Can the Army force you to buy Unit T-Shirts?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:36:36 -0500

Is the Army able to force you to buy Unit T-Shirts? I know in AR670-1 it says I am able to wear civilian attire off installation with my PT Shorts but what about during PT? If it is the Uniform for that day of PT then would it be required I buy it and better yet if I owned it wouldn't I have the choice not to wear it if it is not required to be purchased?

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Jan 14 at 2015 5:54 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:54:54 -0500

- I am not tracking that the Army as an institution can force you to buy a unit T shirt.
- I am not tracking that your unit (CO/BN) can force you to buy a unit T-shirt.
- Your unit (CO/BN) can highly encourage you to buy a unit T-Shirt.
- What is the difference between force and highly encourage? The same difference in "wait a minute" depending upon what side of the bathroom door you happen to be on.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 5:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:56:41 -0500

That is a valid IG complaint. You cannot be forced to buy something.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jan 14 at 2015 6:02 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 18:02:21 -0500

I say choose your battles. $10 of "espirit de corps" can save you $1,000 in headaches.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 6:03 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 18:03:37 -0500

No they can't. The notion is comical, though. I'd love to see that counseling, because that command team would be relieved faster than FSU in the CFB playoffs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 6:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 18:08:58 -0500

No Units should not force you to buy T- Shirts or what have you. Now in the name of espirit de corps, you ought to buy one if it is about uniformity, but you should not be penalized if you dont buy one. It should be your choice and yours alone.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 7:33 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 19:33:51 -0500

No they cannot force you to buy unit clothing. If they want you to have it the unit pays for it thru fridge funds, fund raisers, etc..

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Jan 14 at 2015 7:34 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 19:34:04 -0500

Is it legal? no...does it happen, all the time. Especially in the new unit morale shirt on friday thing.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 7:46 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 19:46:20 -0500

Can they make you buy it? NO.
Do you really want to be the guy who is different? NO.
Thing is, you should WANT to be proud of your unit and sport its gear.
If you want to stand on principle, be prepared to hear all about it every time there is a battalion/ company PT event.

I'd say choose your battles. This protest will get you heartburn disproportionate to the point you are trying to make.

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Jan 14 at 2015 8:03 PM

SPC James Mcneil — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 20:03:24 -0500

They can "encourage" you strongly to do so, but I've never had any unit force me to buy a shirt.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Jan 14 at 2015 10:05 PM

1SG Cameron M. Wesson — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:05:59 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member James, As you have heard no they cannot. As you have also heard... Pick your battles. This to is wise counsel. Yes... You will be encouraged in some units... Some will truely simply encourage with no reprecussions... Others will not and will highly encourage and make it very uncomfortable. No, your annual clothing allowance is not suppose to be used for there purchase also... That money is to replace your initial issue and update your "barracks bag" with new items.

Now for some Honesty!

That " highly encourage position" is nonsense and anyone over the rank of SGT and 2LT knows it. Units can make life unbearable for a soldier who simply doesn't wasn't to buy one.

I watched it so many times I promised it wouldn't happen in the companies I was 1SG for... and it didn't. Pride has nothing to do with it. It stems from not wanting to burdening a soldier with another questionable expense... As was a burden on many of us. Don't believe me... Then you're fooling yourself. I had a whole drawer full of "esprit de corps" that were worn once a week... They did make a cool quilt my mother in law made me a few years ago though. What gave me pride in my unit was the leadership and the team... Not a T-shirt! If you need a T-shirt for espirt then your unit has a larger challenge.

On one occasion I relented. The CO of my second company really wanted the soldiers to have a unit T-shirt for OIF the original. I made my position clear and he agreed and asked if i knew a way where the soIdiers didnt have to pay. I managed through a series of highly creative resourcing methods (don't ask I'm not telling) to purchase 400 at no cost to the soldiers... the CO and I coughed up $50 ea. But not a big issue. We were able to give each soldier a T-shirt and the bulk to the supply sergeant for "free issue" to new soldiers as they came in. Which was another stipulation... There would be no elitism.

I commend any leadership team that doesn't burden a soldier with this questionable expense... And when you are apart that leadership team... Remember. Don't let your integrity get bruised with that "highly encouraged position".

