Can you be forced to attend BLC with 2 months until ETS?

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 23:55:44 -0500

I have 65 days left until I ETS, I am being told by my 1sg that it is mandatory that I have to go to BLC from (brigade sgm). I was forced to put in a packet at 20:00 at night. Is this allowed? I want to focus on transitioning out of the army. Can they do this? I have never receiving a negative counseling before or any UCMJ clean record

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Mar 2 at 2019 12:00 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 00:00:14 -0500

I see it as your 1SG giving you a lawful order. Now what's dumb is that you'll be taking a slot away from someone that actually wants to go.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2019 12:00 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 00:00:37 -0500

Unless the reg changed, yes they can. You only needed 30 days left when I went through in 2006.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2019 12:10 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 00:10:02 -0500

Do it, put it on your resume as leadership training, it’s the main reason they changed it to “basic leader course” instead of “warrior leader course” heck, they could be trying to hook you up

Response by SGT Rodrigo Contreras made Mar 2 at 2019 12:10 AM

SGT Rodrigo Contreras — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 00:10:06 -0500

A question.... are you planning on joining the Reserves or National Guard after ETS from AD?

If so, knock out BLC and have it in hand when you arrive to your new unit.

Can they make you go? Yes. Can you make it advantageous to you? Also Yes.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2019 12:13 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 00:13:26 -0500

You don't get 2 months to clear.
Your rank suggests you've been successful, and there is no need to blow it now.
You may not be planning on the Guard or Reserve, but you'll have this out of the way without interfering with your post active duty plans.
I suppose it will transfer to a few of semester hours of credit if college is in your plans.
If your plans fall through, or for whatever reason you decide to enter active duty again, you'll have it knocked out already, and, the real plus, you won't need a waiver for an RE Code of 3 in case they get really offended and implement a bar. Now, I didn't research whether they could, but it is still worth mentioning. If I'm mistaken, someone will correct it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2019 12:40 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 00:40:14 -0500

If I had a button for every person who was getting out with no intention of future military service, but ended up joining the reserves or active duty, I would be a fancy tailor now.
I seriously doubt you have something else more important going on that time, but if it's really important to you, you can just cite AR 614-200 and the HRC web page. The SRR for any NCOES is 6 months from graduation.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2019 8:11 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 08:11:13 -0500

I don't know why they'd spend money sending you there if you are about to ETS, but yes, they can make you go.
This is probably not the hill you want to die on, being short. And if you change your mind and stay in, or go over to the Guard or USAR, you'll be glad you went.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 2 at 2019 8:30 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 08:30:34 -0500

CPL Private RallyPoint Member Bottom line up front
YES, they can. It's simply going to be your place of duty. Be there or be prepared to accept the consequences.
The rest of my answer
There is an old saying, "Just because you can do something does not mean you should"
Which may or many not apply, depending on their personal reasoning for insisting you attend the basic leadership course available to you for free .

Perhaps they are convinced you are a great Soldier and they wish to retain you, they don't think they can, but want to make sure you have every opportunity open to you should you change your mind. Should you go into the guards or reserves, or, just because it is a leadership school and you may learn something or something about yourself that you can use after you get out.
In other words, you may not agree, and SM often do not when we do things FOR them they feel are TOO them.. But they may be insisting because they think its best for YOU.

Or, its a poorly worded directive from "higher"
"Everyone eligible will attend , zero excuses"
And those in subordinate units are taking it literally, and or there is no working relationship currently for subordinates to ask the author of the directive for clarification or exception.
Don't read that as its the Sergeants Major fault, It may be, it may also be his(hers) hands are tied and an officer has made it so...and there is no working relationship currently for subordinates to ask the author of the directive for clarification or exception.
Or it could be the subordinate leaders fault..they do not possess the willingness or experience to see and understands yes orders and directives are meant to be executed, and most times without question, but never without clarification when needed.

