended.

2015-02-21T21:31:33-05:00 2015-02-21T21:31:33-05:00 SGT James Mosley 490347

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There is no regulation that states that you must have a promotion ceremony to receive the next rank. It has more to do with tradition then anything else.

2015-02-21T21:34:28-05:00 2015-02-21T21:34:28-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 490415

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>My personal position is that it should be the choice of the Soldier. Of course there are many good points about why it should be done formally. I agree with those positions more.<br /><br />The Soldier should be excited that the Command is behind him. I am in a place where they do not take the promotion to &quot;SFC&quot; seriously. They treat it like any other promotion. I feel that is a discredit to the rank. It is a big deal to go from SPC to SGT and likewise from SSG to SFC. Each should be recognized properly.<br /><br />If not properly done then the Soldiers within the Unit will most likely not respect the individual or the rank. I do not have a problem with morale as an individual but I can see where younger Soldiers in the Unit do. My Soldiers have told me that they were prevented from going to their own promotion ceremony.<br /><br />I recently got the Honor to promote a great Female Soldier within my Platoon who before the ceremony asked me, &quot;How do I present myself as she had not seen one or had been a part of one?&quot; I was flabbergasted, this Soldier has been with this Unit for almost three years. <br /><br />In any case, the Individual in question might not want to ruffle feathers on this one and respect that the Command wants to Honor them.

2015-02-21T22:21:52-05:00 2015-02-21T22:21:52-05:00 SGT Jon Henri Matteau 490423

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have never heard of discipline over not having a ceremony. Many people would be in trouble for field promotions.

2015-02-21T22:28:43-05:00 2015-02-21T22:28:43-05:00 SSG Cory Bacon 490444

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Since enlisting, I&#39;ve ranked from E1 to E3, but because of weather postponing drill, my own ship date, and some other factors, I never had a ceremony to officially &#39;promote&#39; me. I&#39;m still just as much promoted, but no ceremony was necessary. I would say that as long as the promotion is approved and in the system, the soldier should have a right to refuse a formal ceremony for whatever reason. That being said, I would&#39;ve liked to have a ceremony, but it isn&#39;t a &#39;necessity&#39;. Just my two cents; the actual UCMJ may vary, but if you&#39;ve looked into it without finding anything, there may not be an actual regulation in place.

2015-02-21T22:38:28-05:00 2015-02-21T22:38:28-05:00 COL Charles Williams 491123

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Well first off Kudos to you for 1st checking the regulations. The answer is it should be his call. Good luck with a bar for refusing to have a ceremony. <br /><br />I think, as a rule, we like Soldiers to have ceremonies, so we can publicly celebrate their accomplishments as a testament of what right look. The ceremony (yes/no), the location, the presiding officer/NCO (promoter) should be the decision of the Soldier. <br /><br />For me, I would always prefer no ceremony. But, at the same time I was told, and now I know, if nothing else they are important to your family first and foremost, and then your friends and colleagues. <br /><br />Several times I wanted no promotion event. I was promoted to LTC at 1700 on Friday, specially because I knew only the folks really wanted to attend would come. In that organization (MACOM Staff), promotions were a call for mandatory attendance, and most came for the free break and free food. <br /><br />When I retired, I just wanted to fade away... As I did not want to have a big show, or more likely face the fact that my days were done. I tried to avoid, but luckily several GOs made me, (I am sure they would not have, if I really really was against it) or rather convinced me it was the right thing to do. After that event (which was done right) was done, I realized how important it was for my family. <br /><br />Good luck with that Bar.

2015-02-22T10:15:13-05:00 2015-02-22T10:15:13-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 491152

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><br />I have read most of the comments. The majority's consent of the ceremony purpose is to inspire other Soldiers in the unit. Therefore, I have come up with a compromise/better solution. <br /><br />The ceremony should be held at the accountability formation in the morning. Afterward, the unit will have the rest of the day off to honor the promotion. I can't think of anything else that will inspire the Soldiers more. Think what the Soldiers would tell their families when they asked why the Soldiers had the day off. At the same time, I can't think of any reason why the SFC would refuse having such ceremony.

2015-02-22T10:48:13-05:00 2015-02-22T10:48:13-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 491173

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Wow, interesting question. My personal belief is this SFC should have the promotion ceremony of not for him then for his fellow NCOs and Soldiers. Promotion ceremonies are a time honored tradition in our Corps and should be celebrated. On the flip side of it, it truly is a personal preference. His LES and whatever other documents will say E7 regardless of a ceremony or not. I also it&#39;s a bit overboard to initiate a bar.

