Can you be counseled and chaptered out the army for not wearing prescription glasses? In and outside of uniform?

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Jun 2024 17:24:47 -0400

My team leader and platoon leader have instructed me to wear my glasses at all times, whether in uniform or out of uniform. We're currently on rotation in Europe, and two weeks ago my platoon leader saw me without my glasses while on shift and told his going to chapter me out of the army. My team leader also mentioned that I would be barred and face article 15. I'm feeling very stressed and believe I may be getting targeted. Is there a regulation or something that can help me.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2024 6:04 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Jun 2024 18:04:00 -0400

PFC Private RallyPoint Member Why are you not wearing your prescription glasses?

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jun 16 at 2024 6:23 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Sun, 16 Jun 2024 18:23:12 -0400

Wear your glasses. There isn't a regulation to:
1. Assist/Nada/None to not wear your glasses.
2. Help you when you fail to obey a lawful order to wear your glasses (off duty or on).
3. Make you sexier by using your own money to buy and wear cool, clear aviation frame glasses that the girls all love. (Hint, Hint.)
4. Require you to request an Article 16 General Courts Marshall (its your choice - talk to JAG first) instead of signing an Article 15, non-judicial punishment.
.
All that being said - and remember that I have no filter - I feel you've left something out of your post, so here's my request for clarification.
.
HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU BEEN JACKED-UP that they are using your not wearing your seeing-eye glasses as a reason to chapter you out of the Army?
.
Ever consider they think you just, and I mean this, just think if you wore your glasses you could do your job better and be a real asset to the platoon instead of a No-see-um Indian?

Response by Maj John Bell made Jun 16 at 2024 6:51 PM

Maj John Bell — Sun, 16 Jun 2024 18:51:17 -0400

What are you not telling us?

Response by COL Randall C. made Jun 16 at 2024 7:01 PM

COL Randall C. — Sun, 16 Jun 2024 19:01:35 -0400

Yes, the situation you described (having received a lawful order from your platoon leader to wear your glasses at all times) could lead to a punitive discharge from the Army. However, there are a LOT of steps between being told to do something and that leading to an involuntary discharge. It is much more likely that continued refusal to obey his order would lead to an Article 15 first.

A couple of elements in your question that should be addressed.

### Can you be ordered to wear your prescription glasses by your platoon leader? Yes .. No .. it depends.

According to the 2024 Manual for Courts-Martial*, a lawful order is one that is not contrary to law, regulations, or a service member's rights and must relate to military duty, which includes all activities reasonably necessary to accomplish a military mission, or safeguard or promote the morale, discipline, and usefulness of members of a command and directly connected with the maintenance of good order in the service.

There are a plethora of situations where such an order would 'check all the blocks' and be given - is your vision such that it impacts on your ability to perform any aspect of your duties if you're not wearing your glasses? Were you involved in an unsafe situation because you weren't able to clearly discern something? Were you not able to perform your duties at some time because "I forgot my glasses"? Is there something specific about your rotation in Europe that makes the situation much different than "home in CONUS"?

The list is endless in making up hypothetical situations where an order given by your platoon leader is a lawful order. However, the other truism in the military regarding orders issued by someone who has the authority to do so - All orders are presumed to be lawful if given by such authority unless proven otherwise.

In other words, if your platoon leader gave you a verbal or written order to do something, which you didn't do, could you get in trouble for it? Yes (Article 90 of the Uniformed Code of Military Justice - Willfully Disobeying a Superior Commissioned Officer).

### Can your Platoon Leader give you an Article 15. No, they don't have the authority. They could recommend that you recieve one (for an Article 90 violation), but it would be up to the Company Commander (or O-3 that has command authority over you) to make the decision if you would receive one or not.

### Can your Platoon Leader "chapter you out of the Army". Again, no, they don't have the authority to do so. To be involuntarily separated, you would have to go the administrative route (AR 635-200*) or the judicial route. In both cases, the one that has the authority to actually separate you is likely your Battalion Commander (or O-5 that has command authority over you) if not higher (depends on what you would be "chaptered out" for).

In the case of the administrative route, they don't throw people out of the Army "for not wearing their prescription lenses when told to do so". They will throw a Soldier out for a pattern of misconduct though.

Now, having said all that, is there a reason you aren't following your Platoon Leader's orders to wear your glasses? You may feel that the order is unfair or intrusive. You could object to the order because it's a chicken**** order and you feel you're being targeted. You could even feel that your Platoon Leaders is a dip**** who's head is so far up their *** that they can see what they ate for breakfast this morning.