2nd bottom line... Its only a few days and you might make a new friend/contact, might learn something. As a E4 your not going to get but a few days to clear anyway...so this will not interfere with that. And mandatory transition classes only take a few days as well.
If it were me? Id use it........ Id go speak to the 1SG..and ask his HELP. Something like "1SG, you really don't think I need to go to BLC do you? But you have no choice right?" OK thanks, I get it, than can I ask you for something? I'll go, I'll kick ass and give the unit a shot at having the Honor Grad..no promises but I'll put in the effort. After Im back.... can you help me with time to transition? (AND NOW COMES THE PART WHERE YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE YOUR HOMEWORK) 1SG when I get back on the XX MAR there is a class I need to take on XYZ , and on the XX MAR another YXZ course, and then in APR there are these 9 courses here (HAND HIM THE PLAN AND TIMELINE YOU MADE THAT SHOWS YOUR GOALS AND HOW YOUR GOING TO GET THERE) that would really help me get set for success after I get out... then I start clearing on or about the XX APR.... can you help me stay off the detail radar for those dates please? Help in getting me the time to do this right?"

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2019 8:35 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 08:35:49 -0500

Just go, you’re getting paid, and maybe you change your mind. You don’t need months to clear for ETS you need two weeks really. One week for ACAP or TAPS or whatever they call it now and one week to turn in and get signatures to clear post. Just go, suck it up and drive on. You’re an infantryman. Reserves is a possibility for you or guard and help you with future college endeavors and Tuition Assistance along with your GI bill.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2019 8:37 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 08:37:04 -0500

Why wouldn't you want to go? BLC is a low level management course you can put on your resume. People pay money for courses like that in the civilian side. It will help you in the long run.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2019 8:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 08:51:34 -0500

The answers is yes. Nothing in the order is unlawful only inconvenient for you but that's life alot with military life.

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Mar 2 at 2019 8:51 AM

SGT Jim Ramge, MBA — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 08:51:36 -0500

Dear Jonny... Please read said link, but beware of how you present to your chain of command! HRC states you need 6 months for any NCOES school accept for the SMA at Bliss, which is 2-yrs. A direct order is a direct order. Might confir with JAG to see what your legal options are as you are in a catch 22, damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Do t bitch about it, respectfully show them the regulation! Bitching about it could get you an article 15. However, by providing the information in a professional manner, you are preventing fraud, waste and abuse as there are other E4s in the BDE on their OOM list!
https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Time%20Remaining%20in%20Service%20Obligation%20for%20Military%20Schooling

HRC Homepage

Toll-Free: 1-888-ARMY-HRC (1-888-276-9472) DSN: 983-9500 AskHRC

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 2 at 2019 9:09 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 09:09:26 -0500

The more you have under your belt and on your resume when you get out will reflect heavy on potential hires. You want to be as competitive as you can, contrary to belief it is not easy to land good positions. It also keeps you competitive should you decide on Guard or Reserves. Thank you fo your service.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2019 10:00 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 10:00:40 -0500

We had a guy in my WLC in your same situation. What is more messed up about his was they could not get him a working computer account, he was told he could not graduate but they kept him at the school doing details and sitting in class as a non graduating student. He still did all the assignments on a guest account but because having a computer account was a check the box graduation requirement they would not let him.

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made Mar 2 at 2019 2:31 PM

SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 14:31:22 -0500

Write up a request, with a list of reasons why it is advantageous to USGov and Army that you do not attend and waste a slot for a career soldier. Please do not waste my tax money! If that fails, take that same request to the Inspector General's office and ask not to waste money sending you. IF you change your mind, you are hosed on being able to go, and that will hurt a future career. (But, like a famous Cpl said in my unit, "You signed the dotted line!!!"