2015-02-22T11:02:07-05:00 2015-02-22T11:02:07-05:00 SGM Erik Marquez 491247

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>That 1SG is way off base, no there is no requirement for a dog and pony show.. none whatsoever, in fact unless Im mistaken, there is no requirement to present the rank at all.. Once the orders are signed, the rank is effective the day the orders say so. <br /><br />Is there good reason to promote in front of the unit?.. Yes, absolutely.<br />Is it required no.<br />Is it up to the SM being promoted, well yes and no.. the SM can be ordered to be in the uniform prescribed at the duty location directed. But doing so against the wishes of the SM does none of the positive things the public promotion ceremony with publishing of the orders provides, so they cancel each other out if not make it worse.

2015-02-22T11:53:26-05:00 2015-02-22T11:53:26-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 491342

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>What possible reason would someone NOT want to have a promotion ceremony, especially for a SFC who should be espousing Army drill and ceremony, and especially by leading by example?

2015-02-22T13:16:48-05:00 2015-02-22T13:16:48-05:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 492750

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have never seen or heard of this. Bar someone for a ceremony. I think there has to be something more too it. <br /><br />When I picked up SSG I didn&#39;t have a promotion ceremony. I just put it on myself and called it a day. I did however lose a lot of respect for many in that unit. I was in a STB and was promoted. My new duty assignment was to be a Squad Leader in another Battalion. Being in the HHC of a STB I didn&#39;t have many allies. As being one of the few combat arms there I was the minority. I would flip out often over many things. I was your typical Infantry SGT. If someone was dicked up I let them know. If they did it again I let their leadership know. But people didn&#39;t want to know what was wrong and it was pretty much accepted to get the job done any means possible. It was my last drill there and I had my orders in hand. My unit said they would do it at final formation. At the final formation there was nothing. They dismissed and said they forgot. I know I didn&#39;t see eye to eye with my own leadership. My PSG loved me but beyond that it was another story.

2015-02-23T09:22:16-05:00 2015-02-23T09:22:16-05:00 COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM 492950

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I am not aware of any requirements that a person must have a promotion ceremony but a few thoughts since most of the comments thus far concern the individual and support of an individual's right to do what they prefer:<br />- Retirement ceremony. Mandatory on Fort Leonard Wood. LTC and below are to participate in the monthly mass retirement ceremony. COLs and above can have a separate ceremony. Exceptions to policy have to be submitted in writing. Part of the thought process (I assume) is that many Soldiers do not want to make a big deal out of a retirement ceremony. They may regret that decision a few years later so the CoC decision is to make it mandatory.<br />- Retirement and promotion ceremonies are not just for the individual. These ceremonies are also for the unit and for others in the unit for a variety of reasons. Failure to conduct these ceremonies would miss these targets of opportunities and reasons. Simply stated, if we do not make a big deal out of retirements and promotions then eventually our subordinates will value them less as well.<br />- I am not saying a chain of command should force the issue as described by SGT P Unger but a CoC should educate and inform individuals about why these ceremonies are important and why they are bigger than just the individual being honored.

2015-02-23T10:36:36-05:00 2015-02-23T10:36:36-05:00 SGM Mikel Dawson 493039

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When I was promoted to SFC, I was told when and where it would happen. At the time I was trying to get my team loaded up and deployed for our mission. I HAD to take two hrs off just so some DOA dude could have a photo op of pinning my Stripes on. I didn&#39;t even know the guy. I guess my CDR got some brownie points as well. &#39;<br /><br />My take is he should be pinned the way he wants. He&#39;s the one earning the stripes.<br /><br />Oh and by the way, I never had a retirement ceremony. Wasn&#39;t my idea, just the way it happened. That was one I&#39;d have liked to have.

2015-02-23T11:17:47-05:00 2015-02-23T11:17:47-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 833763

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I may have been out for a while, but when I was in this wasn't an issue. If you didn't want to have the Dog and Pony show for a promotion, it didn't happen.

2015-07-22T01:37:48-04:00 2015-07-22T01:37:48-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 875983

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have read every post on this topic. There are a lot of good points that are made. Here is what happened to me in Dec 2011. I was stationed in Kandahar. I made the E6 list one of my soldiers made the E5 list. It was always my impression that a NCO promotion was NCO business. I was looking forward to my squad leader to pin me as he did for my 5 and I was gonna pin my soldier. Well that never happened. My 1sg at the time came to me and told me MG McConvil are CG was flying in and he want to pin us in a ceremony. My first thought was hell know this is NCO business and I was a little upset that my squad leader wasn't pinning me. Well as I thought about it before the ceremony I to came to the realization it wasn't about me it was about the troops. Are troops are the ones that need to see this they are the one who test you everyday and they are the one who can make you or break you. Well I had a little fun with my ceramony. I was pinned by a MG. And he was coined by me with a Delta Co 7-101 coin. What a great experience.