I will now shut up and get off my soap box.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2015 10:07 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:07:15 -0500

Why not? Why resist? No one can make you spend your money. AR670-1 does not exclude unit shirts so if you have one or are given one you can be ordered to wear it.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jan 14 at 2015 10:48 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 14 Jan 2015 22:48:10 -0500

No, but lets face it, you loose that much (what every the T shirt costs) in pocket change in 3 months time.

Esprit De Corps, Unit loyalty, being part of a "Family" would normally warrant , ie justify me buying into a simple shirt once and awhile.

If unit members are not wiling / interested in doing so,,,,, Id be asking,, what the heck is wrong with that unit.....and who needs to get relieved?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 1:15 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 01:15:52 -0500

No! Your Unit Morale Shirt may be purchase if you want it. In most cases, people vote for them. It is highly encouraged for the unit/platoon/flight to look the same. But that's why you have regulations to rule over that.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 10:19 AM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:19:54 -0500

Ask yourself, "Is this the hill I want to die on?"

There will surely be far more important issues in your career upon which to stand on principle, yet I think this could be a house of cards in the grandest scheme of things.

Plus esprit de corps!! :)

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2015 2:48 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jan 2015 14:48:42 -0500

Technically no, but practically yes. It all depends on how much negative attention you're okay with receiving from your chain of command. Personally, I'd just buy the shirts and be done with it.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 25 at 2015 6:36 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sun, 25 Jan 2015 18:36:36 -0500

Try buying a unit t-shirt and some punk who never paid gets your t-shirt.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2015 6:46 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Jan 2015 18:46:33 -0500

Take it out of the clothing maintanance allowance you get yearly and it will feel as though Uncle Sam bought it for you, right?

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jan 25 at 2015 7:35 PM

SPC Stewart Smith — Sun, 25 Jan 2015 19:35:42 -0500

My first unit, I gladly purchased my one. I wanted to own it.
My second unit I was told I had to purchase one, and that made me not want to purchase one, so I didn't. Every time there was a company run where the attire was the unit shirt, I had to wear my PT shirt. I have no regrets.
There's something about being told you have to do something, when you do not have to, that really irritates me. I realize it's very petty.

*Edit*
I must also say that I did not like the leadership at my second duty station. My first unit was awesome. Leadership was great. There were very few days that I didn't enjoy my time there. I can't say the same for my unit in El Paso.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made May 17 at 2016 12:54 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Tue, 17 May 2016 12:54:27 -0400

As weird as it sounds, it's the other way around for me. Usually only leadership in my unit wear morale shirts. I usually do anyway you know, for pride. I am constantly made fun of from my peers because they think I'm sucking up.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2016 11:58 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 May 2016 11:58:49 -0400

like has been said, pick your battles. When I was in the ARNG, it wasn't "mandatory" that you belong to the NG officers association. However, it was very thinly veiled implication that failure to pay your dues would reflect poorly on your decision making ability on your next OER.

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Oct 10 at 2017 6:42 PM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 18:42:30 -0400

At WIC many years ago we were highly encouraged to buy class T shirts. We all did willingly. Easy to tell which class a candidate was in based on T shirt color. Blue class, gold class, and the best for last red class !

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 5:45 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 17:45:03 -0400

Dont buy the shirts from those commies save the money. How can they track you down to harrass if you dont have on the unit shirt? Plus that 10 or 15 bucks is a lap dance and beer.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 5 at 2018 9:24 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 21:24:20 -0400

Good question and failure will keep you from ever making E5. Unit T-shirts are for morale and spirit de corps. I've benn retired 20 + years and I still wear most of mine with pride. Do you really have the intestinal fortitude and low mentality to tell your 1SG/CO, CSM/LTC that " I don't have to buy it!" I never ever recall anybody intentionally looking for a reason to get on my shitlist!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 9:24 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 21:24:32 -0400

You're over thinking this. Buy the shirt. There will be more important battles, choose them wisely.

Response by SPC Greg Burnett made Apr 5 at 2018 10:49 PM

SPC Greg Burnett — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 22:49:52 -0400

Be a grown up, quit sniveling, and buy a shirt. Buy 5 shirts. If you're like..., everyone else, you waste more money than that every month.

