Posted on Feb 21, 2019
Can you use a counseling statement to force a soldier to do something, even if there is no previous issue, under the threat of punishment?
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So I just transferred into a new unit. I have been in an instructor unit for the past couple of years and wanted to get back into a line unit. I have noticed that they seem to really like to us the 4856 a lot to inform people on how things are doneand some of them seem kinda wonky. The most recent one that has brought me here is that our PSG gave us one that stated that is was to instruct us on how we would do our NCOERs and that we had to add certain individuals as delegates to include our OPs NCO and Supply sergeant and if we didn’t complete the task with in so many days that we would be negatively counseled for not complying. I’m not sure this is how they are supposed to be used and I don’t think you can use these forms to make soldiers do things. As far as I understand developmental counselings are used when you have an issue or something doesn’t get done and you need to address it come up with a plan to fix it and then report if it was fixed. Is this just the way we do things now or am I right in thinking this is odd. My last unit we just told people hey this needs to get done we didn’t counsel them every time we needed them to do something. We also didn’t add people to our rating chain that had nothing to do with us.
Posted 6 y ago
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At your last unit when you told people what needed to be done it sounds like it got done.
At your current unit, it sounds like there is a history of TPUs not doing what they are told so the fix was to put everything in writing.
Granted, something as simple as directing everyone to make the AGRs delegates in EES is something that could be in a command policy posted, briefed and distributed to the unit and that would also suffice as a written, direct order that would have consequences if not followed, but it's also possible that method was tried and still found ineffective in the unit.
Putting every order in writing in counseling statements to all may seem like a last ditch effort, but the real last ditch effort would be to put the by-name/by-task on the published training schedule, then coding Soldiers as U (unsatisfactory performance) if they failed to complete that task during drill, as the training schedule is also a direct order from the commander, and failing or refusing to complete a task would literally qualify as unsatisfactory, resulting in no drill pay.
Getting back to EES, delegates are not "part of the rating chain", delegates are simply used to help with corrections on NCOERs, and a delegate for the senior rater can submit the NCOER when it is complete.
In the Guard and Reserves, it is not uncommon for NCOERs to go untouched by the rating chain and rated Soldier between drills, despite the fact that EES is available on the internet anywhere, not just the unit. Adding the AGRs as delegates means that the unit does not have to wait another 30 days to address a minor correction, or to submit if everything is already good to go.
At your current unit, it sounds like there is a history of TPUs not doing what they are told so the fix was to put everything in writing.
Granted, something as simple as directing everyone to make the AGRs delegates in EES is something that could be in a command policy posted, briefed and distributed to the unit and that would also suffice as a written, direct order that would have consequences if not followed, but it's also possible that method was tried and still found ineffective in the unit.
Putting every order in writing in counseling statements to all may seem like a last ditch effort, but the real last ditch effort would be to put the by-name/by-task on the published training schedule, then coding Soldiers as U (unsatisfactory performance) if they failed to complete that task during drill, as the training schedule is also a direct order from the commander, and failing or refusing to complete a task would literally qualify as unsatisfactory, resulting in no drill pay.
Getting back to EES, delegates are not "part of the rating chain", delegates are simply used to help with corrections on NCOERs, and a delegate for the senior rater can submit the NCOER when it is complete.
In the Guard and Reserves, it is not uncommon for NCOERs to go untouched by the rating chain and rated Soldier between drills, despite the fact that EES is available on the internet anywhere, not just the unit. Adding the AGRs as delegates means that the unit does not have to wait another 30 days to address a minor correction, or to submit if everything is already good to go.
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First, it sounds like your unit is using the counseling statement to ensure that orders are clearly stated and understood. That only works if they are clearly written. Second: add certain individuals as "delegates." What are you delegating to them? Then your last sentence states that you are "adding people to your rating chain that had nothing to do with us." Are these the "delegates?" Third, as to developmental counselings: positive counseling serves as valuable feedback. "Ya done good, kid. Sign this."
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