2015-08-09T08:13:27-04:00 2015-08-09T08:13:27-04:00 SGT Jerrold Pesz 916047

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The closest that I ever came to having a promotion ceremony was the CO calling me to his office and handing me a copy of the orders. The only ones there were me, the CO, the 1st Sergeant and the company clerk. I had to go buy my own stripes and nobody pinned on anything. In fact I only saw a couple of people have ceremonies the entire time that I was in.

2015-08-25T00:41:09-04:00 2015-08-25T00:41:09-04:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 939403

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>U know i got a similiar question to ask. About this its more so an alaract message came out on the 13 aug 15 and it states u must have wlc completed to attain rank of sergeant. starting effective date of jan 2016. I made points have my orders, and my erb is updated and my coc said they wont promote me till after i finish wlc. But the reason i wanted to get promoted is because of the person who i want to pin my rank on has a past due pregnant wife. But they said no. Now since i have the orders, and the erb is updated can i put on my rank myself. Then when i graduate wlc have my old unit (on post transfer)pin me.

2015-09-03T21:09:05-04:00 2015-09-03T21:09:05-04:00 SGT Scott Bell 943677

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>no

2015-09-05T16:18:19-04:00 2015-09-05T16:18:19-04:00 Sgt Spencer Sikder 943831

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It's been many years since I was promoted in the Marine Corps, so when my friend got promoted in the 82nd, I was thrilled to witness the ceremony. I was very proud of my friend. It was if I recall correctly the first time his wife was able to attend one of these ceremonies as well. However, what shocked me was that it was his responsibility to provide lunch or treats (don't recall precisely, thought it was lunch) to the unit. And boy, were they standing in line for that. I indicated at the time that I thought the process of providing the treat was defeating the purpose of the promotion as he won't see an increase in his pay until sometime after the bill has been paid. <br /><br />In federal civil service and in my civilian jobs, we didn't have a big what to do about promotions. People would compliment or congratulate the person promoted, but usually, it was just another day. <br /><br />Some people don't care for the public (recognition) humiliation. Their wish should be respected. I can see the immediate supervisor or manager taking the promoted individual to lunch to thank them for their efforts which garnered the promotion.

2015-09-05T17:31:39-04:00 2015-09-05T17:31:39-04:00 2LT Earl Dean 1117987

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>promotion ceremony's are nothing more than political dog and pony shows for those above the rank being presented. Its a way for paper pushers that are interested in gaining rank without fulfilling their duties to look as if they are the best in their field. Its also a way for those above them in rank to show the units as a hole they have done their jobs and promoted someone that did a good job! Personally I didn't like the pony shows either! When I became an E6 it was in the field and the unit commander and a 2Lt Gave it to me! When I became an E7 My commanding Gen at the time had me come to his Tent and he pinned me with my SFC strips. I was more proud of those than anything. Gen Kenneth Himpsile 38th Infantry Divison The week after that he died on active duty. If someone is being forced to go thru the show! Do it or risk political harassment, ( Oh wait) ( they dont play politics in the Army now do They!) Good luck

2015-11-18T22:53:52-05:00 2015-11-18T22:53:52-05:00 MCPO Private RallyPoint Member 1201718

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Unfortunately, for the Army, the regulation is a bit confusing, AR 600-8-19, para7–13. Promotion ceremonies and certificates, says that the command WILL have a ceremony, then goes on to say that &quot;Commanders will make every effort to promote Soldiers in formal ceremonies...&quot; which makes it sound optional.<br /><br />In my career, I have heard this argument - and I agree with it, wholeheartedly: The ceremony isn&#39;t for the person getting pinned - it&#39;s for the subordinates that aspire to get promoted and who respect the promotee. <br /><br />SFC - suck it up and give your people something for which they should strive. It&#39;s a real accomplishment - let them see that it IS possible!<br /><br /><a target="_blank" href="http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_8_19.pdf">http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_8_19.pdf</a> (page 82!) <div class="pta-link-card answers-template-image type-default"> <div class="pta-link-card-picture"> </div> <div class="pta-link-card-content"> <p class="pta-link-card-title"> </p> <p class="pta-link-card-description"> v ÑjÄpÉF+µ+øÁÀýbÜ``o/CFãJ9ãøi: %x$@à # endstream endobj 713 0 obj endobj 714 0 obj endobj 715 0 obj stream hÞSÛnÛ0ýþ@mÙ@ iëfÀºsÑ ú9ZbÀµ[¿I_êõe)òòJAU$X-Aiò4ps#îá¡.xÅH _k·MÀdäö][Äþ.Oþ^ÖkÄ|ÙÃOWGPØÇâäÅÓ$ÚËPgî/}pn*nÝeç«Óy8Ýù¡ÒÒv§tMXÙvÛ^+e%ÖuJâuD¿pñ{õbçëßT[mÛú(WWå9Õ(Ýè#VItÜUÐvâû((6Õn]ï òû}S¶Çª9oUiújçUÛëÀèwÍù9pâ!*ÆåýúHQoñ1û¶)c ÄqÂôjlÓ&amp;</p> </div> <div class="clearfix"></div> </div>

2015-12-28T23:20:23-05:00 2015-12-28T23:20:23-05:00 LCDR Private RallyPoint Member 1202297

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If the SFC wants to include family or certain timing/elements to his ceremony...by all means, he deserves that consideration from the COC. However, it sounds as though the SFC is objecting to a ceremony in general?