Response by LtCol George Carlson made Apr 6 at 2018 2:16 AM

LtCol George Carlson — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 02:16:53 -0400

Leaders who see the unit morale value and then require (more of less) the soldier or Marine to pay? Somehow, leadership got lost in this. As the MOI at an NROTC Unit, I wanted my drill team to have the "unit morale" value so I paid for the t-shirts, the screen printing, and the individual marching positions on the back. It was a strain as a Captain stationed in LA, but asking/requiring college kids, or soldier or Marines, (especially the "college program" midshipmen who were not on scholarship) to pay? No way, Jose. If it wasn't important enough for me to bear the financial burden, it sure as hell was no important enough to make Midshipman Glotz (or Spec 4 Batelli or LCpl Baseplate) to pay. I applaud the 1stSgt who worked a way to make them available to all without financial burden on any but the CO and him. That, folks, is LEADERSHIP.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 5:39 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 05:39:01 -0400

No they can’t but they can make it tough not to. So stand your ground and don’t buy it. You shouldn’t have to conform to their demands. While they are wearing their unit shirts you wear a tie dye shirt. That will show them! Sometimes it’s just easier to conform. You fall on your sword at every fight and you will bleed to death.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 9:18 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 09:18:47 -0400

Short answer...NO.
But what is the root of your opposition?
1. If it's a financial thing, I'm sure someone would purchase for you, however, this would prompt some financial counseling if this would break the bank.
2. Do you hate the unit your in? Are there issues, what is it that would keep you from wanting to represent them? Is there something there that needs to be addressed?
3. Are you just standing your ground since they said you had to, and you know they can't make you? Like many said pick your battles...how about quoting the fact that you cant be required to purchase it as you purchase it "to support the unit".
Either way I'm sure this shirt is not the real issue, and you need to figure that out.

Enjoy your new shirt ;)

Response by PFC Elijah Rose made Apr 6 at 2018 1:30 PM

PFC Elijah Rose — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 13:30:10 -0400

When I was boot csmp the second time around my company gave everyone the impression that the unit t-shirt was required for the fun run. I and many others simply ignored this and faced no repercussions.
I don't know what your situation is, but that was my experience.

Response by Cpl Phillip Brame made Apr 6 at 2018 1:52 PM

Cpl Phillip Brame — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 13:52:50 -0400

No they can not make you purchase a unit T-shirt, but why would you not want to purchase it? Purchasing that t shows unit pride and cohesion are you not proud of your unit and don’t you want to be part of the team. If the answer is no to either of those you my friend have joined the wrong organization.

Response by SFC Francisco Rosario made Apr 6 at 2018 2:21 PM

SFC Francisco Rosario — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 14:21:30 -0400

The simple answer is "NO", but you should make an effort to be part of the unit in every way. It wont hurt you nor will it break the bank.

You need to realize that by not getting the unit t-shirt, you could be seen or labled as a Soldier who does not support the unit. It may not seem right to you, but when you ask for some kind of support or some kind of schooling opportunity it may be denied. Im not saying that it is right, but it is best to stay in the good graces of the unit.

Response by SGT Frederick Chambers made Apr 6 at 2018 3:42 PM

SGT Frederick Chambers — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 15:42:15 -0400

No, you cannot be forced to buy a unit shirt. But, you may find your name at the top of the list for the undesirable details that come up. Although after your time in the Army up and you run across an old unit shirt it just may bring back some “good” memories or not.

Response by PFC Elijah Rose made Jul 8 at 2018 11:18 AM

PFC Elijah Rose — Sun, 08 Jul 2018 11:18:50 -0400

No, but it is often part of something the unit does together. I remember back at basic they gave us the impression that it was required for the company fun run so a good number of people admitted later that they bought it because they thought they had to.

Response by SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez made Aug 3 at 2018 10:05 PM

SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 22:05:37 -0400

I’ve never heard or been on any unit that made Soldiers buy unit t-shirts. But if the leadership of X unit is making Soldiers buy them, then there are some issues in the unit. Soldiers should be proud of their unit they’re assigned to so, why not? That’s just me.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2019 10:56 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:56:27 -0400

I never bought a unit anything. If the unit wanted me to have it, I would get it issued.

Response by SGT(P) Landon Mintz made Oct 3 at 2019 7:57 PM

SGT(P) Landon Mintz — Thu, 03 Oct 2019 19:57:59 -0400

No but you get a clothing allowance once a year you more than likely spend elsewhere. So is it really forcing you? Cheer up drink the kool aid and strike it up on your “ what I will do better as a leader list”.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2019 8:13 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 20:13:13 -0400

Not legally, but they can very well make it tough on people who don't...its usually better to either go with the flow or fly under the radar