Response by LTC Peter Hartman made Mar 3 at 2019 5:27 AM

LTC Peter Hartman — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 05:27:13 -0500

CPL Jonny Brakes: I would go if I were you. I went in my first enlistment although it was at around my 3rd year. Consider the reserves or the Guard. Especially if your state waives public college tuition for Guardsman. I was from Louisiana and they did. Several other states do as well. And more states cut a nice percentage off. That means the tuition assistance that you already get as a Soldier goes into your pocket. And you may stay in the Guard or return to active duty. Basically you are keeping your options open.

Response by SFC Patrick Machayo made Mar 3 at 2019 5:45 AM

SFC Patrick Machayo — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 05:45:14 -0500

You will never regret having a leadership certification when transitioning.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2019 7:45 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 07:45:04 -0500

I don't have the regulation answer, however I echo the previous comment about taking advantage of an opportunity that may not seem important now but can be a great benefit later. Having BLC complete will save a huge amount of time if you decide later to join the Guard or Reserve. If it absolutely doesn't cause you inconvenience or hardship now, I say do it.

Response by CPL Dale Ketron made Mar 3 at 2019 9:26 AM

CPL Dale Ketron — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 09:26:49 -0500

It can help you later down the road. But if you go with the attitude of not wanting to be there, I would say let someone else go.
Your 1SG is looking out for you whether you believe or not.

Response by CPL Dale Ketron made Mar 3 at 2019 9:28 AM

CPL Dale Ketron — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 09:28:42 -0500

Don't know what you got, till it's gone.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2019 10:33 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 10:33:09 -0500

The Army is literally the easiest job you will ever do! I left active duty after 8 years, no intentions of going into the guard but as time went on I began to miss the comrodery and friendships I built while in. Take advantage of the class and seriously reconsider your exit. I get it your tired of the B.S. I was to and it is the same on the outside.

Response by SPC William Weedman made Mar 3 at 2019 2:59 PM

SPC William Weedman — Sun, 03 Mar 2019 14:59:40 -0500

Take it. All I needed after I joined the NG 2 months ETS to get my E-5 and squad leader slot was what was called PLDC then. The unit jerked me around for 6 years, put in the squad leader and make up a new excuse for not sending me to school. When the CoC realized I was really going to ETS the NG they magically came up with a course...6 months after my ETS. No idea if any of the other soldiers stuck around to go, all “selected” were after our ETS dates.

Response by SFC Wayne Theilen made Mar 5 at 2019 11:12 AM

SFC Wayne Theilen — Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:12:19 -0500

What 1SG says goes.

Response by SFC Don Lawrence made Mar 5 at 2019 9:26 PM

SFC Don Lawrence — Tue, 05 Mar 2019 21:26:28 -0500

Read SFC Boyd’s comment the only accurate answer. Others are just spouting the party line. That is not good.

Response by SSG Steve Edwards made Mar 7 at 2019 9:28 AM

SSG Steve Edwards — Thu, 07 Mar 2019 09:28:02 -0500

Short answer: NO
But what is the cost/loss of going vs not going? Why are they making an issue? It seems a waste of resources to send you to school if you are certain to ETS shortly? (Perhaps you could make an issue under Art 108 UCMJ)

It may be that someone up the chain needs the bullet point “All E4 under my command attended BLC” (for example)

As a final point, you did take an oath that included the statement: “I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." Did you mean what you said?

I had a Soldier tell me on occasion, “Drill Sergeant, I’m sure you have heard the saying - ‘YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER, BUT YOU CANT MAKE HIM DRINK’

My response was “That’s very true Private - but I can run this ‘team of horses’ around in this hot Oklahoma sun; you’ll get thirsty!”
Metaphorically: it’s a question on motivation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2019 8:39 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Mar 2019 08:39:13 -0500

CPL, If I was in your boots, I would take every opportunity for free schools I could before I got out. BLC is not a hardship and future employers would like to see leadership training on your resume.
Just do it, and not just because your 1SG told you to go.
Your 1SG sees potential in you and possibly wants retain you.
And yes, they can make you, until 2359 to the day after you outprocess.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2019 12:29 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Mar 2019 12:29:23 -0500

CPL Brakes,
I concur with 1SG (Anonymous). You never had a negative action and you certainly don't want to start with so little time left in the Army. As he stated, it doesn't take two months to clear, and should plans change it would be much easier to move forward with it than without it. Good luck!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2019 6:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Mar 2019 18:27:06 -0500

Get to school, you didn't sign up for 3yrs 10 months. Anytime you can better yourself regardless of what it is. And it will look good on a resume.