2015-12-29T08:55:24-05:00 2015-12-29T08:55:24-05:00 Maj Private RallyPoint Member 1204833

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Someone wants to bar his reenlistment because he does not want a promotion ceremony? Seriously, are people just asking for IG and Congressional complaints? No, you cannot bar a reenlistment because someone doesn&#39;t want to have a promotion ceremony. The only reason I ever had a promotion ceremony was to feed people and help them have 1/2 day off of work. :)

2015-12-30T08:01:02-05:00 2015-12-30T08:01:02-05:00 SPC Private RallyPoint Member 1218265

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I turned down the ceremony when I pinned E-4. To me, it wasn't as big a deal. I will take one for 5 though. I may turn down one for 6, but get one for 7. I want the ceremonies for the actual progressive steps. Junior to NCO, NCO to Senior, Senior to Command (1SG, CSM, etc). I don't really want recognition for the middle steps. To me, they aren't as big a deal. No one in my Chain said anything about me turning down the ceremony, so I can only assume it is allowed. I mean, I don't really see how they can mandate a ceremony for you that you don't want. Just pin that rank on and move out.

2016-01-06T12:24:11-05:00 2016-01-06T12:24:11-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 1245576

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Great question! <br />I'm on the PPRL for E-6 and was wondering if I could decline on that as well.

2016-01-19T14:47:37-05:00 2016-01-19T14:47:37-05:00 SFC William Jones 1612836

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I came across this thread researching how other soldiers have managed this issue. I've made it this far in my military career by just receiving my promotion orders in email. No ceremonies. (The same with awards.) No fuss, no muss. However, I have religious reasons most everyone in my chain of command understands that forbid any sort of public recognition. The only time it was an issue was when I was recently promoted to E7, but once I explained my position it was no longer an issue.

2016-06-09T12:36:30-04:00 2016-06-09T12:36:30-04:00 TSgt Private RallyPoint Member 3543919

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I’ve been promoted twice at my first base, and I’ve never had a promotion ceremony. Maybe it’s because my squadrons haven’t cared, or maybe I was supposed to ask for them? Regardless, I’ve never had one.

2018-04-14T19:12:52-04:00 2018-04-14T19:12:52-04:00 COL R. Bruce Chisholm 3881071

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>For Major, Lieutenant Colonel and Colonel, I dropped off my BDUs, DCUs and ACU (caps only) to the nice lady at PX tailor shop to change the rank. She said, “Congradulations, these will be ready in one week.”

2018-08-14T21:50:31-04:00 2018-08-14T21:50:31-04:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 3881143

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is a dumb pissing contest. Have the ceremony and play the game and get the crap over with.

2018-08-14T22:41:28-04:00 2018-08-14T22:41:28-04:00 2LT Earl Dean 4538880

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>There is no rules I know of that say you have to have a ceremony. I have gained rank in the middle of the jungle and we&#39;ll in offices and of course during a ceremony. YES you can turn down a promotion, most people don&#39;t because they think it will slow any other promotion they be able to get. I have even given bank officers rank to stay an NCO. I had to take a cut in pay to become an officer, monetarily it made no sense to take the rank at that time.

2019-04-12T19:41:49-04:00 2019-04-12T19:41:49-04:00 CSM Darieus ZaGara 5378513

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is old. Any leader that does not wish to be properly recognized by ceremony and tradition probably should seek employment elsewhere. The very foundation of the military is based on ceremony and tradition. If that weren’t enough, regulation immaterial, and order by a senior person is all that it takes. If it is not illegal or immoral it must be followed. I would support a command decision that Bars a supervisor (not a leader) who fails to follow an order. Nor would I want a person like this In My unit. Thank you all for your service. Merry Christmas.

2019-12-25T08:19:56-05:00 2019-12-25T08:19:56-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 5515321

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I&#39;ve been in 35 years. 19 enlisted and 16 commissioned. I&#39;ve held 14 different ranks. USAF: A1C-TSgt. Army: SPC-SFC and 2LT-LTC. The closest I&#39;ve ever come to a promotion ceremony was when the company CO brought me to the front of formation and colored in my butter bar with a black sharpie when I made 1LT.

2020-02-03T15:27:18-05:00 2020-02-03T15:27:18-05:00 2014-01-24T19:57:13-05:00