YOU may think it has nothing to do with your military duties. Your battle-buddy may think it has nothing to do with your military duties. The free legal advice you get from social media may indicate that it has nothing to do with your military duties.

None of that matters unless it overridden by a superior authority to the one that issued it (i.e., Company Commander) or it is determined that it is not a lawful order by a military judge. As the MCM states, "An order requiring the performance of a military duty or act may be inferred to be lawful, and it is disobeyed at the peril of the subordinate."

Is there any reason you aren't wearing the glasses that you were ordered to wear? Do they cause some sort of medical issue (cause headaches because they are the wrong prescription? cause soreness on your temples because they are ill-fitting? etc.) Do they "cramp your style" because they are Army-issued BCGs and have the fashion appeal of a day-glow orange checkered suit (which, by the way, isn't an excuse to ignore the order)? Was it just a brain-cramp and you forgot?

The bottom line is if you have a legitimate reason for not following the order, then discuss it with your Platoon Leader. If you don't, then wear the damn glasses!
-----------------------
* 2024 Edition MCM - https://jsc.defense.gov/Portals/99/2024%20MCM%20files/MCM%20(2024%20ed)%20(2024_01_02)%20(adjusted%20bookmarks).pdf
* AR 635-200 (Active Duty Enlisted Administrative Separations) - https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN40058-AR_635-200-001-WEB-3.pdf

404 - File or directory not found.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2024 10:33 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jun 2024 10:33:39 -0400

Now, this old coffee consuming, allergic to dumb, crusty ass SNCO has a feeling that there is a reason as to why you were ordered to wear your prescription glasses and that we here on RP are only getting half the story.

For example. if you need your glasses to operate vehicles (civilian and/or military), to qualify with your assigned weapon, to properly see while wearing a mask....

If your glasses are needed to perform any of the above listed tasks....and many more tasks that I don't have the time to list...and you were ordered to wear said glasses, then you were in fact willfully disobeying an order from a Commissioned Officer.

Can you be counselled? Yes. Can you face Article 15 or Courts Martial? Yes, depending. Your Platoon Leader, Platoon Sergeant and Squad/Team Leader may only recommend UCMJ actions. What you face will be entirely up to your Commander. The same goes for Bar to Re-enlist/Continued.

Now, if you were directly ordered by your PL to wear your glasses, and you failed to do so, then you are NOT being targeted.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 17 at 2024 11:27 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Mon, 17 Jun 2024 23:27:24 -0400

There has to be more to it than you are telling. Is there a backstory to this? Are you legally blind or did you suffer an injury due to lack of glasses? Did you file a complaint because you needed glasses did not feel that the unit was helping you get them fast enough? Then after you get them you still don't fear them so the PL is like "He raised hell because he needed glasses and made us look like shit, so now he has them I am going to make sure he wears them."?
Ther has to be something else here.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 18 at 2024 8:55 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Tue, 18 Jun 2024 08:55:14 -0400

PFC Private RallyPoint Member You have not provided enough information for anyone to assist you...Message me your Platoon Leader's name and phone number, and I'll have a polite, professional discussion with the PL, and then comeback to this thread and provide the best assistance to you I can.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 24 at 2024 4:11 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Mon, 24 Jun 2024 16:11:29 -0400

I'm hoping the Army issued you prescription glasses so you could see better. There's a safety factor here also. If you don't see well, then you can do all kinds of stupid stuff and damage equipment (yours or the Government's) or your body on duty or off duty. If the glasses don't fit well or don't correct your vision adequately, then make an appointment to see the vision clinic and get it right.

Use some common sense and wear the glasses, see better, and do your job better. Be thankful you have leaders who give a flip about you and quit complaining.

Response by CW3 Charles Morris made Jul 8 at 2024 1:40 PM

CW3 Charles Morris — Mon, 08 Jul 2024 13:40:20 -0400

Boy, this brought back memories of my Warrant Officer Course (WOC). I bought AAFEES prescription wire glasses with a pink tint because I worked on computers under harsh fluorescent lights. Without the pink tint, it was like someone sandpapering my eyes. My TAC officer took an immediate shine to me, demanding I get Army anti-baby glasses. Rather than be subjected to a strenuous physical regime (i.e.., puss-ups and sit-ups until muscle failure), I cheerfully acquiesced to his inane demands. Throughout WOC, I then carried a slip from the optical shop showing I had ordered new glasses, which, fortuitously, never arrived while I was at Mother Rucker.