Response by SGT Robert Martin made Mar 11 at 2019 8:30 AM

SGT Robert Martin — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 08:30:59 -0400

Why would you want to avoid BLC. Most of what you learned in the Army simply has little use in the world. The skills you learn in pldc ( yes I'm that old ) on the other hand are in great demand in the civilian work force. The Army is giving you a chance to learn skills that you will use the rest of your life. Trust me accept the orders with a smile the army has given you a gift.

Response by SP5 David Cox made Mar 13 at 2019 3:40 PM

SP5 David Cox — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 15:40:24 -0400

Something similar happened to me. I was short and had no intention of staying in, and my COC wanted me to go to PLDC. I resisted their "suggestions" to the point that my CSM made noises about making it an order. I did some research and found a regulation that basically said I could turn down the "opportunity" if I was within 6 months of ETS. I don't remember what reg it was, and this was in 1981, so things may have changed since then - so do your own research! If I hadn't already been so short or had any plans to stay in, it would have been a very bad move for me, as my stance on the issue seriously pissed of my CSM and his successor (who was already there waiting for the first one to retire). It would have been a career limiting move under other circumstances, so proceed cautiously!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2019 4:03 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:03:41 -0400

This exact same thing happened to my Soldier, same number of days, everything. He went, didn't apply himself a bit, passed, got out. Our 1SG was hoping it would light a fire under him and give him some motivation to stay in but it didn't. He got out and never did anything military related again. We both work for the TSA together and BLC hasn't impacted his life a bit.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2019 11:16 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Mar 2019 11:16:21 -0400

It’s 22 days and you will learn something. There’s even a class on SFL-TAP in the curriculum so it’s a perfect fit for ya.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2019 9:03 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 09:03:47 -0400

It is a LEADERSHIP course. Every little bit helps you out in the civilian world.

Response by SPC James Cooke made Mar 23 at 2019 2:44 PM

SPC James Cooke — Sat, 23 Mar 2019 14:44:11 -0400

I was forced to go to BLC with six months remaining (March-April 2018). Finished my SFL classes when I was on rotation in South Korea (October 2016-May 2017; did my classes from February-April 2017). I informed my leadership that I intended to put in for early separation to attend college that Fall. They did their best (from Company all the way to Brigade) to get me out of BLC. I even supplied my packet. It didn't change Division's mind. Division claimed once you're on the list of eligible Specialists, you're going (yet they had switches happen the night before). I graduated BLC. Early separation didn't happen because the packet didn't get approved in time (could not submit it between 1 June 2017 and 1 June 2018; the Chapter was on suspension). Ended up taking 34 days of transition leave. Separated in October 2018.

Response by MCPO Oslo Wilhunky made Mar 27 at 2019 11:12 AM

MCPO Oslo Wilhunky — Wed, 27 Mar 2019 11:12:27 -0400

Sounds like 1sg let something sit on his desk too long and was in a rush to cover his ass. Don't be a shitbird like him, take pride in yourself and follow orders right up until you walk or drive out of the gate. You'll be glad you did, honor is everything.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2019 2:36 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:36:03 -0400

I understood your frustration, but the simple answer is "Yes, it's allowed". However, as the SGT said below, it's a shame that you would be taking a slot away from a Soldier who will be staying in. What I would suggest is getting your first line / Platoon Sergeant to go with you to speak to the 1SG and suggesting a specific Soldier to take your place. Give your reasons as to why you think attending BLC, only to ETS would not benefit his unit, and present a solution to resolve the situation. At the end of the day, you're still a Soldier until you leave the gate with your DD-214, and are expected to do what you're told. A little bit of "free chicken" for you as you continue with your life, albeit as a Civilian or not, NEVER present a problem without a solution, and always do the leg work ahead of time to make your solution as simple and easy as possible. Good Luck!

Response by PO1 Chad Alcock made Apr 30 at 2019 1:29 PM

PO1 Chad Alcock — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:29:49 -0400

Of course it's allowed, no reason for it not to be. But looking at this from Employment Counselor stand point, if you do attend BLC, well that's just one more thing that can be added to a resume. Worded properly, that may be the deciding factor in whether they decide to contact you for an interview. One thing that the military excels at is putting people into leadership positions from a very early stage. This very rarely happens in the civilian world. People will go their whole careers never having been in such a position. I have a coworker that applied for the manager's position in my office, and the only reason he wasn't considered was lack of leadership experience. After him being the lead worker for a while, it was apparent that he is not a leader. Great guy, but not everyone can lead. Going through BLC is not going to hurt you. On a personal note, I came back to Fort Hood after going to Fort Irwin for a month and had 20 days left to clear, do transition classes, etc. They tried getting me to go to PLDC (as it was called at that time), but the start date was a month after I left on terminal leave.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2019 2:04 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 14:04:58 -0400

I would ask if there currently a service obligation for attending a school. If this would change your ETS date then you have a legitimate reason for requesting a reconsideration.

Again, a lawful order is a lawful order, so if there isn't any wiggle room, take what you can from it and add some tools to your toolbox.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2019 2:32 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 14:32:58 -0400

Play the game.

Response by SPC Adrian LaPene made May 6 at 2019 6:51 PM

SPC Adrian LaPene — Mon, 06 May 2019 18:51:40 -0400

It’s in your best interest to go. I speak from experience. I wish I had gone before I got out. Not only that, it will keep you out of trouble. ETS coming up and you start to go civilian before you should. Most important, what you learn will help you more than realize when you do get out

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2019 4:06 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 May 2019 04:06:38 -0400

May as well do it, I don’t know how much it’s changed since I went, but it’ll teach you a few things that will transfer out to the civilian world. Plus, it will give you extra credits towards college on your Joint Service Transcript.

Response by SFC Robert Wagner made Jun 2 at 2019 2:06 PM

SFC Robert Wagner — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 14:06:33 -0400

Should not be mandatory if ETSing ( leaving the military ) .

Response by MSgt Robert Brady made Jun 4 at 2019 7:39 PM

MSgt Robert Brady — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 19:39:25 -0400

Go ahead and do it. Save the agro of upsetting some lifer who might make your life hell. Swallow your pride, go through the course and take your discharge in 65 days. To me it is a waste of a slot that could be used by someone who is going to stay in. Why waste it on someone who is leaving the military? Just my opinion.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2019 10:21 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 22:21:52 -0400

You are only allow to attend NCOES when you have a Year left in your contract after completing NCOES. This is why I had to extend my contract.

Response by SFC Robert Wagner made Jul 23 at 2019 11:24 PM

SFC Robert Wagner — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 23:24:16 -0400

Back in the day, No cause if you take the school you have to give back to the military
Example 1st Sgt school take it ,,you owe three years, They were short on their qutoa and wanted it filled, they would have an other problem if you got your Congressman involed or go to IG its been almost 30 years that I was in fight them if you don't want the school

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2021 5:15 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 17:15:00 -0500

Lol Jonny I’ll be honest with you and KEEP IT REAL you. You a smart ass and go to the school and intentionally fail it because you don’t give a damn and want to be a dirtbag. Or you can just suck it up and go knock the class out. if I had your cell I promise you I’d motivate you to complete the school. I get on hire ups the same way with Tac.